Conference turris::womannotes-v1

re .1:

	How nice of you to monitor this file and offer up your opinions,
do you really have the power to delete a conference?

Dave.

    Re .2, I'm sure he means delete it from his own file, don't you?
    I would think he'd have as much right to monitor the file and comment
    on it as anyone else.
    
    Lorna
    

    I went an looked, and as far as I was concerned, there wasn't anything
    in there worth commenting on...it was all useless trash!!
    
    cin
    

    
    
    	"Where ALL the fun is" ????
    
    					ho hum....
    
    
       Conni
    

        As I said there in my introduction... it appears to be mildly
        amusing.  That's OK, since as far as I can tell, its only
        purpose is to be mildly amusing.  I doubt if I'll bother
        to read it for long, but who knows?
        
        As far as "fun" goes, WOMANNOTES is a lot more fun than MEN.
        But then, not everyone enjoys thinking...
        
        	/dave

    I think it's great! Who knows what it might settle into. Sort of
    like 2001; the primordal soup!

    
    Men I have figured out.  Women remain a mystery.
    
    Dave Wall

    RE: .0
    
    Who added the "*" to the note?  I thought the name of the conference
    was supposed to go there as opposed to the name of the moderator.

- Vikas

        .7: if you are serious in .7 here, then MEN is not at all
        what you intended, as there has not been one entry thus far
        in the conference which can reasonably be considered serious.
        Although I will readily admit that few can truely be considered
        amusing, either...
        
        On the other hand, I have the distinct impression that .7
        was not intended to be entirely serious, in which case I
        should point out that when you are directly flaming people
        with humorous intent, it's less than polite not to include
        a smiley icon or something to that effect.
        
        	/dave

    I think the concept is GREAT!  Granted, the men were a
    little slow to "venture into the water" so to speak,
    but they'll get around to serious topics eventually.
    
    It should be noted that I don't, and never have, supported
    equality for women-I've always stood up for equality for
    all people regardless of gender.  
    
    I enjoy the women's topics; I also spend a large portion
    of my time with men, and would like to learn more about
    their concerns, interests, etc.   Maybe we can learn to
    be better friends thru better understanding...
    
    Boy, I'm not usually this serious!  Actually, I usually write
    notes to myself on a little pad with the slogan: "The more I
    know men, the better I like my dog"-men will always be a mystery
    to me!!
    

I suggested that people read "The Male Machine" by Marc Feigen Fasteau.

(I didn't tell the boys that there's an introduction by Gloria Steinem.)

That conference seems to be inaccessible now tho...

/john

        .14: Yes, John, maybe there's hope for it after all...  we'll
        see.  I was in the middle of reading the replies to your
        note when it went down.  
        
        	/dave

     
     re .16:
     
     Were you joking when you wrote Note 17.0 in this conference?
     
     --Mr Topaz

    re: 90% of all replies to this topic  
    
    	Where are all the so-called "compassionate" and "understanding"
    people of the notesworld?  Is this conference Soapbox II?  From
    all the rantings and opinions of all the "professionals" in this
    conference, I'd say you all have pretty short vision.  Oh, and I
    love the next topic....My God, have you all no taste for something
    new?  Give it a bit of time, and don't be so *(*^$%^* quick to 
    judge something which I see MOST of you haven't yet contributed
    to just yet.  If you think you can do better by enhancing our fledgling
    file, then GO FOR IT!  Otherwise, please keep your notes on the
    nuetral side!                       
    
    						Phil
    

For all those quick to pounce, take another look, you will find
some serious topics.

Dave.

P.S. But the humour's still there.

    Too quick to condem? Judgement based on only a couple of topics/
    replies?
    
    I started off in .2 by saying that so far it was a lot of BS. There
    were tens of entries when I looked. All that I said was I would
    watch to see if it would get REAL. Its still tainted, in my opinion,
    and that inhibits me from attempting to get into a discussion that
    looks like it might have serious intent, but is open to humorous(?)
    sniping from others. Whether the moderator likes it or not, the
    tone has been set and will take quite a lot of work to change.
    
    I guess part of the problem is this conference. Since this one is
    run so well and the participants obviously caring, I guess I hoped
    for better things in MEN.
    
    Bob Mc
    

re .22:

	Hey! I like the company, conversation and opinions of women
too, otherwise I wouldn't be here.

Lets talk analogy; When I go to a meeting before everyone's arrived we
have a laff and settle down before the 'serious' business, but serious
business _does_ take place. Sometimes in these serious meetings someone
makes a joke, not always good or appropriate, but that dosn't write off
the whole meeting!

When I want to talk about things important to me, I don't want to go
somewhere where the mood is poker faced and uptight, I want to feel
comfortable and relaxed, there _is_ a place for humour in any serious
note.

Dave.

>there _is_ a place for humour in any serious
>note.


Hear hear Dave, after a frivolous start, whilst feet were found so to 
speak, it has now settled down to interesting discussion. I *do* believe it 
will be a useful and effective forum.  Male issues are rarely discussed 
anywhere, it is difficult in this society, to develop an anti-sexist outlook, 
*and* retain pride in being who you are. If that file helps this process even 
a little then I'm all for it.


Jerry

    
    I have not been able to access the MEN conference, is it still at
    ZEPPO::MEN ??
    
    MR. QUIROGA...
    

    Yes, its still there. Typ SHO ERR and you will see "Network partner
    exited". That indicates that there are too many connects and you
    were rejected. Keep trying or wait until an off hour.
    
    Bob Mc
    

        It *is* getting a lot better, quickly.  I fail to see why
        everyone was getting so insulted.  What was there yesterday
        was mildly amusing but hardly substantial or very interesting,
        and I simply said so.  Today it's different.  That's great.
        
        It got off to a bad start, and I'm glad to see it improving.
        There're some interesting and serious topics going on, and
        the humor isn't quite as, well, "overpowering".  Though I
        still wish people would use smiley faces more... different
        people can have radically different problems, and sometimes
        its difficult to tell if a given reply is really serious,
        though it might seem like juvenile humor to me.  Some real
        problems may get overlooked this way, if people don't get
        more responsible about their humor...
        
        	/dave

    Well I can't access the file.  I keep getting
    "Network Object Unknown at Remote Node"
    
    And I used KP7 to add it!  Has it been deleted?
    
    Sandy

    hey if this is womannotes
    
    how come all theses guy names in here?
    
    Mr. Kerry
    

    because the women are tolerant....? 

    did I open a can of worms
    

re .28:

Well thankyou very much for your daily report.

>        though it might seem like juvenile humor to me.  Some real
>        problems may get overlooked this way, if people don't get
>        more responsible about their humor...
        
Bullshit!

Dave.

    
    I am new to notes and have been reading this womannotes conference
    for the last month or so.  There have been heated discussions,
    certainly... sometimes among women, sometimes between men and women,
    but in almost every case, personal attacks were avoided.  While
    a controversial view point might receive a barrage of verbal attacks,
    it has struck me that it was almost always the ideas and not the
    people who were being attacked.  I have not felt that same respectful
    treatment of one another with regard to this latest discussion around
    the addition of the MEN's conference.  I am opposed to restricting
    men or anyone from contributing to this conference.  I would like
    to respectfully ask, however, that the men (and perhaps some women,
    too) who wish to engage in verbal warfare about whether or not the
    new MEN's conference is {REAL} or {BULLSH*T} would do so in that conference.
    I have personally found this latest series of exchanges quite
    disturbing.  As I mentioned before, I am new to NOTES, so maybe
    this is common practice to critique other conferences, but it just
    strikes me that the tone of these exchanges has been so much angrier
    than any other I've read in WOMANNOTES.  Any other opinions?
                                              

    I agree with .36.  It is disappointing to see so much discussion
    devoted to MEN when this is WOMANNOTES.  Let those discussions 
    occur in MEN.  Seems the real focus will be lost and new people
    who would possibly have some honest, interesting opinions to 
    expression would hesitate to write in WOMANNOTES.  Also, it 
    really isn't fair to make such quick judgements without giving
    the NOTE time to develop.

>	where we grew up, _real_ men would discuss "men"
>    at a respectful distance from "women"

Was that a sexist remark?

     re .41:
     
     > re .40:	Was that a sexist remark?
                 .
                 .
     > We hereby apologize to any offended woman noters...
     
     Are you suggesting that the only people who might be offended by
     sexist remarks are women?  That, in itself, is sexist.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    re:  42
    
    Touche!
    
    Carole
    

I've been out sick for what seems like years... and I stumbled into
MEN and then came back in here...

And I'm amazed at the similarities between the start of MEN and the
direction that this specific topic has taken.

In MEN, the first few notes (maybe 10 or so) are all one-liners comprising
of CAN YOU TOP THIS?

No surprise, I thought.  They're uncomfortable and they're all kidding each
other, pulling the same old 'punching-out' technique I've seen men employ
when they're uncomfortably about showing emotion...

But, then SOMEONE said something meaningful about FATHERS... and someone
else opened up!!!

And lo and behold!  There's real thought going on in there and emotion...
and feelings... and now opinions are getting expressed...

Looks like a notesfile on it's way to being a legit act!!

But it sure didn't start out that way.....

FLAME ON

Mahler, I object to your heavy-handed attacks of sarcasm in this topic and I 
really object to your lack of dealing with the criticisms made here....
You're taking them all very personally....

FLAME OFF

Obviously MEN is your conference (just go in and look at the moderator's
privs in that conference and you'll see who owns the file!) and you
are disappointed, maybe hurt, and downright angry at the folks who have
criticized you....

But you are taking the same escapist tactics here that made the first
few notes in your conference so ineffective.

Why do you attack, then run??  One-liner abusive comments are not getting
your point across!

Are you feeling threatened?? Maybe not taken very seriously?? Are we
reducing your effectiveness there?  Do you want to be a peer of WOMANNOTES
and you're feeling that we won't let you??

Drop the guard.... tell us how you FEEL!

Don't blow me off with a one-liner and expect me to sympathize or come
around to your way of thinking....

Personal Opinion:  You could greatly increase serious particpation in
that file if you chalked the notes at the beginning up to experience and
deleted them.  They say absolutely nothing good about you... and they're
incorrectly painting you up as superficial machismo blowhards...

Bugsy

    
    
    
    			NOT CONTENT FREE
    
    

    The conference originally mentioned in this note no longer
    exists....interested readers can try tamara::mennotes.
    
    Bonnie J
    moderator