Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Well sometimes I say I want a hug, sometimes I will give a hug
    and get a hug back.

    I find the line to be pretty fuzzy sometimes, cast_in_concrete other
    times.
    
>    Is it
>    something that you've always been able to make perfectly clear to
>    your partner? 
    
    No.  Two reasons: 1) I didn't always _know_ what I wanted, 2) I
    thought sex was like the movies, ie all subliminal communication
    with no explicit talking.
    
>    Is it something that you kinda hope s/he'll figure out?
    
    I always hoped they'd figure it out, but they really can't be expected
    to read my mind.
    
>    Do you ever send mixed signals 'cause you aren't sure yourself?
    
    All the time.  Still do.  I've given up on "signals" lately since
    I know I'm not so good at reading others' signals, and I am not
    so good at sending clear, unambiguous signals most of the time.
    
>    If you figure out in the middle that you just want a hug, and your
>    partner is still thinking sex, do you go along with it, or do you
>    know how to say that you don't want sex, or that you've actually
>    changed (clarified) your mind? 
    
    Do I go along with it?  Used to.  Made for pretty cruddy sex.  Now
    I don't, mostly because it calls up some pretty horrible memories
    and sensations for me (rape-recall).
    
    First couple times I changed my mind in mid-act and wanted to stop,
    it was pretty traumatic (hard to get the words out of my mouth,
    tears usually came first.  Way to scare the hell out of both me
    and my partner).  Now I seem to be getting the hang of it a lot
    better, and it (my moods, my partner's moods) is becoming less and
    less of a big deal.
    
>    Do you hope that s/he'll figure *this* out? 
    
    Wish s/he could, even now.  Sometimes it works, others I have to
    go back to words.  But I _do_ go back to the words.
    
>    Do you find it difficult to clearly ask for a hug and just a hug?
    
    Not now.  Latest tactic:
    
    One of us'll say "wanna cuddle?"  Other says "cuddle?"  First says
    either, "yep, _cuddle_" or "well actually...".  If during cuddle
    one thinks maybe sexier stuff would be nice, s/he asks and the other
    says either "mmm", "mmm" or "mmm" (one is a clear negative, one
    is a very clear positive, and one is an i dunno lets see).
    
>    How do you cope with the situation of you and your partner wanting
>    different things at a given time?
    
    Default: if _one_ of us doesn't want sex, we don't have it.  For
    me, that is the only way to hold on to my sanity.
    
    Lee

    C(mmm)unication is i(mmm)portant ;-)

    
    	What is hard about asking for just a hug and nothing
    	more? If you don't want anything more and your partner
    	(male or female) really cares about your feelings/needs
    	that should be the end of it. I have a hard time trying
    	to understand why some people can't talk about their
    	feelings on sex with their partners, nobody is going
    	to know my mind or I won't know anyone elses unless it's
    	stated.
    
    	I have (as well as my partner) changed my mind midstream,
    	no big deal if you can both be honest. Sometimes it ended
    	with just cuddling, other times other things besides
    	actual intercourse ;^}, depending on how the dis-interested
    	party felt at the time. At times I (or my partner) have
    	not felt up to "it", but have cared enough about the others
    	desire to well **blush** ya know!
    
    	Talk about it, how else will anyone know!!
    
    	G_B
    

    I don't know when I want a hug vs. sex.  (I don't usually
    even know when I want to masturbate vs. wanting sex.)  But my
    SO and I are very "touching" people, so we hug and kiss and
    squeeze and cuddle a lot.  I'm currently struggling with
    another side of a similar problem:  how do I let my SO know
    when I want *more* than a hug?  (How do I let myself know?)
    I think earlier replies are on the right track--we've got to
    *say* so.  When you're this confused, non-verbal signals just
    don't seem to work all that well. 

    -- Linda 

    One way to help get over the confusion is to practice a lot
    with someone you trust!
    
    --bonnie

I'm very aware of when I need a hug.  There is no fine line for me
between a hug and sex.  There was a long time in my life where I wasn't
able to ask for anything, let alone a hug.  I can do it now.  

I used to work at the same facility as one of my sons.  It didn't matter
when he saw me during the day, he'd wrap his arms around me and hug me,
and maybe say hi ma...:-)  His hugs filled me with joy.  I can meet up
with a close friend be it male or female who I haven't seen for a long
time and hug them and feel great!  I could call a close friend and say
I just need a hug and if this happened, I'd feel good.  But when the
whole world is coming down on me (which happens sometimes :-) and I'm
feeling down and overwhelmed, there is a need for a hug (and only a hug)
from that very special important man in my life.  Like "everythings gonna
be ok, Charlene.)  

For a long time I didn't recognize this need.  A full session in group
therapy one night helped me to recognize the difference in hugs for me.
Even tho my friends and children love me very much, it's that one hug that
is missing at those overwhelming times.

I always recover from these moments,  As I dig my way out of feeling
overwhelmed and that special person isn't in my life, the need passes.
As far as my knowing the difference between needing a hug and needing sex, 
yes, I am very aware of the differences in the needs.. ;-)

At this time in my life, I don't expect my partner to 'second guess' me
nor would I want him to.  By the time my partner and I got to the sexual
part of our relationship, I would hope that both of us were direct enough
to _say_ what we want/desire/need from each other.

Charlene

    
    Whenever I feel the need for a hug, or to cuddle, all I have to do
    is say so!   My SO is a very sensitive and understanding person
    and as a result he never feels "cheated" out of sex.  He says he'd
    rather me be honest and thus he feels good knowing he's giving me
    something I really need.  In the same way, I'd rather he be honest
    with me because I would never want our lovemaking to become something
    just physical, it's more like an expression of our true feelings for
    one another and if we both don't feel like expressing those feelings
    through sex, than how could it be satisfying if both didn't want to
    express ourselves in the same manner.... if he just wants a hug, I
    feel just as fufilled.
                                  Hugs,
    					Judy  
                                       

    On re-reading the basenote, how *do* we "cope with the
    situation of you and your partner wanting different things at
    a given time?"  My SO and I have a mutually strong need for
    touching, hugging, etc, so it is easy for us to do a lot.  On
    the other hand, I seem to have a much greater need for sex
    than my SO.  (I think this is the obverse of the question in
    the basenote, but it surely applies, no?) 

    Some of you seem to be saying "if you and your partner are
    really open/understanding/honest/loving then you can tell
    each other your needs without fear of hurting each other."
    But, D**M IT, it *does* hurt when I ask my SO "wanna
    play?..." and he responds "I have a headache" (not just a
    cliche) or "I just don't feel like it right now" time after
    time after time. 

    I get frustrated and tired of feeling like my sexuality is
    being rejected.  My SO gets frustrated and feels pressured to
    "perform," whether in the, ah, traditional male
    fashion--which is not always possible for an unaroused
    man--or in activities traditionally called "foreplay."  And
    he's not comfortable with, um, pleasuring me if he's not in
    the mood...Thank goodness he's not got some of the
    "traditional" male discomfort with me masturbating!  But as
    several people have pointed out, this doesn't fulfill the
    need for sex, or the need to feel close to one's beloved
    through lovemaking.  So I quit asking except when I'm pretty
    sure the answer will be "yes" and we live as highly
    affectionate housemates a lot of the time.  (And one of the
    side effects of this is that I don't feel--or let myself
    feel--sexy, desireable, "tuned-in" to my own strength and
    sexuality with my SO--and is the topic of another note.) 

    Turning this around, looking at it from my SO's point of
    view, or what I understand as the point of view of the
    basenoter, when your need is more for affection and less for
    sex than your partner's, it seems unfair to be expected to
    put a lot of effort into something you're not really in the
    mood for--and if you're not in the mood for sex, but just in
    the mood for a hug, then sex *is* effort, not fun and not
    play.  So you say "not right now" and (hopefully) your
    partner understands your needs and can accept this easily.
    Affection, after all, seems to fill a lot of the need for
    sex. But, still, you understand your partner's needs, too,
    and maybe you feel a little guilty at not being able to
    satisfy her/his needs, especially if she/he is trying hard to
    be understanding about yours...so sometimes you smile and say
    "sure" and tell yourself that, after all, in a loving
    relationship, sometimes you have to make compromises, you
    can't always have everything *exactly* the way you want it,
    your partner's needs are important, too...

    So is one supposed to say "right now my needs are terribly
    important to me, I feel like I've been satisfying your needs
    at the expense of mine for some time, and I need a little
    time to turn things around the other way?"  How long?  What
    if your needs are *always* a little different, this isn't
    just something that needs "a little time" to work out?  It's
    bound to be somewhat threatening to your partner, whose needs
    (may) have been getting met tolerably well--but not saying it
    will almost certainly continue causing you pain. 

    Hmmm...I don't think I answered anything.

    -- Linda Huxtable

    re: .11
    
    Linda, these are all important issues you raise.  And
    unfortunately I don't have any answers for you.
    
    On the one hand, this kind of difference of temprement can show
    up in a lot of ways, not just sex.  Neil and I have irredeemably
    different tempos of living -- I like to ad lib, to do things on
    impulse, to take my time; he likes regularity, doing things at 
    the same time, knowing what's ahead. 

    A lot of times this makes me feel slow or lazy, or I get
    frustrated because he doesn't want to do something impulsively and
    I accuse him of being a stick in the mud, or he feels frustrated
    because he feels like I'm not doing my share of the work or
    shirking the family responsibility.
    
    It doesn't go away.  It's a difference that we have to deal with
    again and again.  It pops up in sudden and unexplained places.
    And having dealt with it a thousand times before really doesn't
    make it any easier to deal with this particular time when I
    haven't started supper (I cook; he cleans) because I was reading a
    magazine article and he wanted to eat on time.
    
    But having the area of incompatibility in the realm of sex is much
    more difficult and painful.  I don't know how I'd deal with that.
    
    Because of the kids, we don't have sex as often as either of us
    would like, and sometimes I feel pressured to have sex just
    because there's time, even though I don't really feel like it. If
    I really don't want to, he accepts that, though I know how much it
    hurts to say no -- and you are right, even if you really are open,
    honest, and loving in your relationship, it hurts to be told no. 
    
    A lot of times I find if I relax and let myself enjoy the cuddling
    and the stroking, I can get into the flow of things.  Or we
    do something intimite and not directly sexual, like back rubs
    or warm baths together, and that will get us both in the mood.
    (But sometimes I run out of good ideas in this area.)

    It's rough.  I wish I had more answers for you.
    
    --bonnie

    The people I'm closest to have an underlying agreement -- hugs are
    the default.  That way there can be lots and lots of them without
    the old worries about sending mixed messages.
    
    'Snuggling' is also an option, and is an entity in its own right,
    aside from sex.  (I think it's traditionally been undervalued...)
    
    For years women gave sex to get affection.  I think everyone should
    have both in their lives without having to give one to get the other.