Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    You may want to add this note to the topic on anger.
    
                 Carol

    There are few things at work that require *real* anger. I can't
    think of much (other than the things that would get someone fired
    anyway) that would cause me to yell or scream at a co-worker.
    
    
    I used to work with a man who literally turned red in the face and
    screamed at me because I had replaced a library module (that I was
    responsible for) and he did not like the change. A year later after
    I had moved to Colorado a company called and said they were
    interviewing him and wanted to know what I thought of him. I told
    the truth. He was good technically but I would never work with him
    again and I explained why. They did not hire him. I will do the
    same for anyone inmature enough to act this way at work. BTW, I
    did not yell back and just walked away while he screamed. 
    
    Male or female makes no difference, manners are important even when
    you are angry. Liesl 
      

The approach I would go for is two fold;

1.	Identify and discuss the different 'persona' that we use when 
	communicating with other humans.

2.	Understand how stress works and causes a build up of 'anger energy' 
	within us.

Once you understand stress you can recognise the signs and 'channel' your 
built up frustrations in a more positive way. Using an understanding of the 
different 'personna' we can learn which 'persona' best fits a situation in 
order to avoid conflict situations.

Sorry for the over simplification but I am short of time,

Dave.

In understanding the various 'persona' that we use, it must be remembered 
that our personalities (as others see us) are made up of the combination of 
these 'basic components'. All though it is abnormal to be more than say 70% 
of any one 'persona' it IS OK to be different (see my personal name).

Dave.

    RE previous - I can see I wasn't clear about what *real* anger may
    be. Anger is a PASSIONATE EMOTION. There is not really much place
    for that at work (unless the company is doing something terrible
    like putting toxic waste in the river etc). 
    
    I too was raised in a family that did not have yelling matches.
    My folks were of the 'leave room when there is a confrontation'
    school of thought. Obviously that has formed my behavior since I
    do the same thing if possible. Thats not really all bad either as
    much is said in anger that is best left unsaid. 
    
    But back to the topic. Most arguments at work are rather mundane
    disagreements over style or form. This does not justify yelling
    and turning red. Besides being totally unprofessional it creates
    resentment and fear. Not very good for the work environment. 
    
    There is not a man at work that can place me in the same rage my
    husband can because I don't care about them in the same way. I care
    about what Ray feels towards me so my responses to him are much
    more emotional. I don't want or need that same intensity at work.
    If someone tries to force it on me I can wait till they are rational
    to continue the discussion.
    
    There is an old saying that revenge is a dish best eaten cold. So
    if someone at work tries to get you angry - "don't get mad, get
    even". You can't think clearly if you've given in to rage and when
    people are fighting little gets acomplished till they settle down.
    
    liesl
    
    
    

re .8:


>    Anger is a PASSIONATE EMOTION. 

I would say it's an aggresive outburst.

Dave.

    No, the aggressive outburst is a way -- and only one way -- of
    expressive anger.
    
    In the group where I work, most (but far from all) of the anger I see
    falls into two categories: 
    
    1. Unexpressed anger. Someone asks for something in relation to a 
       project. Someone else thinks this request is unreasonable but 
       instead of pointing out why it's unreasonable or trying to work
       through the problem, the second person says "sure," then goes 
       back to the office and simmers for a while. Odds are that later
       on he or she will say nasty things about the first person over
       coffee, or be uncooperative later on, as subtle ways of getting
       revenge. Most of the time when the first person finds out what
       the problem was, he or she is astonished that the second person
       didn't say something about it at the time. 
    
       This is not good for group morale. 
    
       I haven't noticed any difference between the sexes -- men and
       women I work with both seem to do this frequently. It's like
       they don't even know they're angry.

    2. Misplaced anger.  Somebody reacts not to what was actually said
       but to what he or she thought was said, or to something that
       happened the night before, or to something that reminds them
       of the way their father used to treat them when they were growing
       up. This tends to lead to the kind of red-faced shouting described
       earlier; I have noticed this more often in the men around here 
       than in the women, though it's by no means exclusively male.
    
    Because of this, I think one of the more important things to discuss
    in your rap session is how to tell when you feel angry and how to
    get control of that anger rather than letting it burst out at
    inappropriate times and in inappropriate ways. It's not wrong to
    be angry at someone who takes your parking space or who wants you
    to finish a project three weeks earlier than planned so she can
    go on a vacation.  But just yelling is not going to get much in
    the way of results in either case.
    
    (I know -- I'm not very good at either identifying or controlling
    my anger . . . )
    
    --bonnie
    

    I get angry a lot.  I work hard at not showing it in non-productive
    ways at work.  Sometimes I have to grab a supportive friend and
    go take a walk and allow myself to express anger during the workday
    because it comes out in other nasty ways if I don't.
    
    I can deal with direct anger ok, and prefer it to the "passive
    aggressive" style which Bonnie described.
    
    If someone else is angry with me, I would much rather have them
    sit down, ask me to just listen until they are done (after which
    time I can respond if I want), and tell me what is going on.  I
    hate it when people appear to agree on the surface, and then go
    complain/act out/simmer in silence/bitch to other people about me.
    
    I did a lot of work in therapy on learning to accept my own anger
    and not be frightened of it, yet learn to express it in ways that
    are not destructive.  I'm still working on applying that!

    digression...
    Now that there are two Bonnies in womannotes we are going to
    need to make some distinctions - how about bonnie for bonnie randal
    shutzman (as she signs her name that way) and Bonnie for me -
    or Bonnie S and Bonnie R (me) we both even have the same names -
    maybe I should just sign my name bj -
    sigh......
    
    
    when it comes to temper I seem to have my Scots-Irish ancestors
    tendancies....I am a quick flare up and often just as quick over...
    
    my worst times to be angry are right after work, or when I have
    been cleaning and have a nose full of dust....when I am not over
    tired, allergic, or upset with my kids I am seldom angry, unfortunately
    my kids see a lot of me when I am any one of the three.....
    
    I wish there was a patience pill
    
    Bonni{ (Reinke)  

    Hi Folks, new voice in the crowd here.  Normally I'm a cheerful person.
    Typically I question things I don't agree with, but I don't take it
    poorly when I lose.  This week, though, I really needed lots of work
    hours to accomplish some things as the project nears integration test.
    So when I read a mail message commanding my presence at six hours of
    unrelated procedural-type training, I thought No Way, and sent thru
    channels a sensibly-worded statement of why I needed the time.  Later
    came a @all.dis message stating that *all* engineers were expected to
    attend.  For some reason I really blew my cool.  First, I put on my
    jacket to leave, but then I thought that would be letting them win,
    because I still wouldn't get anything done.  Instead I found myself
    yelling, at the very top of my voice, "THIS PLACE SUCKS!"  Interesting
    reactions:  One person clapped, some said things along the line of "way
    to go", one said he was blown out of his seat, at least one was
    embarrassed, and I suspect most thought I'd really done it this time. 
    Especially the management types in the nearby conference room.
    
    A little while later came the dispensation, "You do not have to
    go".  
    
    I really would not recommend this to anyone as a strategy, nor do
    I intend a repeat performance.  But it's nice to know that the concerns
    I was reacting from were appreciated and responded to.  
    
    So here's to all of us very human people trying to make our way
    thru a complex world.  Thanks.
    
    						- Dotsie

    As I was reading over the notes, I was thinking about how I respond
    to anger.... and it depends on where I am (work vs. home).
    
    I tend to be an emotional and verbal person so when something makes
    me mad, I usually don't take the time I should to calm down. 

    At work, if I'm annoyed I found the best way for me to handle it
    is to compose a memo while I am still mad. It allows me to vent
    my feelings, but gives me a safety valve because I don't send
    it out until the next day, after I have had a chance to read it
    over and be calmer. If it's a situation where several co-workers
    are involved, we tend to have gab sessions over coffee or over the
    cube walls. Then it seems all of us vent frustration.
    
    At home, when I am mad, again I try to make myself wait before I
    say anything. I found that sorting laundary is great - I can throw
    things around and be violent, but how much damage can a sock do?
    If I'm in a bad mood, I also will warn my SO, so he knows it that
    it's not him I'm mad at, just the world in general. 
    
    I also argue out-loud with myself. I've had plenty of arguements
    with people that they never knew about, because they weren't around.
    I find that allows me to vent steam and say the wrong things without
    having anyone hear the wrong things... I argue alot in the car -
    no one hears me then.... though it must look funny to the passers-by.
    
    If I'm really mad and haven't been able to vent steam or things are
    really peaking, (I can think of about 4 times in my life) I punch
    something solid. So far it's always been a wall and luckily I haven't
    damaged anything too badly yet (me or the walls). Whatever the reason,
    that physical release is just what I needed, and I feel the anger
    in me fade.
    
    I do believe that prevention is better, though. One of the main ways I
    use to keep from getting mad is too take life a lot easier than I used
    to. I try not to let the little things upset me anymore and also
    try to always see the lighter side of a situation.... but, whether
    it's the Irish temper or the German stubbornness, I do still have
    more "moments" than I would like to...
    
    I do like the idea of "patience pills"!
    
    janet b.

    re: .13
    
    Yes, I am always gratified when someone is cool-headed and kind
    enough to extract the piece[s] of information from my angry outbursts.
    Perhaps that is one way to deal with anger in general; find a good
    friend who will do that for you (and perhaps do the same for them).
    I find if I hold the anger in, I don't learn anything, because I
    am not forced to look at my anger. I can deny it later (who, me?
    I'm cool. I'm cheerful. I'm friendly [hey honest, in real life,
    sometimes I am!]). 
    
    So, is anyone out there willing to read my angry replies, so I don't
    have to post them??? I'd do the same for you. This is an honest
    suggestion. Mail to the above.
    	Mez

    Once my mom threw a birthday cake at a wall when her boyfriend did
    something rotten (the details escape me).  She said it was not the
    slightest bit satisfying, just went PLOP.  Not like the great smash
    of china thrown in the sink...
    
    Lee

    
    I remember once when my sister and I had been arguing for hours
    about something and I was really angry with her. I had isolated myself in
    the kitchen to get away from her and make something for supper.
    Just as I had finished cooking she came down around the corner and
    grabbed a piece of the steak off my plate. I just reached over and
    threw the glass of water at her and soaked her. After I first did
    it I couldn't help but laugh. It was a little hard to explain the
    puddle in the kitchen when mom came home though......
    
    
    Debbi

    Anger has not been one of my favorite emotions to express.  I have
    a bit of fear in letting it out.  The last time I let my anger show,
    I nearly got my sister arrested for falsifying her drivers license
    to get into a bar.  My anger was not AT her but AT my parents who
    were in the process of getting a divorce.
    
    I go to counseling now and I can fully express (verbally, with tears,
    with punches (to the wall)) my anger and no one gets hurt.  But,
    *I* get my release that I need and become more aware of what I need
    to do to correct the situation that angers me.
    
    We all get angry at times and it is important that we realize *how
    to* effectively deal with this emotion.  If something angers you
    about a person and it affects you in a negative way, you should
    confront that person positively, state that "what they did" has
    made you feel angry and that you want to work out a solution.  Period.
    Now that person has the option of working with you or continuing
    to make you angry.  In that case, the other person has the problem
    and you have to deal with letting the anger go.   Remember, we are
    all responsible for our happiness and one of the ways to be happy
    is to let anger go.  If not, it eats away inside you physically
    and mentally.  Take it from me, I know.
    
    If anyone would like to discuss this topic more fully off-line,
    I will be glad to share with you what I have learned in my counseling
    sessions.  They have been a big help to me.
    
    One more thing, I am an Adult Child of an Alcoholic and it is proven
    that these children have hidden angers that come out in very different
    ways than those children not brought up in alcoholic homes.
    
    Think about this (those of you who know what I'm talking about):
    growing up with an alcoholic mother and a (mentally) abusive father
    (because he was the co-alcoholic) 'caused me to supress ANY feeling
    that would get in the way of balance in the family.  I played the
    hero role for a long, long time and I *had* to do everything because
    I *felt* that if *I* didn't get it done, no one would and that would
    mean caos (sp?).  So, in reality, for most of my life, *I* was used
    and in some ways, if I allow it, I still feel used by my sisters.
    But, therapy is helping me deal with this anger and I am starting
    to let things go.
    
    Miracles happen every day.....
    
    Cathy
                          

    BTW, my parents separated after 31 years of marriage and I was 23
    years old.  That was at the same time that my mother admitted her
    alcoholism and began therapy.  All of this during the past 3 years.
    
    I'll be alright.....CT

    I was engaged to an identical twin, Renee, and I was amazed
    at the interaction between these two!!!  Granted, they were
    guys, but they were SUPER identical (hence the concept of
    marrying one never seemed to be a very good idea) and they
    NEVER got physically or verbally mad at each other.  Anthony
    would get ticked off at Arthur, and gently chastize him, but
    Arthur would NEVER say a hot word against Anthony.
    
    I always ended up in the middle because *I'D* get mad at
    Anthony for something and Arthur would put me down for getting
    angry because his brother didn't deserve it.  Yes, he DID
    deserve it and I had every right to get angry...
    
    I stopped beating my head against the wall a few years later..
    We're still very good friend{ (up until I got married anyway -
    he hasn't spoken to me since that) but their angre transcends
    any comprehension I have about it...
    
    And I'd venture a guess and say that emotions among twins must
    be of more complex type!!!
    
    I'm afraid, tho', that I don't handle anger well.  If it's superficial
    anger, I just blow up and get it over with.  Took me lots of time
    to learn that.
    
    But the deep stuff just smolders, I'm afraid.  My mother used to
    slap me when I got angry.... anger was a bad thing (she genuinely
    believes that) and showing it is only done by a bad child.
    
    Not one of Mom's nicer legacies I'm afraid.
    
    Bugs
    
    

    I was always told not to hold my anger in.  When highschool started
    I became more self confident.  I found I wasn't nearly as angry
    as I had been before because I was telling people how I felt before I let
    it build up inside.  That's the best way I can think of for avoiding
    anger.
    
    Unfortunatly this formula doesn't always work.  Usually after 2
    or 3 months, things will have built up enough to effect me.  They
    are usually small things that I wouldn't notice until they
    were combined with other small things.  Last week was the 3 month
    climax.  Why I blew up is too ridiculous to discuss, but I ended
    up screaming obscenities into the maintanence man's answering machine.
    I released so much emotion I was shaking for the next 2 days.  But,
    I apologized to him and I'm ready for another 3 months.  Boy, answering
    machines are great.
    
    By the way, an excercise bike also helps.  I went about 3 minutes
    as fast as I could possibly go, and there was little anger left.