Conference yukon::christian_v7

    Hey Jimbo, do you have the booklet that I bought you when you were at
    my church? :-)
    
    Nancy

 Digressions from base note have been moved to chit chat, with apologies to
 base noter. 

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 Jim Co Mod

    The following 6 notes are from a sermon preached by the minister at the
    local church, near San Jose CA, where I currently live.
    
    They follow the theme of the base note, as it was a sermon/history
    lesson on the history of the church. I left it in it's entirety, as not
    to take anything out of the context.
    
    Any typo's, mispellings, or errors in transcription are mine, and I
    claim forgiveness for them. May God bless you, as He did me with this
    sermon.
    
    Bob

Transcribed from tape of sermon on History of the Church, Pastor Mike Kiley  
Home Church, Campbell CA  1-30-94, Used with permission

   How does the church today compare to the first century church? You know, we 
must have that in our minds, you know, how are we doing? How is the church today
compared to the church in the first century? It's out yardstick, if you would. 
It is our pattern, and from time to time,  we need to reappraise where we're 
at. Now this last week, and really this whole year, has been a foundation laying
. so that when the structure is built, it will stand because the foundation has 
been laid properly. And the Holy Spirit, and the outpouring if the spirit that 
we shared last week, I think encouraged our hearts. It reveals that when there 
is the rise of the church and spirituality, and then the decline and the fall, 
the Holy Spirit intervenes in history. And so it isn't merely the church going 
back to Pentecost, "Now we're waiting for the Savior", it is the church 
experiencing Pentecost time, and time again, when they cry out to God. And we 
were looking at that last week.

   Now, you have to understand that as we look at history, it is a reminder of 
the past, and gives hope to the future. And one of the problems I believe we 
have today in America, and all over the world, is that we are ignorant of our 
history. And ignorance of church history provides a great opportunity for the 
cults to come in and teach heretical doctrine. Because if we know from whence 
we came, and we know where we stand, we wouldn't be so easily persuaded. And 
yet there are many, many, by the thousands being swept into cults because there
is such wide spread ignorance of who we are even.  

Now God was very clear in calling the children of Israel to remembrance of 
what He has done. When He instituted the Passover, He told them this is done 
because of what the Lord did for me, when I came out of Egypt, Moses is 
speaking,  and you shall tell it to your children, to your sons, Exodus 13:8. 
And then when He fed them with manna, He commanded Moses to keep a jar of 
manna, and He said, So that it will be told for the generations to come. 
Exodus 16:33. And I can sum it up, there's so many other ones, then we'll move 
into the book of Acts, but when He was speaking through Moses in Deuteronomy 
6, He said, And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart, 
you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when 
you sit in your house. When you go home and sit down today, you talk about the 
things of God. And then it says, When you walk by the way, now today we can 
say "when you're driving to work in a carpool", it's very similar. When you 
walk in the way, because they walked, they would talk about God. And then it 
says, When you lie down, when you go to bed at night, and if you're married, 
you turn to your spouse, and you say, The Lord, He has done it in times of old,
and He will do it in the future. In other words, that's what God intended, and 
then, they weren't robbed by these heretical teachings that spring up with 
cults. And then He says, And when you rise up, that was the last one, He covers
it all! When you sit down, when you go to bed, when you rise up, when you talk 
to your children, when you walk around, God was saying, have Him on your minds.

    Acts 2:38, we pick up where we were last week, and we discovered the 
outpouring of the Holy Spirit, in Acts, chapter 2, And Peter, after being 
filled with the Holy Spirit, empowered by God, he stood up in the midst of the 
leaders of Israel, and his brethren, and he said unto them, Repent, and let 
every one of you be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now Peter is preaching
the resurrection of Christ, death and resurrection. For the promise is to you, 
and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God 
will call. And so he covers all the church age, down to our very day. And then 
he says, in verse 40, and with many other words he testified and exhorted them 
saying, be saved from this perverse generation. So if you think your generation
is perverse, Peter thought his was! And he was calling out for the same thing. 
Now, verse 41, let me read through it, then we'll come back and take a look at
the pattern. Then those who gladly received his word were baptized, and that 
day about 3000 souls were added to them. How many do they have now? 3,120. 
Because there were about 120 in the upper room. Verse 42, And they continued 
steadfastly in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship in the breaking of bread, 
and in prayers. Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs 
were done through the Apostles. Now all who believed were together, and had 
all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them 
among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the 
temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with 
gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the 
people, and the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. 
Now, lets go back, because this tells us what was taking place in the first 
century church, after the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, after 
the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and lets see where we're at today. And I'll 
give you a little lesson in history, that will help us, I believe, to have 
courage for tomorrow, and if you don't have hope for tomorrow, you're not 
going home with much today. And verse 41, go back again, they gladly received 
the word and were baptized into the church, into the Lord. And so they started 
out their journey with the realization that Jesus Christ came as God into the 
world, and died, and rose again.  So they had some foundational truths, and
they believed that in the word, as they received the word of God, the word 
would be given to them,, the death and resurrection of Christ, the impartation 
of the Holy Spirit, to those who were in Christ.

		
  Now, verse 42. They continued steadfast in the Apostles teaching. They were 
rooted in the Bible, they believed in the Bible. They saw the Bible as their 
guide, and their light to their future. The very path they walk on was 
illuminated by this book. And so they were definitely in the Bible. Now today,
one of the dangers is that Christians, aren't in their Bibles. We get 
distracted, we're not reading the greatest book that has ever been written. 
It is the only book, that I call a living word, because it is alive! You can 
read a book by a good author, and you can be enlightened, and encouraged, but 
you'll never read a book, that actually goes into you heart, and plants seeds, 
in your life, that brings fruit into your life, like this book here. You cannot
do it. And so they held onto the word. Today many of your cults, they take a 
portion of the Bible, and they write a lot of books about it, and they amplify 
it to their concepts and thinking, and then they persuade people to follow 
after their ways, distracting them from the truth. The truth will set you free.
I sing because I'm happy, I sing because I'm free. (reference to opening song)

  Verse 43. They had a genuine fear of God, and when there was a genuine fear 
of God in the church, when people weren't coming to manipulate God, to hype God,
they were coming because they feared God, in the truest sense. And when you 
fear God, understand that when you really fear God, happiness is part of the 
benefit. I mean there is a joy, and when we think of fear we normally think of 
distancing ourselves from the object of our fear. When we fear God, He brings 
us into His presence. And signs and wonders were accompanying the fear of the 
Lord. 

Verse 44, and 45,  they were a sharing church, they took care of each other, 
they loved each other, they knew each other. And today, you have to be careful 
you don't build your church around a personality, that was never God's 
intention. and with our mass communication there is a tendency for Christians 
to gravitate towards personality. And there is the danger. God intended the 
church to be a living organism, bound together. And when someone says, what 
church do you belong to, you should be able to say, even though you have a name
that speaks of one church, you should be able to say I am part of the body, 
and part of the larger body of Christ. And you should be able to identify many 
people in your life, that you feel close to, that you're sharing with, that you
love.  Now that's what God intended. And today, we gravitate towards 
personalities. that's our age.

    Now in verse 46, they broke bread. And they went from house to house, and 
they ate their bread, with gladness and simplicity of heart. And that tells me 
first of all, that they not only ate together, they were a happy church. They 
really were a happy church. You know, they enjoyed meeting, they enjoyed coming
to church, and they held on to the simplicity of Christ! They didn't come to 
church and say, well, I got to fulfill that obligation, and I can't wait until 
the church is over so I can go out and do my own thing. I go to church because 
I want to be saved, and I know that part of  the requirements of salvation, 
well I suppose, is that you got to be in fellowship with God. I mean... my what
a disgust ...well go home! And do something that's fun. I mean if it's that 
boring, I mean my goodness, we got to rethink this thing. And this church was 
happy, it was the most exciting time of the week! They got together in their 
homes, because they didn't have churches at this time, and they were a very 
happy people. And then in verse 47, Praising God. And when you were praising 
earlier, I mean I thoroughly enjoyed getting into the praise! They praised God!
And I notice in my life, I don't know about yours, sometimes I'm not fully 
equipped to praise the Lord when I come in. I don't have my spiritual antennae 
fully engaged. And as we start praising, and as Ray or Bob will exhort us,  
all of a sudden I am brought back to the focus of who God is! I need that like 
you do, and all of a sudden I find my praise has gone from my head, to my heart
. And it is moving now in my spirit, and these people praised God, and people 
were attracted to them because they praised God, they saw they were alive and 
there was something contagious, and that's what Christianity should offer. I 
mean, if you go to church, and it's a very dull, solemn occasion, then 
something's missing. Now I realize we have invented solemnity over a period of 
years, but it wasn't so in the first century church. This is what I want to 
get across. Do we want to model after mans church, or Gods? Gods church was a 
praising church. They were a joyful church, they were a happy church. 

     In fact, Justin Martyr  who was one of our early church fathers, writing 
in the first century, lets say would be writing in 140, 150 AD, and 168 AD, 
just prior to that, he was tried, and he was actually martyred. We have his 
name now coming down as Justin Martyr. And he represents the martyrs of the 
church. But when they actually were investigating him, they wanted to know 
where do you meet? Because they wanted to find out where the buildings were, 
and he said, "Well we're accustomed to meet, well, I live over the baths in 
Rome." He lived in a place where baths were public baths, much different today 
than what we would think. In ancient cultures, people would go and bathe in a 
public place, and he lived there, and he said, "we meet in my home." And here's
what he gives, he gives the ingredients for the church. They wanted to know 
what a church does. And he said, "well, the worship of a church includes 
baptism, common prayers, preaching, and communion." And so it was a worshipping
church, and those were the ingredients for the church. Now, the church as we 
know met in homes, for the first 300 years. They met at homes. Now, when you 
say met at homes, when you think of your homes, you think, my, I couldn't get 
many people in. What they would do, is they would have large areas, in the 
larger homes, it would be like a dining area, much larger than perhaps our 
dining areas of today,  because they have found some of these homes in 
archeological expeditions, and someone who might have financial means, would 
dedicate, or donate a home, to the church, and it would become strictly the 
purpose of worship. People would meet in that home. And it was very common. 

   Now, there was another man, by the name of Pliney the younger, and he was a 
Roman writer, and a Roman administrator, and later became an attorney,  and 
developed tremendous skills as a prosecutor in the Roman government, and was 
very well respected, and become known more for his writing later, obtained a 
high rank, and so he came to the place where he was given the governor ship of 
Bethania. and there were a lot of problems in Bethania, and so we have this 
man, Pliney the younger, who is now writing letters to his emperor in Rome, 
Trageon. Now, he is going there to prosecute those who are causing problems in 
this region. In his prosecutions, he is alerted to Christians, and we know 
that he put many Christians to death in this area. But he was also a very 
careful investigator, and as he began to investigate the Christians, he began 
to write to Trageon, and let me just show you what he wrote. This is all in
historical documents. He said I have been trying to get all the information he 
could regarding them. I have even hired spies to profess to be Christians, and 
 be baptized, in order that they might get into the Christian services without 
suspicion. This is back in 100 AD, it's amazing. Contrary to what I have 
supposed, I find that the Christians meet at dead of night, or at early morn, 
that they sing a hymn to Christ as God, that they read from their own sacred 
writings, and partake of a very simple meal consisting of bread and wine, and 
water, the water added to the wine to dilute it, in order that there might be 
enough for all. He's describing a communion service! This is all that I can 
find out, except they exhort each other to be subject for the government, and 
to pray for all men. That was his testimony. And it was right after that, and 
it is believed a result of those letters, that a new imperial decree came down 
to disregard anonymous reports against Christians. They were claiming that 
Christians were cannibals in this century, because of eating of the bread and 
wine, represents the flesh, and blood of Jesus. They accused them of going out 
and mixing in cemeteries. They did meet in cemeteries, because they were 
persecuted, they met wherever they could. They'd have a service. They were 
criticized, but after this report, and this investigation which was thorough, 
it led to the believers having a lighter sentence, so to speak, they left them 
alone in this region. And that tells us something of the church. So the 
prosecutors of Rome tell us something about Christianity! They sang together, 
they had communion together, they read the Bible together, they met in 
simplicity. And they prayed for the government! Can you imagine the emperor 
finding out the people he was persecuting were praying for his health? That 
made a major change. 
   
     Now, I think as Christians we have to know what's been taking place, and 
how things change. I don't think Christians really know this, so they get 
locked into the church. We're not doing everything right here. You know, I 
don't think any church I've ever met does everything right. And I trust that 
as we grow, we'll become more like Jesus. More in simplicity. And I trust that 
will happen to me, and happen to you. Unless, I'm stuck in my ways, and you're 
stuck in yours. Years ago, when I was in business, I said I don't ever want to 
get in a rut. And I always defined a rut as a shallow grave. Terrible place to 
be buried. Terrible place to walk. Don't get in a rut, men and women.  And so 
let me give you the age of change, let me show you how things are taking place.
And to give you an idea of what's going on in the church,  out of church 
history. 

   Now in 312 AD, Constantine declares himself to be a Christian. If you study 
that period of history, Constantine I, became the emperor of Rome, fought of 
his rival in Rome, and believed that God had spoken to him with a sign of the 
cross in the heavens, and the age of change is now underway in the church. Up 
to this time, churches had been meeting in homes. By 324 AD, Constantine, and 
his mother Helena, will begin a building program that would rival ours today, 
and you'll find churches all over the Roman world. The churches being built 
very much like the public buildings of Rome, and Greece. They were not 
necessarily temples and that type of thing, at this particular time. The 
Christians were very careful in their adaptation to the Roman culture, but 
they found that Constantine was very favorable, and so it wasn't long before 
they would begin to blend into the culture of Rome. We begin to see some of 
the culture of Rome getting into the church very early in the period of the 
3rd, or 4th century. In the period of the year 300. But is wasn't long before 
the emperor of Rome, Constantine, began to purge out pagan religions. And the 
dominant religion became Christianity. Now, what were we going to do with 
these marvelous temples to the pagan Gods? Well, you basically either take 
them down,  or you use them. And a combination of things are now taking place.
  
    The temples that were torn down, the building materials that were taken 
from them were used for building churches. And wherever they were torn down, 
churches were built on the sites of pagan worship. Now we have the period for 
the glorious building of temples, both in the Greek, and the Roman style, for 
the early church. Now, one thought I thought you might find interesting,  as 
the emperor became the number one lay person in the church, a simple ceremony 
no longer sufficed. The pomp and circumstances of the imperial court, was 
adapted to honor the emperor of emperors. Processionals, lights, special dress,
and numerous other elements added to the grand setting. That's where that took 
place. And so now we're changing the way we dress, and all these things took 
place. Now, let me give you a little bit of help here, because, if you're going
to have hope in the future, 

  I really believe you have to understand where we're at, and how we got here.
It was in this period of 300 AD to 600 AD, that, now keep in mind this is all
new in 300 AD, the church is simple, like I told you, the church, Praise the 
Lord, had communion, they had a lot of joy,  By 300 to 600 AD the church was 
praying for the dead. This is the Christian church!, worship of saints and 
angels started, they began to worship Mary, doctrines of purgatory were 
introduced, and prayers directed to Mary at the end of 300 AD. And the reason 
they directed their prayers to Mary was they thought that she had some clout 
with God, and frankly, if you really study history, and God help us, but we 
just don't study it, this is the Christian church now. We may go back and say 
this is the Catholic church, that term was coined later, this is still the 
Christian church. If I was living then ,I would be in that Christian church. 
They believed that Mary would be able to get things done quicker, and would be 
willing to move on behalf of the prayer, maybe where Jesus wouldn't. Now that 
to me is an insult to my Lord. That suggests that his sacrificial suffering and 
death, as our High Priest intercessor was somehow insignificant. And so those 
were things that were taking place at that time.

   Perpetual virginity came about at that same period of time and that really 
takes away from what Jesus says when he talks about his brothers in Matthew 13.
We know that Jesus had brothers, and we know that Mary was the mother. You 
know, that's see, where I don't understand, I mean, if you walk outside,  and 
I say, when I came into the service this morning, the sun was shining, there 
wasn't a cloud in the sky, and 5 minutes later, would you just go out and tell 
me, if it's dark. And you come back and tell me there's not a thing in the sky, 
it's just as dark as can be. Well that's just downright stupid. I mean, I'm 
being honest, we know that it's 10:00 in the morning.  We know that it's light 
out. We know that the sun is breaking forth. And what happens is people just 
bound up in ignorance.  And then we go on down, in 709, that was the first 
time, that we started the practice of kissing the Popes foot. Now we have a 
Pope. The church has a Pope. That was not what God intended, We had elders, 
and bishops, and so. I want to take you back for a moment. 

  Peter the Apostle, who is also referred to as the first Pope, Peter the 
Apostle, who was preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, goes into the house of 
Cornelius, which we'll find in Acts 10, and 11, and he absolutely puts the
house in awe as he preaches the resurrection of Jesus. Immediately Cornelius 
falls down on his knees to worship Peter. Peter does the right thing, he says 
Get up! I am also a man like you. But by 709 AD, they not only let them get 
down, they were kissing their feet. And so I've been trying to decide if I 
should practice that myself, (congregation laughs) You know, not a bad idea in 
some ways,  I mean, a little worship now and then wouldn't hurt me now would 
it? (congregation laughs with Mike). By 786, they were worshipping of images 
and relics. Now I happened to be in Israel this year, and one place I went, 
and I'm not suggesting that martyrs when they're martyrs, that they shouldn't 
collect their bones... my kids got an interesting experience, because in this 
one monastery, and this is a Orthodox, this is not Catholic, this would be
your eastern Orthodox, and we went into this one room, and they had a mummified
priest, the last one to die in this century, and of course my kids had never 
seen anything like that, I mean, he's looking at them. And they had skulls, 
a whole basket full of skulls, and bones, and that's always bothered me. I 
don't know, maybe I'm just a little bit skittish on those things, but I never 
did like chalk across the board the wrong way either, you know that screech 
really just sends...you know makes me feel that way, we're standing there, and 
my kids, this is a new experience, but they collected these relics because in 
honor of the martyrs. And I'm not going to fault them for collecting relics, 
however I do feel they're better to be buried.. But I do say it was during 
this time the emperors and the Popes began to compete as to who could collect 
the most relics.

    And the emperor who protected Luther had over 5000 relics! Including a 
lock from Jesus's hair! And people would come, and they would be able to see 
these. And they prided themselves in having more relics than anyone else. They 
had bones, and pieces of skulls and fingernails, and they had them all 
identified, from what apostle. I don't know who took them out, but I mean all 
these things were taking place. Now this is what's happening in 786, they 
started worshipping images and relics. By 1079, celibacy for the priesthood 
that didn't start back in the 1st century. That started in the middle ages.
And look at all the problems we're having in our nation today. I heard on the 
news the other day, I think the Catholic church alone,  now I'm not putting 
them down alone, because the Protestant church, and our whole thing is so 
corrupt, but 500 million dollars being paid out in litigation, because of 
different forms of molestation's, and what have you. It's terrible! So...get 
married! I mean, you know...stop this thing that started in 1079. In 1090 they 
were using prayer beads, and in 1184, the Inquisition. Now the Inquisition was 
brought about because other people said "wait a minute!" I mean, in the first 
century, they read their Bibles. That's it, you know, we're going to prosecute 
you, and that's what they did. If you read the study, and stories of this time,
it was terrible. Let me give you an example,  Pope Innocent, I don't know,
that's the craziest name I've ever seen, Pope Innocent the 3rd,...He's 
everything BUT that, and his reign was 1198 to 1216. He said the successor of 
Peter is the Vicar of the church. He has been established as a mediator between
God and man, below God, but beyond man, less than God, but more than man, who 
shall judge all, and be judged by no one.

   Now, I want to just say this, we had some good Popes, and again, I'm 
referring to the Christian church, because we didn't reform the church until  
the 1500's, with Martin Luther. So if you want to talk about church history, 
that has to be my church history, and your church history. It's not a pleasant
period! But it is our history, but this guy here was something else. We've had 
a lot of bad pastors, but there were some very good Popes, but this guy wasn't 
one of them. About this time, we have the beginning of the crusades, now 
they needed money! And they started the crusades, and the crusades were 
designed to really take back Jerusalem, and endear themselves to the whole 
world, because the idea was really world dominion over all the leaders of the 
world, and those crusades lasted nearly 200 years. And if you really want to 
sit down, and talk with a Moslem, sometime, or a Jew, which I have, and if 
they know their history, I'll tell you why they don't like Christians. Now 
I've had several Moslems saved in this church, and that's somewhat of a miracle.
I understand, in that of itself. I'll tell you why the Jew, and the Moslem have
a problem., and I also have some friends here that have been saved that are 
Jews. But they go back and remember what happened when this church persecuted
the Moslems and the Jews, in this period of the crusades. And they brutalized 
them. And if it wasn't for leaders like Saleden, who was one of the great Arab 
leaders, who was much more charitable than any Pope, and much more charitable 
than any of the knights, if it hadn't been for guys like that, that God raised 
up, the world would have been worse off. To be honest, if you study history. 
He was a charitable man, who was raised up by the God, Saledan the Great, and 
if you know a little bit about history, you'll begin to understand why there 
is such antagonism. Now, it wasn't long until Pope Urban would promise 
spiritual rewards for victories in taking Jerusalem, including forgiveness of 
past sins. They needed more money, so they started a thing called indulgences, 
and that was the thing that really split the church, and that's when 
Luther raised up. They began to sell indulgences, like I come to Randy, and
say "Randy, if you'll give me 500 dollars today, I'll not only waive your past 
sins, but I'll take care of your future ones." And so he said, "that's a good 
deal man, I'll give you 500 dollars" And I go put it in the churches treasury, 
and he's taken care of. At the same time penance was introduced, these aren't 
old things men and women,  penance was introduced during the dark ages, and 
here's where you do different types of moratorial services. Every thing from, 
and Luther did it, like sleeping on a cold floor, you do all kinds of things 
to get God's favor.

   Now if that's the kind of God we serve, well, I'd be better off in hell 
folks. You know, to tell you the truth, cause I'd be going to end up there 
anyway. But I serve a God who is good. And I want to tell you, that because of 
God's goodness,  I hope, I can convince you, to want to serve Him. Not because 
of something you go out and do of your own. Now, that might give you an idea 
why the church has moved away from first century. Now that's all history. And 
any church can study church history. And any theologian in the Catholic church 
knows their history. And they will admit, many of them , will tell you that 
they have a very dark period in their own history, because it is the church, 
so we tend to separate the church, Catholic, and Protestant, but that didn't 
come about until the 1500's, so when you're talking about this period, it's our 
church folks. They're our forefathers. And that gives us a better idea. So I'm 
speaking against my own background. And why we have so many problems. 

  Now, let me take you to Marks gospel, and show you where we went wrong, and 
then bring you right up to date. I think you're going to be encouraged! And the 
reason I think you're going to be encouraged, I think  you're going to find 
some similarities to today's church, at least, in many of the churches, and 
certainly I think in our church, that you'll find in the early church. We've 
gotten rid of our relics! Jesus said in Mark 7, verse 6,  He answered and said,
now these are the religious leaders, they were also hyping the people, and put 
all kinds of laws on them that they couldn't carry, this has been going on for 
years, someone is always trying to rule over someone else,  and there is enough
ignorant people running around that want to be ruled over, there will always be
plenty of people, and that may be an insult, I'm assuming I don't have any 
ignorant people in here, and that's why I said that. If you were all ignorant 
I wouldn't have said that. I really trust you, I believe you're smarter than 
that. He answered and said to them, Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites,
as it is written, this people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far 
from me, and in vain they worship me,  teaching as doctrine, the commandments 
of men. That's the problem, we're teaching as doctrine in the world, the 
commandments of men! They're not worshipping Jesus, they're worshipping 
fingernails, and hair and stuff. And then he says in verse 9, And He said to 
them, All too well, you reject the commandment of God that you may keep your 
tradition. God, Help the Home church to cast off the traditions that are man
made! Help me! So that we might worship in simplicity. Verse 13,  They make 
the word of God no effect, through your tradition, that you have handed down,
and many such things you do.

   That's very clear men and women.  It took 1500 years, well not 1500, but
after this period of time, probably from, well I'm not sure exactly of the
year, because you couldn't say from Constantine, because the church was still 
strong. It was still strong when they had Popes, of some degree, then it
started gravitating towards the dark ages, but certainly by the time of Martin
Luther, he finally came to the conclusion, that the Bible was saying, by grace,
by God's grace you're saved. Now, I want to bring you all the way forward, just 
to another period of history. Because I think you have to be wondering in your
mind, what's going to happen to the church in the future. Let me give you a 
period of time that I spoke about last week,  and this was a period of time 
during the 1700's,  when we heard from Jonathan Edward's own mouth, that the 
church was in the worst state he'd ever seen it. I mean the most deplorable 
conditions is what he called it. Now, there was a war that came about in the 
1700's, called King Phillips war, for King Philip was an indian. And this war 
nearly, it very likely could have annihilated  the colonies, and we would not 
have had a country. 

   A lot of people don't know about this period of history. It says here, the 
aftermath of the war, which cost proportionately more lives than any other war 
in Americans history, and loaded the survivors with crippling death. And so 
proportionate to the amount of population, this war, that most Americans don't 
know about, actually cost more lives than any other war. I mean, I've studied 
that period, and it was terrible what was going on. And it is God's grace that 
we survived. The colonies, because of their being scattered out in the various 
towns, and countrysides, could not stand up against the onslaught of King 
Philips indians. Now, let me give you a perspective, because this should help 
you understand the church today. It says, but when, I'm going to keep in mind, 
whole villages were totally killed. Men women, children! It was a brutal war. 
But even when the most isolated settlements had striven to keep faith with God,
and with one another, God kept faith with them. According to a history of the 
town of Sudbury the reason that Sudbury, rather than conquered, was chosen by 
the indians, as their next point of attack, was that the indians feared the 
influence of Concord's minister, Edward Borkely, had with the Great Spirit. 
Powerful! The history quotes an old indian chronicle as follows, "We no prosper 
if we burn Concord, the Great Spirit love that people. He tell us not to go 
there. They have a great man there, He great pray." Now that's history. And so 
the settlements that were moving in the Spirit of God, we spared. The indians 
were smart enough to realize that. And if you know anything about that period, 
it was because a great revival was taking place among the indians. And it even 
split the indians, like it splits churches today.

   Now, let me read this, because in all fairness to the indians, it is one of 
the exquisite ironies of divine justice, that the instruments with which God 
chose to turn the tide were ones which had until the coming of the settlers, 
belonged to Satan. These were none other than the preying indians. Those who 
had been converted to Christianity. These had remained loyal to the settlers, 
even though in the initial shock wave of panic, they had been the focal point 
of much hatred. Now when this took place, they actually interned the indians. 
It was a tremendous hostility. But listen, but when they were finally trusted 
enough to be given arms and combat assignments, these Christians indians 
became scouts, the eyes and ears of the colonial forces, whenever they had to 
maneuver in heavy cover. which was whenever they sought to carry the battle to 
the indians. Now, instead of stumbling about helplessly, now, for the first 
time, the colonials could move swiftly, and with confidence through the 
densest forests. And it was the Christian indians who made the difference. God 
used his newest sons,  who had until recently been called sons of the devil, 
by those very settlers they were now helping to save. And history tells us, 
and now the settlers were learning the tactics, that a century later, would 
confound and utterly frustrate the British regulars under General Howe. And 
I'm studying that period of history now in a book called "the Glorious Cause" 
by Oxford, and it is fascinating as how God preserved this union. And it was 
the indians who taught them how to fight. And when the British came over, they 
didn't know how to stand, They'd never fought that way before. And the colonials
were taught by the indians, and it was that kind of fighting that preserved 
the American forces. And you go on, and on, and on. 

   Now, it appears to me, as I study church history, that God preserves those 
who seek Him. I believe as a church, if we are seeking God, in the elements of 
worship that were in the first century church we are not going to be left to 
chance. We're going to be left to God. And God is sufficient. Worshipping, 
praising, simplicity, all the factors that make up the early church. Paul we 
are told met in the school in Tyrannus, which was a lecture hall. Early writings
tell us that the apostles also met in grain storage facilities. They met 
wherever they could. And when I was reading the history, I thought, hey I feel 
good about that. You know, they were meeting in places like we're meeting in 
today. They converted buildings and what have you, to meet, and gather together.

   Now in closing, let me give you a thought. If you read James Dobson, who is 
very well respected in our nation,  and has recently been appointed to a 
commission by Senator Dole, regarding family values, in his last newsletter, 
he points out all the negative things that have happened in this year. And if 
you read it, it reads, and you say, my goodness, I mean, what help is there? 
Thank God at the end, he writes some other things. And he tells us that the 
pattern in our society is a dramatic decline, indeed, the value system that 
has served us well for 217 years, may not survive the next decade. Then he 
goes on, and he mentions some things that are very important. High on the list 
of good news, is the prayer movement spreading across North America. Now, I've 
studied history, and wherever there is the decline, as in the deplorable state 
that we're in today, when God began to raise up people to pray, the nation 
began to change! We're not going back to the dark ages, we're not going back to 
worshipping relics, we're not going back to coming under personality cults, 
we're going ahead, so that when the end comes,  it'll be like the beginning. 
Alpha and the Omega. The first and the last. The beginning and the end. The 
author and the finisher. And that's important to understand. I think we're 
right in the pinnacle, right now. And then he goes on and he talks about David 
Bryant., we've been working with David now for several years, and his concert 
of prayers, sweeping across America. And we may go to a concert of prayer, and 
say, "Aw, big deal,  5000, or 5500 people come out and pray, you know, that's 
not a lot of people." But you know something, when it's all over America, and 
when it's the Spirit of God, it doesn't take a lot of people. And then the 
schools of prayer by Dick Eastman. He mentions the prayer summons,  that we've 
had now for 2 years in our area, involving over 3000 pastors, the national day 
of prayer, headed by his wife, Shirley. He said this last year, he had an 
unprecedented response, and 49 of 50 states governors issued prayer
proclamations last year. I think something's in the wind The Spirit is moving! 
   
   Then he tells us about the promise keepers, and we have men from this 
church that have gone to that.  He said it is one of the most phenomenal 
things in Christendom!  That has ever happened!  He said that 20 years ago, 
when he would have seminars for husbands and wives,  the husbands typically 
attended that because their wives made them. But he said now 50,000 men jammed 
Folsom field to worship, and sing, and learn and share in Christian fellowship.
In Boulder Colorado, and now they're expanding that to include Portland, and 
Los Angeles. And he says equally encouraging is the revival among the youth! 
And he refers to "See you at the flagpole" where there are millions of kids 
now, I mean, that are taking hold. You know, our High School kids, they don't 
want someone to come in and teach them how to adapt to a Roman culture. They 
want someone to tell them that there is something that is more exciting than 
drugs! Something more exciting than sex. Something more exciting than alcohol. 
They want someone to come in and say "you can change the course of history". 
You can challenge the authority in your school, and your peers.  And when 
someone comes and does that, they're encouraged, because they want to know 
they can make a difference! That's what is going on. And there has to be a 
difference. And the reason I give you some of the history is because for to 
give you hope that there is a tomorrow. If I didn't believe this, I would pack 
my bags, sell my house, take my equity, and move my family somewhere where I 
can hide. Until the Lord comes. It'd be my luck he'd miss that place. (more 
laughter) God didn't call us to run, He called us to stand. 

  This Friday night, we're going to have a concert of prayer. This is our own 
concert of prayer. And we're doing this in concert with a lot of churches. And 
as we gather together this Friday night, we're going to come together, and 
we're going to bow our knee, and we're going to worship, and we're going to 
come before God, and we're going to pray,  God, move upon our nation. And I 
believe that as we come and we pray, and we're trying to provide these 
opportunities on Friday nights, so that people can come, and just get their 
hearts ready before the Lord, don't wait until it's too late! And say Oh I 
wish I had done this. I've heard so many people say, oh if I'd only lived this 
way, oh if I'd only done this, lets just do it! Let's just do it. And as we 
gather together this Friday, and we pray, and we ask God, I think you'll find, 
across the nation, there are millions of others that are praying. And then when
the time comes, and God moves, you can say, I was a part of it. I did my part.
And I believe right now if we act, like the early church acted, we're going to 
see God acting in a way He is capable, and will act. And the thing that 
encourages me, men and women, as I look at church history,  is that we're 
closer to the beginning than we've ever been in the history of the world. 
We forget that, because we can come up and talk about perversion, and what's 
in the paper, all the crime, and all the wars, and all the earthquakes,  and 
all the floods the monsoons, and I could go on, I could give you a list of a 
thousand things. But we got to remember that today the church appears to be 
coming back to it's roots. And if it's only a few churches, it's still a sign 
that the Holy Spirit is doing something significant in the earth. And now we 
should be filled with hope. And now we should move practically into Acts, 
chapter 3. Next week, not today. And there is some practical lessons on how to 
walk now, by faith. Let us pray.

    Father in heaven, Father on the earth, Father in our hearts, Father 
dictating the terms and course of the whole earth, come, come and move upon 
the people. Lord, I could preach until my voice failed, and I couldn't make 
one person get into your book,  I couldn't cause one person to want to know 
you better. But by the power of the Holy Spirit,  these words that are frail, 
could be made powerful, And Holy Spirit, come, and take the weakness of my 
limitations, take the weakness of my frailty, Lord, and take the words that you 
have given me, and make them as life to the hearers, casting out what is chaff,
and keeping what is seed. Lord, may it go deep so that we begin to believe, 
and in believing, we become part of the change of our future. And we thank you,
and we give you praise. Mighty God, in the Name of Jesus, Amen.

There surely is quite a bit of false teaching in that sermon.

    Time for a plug for one of my favorite books on church history.  If you
    can get your hands on it, find a copy of "The Pilgrim Church" by E.H.
    Broadbent.
    
    Mark L.

    re- .12
    
    John,
    
    Please be so kind to point these errors out, that I may approach the
    minister with the information. If he is unwilling to accept your
    understanding, I then must decide who is correct, and if it's not him,
    I should look for another church to attend. Is this correct thinking on
    my part?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob

For starters:

It is a common falsehood to claim that Mary, or images, or relics are
worshipped.  Those entire sections are false.

/john

    thanks for the sermon Bob... a thousand thanks
    
    I've extracted it and it should make for some interesting grist for the
    mill.
    
    -Rick

From the First Apology in Defense of Divine Images by John of Damascus,
Priest.  [c. 760]

In former times God, who is without form or body, could never be depicted.
But now when God is seen in the flesh conversing with humankind, I make
an image of the God whom I see.  I do not worship matter; I worship the
Creator of matter who became matter for my sake, who willed to take his
abode in matter; who worked out my salvation through matter.  Never will
I cease honoring the matter which wrought my salvation!  I honor it, but
not as God.  How could God be born out of things which have no existence
in themselves?  God's body is God because it is joined to his person by
a union which shall never pass away.  The divine nature remains the same;
the flesh created in time is quickened by a reason-endowed soul.  Because
of this I salute all remaining matter with reverence, because God has
filled it with his grace and power.  Through it my salvation has come
to me.

Was not the thrice-happy and thrice-blessed wood of the cross matter?
Was not the holy and exalted mountain of Calvary matter?  What of the
life-bearing rock, the holy and life-giving tomb, the fountain of our
resurrection, was it not matter?  Is not the ink in the most holy
Gospel-book matter?  Is not the life-giving altar made of matter?  From
them we make crosses, patens, chalices!   And over and above all these
things, is not the Body and Blood of our Lord matter?  Either do away
with the honor and vneration these things deserve, or accept the tradition
of the Church, and the veneration [NOT WORSHIP] of images.

Reverence God and his friends; follow the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Do not despise matter, for it is not despicable.  God has made nothing
despicable.  To think such things is Manichaeism.  Only that which does
not have its source in God is despicable -- that which is our own invention,
our willful choice to diregard the law of God -- namely, sin.

Mr Covert,

Please delineate the difference (as you best understand it) between
veneration and worship.

Per Webster's New World Dictionary:

Venerate [<Latin venerari, to worship] to look upon with feeling of
         deep respect; revere.

Worship  [<Old English weorthscipe] 1. to show religious reverence for.
         2. to have intense lovr or admiration for

Especially given the nearly identical roots of the words, and the observable
fact that is that there is very little difference in the practice of the 
veneration of Mary (insert your favorite Saint's name here) or of the Eucharist 
(the communion wafer after it has been through the requisite liturgy).
I view the difference as grasping at symantical straws enable using a less
well known word in place of a more colloquial and damning one.

FWIW,

Brian

    RE:7

    There is a misconception  in the statement that the first century
    Christians were rooted in their Bible. Perhaps he meant to say
    they were rooted in the Gospel, because there was no Bible for
    first century Christians to read. The Gospel was taught orally
    and through pictures drawn on the homes of Christians and in the
    different places where they met to worship.

    Christians didn't only worship in homes. They worshiped in
    underground catacombs and other remote places. The Church was under
    persecution in those days. Often they had to gather and worship in secret.

    Also the statement about adding water to wine to dilute it is
    misleading. Adding water to wine was and is still done at Mass,
    to represent  the blood of Christ, for when the soldier thrust a 
    spear into the side of Christ blood and water came forth. John 19:34.

          Jim

    re: .19
    
    Hi Jim,
    
    I think what is meant by being "rooted in their Bible" is that the
    the first believers (who were Jews) were well rooted in the Torah,
    Prophets, and Writings.  
    
    steve
                                                  

Yes, don't forget that what we know as the Old Testament was very much
in existence at the time of early church.  This is the Tanakh: made up 
of the Torah (5 books of Moses, Pentateuch), the Prophets, and the Writings.
It is scripture_- God's revelation, and unfolds His plan for redemption
and salvation through the Messiah, who came from the Jewish people.

Leslie

Brian,

The difference (using a better dictionary, the G.C. Merriam-Webster):

>Venerate [<Latin venerari, to worship] to look upon with feeling of
>         deep respect; revere.

"Venerari" is not Latin for worship of God.  "Latria" is worship of God.

The G.C. Merriam-Webster defines veneration as "A feeling of respect mingled
by awe excited by the dignity, wisdom, or superiority of a person, by
sacredness of character, by consecrated state, or by hallowed association."

Worship  [<Old English weorthscipe] 1. to show religious reverence for.
         2. to have intense lovr or admiration for

The G.C. Merriam-Webster defines worship as "The reverence or veneration
accorded to a divine being or supernatural power."

The words used in the definitions of the Councils of the early Church which
dealt with this issue are "latria" for worship due to God alone and "dulia"
for honor accorded to persons who are examples of the Christian life.  These
words come from Greek, and have shades of meaning not easily expressed in
other languages -- much like the many different Greek words for "love" which
each express clearly different concepts.  You need to look at the official
definitions of the Church, not at etymology.

>Given ... the observable fact that is that there is very little difference
>in the practice of the veneration of Mary ...

To be polite, your powers of observation appear to require some development.
See below.

>... or of the Eucharist

Well, of course, there is a whole topic in which I have posted writings of
early Church Fathers that show that from the earliest days the Church took
Our Lord's words "This is my Body" (as quoted in the Gospel accounts these
same Fathers held to be canonical Scripture) _quite_literally.  That means
that God is REALLY and SPIRITUALLY _PRESENT_ in the consecrated species in
a way that He is present nowhere else since His Resurrection -- except in
heaven.

The Eucharist is not just venerated -- it is "the Bread of the Presence",
it is God and He in His Presence is worshipped.  An observable fact: we
genuflect (bend the knee) to the Eucharist and not to Mary or any other
Saint.  When observing, please discuss with those you are observing in
order to understand what is "fact" and what is "perception."

[I guess you're gone and won't get to read this.  Too bad.]

/john

    re:20

    Hi Steve,
    
    Being that many of the first century Christians were pagan's prior to
    their conversions, they were probably more rooted in the Gospel, that 
    was given to them through word of mouth. 

     Jim

A gross generalization but this next statement sums up the criticisms
the Catholics and Protestants have against each other regarding Mary:

The Catholics adore Mary.
The Protestants ignore Mary.

It might be good to find some middle ground and move on from here.
Mary was obedient to God and performed a specific function for God,
like Moses leading the Israelites out of bondage, and Abraham who
followed God by faith and out of whom came His chosen people.  We honor
Abraham and Moses, and other, and so we should honor Mary.
I want to add the phrase, no more and no less, though I imagine it 
may stir up some further disagreement.

Mark

    re: .23
    
    Hi again Jim,
    
    You've really got two "sets" of believers, so-to-speak.  You've got the
    Jews from Israel and other locations (who came to the pilgrim feasts in
    Jersualem) and the "goyim" - those from the nations who were mainly
    idolaters and pagans.  For the Jews, there was no issue of "conversion"
    from being Jewish to being "Christian" - it was an issue of believing
    that the ancient Promise had now been fulfilled.  All that was written
    of in the Scriptures (the Tanakh as Leslie referred to earlier) was
    fulfilled in Yeshua, according to those Jews who believed him to be the
    promised Messiah.
    
    For the Gentiles, it was quite another story!  In fact, Ephesians has
    much to say about the great mystery now being made known...that those
    who were once far off (Gentiles) were now being drawn in.  A life of
    idolatry and paganism was now completely changed to faith in the one
    true G-d of the Universe through Yeshua the Messiah.  For these people,
    who had very little (in some cases) or no (in most cases) knowledge of
    the Jewish Scriptures, you're right - the Gospel was a word-of-mouth
    kind of experience, followed up with the letters we can read from the
    apostles.
    
    Steve

    I'm wierd like Jay in that I get hooked on subjects now and then ;-) 
    Currently I've been wanting to study on early church history.  Anyone
    know of some good books on the subject that they would recommend?
    
    thanks,
    Mike

    try...

    The History of the Christian Church from the earliest times to AD461

    by FJ Foakes Jackson D.D.

    6th Ed. Cambridge: Deighton, Bell and Co, Ltd
            London: Simpkin, Marshall Ltd

    pub. 1947

 Have you tried Acts, Mike?

    Sure have Jim, but I'm looking to pick up where Acts ends. ;-)

 ;-)

Here is an excerpt about life in the early Church, written as though the
events were occuring in London rather than Rome:

   It is very easy for us to romanticise the life and worship of the
   primitive Christians. What was conventional in the social setting
   of their day has for us the picturesqueness of the strange and
   remote; what was straightforward directness in their worship has
   for us the majesty of antiquity.  It is a useful thing occasionally
   to transpose it all into the conventions of our own day and look at
   the result.
   
   Suppose you were a grocer in Brondesbury, a tradesman in a small way
   of business, as so many of the early Roman Christians were.  Week by
   week at half-past four or five o'clock on Sunday morning (an ordinary
   working-day in pagan Rome) before most people were stirring, you
   would set out through the silent streets, with something in your
   pocket looking very like what we should call a bun or a scone.  At
   the end of your walk you would slip in through the mews at the back
   of one of the big houses near Hyde Park, owned by a wealthy Christian
   woman.  There in her big drawing-room, looking just as it did every
   day, you would find the `church' assembling -- socially a very mixed
   gathering indeed.  A man would look at you keenly as you went in, the
   deacon `observing those who come in' [Didascalia, ii.57], but he
   knows you and smiles and says something.  Inside you mostly knew one
   another well, you exchange greetings and nod and smile; (people who
   are jointly risking at the least penal servitude for life by what
   they are doing generally make certain that they know their
   associates).  At the other end of the drawing-room sitting in the
   best arm-chair is an elderly man, a gentleman by his clothes but
   nothing out of the ordinary -- the bishop of London.  On either side
   of him is standing another man, perhaps talking quietly to him.  On
   chairs in a semicircle facing down the room, looking very obviously
   like what they are -- a committee -- sit the presbyters.  In front of
   them is a small drawing-room table.
   
   The Eucharist is about to begin.  The bishop stands and greets the
   church.  At once there is silence and order, and the church replies. 
   Then each man turns and grasps his neighbour strongly and warmly by
   both hands.  (I am trying to represent the ancient by a modern
   convention.  The kiss was anciently a much commoner salutation than
   it is with us in England, but it implied more affection than does
   merely `shaking-hands' with us.)  The two men by the bishop spread a
   white table-cloth on the table, and then stand in front of it, one
   holding a silver salver and the other a two-handled silver
   loving-cup.  One by one you all file up and put your little scones on
   the salver and pour a little wine into the loving-cup.  Then some of
   the scones are piled together before the bishop on the cloth, and he
   adds another for himself, while water is poured into the wine in the
   cup and it is set before him.  In silence he and the presbyters stand
   with their hands outstretched over the offerings, and then follow the
   dialogue and the chanted prayer lasting perhaps five minutes or
   rather less.  You all answer `Amen' and there follows a pause as the
   bishop breaks one of the scones and eats a piece.  He stands a moment
   in prayer and then takes three sips from the cup, while the two men
   beside him break the other scones into pieces.  To each of those
   around him he gives a small piece and three sips from the cup.  Then
   with the broken bread piled on the salver he comes forward and stands
   before the table with one of the deacons in a lounge suit standing
   beside him with the cup.  One by one you file up again to receive in
   your hands `The Bread of Heaven in Christ Jesus', and pass on to take
   three sips from the cup held by the deacon, 'In God the Father
   Almighty and in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit in the
   holy church', to which you answer `Amen'; then you all file back
   again to where you were standing before.  There is a moment's pause
   when all have finished, and then most of you go up to the bishop
   again with a little silver box like a snuff-box into which he places
   some fragments of the Bread.  You stow it in an inside pocket,
   reflecting perhaps that Tarcisius was lynched six months ago for
   being caught with one of those little boxes upon him.  There is
   another pause while the vessels are cleansed, and then someone says
   loudly `That's all.  Good morning, everybody.'  and in twos and
   threes you slip out again through the back door or the area door and
   go home -- twenty minutes after you came in.  That is all there is to
   it, externally.  It would be absolutely meaningless to an outsider,
   and quite unimpressive.
   
   					(cont'd.)

   But perhaps it did not all end quite so easily.  You might very well
   never walk back up Maida Vale again.  Perhaps the bishop stopped to
   speak to someone on the front-door steps as he want out, and was
   recognised by a casual passer-by who set up a great shout of
   `Christian! Christian!'  And before anyone quite realised what was
   happening a small jostling crowd had collected from nowhere and
   someone had thrown a brick through one of the windows; doors and
   windows were opening all down the street and there was a hubbub of
   jeers and yells, till a policeman arrived majestically, demanding
   "Wot's all this 'ere?"  "It's those _________ Christians again!"
   shouts someone, and the policeman gets out his notebook and looks
   severely at the bishop standing with the two deacons just behind him
   at the foot of the steps.  And then in response to the accusing
   shouts of the elbowing crowd there comes the deadly challenge from
   the policeman, `Is that right that you're a Christian?'  And the
   bishop admits he is a Christian. "There's another of them", says
   someone, pointing at one of the deacons.  `There's a whole gang of
   them in there.'  The deacons briefly admit their faith, and the
   policeman looks doubtfully at the house.  It's said that they always
   come quietly, but one never knows.  He blows his whistle, more police
   arrive, the house is entered, and soon afterwards twenty-two people,
   including the bishop and his deacons and the little grocer from
   Brondesbury, are marched off to the station.
   
   The proceedings are by summary jurisdiction, as in the case of a raid
   on a night-club with us.  They are all charged together `with being
   Christians', i.e. members of an unlawful association.  Each is asked
   in turn whether he pleads guilty or not guilty.  If he answers
   `guilty', his case is virtually decided.  The magistrate is perfectly
   aware of the Christian rule of never denying their religion. 
   Someone's courage fails at the critical moment and he falters `Not
   guilty.'  Then there is a simple further test to be applied.  At the
   side of the court-room is hung a picture of the king.  `Just go and
   kneel in front of that picture and say "Lord have mercy upon me",
   will you?' says the magistrate.  Some of the accused go through the
   prescribed test with white faces and faltering lips.  One goes to the
   picture to do so and his conscience suddenly gets the better of his
   fear; he knocks the picture off the wall in a revulsion of nervous
   anger.  He is hustled back to the dock and the picture is hung up
   again.  The magistrate, a reasonable man, again asks each of those
   who have pleaded guilty whether they will even now go through the
   little ceremony.  They all refuse.  There is no more to be done, no
   possible doubt as to the law on the matter: "non licet esse
   christianos;" `Christians may not exist.'  The legal penalty is
   death, and there is no ground of appeal.  As a rule there is no
   delay.  Unless they were reserved for the arena, sentences on
   Christians were usually carried out on the same day.  So in our
   modern analogy fifteen Christians were hanged that afternoon at
   Wandsworth.  On other occasions the policy of the administration
   might have caused private instructions to be issued to the
   magistrates that the law against Christianity is not to be too
   strictly enforced for the present; a sentence of the `cat,' penal
   servitude for life and transportation would have been substituted for
   the death-penalty.  Whether this was really much more merciful may be
   doubted.  The imperial lead-mines in Sardinia, for instance, which
   were the usual convict-station for Roman Christians in such a case,
   must have been even more like Devil's Island than Botany Bay.  Most
   of the prisoners died within two or three years.
   
   We shall not begin to understand what the Eucharist meant to
   Christians until we have estimated this background of real danger and
   intense hatred in a setting of absolutely normal daily life.
   
   				-- The Shape of the Liturgy, p. 142ff
   				   Dom Gregory Dix
   				   ISBN 0-7136-0389-5

    A RON sent me a few sources to check out with respect to this topic:
    
  "One good book on church history is (something like) The Lions Book
  of Church History. It's a really good read, very colorful. It covers
  all the major highlights of church history. I would highly recomend it
  (I've seen it in CBD in the past).

  Another is the New International Dictionary of the Christian Church.
  Its a great dictionary of the people places things etc. as is The
  New Dictionary of Theology.

  Moody puts one out called (again something like) Great leaders of the
  of the Christian Church. It gives a outline, then text for each of the
  prominent leaders of the church up to now. It's another good, colorful
  book..."

	http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/christian-history.html

    what a *neat* site - thanks