Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Is there an alternative to suspending topics? Can moderators suggest
    cooler heads, or point out the sorts of communication methods that
    are generally not communicative, when they occur? I, for one (and
    sometimes two :-)), tend to think several times about what a moderator
    says when they have their moderator hat on. They're reasponsible
    for the whole darn file; an unenviable position.
    	Mez

    I agree with Mez.  A simple warning reply from the moderator should
    be all that is necessary.  Some noters aren't aware that what they've
    written has crossed the line from discussion to personal attack.
    
    Closing a topic to all noters comes across as a punishment.  However,
    if a moderator's reply is not heeded, then setting the note as
    read-only for a day or two may be necessary to save face for the
    noters involved.
    
    			Barbara b.

    As a moderator (of other conferences), I agree with the notion that 
    a moderator can and should "remind" noters about what might be 
    inappropriate.  I have not hesitated to do so in the conferences I 
    moderate, though I recently came under attack by one noter for trying
    to stop others from bashing another noter.
    
    People do get carried away at times.  Another problem moderators
    have to cope with is some noters forgetting the concept of the
    topic of a conference.  Since they may read this conference,
    for example, a lot, random topics get dumped in here.  (The same
    goes for MENNOTES and HUMAN_RELATIONS, by the way.)  A moderator
    should feel free to redirect discussion when it seems necessary.
    Too many tangents makes the conference less useful to the community.

    					Steve

    I agree with the practice of warning replies. It is the responsibility
    of the moderators to remind people when policies of the conference
    are being (er) "stretched". Only when such warnings are ignored
    should a topic be set NOWRITE. 
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    Having been guilty of making statements that I felt were only a
    contribution to the debate, only to discover that to some (many?) members of
    the gender I don't belong to, the remarks were either offensive or capable
    of serious missinterpretation, I would vote for a warning (similar to
    the yellow card/red card system in soccer perhaps? :-)
    
    you might consider making the offending reply "hidden" for a while and
    then sending the author mail to point out the problem. That gives them
    an opportunity to "revise and extend their remarks" as members of Congress
    are wont to do when they have said something hasty.
    
    /. Ian .\

  I've seen more sharing in this conference than any other I subscribe
  to, HUMAN_RELATIONS and MENNOTES among them.  It's really special that
  we have this place to share things that are really close to use, whether
  they be painful or pleasant or ambivalent.  But that also means knees
  will jerk faster, flames will be higher and hotter than if we were casually
  discussing the weather.
  
  We can moderate ourselves by remembering the 24 hour cool down rule.
  After 24 hours, you can still put across the point that was so important
  to you in the first place without attacking the person(s) presenting
  the opposing view.  Remember that we're not trying to convert anyone
  else emotionally or intellectually, we're trying to share our experiences
  and our viewpoints.  You can still ask the "offender" to step outside
  while you two hash it out without jeopardizing the whole conference,
  if changing someone's different viewpoint is indeed your goal.
  
  And, if the flames are still continuing, then it is the responsibility
  of the moderator in the interest of maintaining the conference to issue a 
  reminder.  If that has no effect, then the note should be write-locked for 
  24 hours.  A moderator is kind of like a referree.  It's a tough job,
  but we in the community respect that in the interests of maintaining
  a conference of this quality.
  
  				My opinion,
  
  
  						Terza
  
  

    	RE:  .3
    
   	>  A moderator
    	>  should feel free to redirect discussion when it seems necessary.
    	>  Too many tangents makes the conference less useful to the
    	>  community.
    
    		Personally, I think it is quite rude and *unnecessary*
    	for a moderator to "redirect" harmless tangents (unless it is
    	obvious that the person added a reply to the wrong note or
    	started a new note when they *meant* to write a reply.)
    
    		Harmless tangents can be interesting, after all, and
    	we *all* are free to bypass those tangents that are not of
    	interest to any of us personally.  We are *also* free to help
    	put the topic back on track by adding comments that are more
    	closely applicable to the basenote (or to the last appropriate
    	reply.)
    
    		Comments from moderators that run along the lines of
    	"This is not relavent to this topic" are just plain rude
    	in a free-floating discussion in a non-work notesfile.  The
    	tangents may not seem "useful" to you, but they may be *quite*
    	useful and interesting to others.  While it doesn't really
    	hurt to suggest to someone "Gee, that would make a good new
    	note all on its own" -- the types of comments that are typically
    	made by moderators who intervene are of a much more critical
    	tone (such as "Please stop talking about that.  It has nothing
    	to do with this topic.")
    
    		As far as trying to keep the peace in a "hot" note,
    	I think it *is* appropriate for a moderator to step in and
    	remind folks that the discussion is getting out of hand.
    
    		*BUT* -- such comments should be made in a way that
    	is *not* patronizing to other noters.  I've seen moderators
    	in other conferences make comments that are just as bad or
    	*worse* than the content of the replies that they were
    	trying to "cool off."  Moderators are not our parents or our
    	managers -- and while I feel *strongly* that they provide a
    	great service to all of us, some of them need to remember
    	that they are our peers in the workplace (and that we all
    	deserve to be treated with respect.)
    
    		BTW, this is not an "attack" against you, Steve,
    	or against moderators in general.  I simply disagree with
    	the content of your note.
    
    		Also, I think the moderators of this particular
    	conference have done an excellent job and have *not* made
    	comments like the ones I described above.
    
    						Suzanne....

Speaking as a moderator (of NO_SMOKING), the best way I found to handle
tangents is to start a fresh topic and add a reply to the topic going
down a rathole that redirects the discussion.

Since the <NEXT NOTE> key on my terminal hasn't worn out yet, I'd prefer
*not* stopping the debate here -- I found that by looking at the author's
name and the length of the reply, I can easily estimate my interest in
a reply.  Of course, this means that I'm missing some interesting/important
writing, and the author's I'm avoiding are missing part of their audience.

Martin.

This conference has an almost observable (:-)) ebb and flow about it.
Though many topics were covered in the first twenty notes, the thing I
remember most is scrapping about how men should contribute to this file.
After a while we got to know each other and accommodate the various styles.
For example, /Dave gets ribbed abit, I'm sure some folks hit KP3 when they
see his banner. /Dave also seems to have toned down his replies.  Just one
example, though.  All the long timers have learned to get along somewhat.  

The next 80 (? quick guess) were often full of heat but almost always
generated a good ratio of light. 

Then Men, the notesfile, (and then mennontes) came along and suddenly we
had a higher profile and concentrated influx of new contributors.
Consequently, like cat's getting to know one another we've gone back to
scrapping again.  This second time around seems a tad more virulent, but I
think it's along the same line of folks coming to understand one another.
Sometimes you have to get personal to do that. 

So that background out of the way, I found the Cherly Tiegs note
heat/light ratio pretty abysmal, and an example of when the scrapping went
beyond getting to know one another and onto simply getting to one another.
While moderators aren't parents, I do think they are in a unique position
and have a responsibility to moderate (V.  to make or become less violent,
severe, extreme) from a position somewhat removed from the discussion (when
they have their moderator hats on, which ain't all the time). 
 
Extreme emotion like extreme rationality is usually not too conducive to
productive interaction. 

-Byron

I like this notes file, in fact it may be my favorite.

This is because its contributors are opinionated, intelligent, and
not afraid to hold nothing back. 

It deals with life, real life in the real world.

Only because of this frankness and explicitness, it has been like
that sister I never had. 

To moderate this file, one must walk a very fine line to preserve 
the characteristics I love in Womennotes.

My vote: be very conservative in taking any new actions, 

		in other words

~  If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

~  The squeaky wheel is often in the minority.


		~Mike