Conference turris::womannotes-v1

	RE: .0

	I don't really have any advice.  You might want to consider
	contacting EEO.  Charges and complaints: 251-1358.  This sounds
	like pretty blatent harrassment.  You might want to start
	a daily journal and document everything in case you ever
	decide to press charges (either through EEO or through the
	legal system).

	However, that might not be the right thing for you.  In that
	case you might have to find another job and get out of the
	situation.  God, it's so unfair.  I really feel for you.
	You know that if you need someone to just talk to, we're here
	for you.  We all struggle with this, only for a lot of us
	it's too subtle to call.  At least you can be more confident
	that the problem is them, not you.

	...Karen

    I'd talk to your personnel rep about this situation, pronto.  They
    may be able to help with the reallocation of work via discussions
    with your manager.  They certainly will want to know about sexual
    harrassment and your manager's insensitivity to it.
    
    I don't see why you have to stay for two years.  When I realized
    I was in a _bad_ situation in Field Support, I left after one year.
    I only stayed that long because they'd paid my relocation expenses.
    I have a friend who made a gigantico mistake in choosing a new job,
    and she left it after six months.  I mean, life is too short when things
    are really the pits.
    

    Wow - just when you think things are getting better....
    
    I was in a similar situation in my previous job.  I was the only
    woman in the whole department - I got the scrap work most of the
    time - bits and pieces.  I finally talked to my manager and supervisor
    and I told them I was bored and that I needed more challenging work.
    There were some good results from it - but they were a bit too late
    - in the mean time I had looked else where and received this job
    at Digital.
    
    The best advice I can give you is report the sexual harrassment
    and use DECs open door policy - if you don't like the results from
    your manager go to personel or his manager.  Keep persuing it -
    DEC cannot afford to lose good women like you!
    
    Suzanne
    
    PS ditto from the previous reply - if you need to talk just call
    or send mail.
    

    	RE:  .0
    
    	Boy, that sounds like a tough situation to be in -- I feel
    	for you, too!
    
    	You might want to check into leaving before your two years
    	are up.  I've heard that others have been able to waive this
    	requirement when they've felt especially urgent needs
    	to make changes sooner than that.  I'd definitely talk to
    	Personnel about it.
    
    	Some years before I joined DEC, I was in a situation somewhat
    	similar to the one you describe.  I was the only woman engineer
    	in a group of 10 (and I was second from the top in seniority,
    	etc.)  My work record was excellent and I was highly regarded
    	by the Chief Engineer as well as my immediate supervisor.
    
    	Then we got a new supervisor.  He changed our work schedule
    	and turned me into the one who filled up the holes for all the
    	other engineers' days off.  I worked a combination days/swings
    	(would go back and forth between days and swings sometimes
    	during the same week), I worked every single weekend without
    	a single exception for over 6 months, and I had different
    	split days off every week.  The other engineers rotated for
    	the other weekend slot (so they only had to work a weekend
    	once every two months while *I* worked them every single week.)
    
    	Shortly before I left the job, I looked at the file my supervisor
    	had kept on me.  Every time I had gone to him to request that
    	I be put on some sort of "rotation" for weekends (or at least
    	be given 2 days off together during the week), he wrote me up
    	saying, "Suzanne is continually asking for special treatment
    	and consideration for being a woman."  <grrrrr>
    
    	After I left the job (for a better one elsewhere), one of my
    	co-workers called me and told me that my "req" hadn't been
    	filled.  The slot had surfaced in another department and they
    	were on a waiting list to be given a req to replace me.
    
    	The Chief Engineer was so bothered by this that he checked into
    	why I left.  The supervisor showed him his file on me, along
    	with the incredibly unfair work schedule for the engineers
    	(showing the blatant discrimination against me.)  The Chief
    	Engineer didn't fire the guy, but he told him that he would
    	have to keep the schedule AS IT WAS and work MY HOURS himself
    	(as well as doing his own job) until a new req could be found.
    	I loved it!!!
    
    	Also, when I went for my exit interview, it turned out that
    	my supervisor had forgotten to report my recent two weeks
    	vacation (we had no timecards to fill out ourselves),
    	so they gave me the two weeks PAY as I was leaving.  I told
    	Personnel about my vacation and they said it was too late
    	to enter it now (but that they would be SURE to inform my
    	supervisor's boss that the department had to pay me an extra
    	two weeks pay because of his mistake.)  :-)

    	Meanwhile, I had a new (better) job in the computer field
    	(which was a direct step in getting on with Digital a few
    	years later.)
    
    	Sometimes justice is served in ways that you least expect.
    
    	Best luck in what you are going through now (and please let
    	us know what happens!)

    What is this "two year requirement" that has been mentioned? I've
    been with DEC for a number of years (5+ the first time, 3+ this
    time), and I've never heard of it.
    

    Personnel policy on internal transfers, Karen:  2 yrs for exempt,
    1 year for non.
    
    But in general a senior person with a good rep and a good reason can
    get that waived...it's a helluva lot easier on mgmt and Personnel to
    let an unhappy person walk early than to have ER problems proliferating
    all over hell's acre. 
    
    						=maggie

    re .0  Schedule time with your manager, give him one, repeat *ONE*
    chance to take your concerns seriously. Inform him that you take,
    not just "feminist issues", but your self, career and job seriously,
    same as any of the men do. Inform him that you will, if not treated
    equally, invoke the open door policy. No ifs,ands or buts. 

    Dana

    And besides, his insensitivity to the concerns of his employees
    is probably something his boss needs to be aware of.

    re .0
    
    You know, your situation doesn't sound that far off from some others
    I've seen at DEC.  Some how, this manager and this employee need
    to be given a scare they deserve, which I think talking to personnel
    and mentioning EEO type things might just do for them.
    
    Has the other woman gotten this message from the boss too?

    Hi,
    
    I work in Personnel....contact your consultant ASAP and document
    everythng including witnesses to any events.  Also I suggest going
    to your manager one more time but it looks like things are already
    out of hand.
    
    If your personnel person doesn't do anything go to EEO or Corporate.
    You have a very just complaint.....don't let this go...managers
    like these need to be reported.....if it happens to you it will
    keep on happening for the next and the next woman manager.
    
    I know it's tough to take a stand - but harassment whether sexual
    or not is illegal.
    
    
    
    

    I'd echo the last (.11) and add that I'd check Personnel to find
    out what your plant is doing (or at least *supposed* to be doing)
    with Human Resource Development.  I also work in Personnel (in 
    a Mfg. plant) and part of our our charter is to ensure that each 
    NPO employee has a development plan.
    
    I was under the impression that Human Resource Development was 
    pretty much a company-wide effort (US, at least), though I have
    no doubt that in many locations, it's more a goal for "someday"
    than a program being implemented today.  In our neck of the woods,
    we spend a good deal of time "beating up" on people who *don't*
    go to training and particularly on managers who haven't put together
    development plans for (and *with*) their people.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Steve
    
    P.S.  I'd especially heed the advice to document everything; when
    you're working up the 'ol chain of command, it's very comforting
    to have "ammo" in black and white. . .

    I believe .8 suggested an approach that will both minimize your risk
    and give you a good chance for success.  You must remember that you can
    win the battle and lose the war.  You should bend over backward to give
    your manager a chance to correct his behaviour, NOT because he
    particularly deserves it, but because he can't say later that you went
    behind his back or that he was unaware of your dissatisfaction. Going
    to him first and having a *very* serious (but non-threatening)
    discussion will give him that chance.  When I say non-threatening, that
    does *not* mean you don't tell him you'll use ODP.  I mean don't
    lose your cool, and if the conversation ends without a resolution,
    tell him calmly and quietly that you're going to make an appointment
    with his manager to discuss the problem.
    
    I would be hesitant to either go to Personnel or to go to EEO unless
    everything else has failed.  Many in management would be antagonized
    by your going to Personnel rather than "keeping it in the family"
    (your own organization).  Going to EEO is guaranteed to have an
    adverse effect on your career, whether with Digital or with another
    company.  I'm not saying you shouldn't do either of these things;
    I'm just suggesting less drastic measures first, such as confronting
    your manager one-on-one, and, failing that, taking it to his boss.
    
    I feel for you.  I've experienced many, many situations where
    *customers* refuse to deal with me as an equal because I'm a woman,
    but thank God it's never happened to me within Digital!  Good luck!
    
    							Pat

    
    	In such a politically motivated atmosphere such as engineering,
    one possibility is just to quietly and effectively find a different
    job within the company. There's quite the opportunity within the
    corporate shell to live just about anywhere in the USA, for example.
    It's open to you now.
    	I've heard of people getting the "black ball" before, apparently
    for no logical or otherwise clearly understandable reason. If you
    ever decide to leave the company, this can be a very bad position
    to be in. Managers and supers have "screwed" more than one person,
    simply out of spite, on their exit interview. Dont let it happen
    to you.
    	Digital offers it's Engineers a wealth of opportunity to work
    in many different diciplines which support many different products.
    There's a lot to be experienced outside of "design". There's better
    real estate prices in different parts of the country. Do some internal
    interviewing. Get out of your current group and leave them and their
    political soup behind. In the mean time, it may take tremendous
    patience and fortitude to contend with your current situation on
    a daily basis. We're all behind you! Eventually, you will win out.
    
    	Joe Jas

              
    .0
    
    BOY!  Can I relate.  I worked for someone in this company who sounds
    exactly like the guy you've described.  I went to personnel, it
    did no good.  I made myself *literally* sick by being upset every day.
    I finally transfered to another job and I am much happier.  I knew
    no matter what, I wasn't going to get anywhere in my previous job.
    By going to personnel it just made my manager hate me all the more.
    He was of the school that if women were going to work (his wife
    didn't of course) they should be nurses or secretaries, NOT technicians
    and no matter how hard I worked, I'd never be good enough to satisfy
    him.  Oh yes, by the way, when I did transfer the manager who was
    giving me such a hard time, gave me a wonderful reference for my
    new job.  Not TOO obvious!  But that's o.k. because I'm happy at my 
    new job and karma will get him someday :^) !!!!!
    
    I'd vote for looking for a new job.  It worked for me.
    
    

    The "minimum-time requirement" is in the P&P book as a safeguard
    against abuse by individuals. Like using a particular position as
    a short-cut stepping stone into something else, or a transferring
    manager taking people with him to a new department or whatever.
    Generally, when a department takes you on, they are investing a
    lot in training or orienting you until you can carry your own
    weight.
    
    It's relatively easy to get around, though, if you can get a
    sympathetic ear in Personnel. It sounds like you have grounds
    for bailing out early.
    
    --- jerry

    Do not look for another job until you are heard!
    
    Document everything in great detail, you will be surprised how
    effective it is when you can say that, "on Monday 29 Feb. 1988
    at 0915 I spoke to Mr. Supervisor about the conduct of Mr.
    John Engineer regarding abusive and sexual harrassement,  Mr.
    Supervisor said that he would take action."  Three months have
    passed and I spoke to Ms. Personnel Rep. and they Called Mr. 
    Boss who said he would investigate and now four more months have
    passed and I have been bypassed for promotion.
    
    Well, you can see the idea,  document everything and get all the
    facts that you can.  Its like law, You have the burden of proof.
    The accused is innocent until you prove them guilty.
    
    Then and only then, Investigate looking for another job.  You will
    fair much better in the new location, or you can stay and ride out
    the present position better.
    
    Good luck, I believe in fair play all around.
    
    Dave

    RE: .17
    
    >                It's like law, you have the burden of proof.
    > The accused is innocent until you prove them guilty.
    
    Dave, I don't think you've been paying attention to some of the
    responses in this, or some other, notes.
    
    In the "real" world, the accused is presumed innocent, until
    proven guilty.
    
    In Digital, the accused is presumed guilty (of whatever offense),
    until he or she can "prove" his/her innocence.
    
      Alan

	RE: .18

	Actually, I suspect that at DEC it is often management
	which is innocent until proven guilty, and the managed who	
	is presumed guilty.  For some reason, the word of the
	manager carries more weight.

	It has also been my experience (both as a supervisor and as
	an individual contributor) that personnel is available
	to support management more than they support the managed.
	
	..Karen