Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    That is an interesting point that you bring up....being on
    the older side I had tended to think that it was the younger
    women who were more radical and that the older women had mellowed
    out a little. But then I don't know how I come over to readers
    in re feminism. Perhaps what we see depends on where we are
    standing.
    
    Bonnie

    
    Interesting! Being on the older side, I too felt it was the younger
    women that were the most vocal re. feminism. 

    Isn't this funny ...
    
    as a "younger" woman, I found myself nodding with .0.
                                                         
    I've rarely felt oppressed in my life, but if I'd grown up (ie come
    of age) in the 50s or 60s I don't think I'd be able to say that.
    

    
I think I would agree with you.  When women are younger they tend to be 
concerned with their families, immediate problems and lives.  Thats how
it should be.  

As we get older, we take a more global perspective.  Our
children are grown (or almost) and we become concerned about issues that
we know will affect their and their childrens future, the world we are
leaving them, the social legacy they have inherited.  The elders of any
society have more responsibility to react to injustices and ....the closer
one gets to death the less one has to lose by standing by principles and 
ethics and fighting for a better world for those loved ones left behind.
Perhaps I should go in record too.  I am 42 and do consider myself to be
a hardcore feminist_:-)_Mary

    I tend to agree with .0, but more for the reasons stated in .3
    ("younger" women have perhaps grown up in a world with a little
    less "oppression") than for the reasons stated in .4.  If I am
    misreading .4, I apologize, but it sort of sounds like "younger"
    women don't give as much of a hoot about what goes on in the world
    as "older" women do, for whatever reason.  That's just not true.
    Just because you don't feel oppression or discrimination does not
    necessarily mean you aren't aware.  It could very well mean that
    it isn't there.

    Before anybody gets upset, don't take my previous reply to mean
    that I don't think there aren't any injustices against women - there
    are.  But I do believe that as time goes on, some are less prevalent
    and are beginning to go away.

    I, too, suspect that you're right (though there are notable exceptions
    in our community:  Ellen Gugel, Karen Sullivan, and Sandy Ciccolini
    spring instantly to mind as younger women who are strong, vocal
    feminists).  There *is* less sexism today...still several orders of
    magnitude too much, but less...than there was when we were coming up.
    Now it's much more subtle, harder to see, and it may be difficult for
    younger women to really get in touch with it precisely because there's
    less of the blatant "You can't do <x>, that's a *man's* job". 
    
    						=maggie

    re: .5,.6  Thanks, Ian.  I felt vaguely insulted by .4, but couldn't
               put my finger on what it was.  You did just that.
    
    I've had to fight less for my rights than women 10-15 years older 
    than me because they had gained so much.  Am I grateful?  You bet.  
    

    I think I've been misunderstood.  I didn't mean to imply that younger
    women didn't care as much as older women but rather that younger
    women often have different priorities.  We focus on different issues
    at different stages of our lives (quite appropriately).  My apologies
    to anyone I've (unintentionally) insulted.

    
    When I was young I was asked to leave my boys with a stranger to
    assist the NAACP (whom I supported) in a project.  I refused.
    My kids always came first with me, ...... I thought about this 
    during lunch and realized that my kids still come first with me.
    I went back and read my reply again and it sounded remarkably
    arrogant.  I've decided that you are (collectively) right and I
    was (singly_:-) wrong...
    				** but love is never having to.....
    						barf, nevermind

    re: ....
    
    Its funny how "perceptions" are. We seem (or at least me) 'color'
    opinions according to our own experiences.
    
    If we look at the "theory" - "One exception disproves the rule"
    - then, within the realm of my personal experiences in observing
    women - and men - feminists - sexists - children - foreigners
    (foreign to any country) - age bears little on whether or not persons
    have ant particular tendency in the light of "wanting what is theirs
    to have".
    
    Several years ago (20 ?) some <dubious facts follow> agency did
    a survey on "What white people want from life, and what Black people
    want of life".
    
    Well, the whites listed the top ten in one order, and these same
    white put THEIR perseptions of what blacks wanted in REVERSE order.
    
    ANd when the Blacks were given the same questionairre, they put their
    top ten in the SAME order as the whites.
    
    I have found, after living in many states, albeit very short times
    for some; and in reading through these files; it appears MOST of
    us (the worlds population) would like the same sort of things as
    everyone else.
    
    Well, I don't think age was a factor, except many would like to keep
    getting older (as opposed to the alternative).
    
	.bob.    

    
    
    
    

    I think the time when we grew up has a lot to do with our attitudes.
    
    When I was 13 (yes, folks, 25 years ago!), I told my father I wanted
    to be an engineer, and he said, "You can't!  A woman can't be an
    engineer."  And that was pretty much true back then.  I became a
    teacher instead, and it was only when I was 28 that I made a career
    switch.  There aren't a lot of women engineers my age around here!
    
    It's been hard to get where I am - prejudice, harassment,
    discrimination, and victimization have all been big stumbling blocks.
     I know I tend to be more "serious" about women's issues than many
    younger women I talk with.

I was thinking of something similar to this basenote myself the other day, when
I was trying to understand my mixed feelings on the Cheryl Tiegs poster note.

I figured that I personally haven't had the bad experiences with sexism that
many of the others have had, regardless of age.  Therefore, I consider myself
ignorant in some of these matters.  If I had to fight for the right to take
college prep. courses in high school, or attend college, or get a good job,
I might be more vocal and aware of the injustices of society.  If I was treated
as a sex symbol, I might be more opposed to the poster, for example.

That's one reason I enjoy this conference so much; I'm learning a great about
other people's realities, and how my reality might be subtly affected in ways
I hadn't noticed before.

Jill

    I agree with everyone who thinks that the times we grew up in influence
    whether or not we consider ourselves to be hardcore feminists.
    
    I'm almost 38 yrs. old and, although not always vocal and hardly
    ever strong, I do consider myself to be a hardcore feminist.  But,
    I have never wanted to have a so-called "man's job", I hate sports,
    and when I was in high school I'm not sure I had ever heard of computer
    engineers.  Just growing up female, trying to make friends, go out
    on dates, get married, be a wife, a mother, and trying to work at
    an office job to get money, has made me feel oppressed.  At first
    I thought it was just the way life is for everybody, but at some
    point I started to notice that it was even worse for women.  A couple
    of examples that come quickly to mind are my ex-mother-in-law trying
    to make me feel bad when I first married because he did most of
    the cooking, and the way women who are thought to be promiscuous
    are called sluts but men are admired for it, and the way it always
    seems to be so much more important for woman to be good looking
    than it does for men.
    
    Anyway, I just wanted to point out that even women who never wanted
    to be engineers, or join an all-male football team can feel pretty
    oppressed at times.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    
    I am 39 is that young or old.  Am I a "hardcore" feminist? Or just
    a mud mixer?
    
    _peggy	(-)
    		 |	The Goddess knows I am the same vocal person
    			I was 25 years ago - and probably be so in 
    			another 25 years.
    
    
    I think that was was born wearing glasses and sprouting feminism
    diatribes.  (Just ask my mother.)
    

    I think I was much more activist in my twenties. I remember getting
    very upset about a lot of issues, not only feminist issues, but
    civil rights and ecology issues. I made some life choices to marry,
    to adopt special needs kids, to buy an old farm, to work...that
    were the out growth of those issues. Now I think most of my emotional
    energy goes into handling the results of all those choices....which
    is why I feel I am less of an activist....but no less a feminist.
    
    Bonnie

    Yes the young women of today have had many of our battles fought
    for us; we have been able to do much without thinking about whether
    or not a woman _should_ do these things.  This often leaves us with
    somewhat less of the black anger we see in our older sisters.
    
    But there is another factor: as we age, we experience more.  I have
    been through more today than I had yesterday, etc.  I have had more
    opportunity to be discriminated against than I had when I was still
    in school.  I think these have given me a cumulated anger: adding
    straws to this camel's back.  Thus I am angrier today than I was
    five years ago.
    
    Furthermore, I was raised to EXPECT, to ASSUME that I was OF COURSE
    an equal.  Every incidence of sexism I encounter is a slap in the
    face, perhaps more so than for a woman who is suprised to learn
    that she, indeed, is capable of living without a husband and work
    as an engineer/whatever.
    
    Lee

    What follows is tangential (and probably frivolous).
    
    Reading this note reminded me of slam books.  Did anyone else ever
    read or write in slam books in junior high school?
    
    The basic form was to get a stenography notebook, leave the first
    couple of pages blank for people to sign in, and then write a question
    on the top of every page all the way through.  (A forerunner of
    notes!!)
    
    People signed in at the beginning, and then answered every question.
    I think the name slam books came from some of the meaner varieties
    like "Don't you hate so-and-so"  and "Who is the ugliest person
    in our school".  Mine had a lot of questions about girls'
    rights and lack of privileges (there was a girls' wood shop club, 8th 
    grade only, called the *termites*--ugh!)  
    
    My slam book wasn't mean.  
    
    Anyway, I had a great fantasy about making a "slam book" for a
    womannotes party and finding out who the hardcore feminists are
    and are not, how old they are, and what they went through that made
    them what they are today!

        Just had this idea for some t-shirts.....
        
        "The best Woman for a job is a Man!"
        
        "When the Goddess created Women, He was only joking!"
        
        "The more I know Women, the more I like my dog!"
        
        In and with humour,
        
        Andy.
        

    
    It's funny, but the way I was raised (only child in the '50's),
    I didn't think much about "men-jobs" and "women-jobs".  My mom taught
    me how to clean a house, cook, and organize closets and drawers;
    my dad taught me how to change tires, use a jacknife safely, light
    matches and start a good campfire.  If I was faced with something
    I didn't want to do, or was afraid to try, I didn't have the luxury
    of "wimping out" because it wasn't a "girl's thing to do".  I was
    told, "C'mon, try it--you can do it".
    
    Now that I am older (36), and teach a lot of teenagers at night,
    I am noticing how girls are in the 80's.  Oh, there's still the
    same silliness and brainlessness we all went thru;  but I hear more
    and more about their plans to BE somebody and do what they want.
    I hear less about the man they want to marry and the kind of wedding
    cake they'll have.  I like to see the progress.
    
    This morning on the way to work I heard that the first EVER black
    girl had been chosen as "Miss Mississippi"--"..not because she's
    black, but because she was the best contestant."  I said, 'Yeah,
    RIGHT' to myself, but it is a landmark of sorts--however small.
    
    Progress in most things comes at a snail's pace, but it comes, thank
    God.
    
    Jane
    
    

    WEll, speaking for us dyed-in-the-wool baby-boomers (you don't get
    any more baby-boomer than 1946) - mostly me, but maybe others out
    there shared the experience.
    
    The following factors probably have to do with our being more vocal,
    or whatever....
    
    1. I really felt in high school that my carrer choices were teacher,
    nurse (ugh), or social worker.
    
    2. I was involved in athletics in high school. There were no girls'
    interscholastic teams because "it was unladylike" (there's that
    WORD again)
    
    3. The boys carried their books down at their sides. The girls had
    to carry them in front, cradled in their arms - much less confortable
    and bad for the back to boot.
    
    There were many of these stupidities in life, and many of us began
    to notice that it plain wasn't fair.
    
    Then too, it was the "sixties" when "issues" and "protest" were
    the thing to do.
    
    In addition, it had become easier to attend college and there were
    generally no problems in finding jobs on graduation. The competition
    was less, and if you graduated you were pretty much assured of a
    job. So- more time to protest the current issue, get involved, etc.
    
    Times have changed. There's a lot more pressure to get the marks,
    get the job, compete in the workplace, etc. Women DO have more choices
    today, and younger women don't realize that things actually were
    WORSE. (Just as we older women don't realize what it was like not
    to be able to vote)
    
    There was a "Kate and Allie" show on last year in which Kate was
    disappointed to realize that a young woman (or maybe a group thereof)
    were not interested in the "issues" of the day - working for women's
    rights, minority rights, etc. She assumed, as I did, and as a number
    of us seem to be....that the young are the "radicals" and we ol'
    fogeys have done our bit and can sit back.
    
    She realized, as I did, that whoever feels the strongest has to
    do the work. If that's us older folk, well, fine....'long as SOMEBODY
    does it.
    
    These things go in cycles. If I live to 80, I'll probably get to
    see the new crop of radicals in fashion. Which isn't to say we're
    not around now, we just aren't "in vogue" as we were in the 60's.
    
    DAwn
    

    RE 349.21)
    
    Dawn, you said
    
    >"Just as we older women don't realize what it was like not to be
    >able to vote"
    
    This is a small tangent, but didn't the 60's make it possible for
    Blacks to vote, in fact, as opposed to in theory?    So, the statement
    above might more correctly state:
    >Just as we older (WHITE) women don't realize what it was like not
    >to be able to vote.
    
    Am I wrong?
    
    Tamar                                
    

    You're right, in principle. Still, didn't male slaves "officially"
    get the vote before we did?? (I'm no historian, so I'm not sure)
    
    I was thinking after I wrote my previous reply - women did not have
    the right to vote when *MY MOTHER* was born!!!
    
    DO you remember hearing women say they voted the way hubby did,
    or they didn't vote because hubby voted (essentially) for them both?
    Seems kinda similar, tho' I think many women abdicated their
    responsibility in the interest of not offending hubby, keeping peace
    in the family, whatever - while the attempted destruction of the
    Black vote was inposed from without.
    
    Dawn
    

        I wrote (a reply which I thought I posted to this discussion,
        but it is no longer here. I may have failed to notice that the
        write had an error or the file may have eaten it.
        
        It said, basically something like...
        
        A couple of months ago I hired a young lady who is one heck of
        an engineer. (Actually, I are just a project leader--I didn't
        actually hire her. I just stood on my supervisor's desk until he
        hired her.) She is a recent college graduate, and thus of a
        distinctly differnt generation than I. Of late we have discussed
        a number of issues that have come up in this file, and her
        reaction has often been surprise that we old fogies are so
        concerned about some of the things that she takes for granted.
        
        Her basic approach seems to be that she assumes that men and
        women work together and that is just another fact of life.
        Another fact that she recogizes that there is a good deal of
        sexism in the world, but she treats it as an anomoly that has to
        be fixed. If I understand her correctly, she seems to assume
        that things work and that when they don't she fixes it.
        
        Inferring solely from this one young lady I would say that the
        younger generation seems extremely willing to demand that
        problems be fixed, that the system be fair, but don't seem to
        either expect it to fail or to look for problems. From this they
        seem to be less angry and less "active" than their older
        sisters. Although less active they are quite forceful when they
        are reactive, when the system is broken. They seem to have
        benefitted from those who have gone before them.
        
        I pointed out that I was active in getting her hired because her
        approach is very much the kind of approach I think is most
        useful, and with which I have most sympathy. It is therefore
        very possible that my sample as well as being small (N=1), it
        may be biased. That her views and basic style are similar to my
        own may not be a coincidence. 
        
        JimB.

    Re .21, I don't mean to nit-pick either but I found your comment
    about the difference between the way girls and boys carry their
    books to be surprising.  I never thought of it before.  Do you really
    think anybody would have minded if a girl carried her books the
    way boys do?  Personally, I think it's more comfortable to carry
    them in front female style.
    
    That business about husbands wanting their wives to vote the way
    they do IS something I've thought about.  My ex-husband and I had
    a big fight towards the end of our marriage because I refused to
    vote for Ray Shamie.  He was really mad that he couldn't tell me
    who to vote for.  
    
    Lorna
    

    re .21,.25:
    
    when I was in 7th or 8th grade, (~1970) there was a "boy/girl test"
    going around. There were various mannerism that were classified
    as either male or female. Some that I remember are:
    
    		- carrying books (boys by the side, girls in front)
    		- hand on hip (fingers in front was one gender, thumb
    			in front the other)
    		- standing up,look at bottom of shoe.(looking over shoulder
    			was girl, putting shoe on opposite thigh, was
    			boy)
    
    The theory I heard why girls carried their books in front was because
    holding them to the side would make their skirt ride up on that
    side
    
                                                   
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                 /
    

    Re: the books digression
    
    > The theory I heard why girls carried their books in front was because
    > holding them to the side would make their skirt ride up on that
    > side
    
    I think it is much simpler than that.  Girls have hips.  If they
    held their books straight down the books would run into their hips.
    Boys don't have this problem.
    
    I did not carry my books at my side like the other boys in highschool
    and I caught some flack for it.  I always carried too many to let
    them hang by my side and I used to like to move fast through the
    halls so I wanted to keep the books away from my legs.  I carried
    my books on top of my forearm set at 90 degrees to my body.
    
    Ever see a paper boy with the strap of his bag going over the top
    of his head and the bag on his back?  I guess you never saw me on
    my paper route.
    
    It is one of the freedoms of being an outcast.  You can do anything
    you want without any fear of being cast out, you already have been,
    they can do no more to you.
    
    Re: .0
    
    If there is a difference due to age it is most likely an artifact
    of the times.  Kids are more conservative these days.  They are looking
    to make a buck rather than change the world.  The college degree
    of choice used to be liberal arts...now it is engineering.
    
    						MJC O->

    Well, regarding books - I would've been much more comfortable carrying
    them down at my side. I *DO* have hips (yes, indeed), and I still
    would've found that more comfortable. 
    
    Gad, there were a whole BUNCH of things that differentiatied girls
    from boys, none of which had anything to do with ...uhm...hormones..
    (Maybe THAT's what ticked me off to begin with) ANother one was
    standing up straight with weight equal on both feet, vs. leaning
    kinda over on one hip, compensating with the shoulder. I guess this
    gave one a Veronica Lake/Lauren Bacall come-hither look, but it
    sure as hell ain't good for the back. (This doesn't negate the male
    leaning-against-wall-with-one-bun, cigarrette-dangling-from-corner
    of-mouth. But that was a sometime posture, not the "Expected" way
    of standing)
    
    Geez, kids today probably carry backpacks or something sensible.
    Better yet, from my teaching day, they probably forego the books
    altogether.
    
    (Anybody remember Green-on-Thursday?)
    
    Dawn
    

< Note 394.28 by VINO::EVANS >
                           -< OH BOY! A Rathole!!! >-

<    (Anybody remember Green-on-Thursday?)
    
	Oh yes, I remember that. I grew up in the midwest, was this
	silliness more widespread than that? How do these things get
	started anyway (I know it wasn't the Enet back then) liesl    

    Re .26, guess what?  According to your test I'm a "girl"!  Well,
    now I know for sure.
    
    Re .27, I, too, have been familiar with the freedom of being an
    outcast at certain times in the past.  Strange how it did have some
    advantages (even if I didn't always realize it at the time).  I
    do appreciate the perspective it's given me at times.
    
    Re .28, in my school it was red on Thursday and it meant you were
    "queer", which at the time I had absolutely no idea what it was
    supposed to mean.   What it really was was an excuse for other kids
    to be mean to you.
    
    As for carrying books, I'm not sure I DID have any hips in high
    school I was so skinny then.  But, I needed both of my skinny little
    arms to carry all my books.  They were too heavy for one arm.
    
    Lorna
    

    In my school, it was "Purple on Thursday".
                                                   
                  /
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                  ) ///
                 /
    

    When Lee got to MIT, maybe by then the rumors had vanished that 
    if you wore a skirt to 3.091 lecture, you'd be called down to sit 
    in the front row.  (I never verified this--I took the easy :-) way
    out with organic chemistry.)
    
    When I was 8 and wanted a responsibility and heard that a paper
    route was open, I called but was turned down (I had to interrupt the man on
    the phone after he said "Well, son"; I had introduced myself as
    "Lisa" which has had me wondering for years how many boys named
    Lisa he'd met).  My littlest sister, who's 12 years younger, got a
    paper route with no problem, when it was her time.
    
    I headed east for school, because it was the one I'd wanted to go
    to ever since I'd first read of it (in a book from one of the Time-Life
    series, "The Engineer").  I've always been surrounded by engineers
    so being one too just seemed right.  I didn't know any female role
    models in engineering, although I my family had women who worked
    with engineers, and nobody really condemned any partiality for
    technical subjects in my behavior.  [My mother did mention her dropping
    out of trig class in high school because she was the only young
    woman and was somewhat ostracized; things were better in
    my high school.]
    
    Am I old?  Gee, I don't think I'm anywhere old *enough*.  Certainly
    not to have earned the honor "Old".  I've not proved myself worthy
    yet.                                                 
    
    But things aren't done yet.  Leadership positions are still
    overwhelmingly populated by white males; even freshmen enrollment
    in technical fields doesn't match population percentages.  Because
    these still aren't seen as as viable careers for others, because
    some people need more support from role models, because many are
    still told "No" or are urged to develop more "natural" talents.
    
    Nonsense.  We've only just started.

    No, No, No...... it's Black and Red on Friday.

    Yellow and brown on Thursday!
    
    This is a bit of a rathole but I personally believe that there
    is something like a communications net work with children
    and teenagers that spreads these things down the generations
    from older child to younger. 
    
    I was amazed when my children started coming up with the same
    jokes and games and taboos that I had had at the same age....
    and they all learned them from the older kids and passed them
    on the younger.
    
    and did you all know that the rhymic chant "na, na, na nay, na"
    is found among children all over the world different syllables
    but always as a "put down".
    

    Bonnie

    No, it's wearing *YELLOW* on Thurdsay.
    

    RE:  .19
    
    Sorry, but I do not see any humor in your statements.  In fact I
    am confused (where is the joke?) and angry (your remarks seem to
    imply a hatred for women).  Did I miss something???!!!
    
    Melanie

    Turnabout is fair play. All the statements in .19 were reversed
    from 'feminist' bumper stickers. Which weren't terribly funny,
    either.

        RE: .36, .37,  [RE:.19] - 
        
        No, I didn't think they were too funny either, but figured that
        the reaction to  their reversal might be interesting, which was
        why I tried to  indicate  that  humour  was  involved here, and
        *not* antipathy or hatred!
        
        Andy.

    On the contrary, things like .19 *are* considered very funny: it's
    a reason I don't read net.jokes.

    Red knee socks on Thursday (Catholic school).
    
    In Gloria Steinem's book, she talks about the "younger generation"
    of women (those of college age, specifically) not being very radical.
    (I'm writing from memory, so please bear with me...)  I believe
    that it was when she went to her college reunion; anyway, some of
    her contemporaries were lamenting that young women were not as radical
    as they were and it concerned them.
    
    Steinem wasn't too worried.  As she pointed out, men are likely
    to be at their most radical in college, then they "outgrow" that
    as the "establishment" hands them things on a "silver platter."
    For women, they may get involved in "causes," but life for them
    personally is about as "equal" as it's ever going to be.  As women
    get older, they start getting smacked with sexism surrounding the
    "working world," the institution of marriage, health care, pregnancy
    and child-rearing, credit, single parenthood and so on...and THEN
    they become feminists.
    
    Made (makes) sense to me.
    
    Tracy
    
    

    An interesting quote I found in the July/August BusinessWeek Careers:
    
    "A lot of women in their midtwenties assume older women have won
    most of the battles, but it's not true.  Their attitude is that
    older women have been the shock troops, and all younger women have
    to do is climb over the prone bodies.  But I think what has happened
    in the corporate world is that younger men are even more resistant
    than their predecessors.  So young women will be zapped two ways:
    by their own higher expectations and by their male peers."
    
    Paints a grim picture...
    

    
    I haven't necessarily seen this to be true. If anything the younger
    males are more empathetic, and more likely to view women as true
    co-players than older men. I wonder where they are getting their
    samples...?
    

    As a young woman planning on entering a male dominated field, I
    can say that I have found the men my age to be accepting of women
    in equal positions.  However, they still "joke" about women being
    inferior (mostly to get a reaction).  This concerns me because I
    am hoping that one day those jokes won't even come up.  When it
    gets right down to it, though, EVERYBODY respects ANYBODY who works
    hard and gets things done.
    
    
    Debra
    

    re last few:
    
    While I have seen more acceptance by younger men of women in industry,
    there is at the same time a good percentage of young men who seek
    to emulate older males (very understandable), but they sometimes
    take on the old, undesirable ways and those women they treated as
    equals in college don't seem as "equal" once they're all in the
    business world together.
    
    	-Ellen

    re .42
    
    This is what they say about younger and older men:
    
    "You may think men your own age are different, and men under 30
    are freer of sex-role stereotypes and speak more in terms of equality
    than those in any other age group.  But they don't always live up
    to what they say.  They expect their dates or wives to have careers,
    but they also expect those careers to take a second place to their
    own.  They expect to find women as collegues in entry level jobs,
    but many still become angry or fearful when they have to compete
    against them.
    
    Most older, successful men find it hard to accept women in the business
    world because they grew up when that world was truly male.  You'll
    find that many are more genuinely supportive of your hopes and
    ambitions, however, because it takes a man who is relatively sure
    of his own competence, his own masculinity to feel and behave
    positively about women's quest for equality."
    
    The author of this article is Anthony Astrachan who wrote 'How Men
    Feel: Their Response to Women's Demands for Equality and Power'

    I agree to this in the sense that ANY person who is confident with
    their own abilites will not be threatened by others, be it man or
    woman, younger or older.
    
    

< Note 394.45 by AKA::TAUBENFELD "Almighty SET" >

    re .45
    
	Yes, sometimes the acceptance of the woman's career is just
	lip service or because it's now 'cool' for 'your woman' to
	'be something'; men are even competing about *this*, now.
    
>    Most older, successful men find it hard to accept women in the business
>    world because they grew up when that world was truly male.  You'll
>    find that many are more genuinely supportive of your hopes and
>    ambitions, however, because it takes a man who is relatively sure
>    of his own competence, his own masculinity to feel and behave
>    positively about women's quest for equality."
    
   	It's also easier for the older/senior-position male to mentor
a female because it's still an *unequal* relationship, and in most cases
she is not a candidate for *his* specific position. There's also an
established, comfortable father/daughter paradigm in the society whose
rules can be applied.

	Also, among the younger generation, the demographics/economics
of the baby boom have made competition for everything - jobs, promotions,
houses, good daycare - more intense in general.