Conference turris::womannotes-v1

>  If not, go see ["Aliens"] with your SO.  What a powerful treatment of women!

in what sense?  I understood that it was "Rambo" recast with Sigourney
Weaver as Stallone.  I suppose that that's power, but is it good?

					-- hs

    There is a very long discussion of Aliens in MTV::SF.
    

     
     re .0:
     
     > go see it with your SO.
     
     What about those who don't have an "SO", or those who might enjoy
     going to a movie by themselves?  Should such people avoid the movie?
     Should they feel bad because everyone is expected to have an "SO"?
     
     The statement sounds mateist to me.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    Hmmmm...I haven't seen Rambo so I can't comment on the fairness
    of the comparison.
    
    I found it "powerful" in the sense that although there were
    morality-play aspects of the script, they did not include female
    characters having to be bailed out by male characters.  The only
    "incompetent" characters were male (I was a bit put off by the
    cartoonish treatment in the one case), all three of the female roles
    that were more than bit parts showed tough, caring people doing
    their best:  the ex-ship's commander (Weaver); the career marine;
    and the little girl survivor.  Even one of the bit parts (the calm,
    matter-of-fact shuttle commander) was well done.
    
    					=maggie

    re .3 Methinks you picketh the nits overly much
    

    I went to see ALIENS last night by a husband who is deeply in lust
    for Sigourney Weaver and would travel lightyears to see her in her
    underwear (as I would, which even if you have no tendencies towards
    sexual swings, her underwear scenes are pretty damn attractive)
    and who also adores the movies because she's a "not-shit, powerful,
    doesn't-take-nothin'-from-nobody woman".... 
    
    I've always been impressed by this movie since the original first
    came out because it's an opportunity to point my niece at the screen
    and say "Look what girls can do!"...  I guess I look at it more
    that I'm tired of wimpering, crying steroetypes where you feel
    embarassed that someone is acting that way....  Hell, even *I* would
    feel secure on that ship knowing Sigourney Weaver was there!!!
    
    I disagree with the Rambo interpretation only because the violence
    in the movie was not gratuitious and her first impulse was to run
    like Hell!!!!
    
    My big chuckle was over the women marines.... butch haircuts, tatoos,
    and Bronx accents.... *BUT* those who saw the flick know that the
    WOMEN had the point going into the dangerous parts of the ship...
    
    Go ahead, kill me for it... I'm in love with a movie.....  It was
    such a wonderous evening of escape and I was screaming in horror,
    hiding in my husband's shirt, and clapping and yelling with delight
    for the entire 2 1/2 hours...
    
    And it took me 2 hours to unwind before I got the nerve to go to
    bed.....
    
    bugsy

    Oops! One more bleat...
    
    The movie deals very nicely with the fact that not everyone on the
    ship is treating Ripley like she got treated on the Nostromo....
    as a matter of fact, there are actually men on board (not many of
    them I'll grant you) who actually *LIKE* women like Ripley...
    
    Nice change, eh?
    
    bugs

        I haven't seen it yet, but I liked the original a lot because
        first of all it was a return to heroic fiction, and I was
        grossly tired of anti-heroic films, anbd secondly because the
        hero was a woman.
        
        Ripley was truly heroic. She was in outrageous danger and
        tremendously affraid (too many so-called heroes aren't affraid
        which is just stupidity or arrogance, not bravery), yet she
        never gave up, she kept on bouncing back. She was also very
        appealing both as a person (being truly likable), and as a
        member of the opposite sex (being sufficiently attractive to
        warrant serious lust). So often strong women are presented a
        "butch" or a little off their nut, or or man-hating, or
        masculine or something. 
        
        The situation was not terribly realistic, but Ripley and her
        heroism were. That's my favorite type of fanatasy fiction.
        
        JimB.

    I agree you should go see this movie. My general reaction (excluding
    the tension/excitement) was "What a great woman!". I thought all
    the women's roles were well thought out and showed a very
    matter-of-fact, get-the-job-done attitude. These women were tough,
    but not macho copy-cats. They were also shown as caring people who
    could face their own fear to finish the job they were on.
    
    Also, for those who think they don't want to see  horror movie,
    this is NOT one. As the first movie was a "haunted house" movie,
    this one is basically a war movie. The tension is incredible, but
    there were no "jump out from behind the door, gotcha" scenes. Tons
    of excitement.
    
    Tamzen

    <--(.6)
    My big chuckle was over the women marines.... butch haircuts, tatoos,
    and Bronx accents.... *BUT* those who saw the flick know that the
    WOMEN had the point going into the dangerous parts of the ship...
    ====================================================================
    
    Yah, I was thinking that here (in the case of Vasquez) you have a woman
    who fits --almost to the point of caricature-- the common stereotype of
    "dyke" with her short hair, tatoos, and tough swagger. Yet she is also
    portayed as a consummate professional marine, accepting her role and
    her fate in a way that "reflects the best Traditions of the Corps".
    Very moving.
    
    					=maggie

        I loved the early scene on the transport, where Vasquez was
        doing her chinups, and some guy joked "Hey Vasquez, has anyone
        every mistaken you for a man?" and she replied calmly "No, has
        anyone ever mistaken *you* for a man?"
        
        She was rather amazing... and yes, she was a little Rambo-esque:
        in love with weapons and shooting them, always out in the
        lead looking for trouble.  Regardless of what I might think
        of that sort of character, it was a joy to see a *woman*
        playing the role for a change.
        
        Ripley wasn't the slightest bit Rambo-esque.  Vasquez would have
        been background if she'd been a man: just another blustery grunt
        marine. The really fantastic thing about Ripley is that the role
        would have been equally effective and impressive if played by a
        man. She was simply a courageous *person* in a bad situation. 
        Not only no sexual stereotypes, but no forced sexual
        *anti-stereotypes*.   Newt was handled fantastically, also:
        they allowed her to be (realistically) terrified out of her
        gourd and still come across as a tough and courageous survivor.
        
        For both characters, I think they did a virtually unique
        job of avoiding the Hollywood myth that a character is either
        helpless and waiting for rescue... or a Rambo bothered by
        nothing and concerned with nothing more than blowing away
        the bad guys.
        
        As for seeing the movie with an SO... well, that depends
        on the constitution of your SO.  My wife (correctly, as it
        turned out) anticipated a bit too much intensity for her
        taste.  I'm glad I went with a couple of friends from work,
        though... two of us stood in the parking lot and talked for
        about 20 minutes before we felt up to driving.  I'm not usually
        much into suspense movies...
        
        	/dave

  Actually the funny thing is with all the Rambo-ish comparisons.
  The matter of fact is Aliens was written by the same man who
  wrote Rambo. And he wrote the screenplay for Aliens FIRST. So
  the Rambo character came second. So actually Rambo is a copy
  of "Rambolina"..
  
  brian

    I saw Aliens, with my SO as it turned out, and it was a good thing
    I was with someone who has a pretty high tolerance for me in a fearful
    and dysfunctional state.
    
    I generally don't see horror movies of any kind because the scenes
    stay with me for months.  They haunt both waking and sleeping hours,
    and make me want to engage in a great deal of escapist behavior. 
    In this case, though, some friends had told me it wasn't very scary,
    and I thought it might be enjoyable.  I wanted to stay and see how
    it turned out, but I kept looking around thinking "the other people
    here are enjoying this level of stress and tension?".
                                                         
    My SO merely looked amused throughout...
    
    The powerful women in the film were definitely a redeeming feature.
    I wondered what it would have been like to have seen a character
    like Ripley when I was a pre-adolescent.  I had very little experience
    of compassionate and independent women making cool and competent
    decisions under great pressure.  (When I was twelve the going heroine
    was Julie Andrews in Mary Poppins and The Sound of Music.  Not quite
    the same...)
    
    I also have sat through many movies and wondered how all the characters
    could have seemed so calm in suspenseful situations.  In this film
    characters (usually men) often typified our worst fears of how we
    might react in a crisis by falling apart or overreacting or giving
    up temporarily.  I appreciated seeing that for a change.
                                                            
    The girl who played Newt did a fine job of acting.  She was both
    a very realistic child and a heroine at the same time.
    
    holly

    I read all the notes on Aliens in SF and had no desire to see
    the movie> After reading this discussion I can't wait to see it.
    Maybe woman's notes really hit on the more important issues?
    Bonnie

    re .14:
    
    depends on what you consider "important".
    
    sm

    re .15
    
    yup

    Just an aside to the comment that the same people who wrote Rambo
    also wrote ALIEN and ALIENS. That is true, however Sylvester Stallone
    rewrote the entire screenplay to suit his own tastes, which is why
    the films are so very different. Rambo kills innumerous people and
    shows no fear. Ripley was scared to death, but her love for Newt
    pushed her to do things she would otherwise never have done. Remember,
    Rambo went out looking for trouble and was trained to handle, Ripley
    got thrown into the middle of a messy situation and had to use whatever
    she knew to get herself and those with her out of it. There's
    definitely a big difference.
    
    /regina

        .17:  mmm hmmm.  Like I said (.11?) if there's a "Rambo" in
        ALIENS, it's Vasquez, not Ripley.  Ripley was a very *human*
        character.  Rambo (and to some extent Vasquez) is strictly comic
        book. 
        
        	/dave

    re RAMBO:
    
    I had the impression that Vasquez (the character, not the actor)
    was parody'ing (parodizing?) Rambo.  I didn't think she was a 
    "comic-book" character. She was poking fun at herself and the
    stereotype of the "macho" Marine.
    
    sm
    
    p.s. actor - one who performs theatrically [genderless]. 

        .19: That's not the impression I got from the character...
        but then, I think your interpretation is a lot more fun:
        I'm not going to complain!
        
        	/dave
        
        p.s., I agree about "actor" (and so does the dictionary).
        I've always used it generically and avoided "actress"...
        until relatively recently I used to get "corrected".  Things
        seem to have changed in more recent years, though!