Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I AGREE, I AGREE...............
    
    Having just recoved from a near fatal accident I must stress this
    point...........
    
    PLEASE DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE YOU MIGHT NOT BE AS LUCKY AS I WAS.
    

    And wear your seatbelt.
    						Ann B.

>    And wear your seatbelt.
>    						Ann B.


	I'm a rare case.  I didn't have mine on, nor my passenger.
	If we did, we both would be dead. They are not always the
	answer.

				Mike

    No, Mike, you're quite right, they're not always the answer. 
    
    And people sometimes *do* fill an inside straight ;-)
    
    						=maggie

The following answer is from a noter who wishes to be annonymous
    
    ___________________________________________________________-
    
    	
	This past August I was involved in a one-car accident.
	I was the driver, my girlfriend was the passenger.
	We went out for a night of dancing and a "couple"
	drinks.  Well, when I left I thought I was OK.
	It was pouring very badly out, and I was doing under
	the speed limit by about 5 miles on RT 3.  After I passed
	the last exit out of NH, a car came flying across the
	lanes and cut in front of me. I slammed on the brakes, and
	rolled the car four times.  I was thrown out into a pine-tree
	and got knocked out.  My girlfriend remained in the car.
	We were both extremely lucky.  I had a couple of stitches in the
	face, and she got a bruise on the back.  When the insurance
	company called, they asked how many people died in the accident.
	Enough of that.

	What I'm going to say, can only be realized by someone that this
	has happened to, but should never be realized by anyone.

	The monetary cost of fines, and DWI school are nothing...$750
	My insurance will go up.

	Since then my girlfriend and I have broken up, but remain extremely
	close friends.

	I pain every time I see her. To think of what I did too her, and 
	what more I could have done.  I think of the pain I put my parents
	through at 3:30 in the AM (I live at home, common courtesy). I 
	think of the pain her parents went through at 10:30 the next day,
	because the hospital never called her home.  That's what hurts,
	not the short change in the pocket, not the loss of license,
	but of what could have been....the nightmares day in and day out..
	I still have them.

	I plead, please don't drink and drive.....Take it from someone that
    	knows.  

    
	I made a mistake once...that's it. ONCE.

    re:.3
    
    Back during my teens, I was on my way home one night and for some
    reason unbeknownst to me, I put on my seatbelt (I had never worn
    it before). I was almost all the way home when I dozed off at the
    wheel. If I had not had that seatbelt on, I would in all likelihood
    be dead or seriously injured. I've worn my seatbelt ever since.
    
    --- jerry

Four years ago my 15-year old cousin was in an accident. The driver had been
drinking. He lost control and hit a tree. Except for a head injury my cousin
did not have a scratch on his body. If he had been wearing his seatbelt
he would be celebrating Christmas this year...

Jenna

In the early 1970's, the Swedish government did a study of all fatal
accidents in one model-year of Volvos.  The study was a cooperative
effort between Volvo, the insurance companies, the Traffic Safety
Board, and the people who investigate airplane crashes.

There were 131 fatalities.  129 were not wearing seat belts.

Sweden required seat belt usage by all passengars the following year.

One problem with someone saying "if I had a belt on, I would have died"
is that -- if the above numbers generalize -- 65 people are not around
to give a different opinion.

Martin.

Best Book:  The Art of Expert Driving  by Fales (I forget his first name.)

The book was given a terrific review by The Whole Earth Catalog, which I
found while combing the library on how-to-drive books. I found about 30
books and The Art was far and away the best. 

See, in 1978 I totaled my Ford, in 1980 I totaled my Gremlin, in 1981 I 
got a ticket and, to avoid the fine, I went to safe driving school, where I 
realized my driving skills were ... ah .... lacking. Thus the library hunt. 
No more accidents.  I'm now a pretty good driver.

Point of interest: Accident researches say that there are 10 common factors
that lead to car accidents.  Most serious accidents occur when three or
more are present at the same time. Here are the four I remember: 

     driving too fast for conditions
     bad weather
     driver is tired 
     driver has been drinking                   Meigs

    On September 14th, 1985, a gentleman in a big hurry did not stop
    at a red light. He dashed into my car with great violence, detroying
    both cars completely. He then promptly jumped out of his car, wrenched
    my door open, and started insulting me loudly and violently, and
    saying I had not stopped at the red light. I was fairly groggy from
    the shock at that time, and accepted what he told me. When I managed
    to get out of the car and call my husband, I told him I had caused
    an accident, probably by driving through a red light, though I could
    not remember anything about it. When the police came, a gentleman
    stepped in and said that he had been waiting at the pedestrian crossing
    and that the other driver, not myself, had driven at great speed
    through the red light.
    
    What I'd like to say is that:
    
    	- though both cars were completely demolished, both the other
    	  driver and myself were wearing our seat belts and had nothing
    	  but badly scratched knees.
                                 
    	- if somebody had not taken some of his precious time to wait
    	  for the police and testify, I would probably have stayed with
    	  the burden of having caused a potentially very dangerous
    	  accident, destroying two cars (we were not able at that time
    	  to buy a car again, because it was an old car and we got very
    	  little insurance money), and a feeling of complete inadequacy.
    	  I swore to myself that if I ever witnessed an accident, I
    	  would testify to what I had seen, whatever the cost to myself.
    	                                                                
    	- after that accident, I did not drive for a full year, not
    	  only because we couldn't afford to buy a car, but because I
    	  was petrified at the thought that I could be driving at a
    	  normal speed, being normally attentive, and that somebody
    	  could come out of nowhere, attempt to kill me by driving
    	  recklessly, destroy the life of my family, and escape guilt
    	  free for lack of witnesses, and continue heedlessly on a path
    	  of destruction (I know I sound melodramatic, but it's something
    	  I feel very strongly about, and even after two years the anger
    	  has not abated).
                                                            
    So, we should all drive carefully, but also honestly: if we provoke
    an accident, we should own up to it. Everybody makes mistakes, but
    letting other people pay for our mistakes is despicable.
                                                            

	Was this an omen.  Seatbelts.  My father  said yesterday,
	wear a seatbelt.  He never, ever said that to me.  Yesterday
	I was the passenger of a hit-run accident, that totaled both
	cars.  The other driver ran, literally.  By the time I could
	get out of our car, he had ripped the plate off the back of his
	(plastic license frame), and ran down the street....stolen car ???


		BTW, I wasn't wearing a seatbelt.  I have a tremendous
	headache this a.m........

			1987 the year the wasn't....

				Michael

    re .11
    
    If it was a stolen car, it's very unlikely the thief would have
    taken the time to remove the license plate. Tracing it from the
    VID might be interesting...

	Well this is from what I understood.  A person who routinely
	steals cars, will use his own plate. Reason being, if the car
	is stolen, and their is APB out for a particular license plate
	it won't be matched, therefore, he won't be stopped.  I took
	the papers out of the glove compartment, and kept them until
	the police arrived, and handed them to him.  THe VID number on
	the car, matched the papers in the glove compartment, but
	without the plate, it will be hard to find the guy, if he stole
	it. The plate was in a plastic frame...(left on the ground)
	so you break thge plastic and run...two seconds of time.....

	A witness to the accident saw what happened, and saw the kid run 
	into a schoolyard down the street, and then get into a red 
	Toy. Corolla SR%,a nd he got the license plate, and where the
	car was headed.  This happened in Lynn Ma, I am totally unfamiliar
	with most of that area....

			
		Sorry to go off on a tangent....


			M-

    Here are some interesting facts related to drinking, driving and
    getting caught in Massachusetts.
    
    First time offenders: if you are found guilty of intoxication (.1 Blood
    alcohol level) while behind the wheel, there is a $100.00 fine,
    loss of license for 45 days and a 21-week alcohol treatment program.
    (Cost about $450.00).
      
    Second time offense is stiffer fine (I forget), up to two weeks
    in jail, loss of license for 2 years (or is it 1 year), and a more
    expensive alcohol treatment program.                               
    
    Third time offenders are treated as alcoholics and sent to programs
    such as AA (after paying unbelievable fines and doing time in a
    cell block).
    
    ...and, if you hit and kill someone, you are tried not only for
    being intoxicated, but for manslaughter (vehicular homicide).
    
    Sad thing here: for every 12 people caught, there are over 500 who
    get away with it.
    
    
    My note:
    
    Raising the drinking age has helped.  Raising the speed limit will
    not.  NOT RECOGNIZING ALCOHOL FOR WHAT IT IS ****A DRUG**** IS THE
    CAUSE OF THESE ACCIDENTS
    
    I'll say this:  I had one (1) , just one, I SAID ONE beer and I
    got involved in an accident that gave me 14 stitches to my mouth
    and caused a friend of mine to crash into my windshield (no seatbelts
    in 1978) and continues to have severe back trauma.  Me, ***I***
    did that to her and me.  I never saw so much blood come out of my
    body before.  Remember, all it took was one beer to throw my judgement
    off.  I hit a pick-up truck HEAD ON doing 35, but he was doing 65,
    an impact of 45 (65 + 35 = 90/2 = 45mph).  I could have easily avoided
    him if I hadn't been buzzed.                     
    
    I no longer drink alcoholic (drug) beverages.  They are a waste
    to my body and my mind.  All they do is cause family problems and
    kill innocent people.  I will never touch alcohol again.
    
    ...and I wear my seatbelt, constantly.  It's like a second skin
    to me.
    
    Cathy (who angrily deals with an alcoholic sister who gets behind
           the wheel of her car, without a care to who is in her way
                                     

    RE: .14
    
    Cathy, you were both lucky that you're still around.
    
    From the speeds both you and the pickup truck were doing, the 
    *actual* impact speed was 100MPH, not 45.
    
    In a head-on collision, you simply add the speed of each vehicle
    to determine the speed at the moment of impact. You do not divide
    this number by two, simply because there were 2 vehicles.
    
      Alan

    re .15:
    
    > In a head-on collision, you simply add the speed of each vehicle
    > to determine the speed at the moment of impact. You do not divide
    > this number by two, simply because there were 2 vehicles.
      
    Yes you do. All that energy is being dissipated by 2 vehicles, so
    each dissipates half the total. 
    
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    Please let's not dilute Cathy's message by starting an argument over
    physics.  Right?
    
    						=maggie 

    How much is .1?
    
    I usually feel fine if I have 2 drinks of any kind *with* dinner
    and drive home 90 minutes later.  I've often wondered where that
    put me on the legal spectrum, though, and I've also wondered how much
    difference time makes.
    
    I feel a little cynical when I hear about the severe penalties above,
    and then drive by a lounge which is doing a brisk business and has
    a parking lot full of cars.  If the place doesn't serve significant
    food, caters to a clientele which spends most of the evening there,
    and doesn't have an obvious number of "designated drivers", my
    assumption is that most people leaving the place are well over the
    limit.
                                              
    With all the publicity about drunk driving, the places which mainly
    serve liquor still seem to be doing a very brisk business with people
    who drive there and back.

    re:.10
    
    I had a similar incident happen to me. I was stopped at a red
    light on Mass Ave. in Arlington. The light turned green, and I
    started to go when a car came flying through the red light in
    perpendicular direction. It was a female high-schooler who was
    hysterical that "her father was going to kill her". I wouldn't
    be surprised if he did, since it appeared that when she got home,
    she told him that I was the one who ran the red light. When I
    told him otherwise, I said I had two witnesses who saw it my
    way. One was a vice president of Arthur D. Little, the other
    one was a minister. One couldn't ask for better witnesses.
    
    --- jerry

    I was involved in a car accident on the way to work in October.
    The whole left side of my car was damaged.  I actually felt the
    seat belt I was wearing hold me against the seat.  The impact
    did cause my head to hit the driver's side window quite hard.
    I don't like to think what might have happened had I not been
    wearing the belt.

	In one accident I was in, I was in the back seat with a lap
	belt on.  The force of the accident caused my head to go forward
	and hit the seat in front of me (bloody nose), and I got a
	hairline fracture of my spine.  It might have been worse
	without the seat belt (the people in the front would have
	gone through the windshield without their's), but I would
	have been a lot better off with a shoulder harness too.  Why
	do so few cars provide them in the back?

	...Karen

       re .21:
       
       > Why do so few cars provide [shoulder harnesses] in the back?
       
       Most auto manufacturers did not include lap belts in cars until
       the government required them to; front-seat shoulder harnesses
       were equally rare until they were required, too.  The government
       hasn't required rear-seat harnesses, and it's unlikely that they
       will be commonplace, or even an available option on most cars,
       unless they are required by law. 
       
       --Mr Topaz 

    More notes:
    
    It takes the body (average weight 150 pounds) 1 hour to digest and get
    rid of 1 oz of pure alcohol (= 12 ounce beer, 4 ounces wine, 1 shot
    hard liquor).  So, if you weight 150 pounds and have 1 drink, you
    should wait 1 hour after drinking before driving home.  
    2 drinks/hour = wait 2 hours after drinking, 
    3 drinks/hour = wait 3 hours after drinking.  
    Anyone that consumes 4 drinks/hour who weighs 150 pounds is 
    pushing it because the bar is going to close with you lying on the floor.
                               
    Point - just because men are men and women are women does not mean
    that men need more to feel a buzz and women need less to feel a
    buzz.  It has nothing to do with the sex of the individual.  It
    has to do with body weight and how many drinks in what period of
    time that will give an accurate BAL (blood alcohol level).
    
    Blood alcohol level explanations are not on the tip of my tongue.
    But, based on what I know, if I were to have 3 drinks in one hour
    having had no food and I weigh 125 pounds, needless to say I would
    not be cabable of walking right, let alone operating a dangerous
    piece of machinery.   
    
    So, when you go out on a Saturday night, and you "don't" drink,
    you're in danger of being victimized by someone that does drink
    and drive.
    
    I guess it'll have to hit your real close before you do anything
    about it.  I hate to admit this but when I find out that my sister
    drives from Boston to Quincy and back home again after boozing it
    up at the Boston Marathon, I want to shake her until she falls apart
    and then she can say she's hit rock bottom, crawl off her a** and
    ask for God to help her.
    
    Cathy (who sees her ACOA anger showing through, but tough)

>< Note 601.23 by JUNIOR::TASSONE "The age of our cruise director, 65" >
>                      -< oooo I get so angry sometimes! >-
>
>     1 oz of pure alcohol (= 12 ounce beer, 4 ounces wine, 1 shot
>    hard liquor).  

    I think  you mean 1/2 oz. Hard liquor is about 50% alcohol, so a 1
    oz.  shot  has  1/2  oz.  of  alcohol. Wine is typically about 12%
    alcohol,so  4 oz. is 1/2 oz. of alcohol. American beer is around 4
    or 5% alcohol.

--David

    re .24  Forget the ounces.  Let me put it another way.  There is
    the same amount of alcohol in 1 oz of hard liquor, 1 beer and 4
    ounces of wine.  So, if someone said, "but I only had a beer", they
    still had as much alcohol as 1 shot of whiskey.  It just took them
    longer to drink it, correct?
                                 
    It pains me to see the media state, "people are drinking 'lighter'
    these days, they're having wine coolers"
    
    ...but they're having 4 or 5 of them at a time.  They are not soda
    pop, they are not a "drink", they are a drug, just hidden behind
    a pink, shiny label.
    
    But officer, these are only wine coolers..... ARRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!
    
    Cathy 

    Re .23
    
    Men (on the average) are larger than women (on the average).  Thus,
    typically, a woman will be more intoxicated than liquor than a man.
    There are, of course, many individual exceptions.
    
    I agree with .-1 about the ads for wine coolers.  They are about
    as alcholic as beer.  Thus, if someone drinks 4 of them, they should
    wait at least 4 hours before driving (assuming the mythical 150
    lb person).
    
    Elizabeth

    	Absorbtion rate depends on a number of factors. In particular it is
    slowed down by food, and speeded up by carbon dioxide. Champagne, gin
    and tonic, fizzy American beer on an empty stomach give the highest
    absorbtion rate. A brandy after a large meal is absorbed much more
    slowly.
    
    	Once the alcohol gets into the blood, the rate it is metabolised is
    not linear. If you actually survive the dose then it is almost all
    metabolised within 6 hours, but allow for the variable absorbtion time.
    
    	A British government study (not well publicised) indicated that
    people actually drove better with a small amount of alcohol - about
    half the legal limit. By the legal limit they were back to the same
    capability as sober, and beyond that were worse.
    
    	Nobody drives better with a hangover.

    and women who are on the pill are more readily affected by alcohol.

    re .28 (effect of the pill)
    
    Thanks Bonnie for mentioning that. I practically never drink, but
    it's useful knowledge anyway.
    
    re .alcohol level
    
    I recently read an article in a newspaper, where the police had
    arrested a lady weaving on the highway at 7:00 a.m. The blood test
    revealed a level of 4.5% alcohol in the blood, which is a sort of
    record, as it's the second highest level ever found in Europe on
    a driver (normally people who have that much alcohol in their blood
    are in ethylic coma). The lady was a teacher on her way to school...
    
    Joana

< Note 601.27 by VISA::MONAHAN "I am not a free number, I am a telephone box" >

>    	A British government study (not well publicised) indicated that
>    people actually drove better with a small amount of alcohol - about
>    half the legal limit. By the legal limit they were back to the same
>    capability as sober, and beyond that were worse.

I would have a hard time accepting the accuracy of this study.  ANY alcohol
in the body diminishes a person's capacity for quick reactions and sound
judgement.  The only persons I can think of who would be helped by a little
alcohol would be those with high blood pressure or severe emotional distress.
In either case, they shouldn't be on the road.  Can you cite your source for
this study?  I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was conducted by a heavy
drinker :').

/Mike

    .9 reminds me of the best driver training movie I know of, which
    I saw at the Andover Tractor-Trailer School:

        	Final Factor
    
    The general idea is that a given accident is caused by a combination
    of causes present at the time.  It's dark and rainy, but you don't
    have the accident.  It's dark and rainy and you're tired, and you
    do.

Note .27 {A British government study (not well publicised) } reminded me
...  The radio show Car Talk, on the Los Angeles PBS station, has
occasionally mentioned a drunk driver study, done the California Highway
Patrol.  The patrol didn't release the study, but here is what it said: 

Most serious accidents caused by drunk drivers involve a small set (under 
10%) within the drunk driver population.  The members of this set are people
who get very aggressive as they drink. Sober, these people drive 10 to
20 miles over the speed limit; drunk, 20 to 50 miles over.

The "happy" drunk may knock down road signs or hit others at 20 miles an
hour, but the happy drunk rarely kills anybody.  

The lesson is:  Be aware of idiots who drive like carousing teenages. (A
police clue:  cars that fail to dim their brights as they come towards you
are often being driven by a drunk.)       Meigs 

    
    
    My husband, who wasn't my husband at the time, was in a bad car
    accident due to drinking and driving.  It was almost four years
    ago on the night that I graduated from high school.  We were at
    a graduation party and he had way to much to drink, and he is one
    that cannot handle alot but will keep drinking until he drops. 
    Anyway, we were at this party and I was talking to a couple of 
    friends and I guess he got a little upset.  He is a very jealous
    person.  Well he got in his car, which at the time was a little
    subaru.  He drove up and down the street, which has other streets
    connecting onto it, he kept going back and forth, back and forth.
    No one could stop him. I don't know what he was trying to prove.
    Then he took off.  At that point I knew he was going to get hurt.
    Sure enough, about three hours later, my mother came looking for
    me.  She said he had been in an accident.  Off to the hospital I
    went.  He had hit a sign and tree.  The police estimated a speed
    of 70-80 mph.  I couldn't believe it.  When the police were at the
    scene,  he was calling my name and the police were looking for me
    they thought that there was someone else in the car.  It seems,
    and we'll never know the whole truth, that he came flying around
    a corner and slid across the road, it was raining, and the side
    of the car hit the sign.  The police say at that point he was thrown
    from the car and the car proceeded on to hit the tree.  It's a good
    thing he didn't have his seat belt on because he wouldn't be around
    today.  The car was demolished. We he arrived at the hospital, 
    it was awful because they couldn't do anything for him because
    of all the alcohol in his blood.  He had to lay there and suffer
    until the next day.  He had a fractured skull, lots of cuts and
    scratches and a broken jaw.  He looked awful.  His was in surgery
    for six hours while they attached his jaw back to the rest of his
    face with wire. Now, for the rest of his life, he has those wires
    in his jaw.  His mouth after the surgery was wired shut for four
    weeks.  He couldn't even eat anything unless it went into a blender.
    It was hell.  I never want to go through anything like that again.
    Even now after almost four years, he gets pains in his jaw.  The
    doctors also told him to be careful because if he ever got hit in
    the mouth, his jaw would shatter like glass.  Since then he has
    been in a minor accident.  He fell asleep at the wheel and went
    off the road.  You would think by now that he would have learned
    his lesson.
    
    
    Laura

    
    	Because if he had his seatbelt on when the car hit the tree,
    he would of gotten crushed.  The front end of the car was in the
    front seat.
    
    Laura
    
    

>    Since then he has
>    been in a minor accident.  He fell asleep at the wheel and went
>    off the road.  You would think by now that he would have learned
>    his lesson.
    
   
>    Laura

	What lesson ???? Unless he was drinking the time he fell
	asleep, I see no correlation between the two.  Contrary
	to belief, people may fall asleep, due to the fumes in
	cars, and due to the combination of the heat/fumes.  Not
	neccessarily for driving when tired.

	
		Micheal

    
    Micheal,
    
    	He was drinking on this night too, when he fell asleep at the
    wheel.
    
    Laura
    
    

	Thank you. I didn't mean to sound, like an idiot.  I was just
	trying to figure it out....

		Micheal