Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    re .0:
    
    > (ABC, 8pm on Saturday Oct 3). 
      
    In Boston it will be shown on WCVB channel 5 (which is an ABC
    affiliate) at the above time. HOWEVER, Star Trek: The Next Generation
    IS NOT an ABC network series. It is a syndicated series and ABC
    I hear is quite upset with WCVB for preempting the ABC offering
    in that time slot. If you are interested in this show PLEASE check
    your LOCAL listings, air dates and times vary widely across the
    nation.
    
    And if you are REALLY interested there is of course the Star Trek
    conference on THEBAY::STAR_TREK. UCOUNT::SF AND UCOUNT::TV also
    have ST:TNG notes.
                                                   
                  /
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                  ) ///
                 /
    

    Glad to see at least one female crewperson [gawd, crewman was so
    much easier 8-) ] still showing a pretty pair of legs.

    Haven't seen it yet but an interesting sidenote. Most of
    the comments in the ST file and even in media were still
    using the phrase "Where no Man has gone before".
    
    BTW Sally Ride has left NASA to do research.
    
    Back to ST there has been a lot of moans about the fact kids
    are on the show(for good reason) but I will have to reserve
    judgement until I see it this Sat.
    
    For NY people or cable WPIX is showing it at 9:00 PM Monday
    Oct.5
    

    <--(.4)
    
    "Crew member" maybe, Dana?

    re .6     Touche !

    	We saw Star Trek: The Next Generation last night!!
    
    	We liked it (although it sort of grew on us slowly at first.)
    	It was hard to get used to the new characters (and the captain
    	kept saying, "Dammit!!")  ;-)
    
    	We *loved* the previews for the next show -- typical Trek
    	stuff (the whole crew catches a virus that simulates alcohol
    	intoxication.)  
    
    	The women's uniforms were a combination (some wore jumpsuits
    	identical to the men's, and some wore very short jumper-type
    	dresses with high boots.)  Both looked good, but very different
    	from the old Trek uniforms.
    
    						    Suzanne....

    Re: "female officers with responsibility equal to that of Spock..."
    
    Have you forgotten "The Menagerie"? Prior to the tenure of Kirk
    and Spock, the Enterprise did have a female first officer (referred
    to as "Number One"). While the real world of TV executives nixed
    the idea when "Star Trek" first came on, the "Star Trek" universe
    has apparently had no difficulty with females in positions of
    responsibility. (But yes, it would have been nice to have a woman
    as Captain or First Officer in TNG...)

    Slight digression:
    
    Maybe this goes in the "sexism" note, but when I first saw the female
    security officer - who was behaving like a twit during the initial
    encounter, just as the rest of the crew seemed to be doing - I thought,
    "Drat, they've put in a Hysterical Female!" And then it occurred to me
    that if a male actor had the same role, I'd just think, "What a twit,"
    not "typical Hysterical Male." So I slapped myself on the wrist and
    accepted things as they were! 
    
    -b

    Well, at least two women had positions of responsibility (chief
    of security, chief medical officer).  A big improvement over nurses,
    yeoman and communications operators (what was Uhuru's rank, anyway?)
    
    G

    Uhuru was a Lieutenant who later did personnel recruiting for NASA.
    
    No kidding!

    	RE:  twits on ST:TNG
    
    	That Klingon guy was a bit of a twit, in my opinion.  Those
    	guys are so quick to draw that he almost shot a hole in the
    	viewer screen when the "whatever-he-was" showed up on it.
    
    	Maybe they should reconsider having declared peace with those
    	hotheads.  :-)  :-)  :-)
    
    						     Suzanne...

    Talk about equality!  Watch for the male red-shirt, er crew member,
    in the mini-skirt!  
    
    			Barbara b.

    We wondered if he was wearing shorts (didn't think he was really
    in a skirt).
    
    Did you notice that McCoy hasn't given up the old style of uniform?
    Notice the pants as he walks away.
    
                Carol

    brother, leave it to this file to ruin an otherwise enjoyable flick!

    	RE:  .17
    
    	Sorry if we "ruined" it for you.  We are one of SEVERAL FILES
    	in DEC that brought this subject up.  You should have "next
    	unseened" past it if you didn't want to hear about it.
    
    							Suzanne...
    

    
    It was pre-ruined, if you want my opinion.
    
    DFW

    Well having seen STARTREK:TNG I will  make my comments.
    
    Enjoyed it. Yeah sure it had faults but its only the first
    episode.
    
    Interesting to me are that the most negative comments in other
    files came about the major female characters and the kids
    on board the ENTERPRISE.
    
    Well as to kids abroad-from my point of view I don't want the
    show to become a LOST IN SPACE,BUCK ROGERS etc. type of kiddy
    show. I hope the writers can prevent this but utilize the kids
    as showing that living and working in space is open to all
    humans(and ailens). Having the strong Captain figure be against it
    can lead to some good shows or bad. It is all up to the writers.
    
    One ouch-all major female characters have typical "female" traits;i.e.,
    Troi is empath,Yar is emotional,Crusher is mom. Troi I can forgive-
    after all I have never met a Betazoid or half Betazoid before.
    I would rather see Crusher as the very skilled doctor than as Wesley's
    mom. Yar as chief of security show not be so quick to shoot them
    up,after all we made peace with the Klingons didn't we?
    
    Interesting enough I have the same comment as someone esle -if the
    qualities that bother me were in the male characters I would 
    accept it. For example I can forgive Lt. Worf almost shooting the
    viewer out for after all he's a Klingon and we all know what Klinons
    are like. 
    
    Ah GENE you did it again. But I wonder how many people will examine
    their prejudices. The ##"$$% media is still saying "Where no man
    had gone before". Hey a space where all can live and work-kids and
    all I like it GREAT BIRD!
    

	For starters I loved it. But I can already feel some of the
	plot lines. The captain and chief medical officer had something
	click but neither of them knows it yet. Number one is hot for the
	medical officer (I can't remember anyone's name yet). The security
	officer is hot for number one. The empath and number one will go
	back and forth never really clearing up their past relationship.
	all sorts of planets and people will throw them all into various
	appropriate and inappropriate love/hate relationships. The kids
	and family members now aboard will provide bodies for "death caused
	by aliens" and other tramatic situations. liesl

    Fianlly saw it last night it was GREAT
    
    Glad to see they didn't get hung up in the hardware the original
    show was relationships of people and situtations this follows that
    line. Looks like tng is going the same way
    

    In the second episode we meet the chief engineer-a 
    very capable woman!
    (The second epidsode also had a lot of the so called women's
    problems surfacing because of the infection that acted like
    alchol. I really felt it was a bit much to have all the women
    when drunk only wanting men and sex! The cheif engineer was the
    only one who didn't get infected. Oh well.)
    

    	Yes, indeed, leave it to some of the people who contribute to
    	this notesfile to "speak before putting mind [or reasearch]
    	in gear".  We, as men, have had to put up with subjegation
    	by women all through previous Star Trek episodes.  WE MEN,
    	have been dominated and objectified by women throughout
    	the series and it's high time we expose this rampant
    	and unwarranted reprisentation of women being stronger
    	than men and inherently more warrant of higher level
    	positions.  Looking over the appended list we see many
    	instances of the writers of this series [mostly women
    	it would seem] presenting a platter full of sexist
    	oriented plots and apparel.  
    
       	Star Trek II Khan in a Cordoba		[Head of GENESIS project]
	Start Trek The Motion Picture		Selected OMEGA woman
    						as 'representative'
   						for "V'ger."
	The Companian				Ambassador [with fever]
    						The Companian was also
    						female and kicked some
    						male butts if I remember.
    	Spocks Brain				Planet *RULED* by women
    	"I am for YOU Kirk"			Woman High Priestess
    						with the semi-Midas
    						touch.
	People of Yanada			Woman RULER
    	Cloaking Device	Caper			Woman Romulan COMMANDOR
	Ambassador Carlos			Woman selected to work
    						with Carlos.
    	
	Michael	MASTER "Men Applauding Star Trek Equal Representation"
    
    

    re .24  a female chief engineer who gets shown up by a 14 year old
    male !  some progress.
    
    And BTW, how come no one ever called Lt. Uhura "Sparks" ?  :-)

    
    
     They way *I* perceived that was a CHILD showing up
     ADULT.  After all, they DID beat that into us a few
     times with some of Wes's lines while plastered.
    
    	But don't let the fog blur your vision.
    
    

    Twas the engineer who finally got the force field down
    with the aid of Number One.
    

	I'm surprised no one has mentioned Lt Yar and the andriod. The entire
	concept of making love to a machine (though he seems to think he's
	more similar to humans than that). Data even trained in what to do!!
	Asimov discusses the same situation in the series about R. Daniel Olvaw
	(not sure how to spell it). There the woman was looked down on and
	considered rather tainted. In STTNG it's done and simply forgotten. 
	Yar acts more like it was a simple indecretion and not the breaking
	of any taboo.  liesl

    Maybe it's not a taboo in that time.
    
    Maybe its not discussed because it's a fantasy(haha-every
    woman's dream-gentle passionate person with all pleasuring
    techniques known!)
    
    There is a note in STARTREK that says too much romance in the
    series-(may have be lust).
    

    Months later.....
    
    Has anyone noticed improvement in 'Tasha Yar yet ?  When the
    series premiered, I thought "Now *there's* something new - 
    a lesbian on the bridge crew." That would have been an inter-
    esting continuation of the series tradition of having minorities
    on the cast. However, it looks as if they backed off that
    possibility. Yar alternates between playing Rambo and daddy's
    little girl. And doesn't make sense either way. The character
    is too hot tempered for security work at any level. She would have
    washed out in any police academy, or as a rookie. 
    
    Troi, on the other hand, has gone from being silly to being a
    valuable crew member, always bringing up points that the rest
    of them forget. And showing more warmth than the rest combined.
     
    (and i'm sorry about the stereotyping)
    
    Dana

    I still find the idea of a hothead as head of security untenable.
    
    Uhura was communications officer, wasn't she?
    
    Boy, (I've forgotten her name, so I'll have to identify her as aaargh)
    Gene Roddenberry's (sp?) wife looks great.  Gives us all hope.
    
    I'm still pining for a Vulcan crew member.
    
    As an irrelevant aside, on the news last night they quoted the White
    House spokesman (male) and the state department spokesperson
    (female). :-) :-)
    

    Majel Barrett (Mrs. R.) played No. 1 in the original pilot, then
    Nurse Chapel, and now Troi's mother. Nice having connections :-)

    re:.33
    
    Barrett also provided the voice for the old Enterprise's computer.
    
    And about your previous comment about Yar...just out of curiosity,
    what made you think at first that she was supposed to be a lesbian?
    
    --- jerry

    I don't mind you thinking she might be gay.  I was hoping for the
    same thing.  I was hoping they would have one of the more "feminine"
    crew members be lesbian, but figured it would be Tasha if anyone.
    Still, some of them could be bi.
    
    In answer to the question "Why Tasha?" it is because she fits the
    stereotype better: short hair, pants, in a traditionally male job.
    I would hope that most, if not all, of us would know that this is
    only a stereotype.  Nevertheless, TV shows often follow stereotypes
    at least part way, and there are, of course, gay women as well as
    heterosexuals who fit the above description.
     
                     Carol

    Speaking of stereotypes, I heard some discussion once that Lucy
    on Hill Street Blues should be a lesbian character.  I found the
    assumption that a strong, together woman was q.e.d. a lesbian
    annoying, not because I'm a bigot about homosexuality, but because
    I resent the assumption that straight women can't be these things.
    (Lucy is one of my all time favorite characters.)  Personally I
    thought they should have left her alone and made Joyce bisexual.
    That would have shaken things up.
    

    Oh, my heart!

    Re: .37
    
    Who's talking about working out problems?  I'm talking about fully
    dimensional characters, as in real life.  Let's discuss the SFPD.....
    

If I remember one of the earlier ST episodes, the security person and the
anderoid person discovered that the anderoid person was constucted with
functioning male equipment.  They discovered this the hard way, as it were.

Hill St. Blues had several episodes with a gay female cop (played by
Lindsy Crouse, whose husband David Mamet wrote the episodes).  She
propositioned Lucey Bates, who angered by the proposition, but eventually
cooled down and became pals with the Crouse character.

There was also a sequence in one of the first years with a bi- male
cop who was forced to come out in order to give evidence against a
mass murderer -- and was crucified by a leering press (with no help
from good old Chief Daniels).

Martin.

    I remember the sequence with the bi male cop, but when did Lindsey
    Crouse's character ever proposition Lucy?  I'm a HSB freak, and
    I thought I saw every episode in the last 3-4 years, especially
    the last season.  I remember the lesbian cop having trouble the
    other way around, from expectations that she would want the men.
    
                   Carol

I thought it was the first sequence she (Crouse) was on the show -- the
next to the last year, perhaps?  Then, she returned in the last year
and she and Bates talked and decided everything was cool.  I could be wrong,
of course.

Martin.

    re .34   .35 had it right - serves me right for applying 20th
    century stereotypes to the 24th century :-) 
    What I meant to imply was that ST:TNG could have portrayed a
    gay person functioning capably on the bridge without getting
    a lot of harassment, where most contemporary shows could not.
    Which would be in the ST tradition of smuggling in new ideas
    under the SF guise.
    ST broke a lot of rules in the 60's and got away with it because
    it was "just science fiction". 
    
    Dana

    About Tasha Yar - I too was led to think that perhaps she is gay,
    not because of her appearance, but because of a scene involving
    her and Troi in "The Naked Now".  I don't recall details, but she
    got into a conversation with Deanna that just dripped innuendo.
    I refuse to let myself believe that big-time TV execs would go out
    on a limb with a series as "visible" as ST:TNG by having a major
    character turn out to be gay.  Simply *scandalous*!  I think per-
    haps that the possibility is there, but that those in charge are
    unsure what to do now, and so are spinning their wheels.  Mean-
    while, Tasha Yar goes nowhere.  Too bad, she's got potential...
    
    Lisa

    Lisa, because ST:TNG is distributed to a number of independent
    stations, NOT a major network, the "big-time TV execs" don't
    really have much input. I think the production team simply
    didn't have the courage to go for it. Maybe they thought a
    Klingon on the bridge was risque enough ?

           <<< THEBAY::THEBAY$DRB2:[NOTES$LIBRARY]STAR_TREK.NOTE;3 >>>
                                 -< STAR TREK >-
================================================================================
Note 171.69                 ST:TNG Character Analysis                   69 of 71
DICKNS::KLAES "All the galaxy's a stage..."          56 lines  30-DEC-1987 08:41
                      -< Major event in ST:TNG - SPOILER >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Path: muscat!decwrl!sun!pitstop!sundc!netxcom!rkolker
From: rkolker@netxcom.UUCP (Rich Kolker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek,rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: ST:TNG ****BIG NASTY SPOILERS***
Message-ID: <607@netxcom.UUCP>
Date: 29 Dec 87 13:08:53 GMT
Organization: NetExpress Communications, Inc., Vienna, VA
Lines: 71
  
    The following is a **MAJOR SPOILER**, and I do not use the term
lightly.  If you wish to read and discuss this article, please put
appropriate spoiler warnings in front of your Note, so as not to spoil
this information for others who do not wish to know at present.  
 

 
    In one of the later episodes this season, Tasha Yar dies.  The
reason for this is a decision by actress Denise Crosby to leave the
series. The series will, with her cooperation, take advantage of this
fact to let her go out - so to speak - with a bang.  I know no details
of the plot that will result in her death. 
 
    Facts end - rumor begins...
 
    Apparently, the reason for Crosby leaving is a disagreement over
promises made when she was hired.  The story is she was promised that
she was going to be one of the principal characters with lots to do.
It has not worked out that way, and she wants to move on. 
 
    Rumors end - opinion begins...
 
    This is a not suprising fallout of the fact that ST:TNG has not
developed into an ensemble show as originally envisioned.  Major and
minor characters are developing (although everything has far from
shaken itself out yet).  Yar is not one of the characters that has
moved to the forefront.  I do not know if Denise Crosby has another
offer, I hope so.  The ground is littered with actors/actresses who
have left successful series to go nowhere (to be fair, there are
counterexamples). 
 
    Back to facts
 
    By the way, counter to what has been written here by many people
(including me) shooting has not concluded on the first season.  They
are up to about episode 19 (give or take an episode, and I do not know
if that is the 19th hour episode, or the 19th of 26 delivered hours
(including "Encounter at Farpoint")). 
 
++Rich
+------------------------------------^----------------------------------------+
|    Rich Kolker                    / \    "Please continue the
|    8519 White Pine Dr.           / * \         petty bickering..."
|    Manassas Park, VA 22111      |     |  
|    (703)361-1290                |  ^  | (..uunet!netxcom!rkolker)
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    	Interesting bit of trivia - one of Denise Crosby's most recent
    movie characters was a lesbian or bi (girlfriend of Indian's girlfriend
    in "24 Hours").
    
    Douglas

    I thought at first that Yar was going to be a strong female
    lead. Knowing some of the Great Bird of the Galaxys thoughts
    I thought she would come to represent the conflicts women feel
    today. And I think that was happening but-she was unbelievable (is)
    as Chief of Security,i.e. her personal conflicts in the way of the
    job.(Or maybe that is too believable for me to admit now) 
    I did not think of her as being Gay but as having conflicts with
    being abused as a child and trying to relate to men as being ok.
    Thus the conlfict or swings between little girl and Rambowoman.
    The episode of her choosing DATA (the android)also made sense as
    DATA was fully male human in respect of function but not male human
    in respect of being "one of those men who hurt her".        
    
    Since the rumour mill has her being killed later on we will not
   get to see the development of the character which to me is a shame.
    
    TROI as a character has grown a lot in the episodes so far.
    
    I do hope there is another strong female role forthcoming if she
    gets killed off. (Are you listening Geno?)