Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Just to be clear, I am asking for womens comments in this forum.

I guess, in just a random comment, it would depend on how much your
marriage means to you.... 

Would you be willing to trash your life for that opportunity that may
(or may not) become an acceptable alternative?  I'm not denegrating
the woman or her proposal, because she might be looking for something
stable and supportive as well, and ancticipating that you're her
way to get that... and love you madly as well.

If it happened to me, no... I wouldn't be willing to even consider it.

If it happened to my husband, I trust him to do the same.... because
I haven't heard otherwise....

But on the side of the woman, if I were doing the proposing, I'd
fight like Hell to make him say "yes" and then make him forget his
wife!!!

(Shame on me, and me a married woman !!!! I can't help it.  I'm a
spoiled brat and I usually get what I go after!)

Karen

    I agree pretty much with .2.  It all depends on the situation. 
    If I were the man in this instance, if my marriage included monogomy
    as a commitment, and I *knew* I could not tolerate having my wife
    cheat on *me*, and I didn't want to wreck my marriage because I
    was very happy, then I would NOT go for it.  Why wreck the possibility
    of a happy entire life with one person, just for a chance in the
    sack with another?
    
    However, if I were the woman in love with the married man, I'd go
    for it!  I wouldn't consider it to be my problem if *he* didn't
    place a high enough value on his marriage to refuse me!
    
    Lorna
    

    It depends on what is wanted from the "tabu" relationship.  My 
    goals as an unmarried woman were to find someone to form a stable
    (i.e. long-term) mutually-trusting relationship, so I've never been
    able to figure out what motivates people who go after folks who
    are already in some form of relationship.  My observations lead
    me to believe that someone who would put a night in the sack ahead
    of the trust of a current mate is probably not the sort of person
    I'd want to be involved in.  Basically, "if he'd screw around with
    me, he'd probably do it again with someone else."  
    
         (Please note that the masculine pronoun is used because 
         I'm a heterosexual female.  The same reasoning would 
         probably hold for all other combinations.)

    It may be a bit old-fashioned, but I don't see what the point of
    a "single night of bliss" would be.  My experience is that sex is
    much better when both folks know each other well enough to be 
    concerned for each other's needs and desires, and to be aware of
    what is needed to fulfill them.
    
    Joanne

    
    Re .4, I agree with much you say EXCEPT for the part about,
    "If he/she would screw around with me he/she would probably
    do it with someone else".  That is NOT always true.  Just
    because a person cheats in one relationship does not mean they
    will in another.  Relationships are very different and the
    same motivation may not be there.  
    
    Lorna
    

    Finding other people attractive is a part of life. . . regardless
    of one's marital status.  That being the case, it's CRITICAL that
    you get married ONLY because you really want to spend your life
    with a particular person.  Otherwise, why get married?  You can
    date forever if you so choose and be free for those instances of
    temptation.  
    
    I think you should EXPECT to be attracted to many different people
    throughout life.  That way you won't feel overwhelmed when it
    inevitably happens.  But, you should also put things in perspective
    before it happens.  Recognize what is of value to you, how much
    work it took for you to create and maintain that bit of happiness, 
    and what the real cost would be to you if you one day lost it.  
        
    Often, you find someone especially attractive when you are taking
    your own loved ones for granted.  How attractive might your own
    wife seem to a stranger when she's looking and feeling her best?
    What kind of a woman are you forgetting about while longing for
    someone new?
    
    Enjoy your new friend, appreciate her beauty, and possibly even love
    her from afar.  But (my own feeling is) unless you are willing to
    give up all you've worked so hard to attain, don't betray your wedded
    love.  That, after all, is the very foundation of marriage.   
                                                              
    And for those women who would so readily fight for their rights
    to a married man:  Why??  That is so ultimately WRONG.  All you
    end up gaining is a man who can be compromised.  And you tear a
    family apart at the seams in the process.  My words may sound strong,
    but the tragedy you work so hard to create is too.  
                                       
                            With good intent,        
                                -Lynn-

    
    Re .6, Lynn, I agree with most of what you say, too, but I don't
    believe that a person can really steal another person away from
    somebody else.  I think that a person who appears to have left his
    or her spouse for another person was probably very unhappy in their
    marriage to begin with, and this person who supposedly lures them
    away is just the final push needed for the unhappy person to leave.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Ahem. With Wendy by my rocking chair, I'd better say, for the record:
    
                    ** THIS NOTE ISN'T ABOUT ME, FOLKS **

    I have a friend who seeks advice.

	Not too long ago my sweetie came to me and said,"X is pursuing
	me.  I've said, 'No' so far, but I'm increasingly attracted to
	the idea of a fling.  Would you be upset with me if that
	happened?"  I thought it over (really!) and concluded that
	such a situation would be intolerable to me - and said so.
	Well, to make a long story short, I broke up with my sweetie
	who is now seeing X.  What a drag.
	
	BUT, I really appreciate and admire the honesty with which
	the whole thing was handled by my ex.  I didn't have to hear 
	about it after the fact; I didn't have to hear about it from 
	someone else.  The door is still open for us to be friends
	once I recover from my present hurt and anger.
	
	So my advice is - Be honest with all concerned.  Lying to
	someone is the ultimate put-down.  
	
	Dale

I would tell your friend that there are two sides to this.  One is
exhilarating, the other pretty sordid. This woman is new and exciting.
She doesn't know any of your weaknesses or failings.  She obviously thinks
you're great.  She probably feels genuine affection for you and you for her.
Aw, what the hell. 

You go through with it.  Well, now you start having to think of excuses to
give your wife for why you're late coming home.  What will you tell her
when you want to disappear for a few hours on Saturday?  You'll have to lie.
You'll become good at lying and covering your tracks.  She'll detect the 
change in your attitude toward her.  She won't be able to put her finger on
it if you are a good liar, but she'll know that something is wrong. What does
she look like when thinks she's done something wrong, but doesn't know what?
You won't like what you see.

Where will you go with your new love?  You can't be seen.  You'll have to
sneak around and wonder when you get home if someone has seen you out and
about and telephoned your wife.  What about holidays?  Whom will you spend
them with?  Probably your wife.  What will your new love think of that?
She'll start being hurt that you won't make a commitment to her.
Are you willing to?  You'll eventually have to make a decision.  Are you
really unhappy with your present marriage? If you are, be prepared to end it.
If you are not, you'll have to end the affair.  Everyone is going to get hurt.
You will be hurt most.  You will not like yourself because you will do things
you never thought yourself capable of doing and because you will, in the end
hurt two other people.  

I am not in a position to judge this situation, but you should think about
its potentially ugly side.

Eileen B. 

I wrote a long convoluted response to this, but I'm going to try something
(relatively) short instead: It's one thing to want something, and pursue it,
but when you're dealing with people (or people's affections), I think it's
important to know when to stop.  

For one thing, "stealing" someone away is very risky -- you can't possibly
spend the time required to get to know each other (because of the original
relationship), so how can you really know what you're getting into?  And
even if you think that someone who's cheated once wouldn't necessarily do it
again, how can you tell? There's certainly not much to base that decision
on.

This third person seems to have little respect for the other person in the
existing relationship; that's not a good sign. Would you want a relationship
with someone who didn't value someone else whom you loved? (Granted, it
might not be "little respect", but a case of being greedy; that's no
bargain, either.)

Aside from the basic dishonesty involved (see the base note -- "And you
are attracted to her, against your beliefs in your current relationship."),
there's no reason to think that this new relationship would be any good.

					-- hs

(So, is this what that game, "Scruples" is about?  Did I win?  What's my
prize?)

    I do not know if I can be coherent on this one....but what the heck
    is the woman's movement about if we go after someone that we know
    is in a relationship.  We had a rule when we were in high school
    that said how long a couple had to be separated before we would
    date the boy.  We have a topic here about anger towards men.....and
    what they have done to women.  And then we say that it is okay to
    go after a married guy because if we get him there was something
    wrong to begin with.  What about our sister?  What about the tears
    she will shed, what about her?
    
    To my ways of thinking your friend should say to himself anyone
    that goes after me knowing I am married is a spoiled brat and will
    make my life miserable.  
    
    As I said I can't be coherent on this one.....see note I am going
    to insert in a few minutes.

    There's quite a difference between being attracted to someone and
    acting on it. The first is mostly harmless, while the latter is
    potentially destructive. I think that mild attraction and friendship 
    can mix nicely (and comfortably). On the other hand, there's a point
    where it becomes poisonous. Your friend should consider why he's
    so tempted to "stray" from his primary relationship -- it sounds
    like his marriage is doing poorly. 
        
    For me, monogamy is a strong part of my marital commitment. I can
    not, however, judge others on the issue.
    
    Liz

    
    Thanks for your comments so far. 

    From my point of view, which is from a monogamous male, married 10
    years, having known/lived with etc my wife since grammar school (UK
    "high school") I found this difficult to answer. It's a situation out
    of my experience, except that I had to end up likening it to wanting a
    new Hi-Fi. If you currently have a reasonably efficient Hi-Fi, why
    spend a lot of time and trouble buying a new one? Especially if
    it meant a lot of unhappiness, moving house as the Hi-Fi wouldn't
    be able to fit into the old house etc
    
    Now I know that is likening women to posessions, but I merely tried
    to draw an analagy.
    
    To me, the arguments I put forward seem logical. They just didn't
    get anywhere near convincing my friend.
    
    I don't believe that advancing some of the hypocrisy in the answers
    to this topic would help anyone overmuch either.
    
    For those who have answered sensibly, my thanks.
    
    I just asked myself what conclusions I can draw as an observer.
    Only that genitalia have short-term goals, whereas people have
    long-term lives. I'll try that advice. It may be trite but its
    certainly true.

    re -1:
    
    >...advancing some of the hypocrisy in the answers to this topic...

    What hypocrisy?  Please explain.
    
    	-Ellen

    I agree with Liz--it's fine (and fun) to feel attraction, and even
    to acknowledge it.  Acting on it is a completely different matter.
    
    Those attractions are ways that we know that we are still attractive
    and desirable to other people--they can make us feel good.  If they
    are mutual, it can even be fun to fantasize about the possibilities!
    
    As a mature adult, though, if I am in a committed relationship,
    one of the aspects of that commitment is not just walking out for
    something better!  If there are fundamental problems in the
    relationship, to me the commitment means trying to work those out.
    If I do my best to work those out, and decide I cannot, ok, maybe
    it's time to "be available" again.   I owe it to the first person
    to end the first relationship in a responsible way.
    
    But I couldn't feel good about myself if I had just been coasting along
    in a mezzo-mez relationship for lack of something better, and then
    when something seemingly better came along, used that as the excuse
    to end the first relationship.   What a trashy way to treat another
    person!
                                                       
    I keep hearing that there are couples who can do "open relationships"
    above and beyond their primary ones.  A few succeed, but too often
    I have heard stories of pain, lack of trust, and betrayal.  I would
    think very seriously about taking that kind of a step because the
    damage that it can do can be irrevocable.
    
    Holly

One other scenario:
In one situation I know of, having a woman get with a married man 
saved his life.  Two years ago my brother met a woman who was 
very attracted to him.  He was married for 18 years, and at age 
39 had two preteen boys.  To condense a long, involved story, he 
ended his marriage.  But what I found out later was the 
following:  He and his wife at the time had been through several 
years of marriage therapy, with the marriage continuing to get 
worse (more fighting/less sex).  He was thinking about suicide he 
felt so trapped.  Unfortunately, he is also someone who has a lot 
of trouble making difficult, emotion-filled decisions and 
standing firm on them.  The advent of this new woman was the 
catalyst for him to get out.  Thank the Goddess he did.  I never 
realized until much later how close he came to ending his life.

Ideally, if he were more emotionally stable, he would've been 
able to say the marriage wasn't working and to get out.  But it 
was clear he didn't have it in him.

His lover is now about to be his new wife, after 2 years of being
on his own for the first time in his life.  Like an earlier note 
pointed out, however, his lover was looking for a permanent 
relationship.  If it were a man who was the third party, the 
marriage may have broken up, but it's less likely that it 
would've ended up in a new permanent relationship (although 
there's a lot of evidence that that's changing too!).

Extra-marital affairs are statements that something's not right 
in the relationship.  They're opportunities to see where things 
are really at as well.  An article in Atlantic Magazine by Maggie 
Scarf on relationships recently said that the person who 
initiates the extra-maritial affair is usually the one with the 
opportunity presented to them, both people usually feel 
something's wrong.

Just as an aside to all this.  The women who have contributed to 
some of the notes on Anger Toward Men and Equality have made 
valid points about how difficult the world is for you, and I've 
read and have seen the validity of each contribution.  But you're 
soooo lucky in one respect: you can confide, share and 
commiserate with your sisters when things aren't going well in 
your marriage or relationship.  For most men, by and large, that 
just doesn't exist.  When something's wrong in a relationship for 
a man, who does he have to turn to?  Women, not other men.

Thanks,
Chuck

    Again, agreement that attraction can be fun, but acting on that
    attraction can be irresponsible.  After all, I don't eat chocolate
    everytime I see that, either!  I have a commitment to the relationship
    that nourishes my life and soul, and I'm not going to abandon that
    for a binge that may ultimately ruin my emotional health.  But being
    moderately attracted to someone can be fun, and flirting can be
    fun.  
    
    Like everything else, it's a matter of determining your priorities.
    
    re: .17
    
    It's very sad, Chuck, that many men can't turn to each other when they
    have problems in their relationships with women.  I have to assume they
    often see it as a reflection on themselves -- i.e. a problem with the
    relationship implies they are lacking in some way.  Women I know seem
    to find it easier to discuss marital/relational problems among
    themselves, probably because they accept problems in relationships as a
    fact of life. 
    
    Gloria
    

When you make a promise like "I will love, honor and cherish you, forsaking all
others, until death do us part" I don't think you HAVE to be a despicable
slime ball to break it, but it helps. I think you DO have to be a despicable
slime ball to break it without telling the one you made it to that you're
having second thoughts about the wisdom of making it in the first place.

My philosophy is "don't make promises you can't keep" which is one reason
why I've never made the above promise. I've had a co-vivant and parnter for
12 years who is my lifemate. In that time I've loved other people, and my
partner always knew ahead of time who I was loving and when and even (to
some extent) why. "Forsaking all others" wasn't part of the agreement, and
loving others hasn't brought disaster. Loving others was not a result of
problems with my partner. Breaking promises is still not allowed.

On a slightly different tangent:

I once knew a single woman who preferred married men because she really
didn't want a committed intimate relationship. Married men were "safe" for
her becuase she didn't have to really work on her relationship issues. They
were also "safe" WITH her, because as soon as there was any sign of
instability in the marriage she'd get scared and drop the guy like a hot
potato.

I didn't know any of the men involved or any of their wives (that was part
of the point!) but I can imagine that it could work out fine all around if
the married couple didn't really want to split up, but didn't want to be
intimate companions for each other either.

It takes all kinds to make a world.

Don.

  
 For the original noter:

 I do hope you're getting your friend to read these notes.  
 I doubt anything he reads (or you say) will help him decide
 what to do.  Obviously most of the people who have
 responded so far are saying "don't do it", and I suspect
 many of them are speaking from bitter experience.

 I have been on both sides of your friend's fence.  I have
 cheated and been cheated on.  Neither was any fun, and both
 caused a good deal of pain for all concerned.  I made myself
 a promise never to pull that kind of nonsense again and I
 make darn sure to only get involved with people to whom
 fidelity is as important as it is to me now.  It has made 
 my life a lot easier!

 A question to ask your friend:  why does he want to hurt
 his wife?  Is he angry at her?  Is he bored with the
 relationship?  I know it's hard to think when the hormones
 are screaming, but if at all possible he should try to think
 of this as a symptom of trouble in his marriage, and try
 to identify the root cause.  

    
    Re .16, there are a lot of ways in which to treat another person
    in a trashy manner.  Having sex with another person is only one
    of them and not even the worst.
    
    Re .19, I'll never know if it would have helped me to be a "slime-ball"
    to break that promise, because I'm not a slime-ball and I sure broke
    the promise.  The answer for me is to never make *that* promise
    again.
    
    I'm not cheering on promiscuity or cheating, I only feel that we
    don't really know how we would act in a certain situation until
    it happens to us, so we shouldn't be too ready to condemn the sexual
    behavior of others - as long as it involves two consenting adults
    of course!
    
    Lorna
    

    I have always felt that it is not the responsibility of the third
    person to assess the 'availability' of whomever they are seeing.
    If someone in a marriage initiates an extra marital affair, that
    probably means there is something far more wrong in the marriage
    than the affair - the affair is only a symptom.
    
    As far as the 'cheated on' spouse goes, some people can't accept
    that their spouse just left them unless it is for someone else.
    I was in that situation for several years.  I left several times,
    and talked about leaving others - always with the same kind of
    conversation:
    
    S:  Why are you leaving?
    
    E:  I'm not happy.  I think I would be better off out of this
    relationship.
    
    S:  How would you be better off?
    
    E:  I am already feeling single - that is, I don't have anyone
    (including you) who is particularly close to me.  I think I would
    be better off ending this relationship, and when I'm ready, find
    someone else.
    
    S:  Why can't you stay here?  Living with me is not unpleasant,
    now is it?  It has some advantages.  Why don't you just stay here
    and do what you want until you find someone else?
    
    E:  It hampers my ability to look for one thing.
    
    S:  Why is that?
             
    
    This would go on until I agreed to stay or come back.  I finally
    left after I started another relationship.  He was upset that I
    had finally found someone - but certainly not surprised.  After
    that, he was able to easily accept me leaving his life.  
    
    It's too bad some people can't imagine leaving for reasons other
    than having someone else - but it is true.
    
    Elizabeth
                                           

    When I mention hypocrisy I was referring to the noter who had said
    what a bad thing it was to have an affair but that if they were
    the woman they'd still be going after the feller involved.
    
    Andy

	One thing no one has commented on is the statement that the woman 
	is one with whom the person has a working relationship.  This adds 
	further complications to the already messy issue of cheating, having 
	an affair with a married man, etc.  

	Among the questions to be considered might be:

	What is the extent of the working relationship?  Are they
	co-workers?  Does one report to the other (management or project
	level)?  If their affair is found out, will it have any impact on
	this working relationship?  Would reviews become suspect?  (remember
	the Mary Cunningham controversy a few years ago)

	If they begin a relationship and decide to make it serious, what
	effect will this have on the working relationship?   Will company
	rules allow it [w-rship] to continue?  

	If he refuses and she objects (either directly or by continuing
	the pursuit), what effect would THIS have on their working 
	relationship??

	Would he be willing to endanger and/or change his job as a 
	result of the affair?

	Yes, these are secondary to the effects on his marital relationship,
	but having a relationship with a co-worker (even between singles)
	has its own share of problems....

Just guessing, not knowing the wife or the exact situation, but it seems to
me that we're talking about three most-likely nonconsenting adults as
opposed to two consenting adults.  Whatever choice your friend makes he
must deal with his spouse on the front end, (flagrant personal opinion
follows) else his integrity is in question (a contender for slimeballness).
He contracted (implicitly) a partnership, an action for which he bears at
least some responsibility regardless of the faults/failing of his partner.
If he wants to end it or substantially change its nature he has to deal
with the partner first. 

Byron (who played the eventually unhappy role of slime ball in an
engagement which came to nothing) 

>    When I mention hypocrisy I was referring to the noter who had said
>    what a bad thing it was to have an affair but that if they were
>    the woman they'd still be going after the feller involved.
    
>    Andy

I think you must mean me, or Lorna, as I responded that if I were the woman,
I would pursue the man.  

I'm sorry that you find that hypocritical, as I don't consider it to be
so at all.  What I *said* was that given my situation, *I* wouldn't want an
affair, and I hoped my husband wouldn't want an affair.....

I don't recall saying anything about the people who feel the need to
have one other than *I* wouldn't do it....  I'm not going to state the
obvious about hurt and humiliation, etc..  I don't APPROVE of affairs
between married people.  I don't approve of casual sex either!

But I'm not going to condem someone for fighting for what she believes
is right, or what she wants, or maybe this guy has led her down the primrose
path of "My wife doesn't understand me..." "She won't sleep with me...."
"We're practically divorced now, I just haven't moved out yet".

And if *I* were the woman doing the pursuing (which indicates that I am a
single woman currently unattached), I have the confidence in myself to go
after what I want and need.

I can understand BOTH sides of this coin.  

The restriction in behavior is my marriage to the man I love....
The first involves that, the second assumes no such liability.

Hypocrisy is the pretention of feelings or beliefs that I really don't have.
Sorta like fraud, I guess.  If I were chasing a guy just to dump him when
I got bored, then fine, that's hypocrisy....

I make promises and I keep them.  It's not up to ME to keep HIS promise FOR
HIM!!!!!

Karen

    There is another side to this question that has been touched on
    but not really explored. 
    
   How does a happily married person  deal with physical attraction
    if it occurs in a good friendship? It has been mentioned that it
    is inevitable that it will happen and we should expect it but
    how do others of you defuse the situation and keep the friend.
    My best solution is to try and draw the person into my large
    family circle and make them a fami friend. . 

        Another male opinion, but I too do not read MenNotes. I've
        written about this sort of thing in Human_Relations, and so I'll
        try to be brief.
        
        I'm another who believes that you live with the commitments that
        you make, that have promised to love, honor and cherish, for
        good or bad, until parted by death, that's what you do. You do
        it not only for integrity and duty, but because over the years
        you build a relationship, and the investment is basically
        impossible to recoup. 
        
        None-the-less, if you are a healthy adult, you will, I suspect,
        always encounter others with whom you feel the same chemistry
        and perhaps even more as attracted you to your spouse. Certainly
        it has happened to me a number of times over the years. What I
        have come to realize is that I really don't *want* to act on the
        chemistry. I don't want to sacrifice what Selma and I have built
        up in the last 17 years. I don't want to hurt her, and no-one
        could be as good for me as some-one who's had 17 years of
        practice at it. My wife has become the ideal--the standard by
        which all women are measured.
        
        There are, in my life at this very moment a couple of women with
        whom I feel the same chemistry as with Selma, women with whom I
        could probably have been (the tense is important) as happy as I
        am with Selma. Who knows, perhaps I could have been more happy.
        But only if we had met when we were both free. Only if she
        didn't have to measure up against 17 years.
        
        How do I deal with the attraction? Fairly easily, actually.
        Despite the attraction, which is strong and exciting, I really
        don't *WANT* to do anything about it. I know it wouldn't be as
        good as it should. Selma, the boys, my conscience and 17 years
        would get in the way. On the other hand I'm fairly confident it
        would be good. Sex would take the feelings I have and start
        building pair bonds--pair bonds that conflicted with the ones I
        already have. The sex would probably be good (though not what it
        could have been in other circumstances), and good sex would
        bring complication.
        
        And having realized that I don't want less than what it should
        be, that I don't want to hurt Selma, that I don't want to
        sacrifice what I have, and that I don't want to complicate what
        is a beautiful relationship, I am freed. I can love these women.
        I can hold them. I can be a very close friend. I can have an
        intimacy like that of an old lover who parted on good terms. It
        doesn't threaten what I have, and it won't turn into something
        bad.
        
        The nature of the relationship is explicit. There is love, there
        is trust, and there is limited commitment. The relationship is
        secondary. My marriage is primary. Beyond the needs of my own
        family, I will do anything I can for these women. I know now
        after many years what it is that I have, what I want and what I
        don't want. We've discussed it and agreed that this is where we
        stand. 
        
        Not as brief as I'd hoped. Oh, well.
        
        JimB.

    
    Well, the friend involved in this situation resolved it by leaving
    his job and finding another.
    
    One added complication I hadn't mentioned was that the woman was the
    manager of my friend. This made life so complex that he decided to move
    onward.
    
    Thanks for all your comments. 

    Well I have to put in my thoughts on this, seeings as I'm involved
    with a married man.  It is hard to put in words all that I feel
    but I will try.
    
    When the relationship started we were just "friends" and as it went
    we became more than that.  I believe the reason he see's me is because
    he can do things with me that his wife won't do with him, he can
    let go and just be himself or as he says he can vent!  So I take
    that as his wife's fault and his they should talk to each other
    and see how the other person feel's.  I do know that he loves her
    but what is missing in her he finds in me.  
    
    For me I like married men because they are "SAFE" I do not want
    a serious relationship as of yet.  I sometimes wonder though when
    I do have one if my man will cheat on me as a punishment for what
    I have done to other wife's, girlfriends.  I'm not sure how this
    will end or when it has been going on for a year and I don't see
    and ending in the near future, but one never know's.  I also wonder
    what would happen if the wife was to find out.  I'm sure it would
    not be a pretty pitcure, I know that I do not want to hurt her,
    but everytime I see him it is hurting her even if she does not know
    it yet.
    
    So I can't say what to do it is tough, I guess it all depends on
    what you want out of the relationship.

    
    
    re 31
    not going to pass any judgements BUT.....
    the only one tiny? little thing i didn't care for in your expose'
    is.....
    	the lying!
    	(i assume your s.o.'s wife knows nothing about you)
    	this isn't good or fair.
    	if your happy, that's good
    	if he's happy, that's ok...
    	but "she" should know the truth so she can make a decision
    as to what she wants to do;
    
    	1. stay in the relationship and keep it as is
    	2. stay in the relationship and start doing what he and you
    are doing
    	3. get out of the relationship and find others to date
    	4. shoot both of you (just kidding)
    	5. __________________________________(insert other possibilities)
    
    	i wouldn't want to "believe" that my s.o. was "faithful"
    only to have that s.o. actually cheating/lying.
    	if your s.o. wants you and his wife he should say so...to both
    of you..and maybe (this being 1987 and america) the 3 of you can
    be quite happy.
    	if the 3 of you can agree on that then you got my blessing...
    	(but no wedding gifts!)
    
    	but the truth is much better than the b.s.