Conference yukon::christian_v7

    Jay, (and anyone else that feels this way)
    
    I am usually a read only, but once again a nerve has been struck.
    
    You (maybe all of you) may be scholars, but obviously you know nothing
    about the Catholic Faith. I suggest before you criticize and insult
    the Catholics beliefs, that you sign up for a RCA course which is 
    specifically designed for people that have no idea what they are 
    talking about but would like to better understand our beliefs and
    traditions.
    
    Although our practices may differ, as most denominations do, I do
    feel our goal is a common goal. I am a firm believer in respecting
    all christian faiths.
    
    Terri

	Terri, that last line of your note really says it all.

    re: -.1

-.2>  Terri

???

John, you can't really expect to make the intense backhanded slap in the face
to Jay that you did in .1 and then, when he responds, say "Hey, I was just
asking about the Nicolatian heresy."

Could both of you perhaps *talk* instead of shout invective back and forth at
each other?  Or if you need to shout invective, could you maybe do it in mail
and spare us having to watch?

Paul

It's quite possible to point out untruths and ask for clarification without
the level of insult that you (both) seem to feel is necessary.

Paul

>    It is not possible to point out untruths and get clarification here

I would disagree, Jay.  I have seen both done, and done well, here.  While
it's true that I have seen many situations where it could not be done, I
think that a sweeping generalization of impossibility is an overstatement.

Paul

    	Hey, who is this Nicolaitain guy?  He a ballplayer or sumptin'?

 Previous note hidden for inappropriate language.






 Jim Co Mod

    So are we now infallable in matters of faith and morals?   ;-)
    

    .15
    
    John, I wonder sometimes that you try, try and try again.
    
    

    I am very sorry, but John hasn't tried. He has yet to provide any
    doctrine (biblical or otherwise) proving me bogus. And people wonder
    why I get angry. duh! :-) :-) 
    

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are
they which testify of me.

Matthew 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor
the power of God.

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and
keep those things which are written therein; for the time is at hand.

Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the
word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether
those things were so.

      Maybe it means I'm not a scholar, but I don't know what it
      is!  I thought I might have been told what it is once or
      twice, but if I was, I forget!
    
    						Tony

    re: 26 
           	brilliant.
    
    Acts 17:11
    These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received
    the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily,
    whether those things were so.
    
       One of my favorite verses in the bible.  

    I came across another one along these lines:
    
    "And that from a child you have known the holy scriptures
     which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith
     which is in Jesus Christ."
        II TIM 3:16

    reply .24
| "I'm very sorry that John hasn't tried"


   I really think John has been trying long, maybe too long.
   
   When I say this I am thinking of the following:
   
   1)- Does John's opinion mean anything to you?
     - Would you believe any proof, if he presented it?
   
   2)- Should one continue preaching to the converted when there are millions         
       out there who are hungry to hear the word of God, for whom we don't         
       have time?
   3)- How much of our questions and answers are in support of our own ego.? 
   
   
   When I look back over the last months the following words come to mind:
   "There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see".
   But then seeing another ones point of view is only possible with the grace 
   of God.
   
   John's opinions however much I support them shouldn't be so important to 
   me that I become angry. Anger and disagreements over religion is the 
   devils work. He loves division of churches because divided, we don't 
   become strong.
   
   More important than John's thoughts, proof or opinions should be your 
   relationship with Jesus who can reveal all things to you if you so ask 
   Him. Please deepen your relationship with Jesus, open your heart and 
   listen to Him. To reconcile with your brother is what Jesus asks and is 
   more important than defending your opinions. "For it is by the fruits that 
   you will know them". Not from their words.
   
   In Love I write this and ask the blessing of God on both of you.
   
   Peter  
   
   
   

reply .32 set hidden by the moderators.

Paul

    A Nicolatian spirit (or attitude) is when the layman is controlled in
    his thinking by the leader(s) of a Church. If leaders of the church
    claim to have special 'secret' knowledge from God and they dole it out
    in such a way to control or mislead (they might not know they are
    doing it), thats an example. 
    
    Another example of this is a pastor or theologian who sets themselves
    up as infallable, and who proclaim things that they claim are beyond 
    questioning. Legalism.
    
    jay
     

Huh.  I always thought the Nicolatian Heresy was another version of "You are
saved by grace, so do whatever you want, there's no such thing as sin any
more."  What you're saying sounds significantly different.  But I'm not
really sure enough in what I learned before to say.

Maybe the Nicolatian leaders said they had secret knowledge from God that
people could do whatever they want and didn't explain it to people, just told
them to accept it?

I don't know.  Could someone fill in more?

Paul

    From what I understand of what you are saying, That would sound like
    another example to me. In my opinion, it was far more widespread in the
    middle ages. it's probably widespread as much now, just on a different
    level. ( Jim Jones Temple, Waco, Home shopping club ect.)
    I don't know for sure, but in our modern world (or as some preachers
    say, "our modwren world"), in the me generation and the race for
    prosperity and "I want it all the way I want it" thing, it's probably
    been turned into a Neo-Orthodox thing where people unknowingly take
    the bible as a book to "support their life". Rather than the other way
    around. Course I've never er...been guilty of this, so I guess I would
    of course i no idea in the world about it. :-)
     
    

    You can add all of Psalm 119 to the list of the "searching the
    Scriptures..."

....and just when I thought we might actually get back on topic here.


This note write-locked until further notice.

Paul
[Moderator]