Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I had sex education in school also in the early 70's.  I really
    believe it help me.  We talked about Veneral Disease how you get
    it and what you should do about.  Also talked about pregnancy and
    all the wives tales involved - like the first time you do it you
    CAN get pregnant contrary to belief.......I thought it was good
    and wish it had more in it.  I don't think knowing more would of
    made me go hog wild.  I think it was very beneficial.  I think kids
    need that because when I was 'dating' you be surprised how many
    guys didn't know about birth control, VD or anything else!  I think
    education is more important than being IGNORANT or street smart.
    I'm pro-sex education in school but also at HOME....more parents
    need to discuss it and I know how hard it is to talk about.  Kids
    or parents who are not comfortable talking about it together benefit
    from a sex education in school.
    
    bs

    [Please note that I went to school mainly in Britain]
    
    I attended an all-boys school and sex-education was on the regular
    curriculum as part of the Biology course. It covered in some detail
    the processes involved, as well as the dangers involved in terms of
    sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancy etc. A follow up course that
    I took as part of my sixth form science curriculum (ie at age 16-17)
    included rather more technical information.
    
    Prior to starting the course a letter was sent to the parents offering
    them a chance to inspect the teaching material to be used, and also
    to pull the child from the course if they objected.
    
    Simultaneously the Religious Instruction course contained a series of
    lectures on the conventional christian ethics of sexual relationships.
    
    ===
    
    I found, strangely enough, that the all-girls school next door to the
    school I attended, did not have a sex-ed curriculum, consequently on
    dates it was usually the girls with the wierd, street smart ideas, and
    the boys with the clinical knowledge. (Though I am sure that was purely
    a local phenomena).

    ===
    
    In a perfect world perhaps parents would impart this knowledge to their
    offspring. However we all know that it is an imperfect world. Parents,
    for whatever reason, frequently either do not teach their children about
    sex, or leave until after the child has started to experiment, when
    it is often too late.
    
    In the circumstances, I think that, because ignorance is so dangerous,
    that this subject should be taught in schools.
    
    I know that it is often said that teaching sex in schools leads children
    to experiment, but I recall no such tendency when I was at school. Indeed
    I suspect it may even have had the opposite effect. And some of the
    microscope slides of diseased tissues that we got to look at certainly
    gave people pause to think!
    
    /. Ian .\

The sum total of my sexual knowledge before my sophomore year of high
school was given to me by my mother.  "Nice girls don't let boys touch
them there... or there!".  An exact quote, I occasionally toss it back to
Mom when she's being exceptionally backward or giving her grandchildren
an attempted morals lesson that only leaves them confused.  It usually works
because Mom always blushes and says," Did I *really* say that?".

At any rate, I was pretty much an all-A student, backwards as hell, and
naive to the point that when a boy asked me my bra size, I'd tell him....
without batting an eye.  Why they wanted to know this piece of information
was beyond me, but since they'd asked, I answered.

My 10th grade biology class turned into a sex ed class in the Spring
semester.  The teacher drew diagrams on the blackboard and started
talking about how the male sperm impregnated the female egg and thus
babies got started, and you could get VD, and when you did, things turned
black and started to fall off.  [Note:  sophomore level interprettation
offered here.]

So anyway, she draws this large arrow and it "points" to the egg and she
says that the sperm has get into the vagina and then makes it's way up,
Hell bent on getting to this egg or dying in the process.  I even
picked up on her explanation that all these sperm gangbang the one egg,
each one driven towards self-satisfaction.

So, I raised my hand, and calmly asked, "Yes, but.... HOW does the
sperm get into the vagina.." and I might add I was badly mispronouncing
'vagina' as well.

"What?"  she requested some clarification.

I repeated my question and she cleared her throat.  She then began a
10-minute tirade on marriage and love, and how when two people love
each other, through mutual respect and devotion, the sperm somehow gets 
into the vagina and have their way with the egg.

I came OUT of the class firm in my resolution that I would never fall in
love because it made babies.  When John Arcaro asked me out to the movies
(the tall, handsome pianist in our orchestra who made my 16-year-old
heart go pitta-pat), I turned him down flat because I wasn't prepared
for taking care of a child.....

It wasn't until my girlfriend MaryLou, at the Locker of 1,000 Vestial
Virgins, gave me a copy of The Sensous Woman, that I began to get the
connections connected up correctly.

This teacher was SO afraid that she was going to corrupt my innocence
and drive me down the path to wrongdoings, she TOTALLY screwed me up!!
Granted, I was very prone to the suggestion of authority figures at
that time.  But WHY couldn't she have hauled me aside, explained
intercourse to me, and CLEARED UP one very confused adolescent!!!?

At the very first opportunity, I asked John Arcaro out and we saw "Oliver"
at the movies and didn't even have a baby!!!!

Bugs

    I taught in a private school, and "human development" was a 5th
    and 6th grade topic there.
    
    I think that the key factor in making it work was the trust and
    rapport that the teachers and students shared.  That kind of
    relationship has to be developed before starting a topic like that!
    
    One of the ground rules was that the kids could ask the teacher
    any question that they wanted to...except about the teacher
    him/herself.  The teacher could volunteer that sort of thing, but
    in general it helped to keep the questions appropriate.  
    
    I remember that the students had a carpeted area of the classroom
    where they sat on the floor for meetings, and that most of the unit
    was taught in pretty close proximity rather than from their desks.
    It seemed to create a feeling of safety.
    
    There was one wonderful veteran teacher there, and she helped all
    the rest of us field the tricky questions.  She only got flustered
    one time that I remember.  There were a girl and boy in that class
    who were good friends and who played at one another's houses quite
    a bit.  The girl raised her hand, and said "I understand how the
    egg gets fertilized, but what I don't understand is why Steven's
    mother (prominent PTA leader and civic organizer) has a plastic
    penis in her drawer...what good would that do?".
    
    This teacher managed to stammer out something before staggering
    into the teacher's room for some support--I think she sent the kids
    out to recess early!  (And she wasn't shocked at the question, or
    at the idea of a dildo, but she also wasn't quite prepared to discuss
    it with kids...)
                    

    The closest I came to sex education in school was when my high school
    showed a film to all the junior and senior girls about breast cancer
    and self-examination.  We had to have a signed form from our parents
    allowing us to watch.
    
    One thing I never understood is why our "physical education" classes
    didn't include any hygiene material at all, or why our "home economics"
    classes only taught us to cook and sew, and not to balance a budget.
    But my small town had a large population of fundamentalist Christians,
    so curriculum was quite restricted.  

When I was a senior in high school (about 10 years ago), they taught sex ed
as the senior health course (a quarter of the year instead of gym).  I
learned a lot from it.  They taught a lot of clinical stuff, including giving
birth, contraception, VD, and the dispelling of myths.  The teacher was really
good, and that probably made a lot of difference (as in all classes, of course).
I don't remember much more than that, but it served its purpose back then.

I don't think teaching sex ed in schools is going to give anyone (bad) ideas
that they don't already have.  You should at least be sure the kids are exposed
to the facts, and you can't trust all parents to do this at home, or to do more
harm than good.  Having a good relationship with the teacher and being able to
ask questions, and doing more than just clinical explanations (ie talking about
relationships between adults, etc) would make the program even more effective.
And would encouraging children and their parents to talk be asking too much?

Teaching this course senior year nowadays is *much* too late.  Perhaps an
advanced or more detailed course could be given then to supplement an earlier
version that covers all the basics.

And what *is* being taught today and at what age?

Jill

    My daughter is in the 7th grade and I don't think she's had any
    sex education in school yet (and none that she'll admit to outside
    of school).  But, judging from the teenagers I know I think the
    classes should be in 6th and 7th grades.
    
    I've told my daughter (just turned 13) that I'm willing to tell
    her anything about sex or discuss anything, but she just doesn't
    want to talk about this stuff with me.  I asked her if she'd been
    kissed yet and she disgustedly said, "No, of course not."  I told
    her it wouldn't be a crime if she had, but she's apparently not
    interested yet.  I wish I could make her not mind discussing these
    things with me though.  I don't know how to seem to be any less
    judgemental or more open-minded than I do.
    
    I graduated from high school in 1967 and the only sex education
    we had in school was one film about VD.  It was one of the stupidest,
    most sexist things I can ever remember seeing.  The main characters
    were a "nice boy and girl".  The nice boy got seduced by a floozy
    (sp?) who wore tight red plaid pants, a tight red sweater, and had
    blonde hair.  He caught VD and gave it to the nice girl whose parents
    found out and yelled at her.  Everyone blamed the nasty girl in
    the tight red pants and boys were warned to stay away from that
    type of girl.  As the credits rolled, we saw the floozy wiggling
    her rear off into the distance with her bright red pants on.
    (Apparently nobody wondered where the floozy got VD, or maybe they
    thought she was born with it, but no sympathy for her!)
    
    Lorna
    

    Lorna,
    
    I find that I have to force the pace a bit with my kids. If I just
    waited until they asked I'm not sure when we would have talked about
    anything more embarassing than the simple stories of where a baby
    comes from that they all got around 4 or so. One thing I will do
    with my 13 year old daughter is start talking on such a topic when
    we are alone together. I'll use an article from seventeen, or a
    dear abby or ask beth column as a starting point. I'll usually go
    slightly longer than she's willing to listen but at least I feel
    she's being exposed to some facts. My oldest boy who is 17 will
    now ask questions occasionally. For my middle son once he got into
    puberty we really haven't talked much, and my husband doesn't try
    as hard as I do with his sister to get him talking. The other
    night at dinner tho we had a long talk on Aids and why kids of
    their generation were at high risk.
    My 9 year old is resisting haveing any kind of conversation about
    what it means to have a period - she's beginning to develop so
    I want her to know what is coming. She gets very embarassed when
    I bring it up. So far I haven't pushed it - but I've told her
    she needs to understand what's going to be happening.
    None of them have received much in the way of sex education in school.
    The school is in a fairly conservative area and efforts to put
    in a program were strongly resisited. I know something was finally
    put in place but it was fairly timid.
    (a lot of the time I do a good deal of crossing my fingers and hopeing
    everying will go well, sigh....:-) )
    Bonnie

How can children be young enough to not know about sex/sexuality/puberty/etc,
but know enough to be embarrassed to talk with their parents?  Where does
the embarrassment come from?  Or do they just not want to talk with their
parents at all? 

    re .10
    Interesting question, and one that I have wondered about myself.
    We have always been open about talking about nearly every thing
    and with the exception of *that* subject will talk openly about
    nearly everything... so I dunno

    I would have died before discussing any of the above with my mother,
    or worse, my father.  Friends were the only ones I considered to
    be reliable sources in early adolescence (how naive...).  I found
    the older girls at an all-girl camp to be helpful and reliable,
    and their information stood the test of time.
    
    We saw some movies in Girl Scouts, and it was easier for me to be
    in an all-female environment for that kind of thing.  It was also
    easier for me to talk with my leader than my mother.   I supplemented
    the "street" information with reading.  Friends of mine with teenagers
    have tried leaving books around the house, and most of them think
    the books get read.
    
    One friend found that her teenage son had found and appropriated
    her small collection of pornography, and had stashed it under his
    bed...she replaced it with a good book on sex ed for teenagers!
    He must have been just a little surprised!
    
    

    If kids too young to know about sex are embarassed to discuss it,
    they are reflecting the embarassment of their *parents* or the other
    adults involved.  If you hem and haw and blush and talk around the
    subject, they are going to pick up the idea that there is something
    *inherently* embarassing about sexual subjects.  This is why sex
    education in the schools often doesn't work -- the kids already
    have an idea that sex is embarassing that they picked up at home
    (when Daddy quickly pulls his hand off Mommy's butt when the kid
    walks in the room -- when Mommy pushes the box of sanitary products
    out of sight and hides them in the bathroom).
    
    

    .13
    You know I thought that was true before I had kids. So I did my
    best to be open and unembarassed (not too hard since I taught
    biology to adults). Guess what, they are still embarassed!  

    re: .14
    
    Can't keep the kids away from the media, which is all nudge, nudge,
    wink, wink about sex.

    re: 8
    
    My son is 13 and we have had plenty of discussions on sex... There's
    a great book out just for young teenagers which helps a great deal
    for us to discuss sex at least it opens the doors for my son to
    ask questions and receive a nother point of view.  I don't know
    the name of the book (off hand) but if your interested, I'll check
    out tonight and let you know.  I recommend this book to young/old
    teens... its' written by teens of all ages.
    
    					Marie
    

   Thinking back to my own high school days, I can think of only
   one family where sex was openly discussed, apparently without
   embarrassment.  I was always amazed at the topics that would be
   generally discussed, with children ranging from ages 8 to 16
   taking part.
 
   I think the key was the parents and the way they presented sex
   as a natural part of life.  A copy of _Our Bodies, Ourselves_
   floated about the house (usually living on the coffee table
   in the TV room).  Mommy and Daddy G. (as we called them) 
   would answer just about any question without blushing....they
   were amazingly unflappable.  And it was quite obvious that sex
   was still a part of their marraige.  I remember being shocked 
   one day when I went into their bedroom and was confronted with
   a king size bed with a tube of K-Y jelly on the bedside table.
   (I thought people that old didn't do "it" anymore.)

   So an open atmosphere is achievable, though exactly how
   I'm not sure.  Good luck to those of you with children!
   
		Beth

    I vaguely remember my one "sex ed" calss in high school.  It was
    freshman year, and I was in Honors Biology.  The had us write out
    our questions beforehand, and then closed the doors of the room,
    and read and answered the questions.  By this time, since this was
    the "smart kids" biology class, I'm sure everyone knew all of the
    simple questions; all the questions were about esoterica, such as
    what happens if the testicles fail to descend normally (that was
    my question, but the others were similar).
    
    They should have started talking about, not sexuality, but human
    relationships, several years before that, if they really expected
    to cover things that were important to the teenagers that they didn't
    already know.  However, you have to give them credit for trying,
    I suppose; that was the first "sex ed" class in my high school,
    and we are talking 1967 0r 68 here.

    I received no sex ed in any school I went to.  However, I was probably
    one of the few kids I knew who got the straight dope from my parents
    at home.
    
    My mom and dad were always straightforwardly and physically
    affectionate with each other.  So by the time mom sat me down at
    11 to tell "the facts of life" I was eager to be let in on this
    wonderful mystery.  She made it a formal occasion and I felt very
    womanly and wise [ :-) ].
    
    But how, in a straightforward household, could a kid get embarassed 
    about sex?  Here's how I finally learned to be "embarassed".  When 
    conversations turned in that direction among my peers, I could speak 
    with some authority, and felt quite calm and happy doing it.  But 
    the reaction I got from my girlfriends, and worse, the boys I knew 
    at age 11 was not to be believed (well, maybe it is).  Horrified 
    shushing, snickers, "telling the teacher" on me, jeering by the 
    boys after school--it's a wonder, given all that ugly peer pressure, 
    that I came out relatively unscathed.  But by the time I was in 
    Junior High, I had pretended to comply with an ethic, in order to 
    be liked, that said that sex was disgusting, and that its practice, 
    or any hint of it was supposed to be a deep dark secret.  

    I also eagerly awaited my body's blossoming into womanhood--but my
    girlfriends would have none of it.  They hid in the locker rooms, 
    whispered behind the backs of girls (like me) who started to develop 
    early, made hideous jokes about periods and babies and other womanly 
    matters.  One girl in my 6th grade class actually used to come up 
    to me and punch my new breasts in front of a giggling crowd of 
    other kids, then laugh nastily and sidle away.  I practiced my 
    best Great Stone Face for that one, but how I writhed inside.
    
    So I grew up feeling terribly confused, exulting in my body, but 
    ashamed that I, alone, seemed to feel exultant.  What was wrong
    with me, I wondered, that made the others torture me so?  Was it
    because I was ugly, or evil, or were they being so?  Why did I 
    feel like I did, and not like they did?  Were they right?  Was I 
    right?  And it was these feelings and questions that I never, on 
    pain of death, discussed with either of my parents.  I did not want
    the shame and humiliation I was being subjected to by my peers to
    contaminate the other parts of my life.  I felt if I could wall 
    it off that it would remain separate, have less impact on me.
    Sort of like the impulse to fold around a part of your body that's
    been whacked.
    
    The above may seem somewhat off the topic of this NOTE, but I just
    wanted to illustrate that a kid's attitudes about sex can get shaped
    by more than just "what the parents say" or "what the school says".
    As MEZ pointed out the media is very "noodge, noodge, wink, wink"
    on the subject with their plots, advertising, dust jackets for books
    and other products.
    
    Marcia
    
    So I thank God that my parents were as sensible and straightforward
    as they were, because ultimately I felt that they were right, and
    my peers wrong.  And that feeling sustained me through all the slings
    and arrows.

    Gee, I experienced something totally different.  In the 6th grade
    one of my friends, Tanya, developed earlier than all of us.  She
    looked 17 and was going out with lots of guys.  She used to bring
    in sex cards with nude pictures and she'd tell us all about the
    dirty books she had read.  Did I hate her?  No way!  She was my
    idol, she was everything I wanted to be, she was a woman.
    
    My mother was very open about sex, I could ask her anything and
    she was honest in all her answers.  But the day I got my period,
    that openness stopped.  All these questions I had about what was
    going on, and she would just tell me to be quiet.  I felt so betrayed
    by what she did and to this day when I ask her why she shrugs her
    shoulders and walks away.  I swear I shall never do that to my child.
    
    I had sex ed classes in the 7th grade, but I had drug ed classes 
    in the 5th grade.  I think it should have been the other way around,
    or at least at the same time.  My sister went to the same school
    and when in the 6th grade, the principal went on the PA system to
    announce the pregnancy of a student there.  My sister said the girl
    burst into tears.  I guess they thought it better to punish than
    prepare.