Conference yukon::christian_v7

I think it is great.  Be careful to not allow these expressions become a
prescription, but rather a facilitator towards a closer walk.

    Exactly!  The object lessons that come through in exploring these
    holidays have really made God more real to my children.  They have fun
    with it, can really grasp it, and I can see a difference in how they
    talk of the things of God.
    
    Mike

      It's something my husband and I have been very interested in.
      We've done a tremendous amount of reading, taught an adult
      education class about the Biblical holy days at our church,
      and have been attending Messianic Jewish services on Saturday
      mornings pretty regularly this summer.  We've also been 
      incorporating some of the things we've been learning into our 
      worship at home.  I think it has given me a greater appreciation 
      for all that the Lord has done, and continues to do.

      Leslie 

    Makes me wish I was around for the services at Steve's church.  :-(

 "Hear, O Israel; the LORD our God is one.  Love the LORD your God with all 
  your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

  These commandments that I give to you are to be upon your hearts.  Impress 
  them upon your children.  Talk about them when you sit at home and when 
  you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up..."

							Deuteronomy 6:4-7


That's what it reminds me off. The whole Word of God is valid, real and 
living today, and the more we can explore it, the more we get to know our 
Father, and learn to be like Him.  It's to share and revel in...

I've been very blessed by learning from men like Arnold Fructenbaum and 
Alfred Edersheim, to see something of what the Bible meant to men who were 
in on the writing; the significance of phrases and situations which mean 
nothing to the western culture.  I've wearied of hearing preachers use a
passage of scripture purely as a vehicle to illustrate what may be a
perfectly valid doctrinal point, but seeming to overlook that the events
recorded had an historical value and significance of their own.  Let alone
those who dismiss as futile, reasoning they themselves do not understand. 

But I know so little myself in this area.  Lots of growing to do!

								Andrew

  I don't see any harm in studying the Hebrew culture and even celebrating
  or participating in the holidays, especially for Hebrew christians and 
  as Steve M points out, especially as an act of love which gives a deeper 
  meaning to His Blood Atonement and Second Coming.

  Trumpets is next. 

  And the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven... with the trump of God.

  Hank

>  Trumpets is next. 
>
>  And the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven... with the trump of God.
    
    maybe in more ways than one ;-)

'Literally' is an overworked word, often ludicrously applied totally out of 
context.  Perhaps that is just a British disease.  However, it's how I'd 
look for .7 to happen, Mike.... ;-)

							Andrew

      I'm kind'a looking forward to Trumpets happening like
      Nehemiah 8:1-12.
    
      Just a continuous and increasing revelation of 'the law.'
      A people coming to a certain fulness of a comprehension
      of the dimensions of agape.
    
                                              Tony

    
    
    	On the subject of judgement and Yom Teruah (Feast of Trumpets - which
    symbolizes judgement) I would like to share a dream I had on the morning 
    of Yom Teruah this year.
    
    I was in a group of 15-20 people, some believers, some not.  Those who
    were not believers were evil and dark, not to be pitied.  I had a
    tray of golden goblets, each filled with a deep red wine.  Wine is a 
    symbol of joy (kidush).  I also had a tray of identical goblets, filled
    with a deadly poison, also deep red in color.
    
    I remember in my dream thinking of the Scriptures of God and his wine
    press and the grapes of wrath.
    
    I was speaking to the group, and telling them all that everyone HAD to
    take a goblet and drink of it.  I was not speaking as the source of
    power or enforcement of that edict, but speaking it as a fact of
    reality, that God was behind that edict and that everyone would in fact
    at some time take a goblet and drink of it.  No force was necessary on
    my part to ensure that it would be done.  It WOULD be done by God (such 
    a finality and immutabitity in my dream of that fact).
    
    Everyone would get the cup that they deserved, a cup of joy if they
    were believers, and a cup of death if they were evil.
    
    I was allowed to taste a cup.  I wasn't scared to taste, because
    I knew mine was wine. It was so sweet to my taste, and I was
    filled with joy.
    
    
    Bob
    
    
    

 Thats in keeping with the "last" or seventh trump of Revelation (imo).
 Course that dosn't necessarily validate your dream, but might be a
 fulfilment (or the beginning) of Acts 2-Joel 2 events.

 Hank 

** This Feast is not prescribed by the Lord but Jesus Himself celebrated it. **

Each year, around the time we prepare to celebrate Christmas, our Jewish friends
celebrate Hannukah.  This year it falls on November 28 and is celebrated
through December 5.  It may come as a surprise to many that this holiday is
referenced in the NT.  In fact, it highlights a historical event that Jesus
Himself pointed to as the key to understanding the prophecies concerning His
return!

John Chapter 10 is, of course, the famous Good Shepherd discourse.  It clearly
speaks for itself and won't be dealt with here.  Verse 22, however, seems to be
a strange addition.  Right in the middle of the chapter the Holy Spirit notes
the following:

      "And it was at Jerusalem the feast of dedication, and it was winter."

Why is this reference here?  The most important discovery of my life was the
insight that the Bible is an *integrated message system.*  Although these 66
books were written by over 40 authors over thousands of years, we discover that
they are a unified whole.  Every word, every number, every place name, even the
implied punctuation is the result of supernatural engineering.

The rabbis in Israel have a quaint way of expressing this.  They say that we
won't really understand the Scriptures until the Messiah comes.  But when He
comes, He will not only interpret the passages for us; He will interpret the
very words; He will interpret the very letters; He will even interpret *the
spaces between the letters!*  I used to think this was a colorful exaggeration
until I read Matthew 5:17-18:

      "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am
      not come to destroy, but to fulfill.  For verily I say unto you, Till
      heaven and earth pass, one yot or one tittle shall in no way pass
      from the law, till all be fulfilled."

A "yot" or a "tittle" are like parts of Hebrew letters - about equivalent to our
dotting of an "i" or the crossing of a "t."  These words from our Lord Himself
seem to verify the rather extreme view of the rabbis.  Thus we discover that
every detail of the Bible is there by design.  This insight opens an entirely
new dimension of Bible study.  Every time you find a "mistake" or
"contradiction" in the Bible, rejoice: there is a discovery behind that apparent
discrepancy.  We have already concluded that nothing in Scripture is accidental
or trivial.  Why does this detail in John 10:22 exist?  What is the "feast of
dedication"?  The dedication is of the Temple, of course.  But let's explore
this further.

There have been only 2 temples: the original one built by Solomon, which was
ultimately destroyed by the Babylonians; and Nehemiah's, which was built when
the captives returned after the Babylonian Captivity.  This "Second Temple" was
subsequently expanded by Herod and was the Temple in place during the NT period.
Solomon's Temple was dedicated in the month of Ethanim, or Tishri.  This can't
be reference we're looking for since this was in the fall.  John 10:22 alludes
to a feast of dedication *in winter.*  Nehemiah's Temple was dedicated in the
month of Adar.  So this can't be it either since Adar is in the spring.  Now
we're really puzzled!  The key to this riddle lies in some historical
background.

A century earlier, in 168 B.C., the Seleucid ruler Antiochus IV ("Epiphanes")
was ruling over the province of Judea, and he decided to offend the Jews.  He
did a dandy job of it.  He arranged to have a pig slaughtered on the holy altar
of the Temple in Jerusalem.  He then tried to force the priests to eat it.  If
you remember how the Jews feel about pork, and also how they revere the Temple
and its altar, you can imagine how that went over!  But he didn't stop there.
He tried to prevent God's people from studying the Torah (God's Word).
Interesting sidebar: this is how the dreidel game came about.  When priests were
really studying the Torah and heard Antiochus' soldiers coming, they would pull
out the dreidel and pretend they were just playing a game.  Antiochus also had
prostitutes in the Temple courts defiling the grounds.  He defiled the sacred
Temple elements.  He also arranged to erect an idol of Zeus in the Holy of
Holies.  That did it.  The intense outrage that resulted led to the Maccabbean
revolt, which ultimately threw off the yoke of the Seleucid Empire and led to
the subsequent rule of the Hasmoneans.

On the 3rd anniversary of the desecration of the Temple, on the 25th of Kislev,
the Temple worship was re-established.  The altar and all of the vessels and
elements used in the earlier sacrilege were destroyed and replaced with new
ones, and the Temple was *rededicated.*  It is this rededication that is still
celebrated among the Jews to this very day as Hannukah.

The desecration of the Temple in 167 B.C. included an event known as the
"abomination of desolation."  This is a key technical term.  The term
"abomination" in the Bible is a common term for idol worship.  The "abomination
of desolation" refers to the *ultimate extreme* form of idol worship, placing
the idol on the most sacred spot on Planet Earth: in Jerusalem, in the Temple
precincts, in the Holy of Holies itself!  So why did the Holy Spirit highlight
Hannukah by alluding to it in the NT?  Because Jesus Himself pointed to this
specific detail as the key to understanding prophecy concerning the Last Days.

Four disciples came to Jesus privately, asking Him about His "Second Coming."
His response is so significant that it is recorded in 3 of the Gospels.  He
opened his briefing with a series of "non-signs": certain things which will
occur "but the end is not yet."  Then He highlighted a critical event as the key
to the prophecy:

     "When you, therefore, shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken
     of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whosoever readeth,
     let him understand), then let them who are in Judea flee into the
     mountains; Let him who is on the housetop not come down to take anything
     out of his house; Neither let him who is in the field return back to
     take his clothes."  Matthew 24:15-18

In other words, when this event happens, it will be essential for them to get
out of the country immediately!  Jesus did us all an enormous favor in verse 15.
He saved each of us many hours of tedious library research!  He attributed the
Book of Daniel to Daniel the prophet.  (It happens that Daniel is one of the
best documented books of the OT, but Jesus gave us a great short-cut.)  Anyone
who believes in Jesus Christ has no problem with authorship of Daniel.  (Anyone
who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ has much bigger problems than the authorship
of the Book of Daniel!)  Jesus' reference to the "abomination of desolation"
was, of course, made over a century *after* the historical even now commemorated
at Hannukah.  He was speaking of an event yet future.

In about 40 A.D. Caligula ordered his image to be installed in the Holy of
Holies.  Petronius, his general in Judea, realizing how vehement the Jew's
reaction would be declined to execute the order.  When Caligula found out, he
ordered the death of Petronius.  But Caligula died a few weeks later, and due to
a "mix-up" at sea, the message that Caligula had died *preceded* the order for
Petronius' execution, so his life was spared.  It is interesting how God
intervened to prevent another desecration of the Temple from happening until the
appointed time.  Has it happened yet?

Just as Jesus had predicted, in 69 A.D., the 5th, 10th, 12th, and 15th Roman
Legions under Titus Vespasian, laid siege to Jerusalem.  Over a million men,
women, and children were slaughtered in that terrible war.  Finally, on the 9th
of Av, 70 A.D., the Temple was destroyed.  There are those who view the
destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. as the "abomination of desolation."  There
are several problems with this view.

First, there was a war going on.  There was no opportunity for the Romans to
install false worship of any kind.  The Temple was inadvertently set on fire,
and the interior, which was wood overlaid with gold, burned thus melting the
gold.  The soldiers were ordered to take it apart stone by stone to recover the
gold, just as Jesus had predicted.  All of this was well documented by an eye
witness, Flavius Josephus, whose classic works are readily available.  The view
that the abomination of desolation has already occurred, in addition to being
historically inaccurate, also requires the bizarre *allegorization* of the rest
of Jesus' presentation.  (Matthew 24:29-31 hasn't happened yet; at least, not so
you'd notice!)  The abomination of desolation didn't happen in 70 A.D., and it
couldn't have happened over the subsequent 1900 years because there has been no
Temple in Jerusalem to be defiled.  It remains the key milestone to trigger the
exodus of those believers remaining in Jerusalem at that time.

When will it happen?  When there is, once again, a Temple in Jerusalem.  Three
times in the NT there is a reference to the rebuilding of the Temple prior to
the Second Coming of Christ.  Of course, the big news to Biblically sensitive
observers is that they are now getting to *rebuild the Temple.*  Over 200
priests are presently in training.  Almost all of the required implements have
been fabricated by the Temple Institute.  Semi-automatic looks are weaving the
linen for the priestly vestments.  The Murex snail needed to make the Levitical
blue and royal purple has been found after years of searching.
Ground-penetrating radar and infrared recordings are being used to find the
precise foundations of the original Temples.  The preparations continue despite
the political uncertainties.  The scientists and archaeologists will be giving
an update on progress at the Jerusalem Temple Conference this coming February.

The Holy Spirit put John 10:22 in the NT to highlight Daniel's famous prophecy
and to focus our attention on this key milestone in the endtime scenario.  So as
your Jewish friends celebrate Hannukah this year, let this commemoration also
remind you that preparations are presently underway to set the stage for the
final countdown.  What an exciting time to be alive!

     "Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for
      I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though
      it be told you."   Habakkuk 1:5    

	Well, I've never lived in Albuquerque, but we do seem to read the
same newsletters...

    Great stuff!

    The dreidel top (game) has the following Hebrew letters on it:
    
    Noon Gimel Hey Shin
    
    This is an acrostic for the Hebrew phrase "Nes Gadol Haya Sham" which
    means "A Great Miracle Happened There."  In Israel the Shin is replaced
    with a Pey so that it says "A Great Miracle Happened Here."
    
    Antiochus Epiphanes declared anyone caught studying the Torah would be
    executed.  The Hebrews would still studying it, but when the Greek
    soldiers came around, they would pull out their dreidels and act as if
    they were just playing a game.
    
    Happy Hannukah (Day 3),
    Mike

Day 1: "This Time and This Season"
----------------------------------
1. Read the story of Hannukah.
2. Ask some key questions to be sure all understand the story.
   a. What problems did the Jewish people face?  From whom?
   b. Who are some of the Jewish heroes?
   c. Why were they heroes?
   d. Why do we light lights on Hannukah?
   e. How can we be like the Maccabees today?
3. Relate that it is important that we remember what God has done for us in the
   past because, in doing so, we remember God, learn of His attributes and
   increase our faith to believe Him in the future.
4. Read Psalm 145:1-7

Day 2: "He that Keeps Israel"
-----------------------------
1. Briefly recount the historical events leading up to the first Hannukah.
2. Read 1 Maccabees 4:30-59
3. Given the historical context, ask these questions:
   a. Why do you think it is good to celebrate Hannukah?
   b. What can Hannukah teach us about God?  About His grace?  About His
      promises?  Point out that God made promises to keep Israel from never
      perishing as a people and that no one can utterly destroy Israel.  God has
      promised to always keep a remnant of Jewish people as a faithful witness
      to Him.  Furthermore, God has made promises to always keep those whom He
      has chosen spiritually.
4. Discuss God's keeping power, especially for the believer in Yeshua.  Read
   Psalm 121:3-4, John 10:22-30, and Romans 8:31-39.

Day 3: "Israel that Keeps Him"
------------------------------
1. Discuss the Hebrew word "Hannukah."
   a. means "dedication"
   b. The title for this holiday is derived from Numbers 7:84, which recounts
      the dedication of the tabernacle in the time of Moses.
   c. Hannukah, because of its name, reminds us of the idea of dedication to
      the Lord.  As the tabernacle or Temple was dedicated to Him, so should
      we be.  One facet of being dedicated, is that of keeping close.  As God
      keeps us close to Him, so should we strive to remain there.
2. Ask "What does it mean to be dedicated to God?"  Emphasize the concept of
   us keeping God close by placing God first in every area of our lives.
3. Read Psalm 95:7-11 and Romans 12:1-2

Day 4: "He has Done Great Things"
---------------------------------
1. Talk about the Hannukah legend concerning the miracle of burning oil.  There
   was only enough oil for the great Temple menorah for 1 day, but God made it
   last 8 days when more could be made available.  This reminds us that God is
   a miracle-working God!
2. Discuss God's miracles.
   a. Name some miracles we know that God did throughout Scripture.
   b. Name some miracles that God has done in your life.
3. Ask questions.
   a. Why does God perform miracles?  Share that God does this to confirm His
      power and to show us that He is true to His word and that He loves us.
   b. Why did Yeshua perform miracles while on earth?
    
    to be continued...

Day 5: "Bond-servants of Yeshua"
--------------------------------
1. Single out the Shamash, the servant candle, used to light the rest of the
   candles.  It is a great illumination of a servant of the Lord.  Use it as an
   object lesson.
2. Ask questions.
   a. What does the candle do?
   b. What is it called?
   c. Why do you think it is placed separate from all the rest of the candles?
   d. What do servants do?
   e. What are servants separate from others?
   f. How does the Shamash point to Yeshua? (i.e., He is the servant of the
      Lord, He is the light of the world Who imparts light to us, He is
      honored.)
3. Point out that even though the Shamash does the most work and gives itself to
   aid the other candles, in the end, it is given a place separate that is a
   place of honor.  So it is with us who are servants of Messiah, we are to give
   ourselves to Him for His use and when He returns, He will give us honor!
4. Read Romans 6:11-23.

Day 6: "So Others Can See and Know"
-----------------------------------
1. It is traditional for Jewish homes to place the menorah in a window so that
   others may see and know that their home is Jewish.  Similarly, when we place
   a menorah in the window of our lives, others will know the same.  But we as
   believers, have an even more important message we need others to see and
   know, that is the Messiah Yeshua who died and made the atoning sacrifice on
   our behalf.  Through him alone, we are granted eternal life and grace with
   the forgiveness of sins.  Spend some time in meditation on this important
   facet of our life.
2. Ask questions.
   a. Why is it important for people to know that we are believers in Yeshua?
   b. How can we let people know what He has done for us?
3. Discuss the theme of believers as the lights of the world.
4. Read Matthew 5:14-16 and Acts 1:8.

Day 7: "With Gladness and Joy"
------------------------------
1. Review the story of Hannukah again.  Emphasize the gladness and joy that the
   people had when God granted them victory over their enemies and permitted
   them to rededicate the Temple.  Re-read 1 Maccabee 4:59 where it says that
   "all the congregation of Israel decreed that the days of the rededication
   of the altar should be observed this season...with gladness and joy."
2. Ask questions.
   a. Why do we rejoice at this special time of the year?
   b. What is our source of joy?
3. Read John 17:13, Psalm 149:1-4 and Isaiah 55.

Day 8: "The Light of the World"
-------------------------------
1. Discuss what you have learned and recognized through the Festival of Lights
   (Hannukah).
2. Ask questions.
   a. With all the candles lit, what is the one thing we see an abundance of?
      (light!)
   b. What does John 1:1-14 call Yeshua?
   c. What does verse 9 mean when it says that Yeshua gives light to everyone?
   d. How can we make Yeshua our light?
3. Pray: Turn out all the household lights, have everyone look at the menorah
   lights and pray for the Lord to make you into shining lights for Yeshua!

    Baruch ata Adonai, Elohenu Melech ha'olam.  Sheasa nisim la'avoteynu
    ba'yamim hahem ba'zman hazeh.
    
    Blessed are You, O Lord our God, King of the universe, Who wrought
    miracles for our fathers in days of old, at this season.

    re-1
    potato latkes, I saw this on TV last night. The topic was healthful
    eating. Instead of frying them they put 1 Tablespoon of oil in the
    mixture and baked them. Can someone speak to the fact of what this 
    potato latkes mean ei, oil, potato. What does this all mean? 
    I have been invited to a Jewish home this Fri night to honor the 
    Sixth day can someone also point this out as well. My Jewish edicate
    isn't what it should be!!
    
    thanks
    Bruce
    

 Re .21

 My mother used to make those things...I tell ya, they are the greatest
thing since sliced bread..




Jim

    Hebrews eat a lot of fried foods during Hannukah.  The oil is
    representative of the 1 days worth of oil that burned for 8 days in the
    Temple menorah.
    
    Mike

    
    steve mcconnell would be proud of you Mike!
    
    jeff

    Thanks, Jeff! ;-)
    
    We've been celebrating this at our house all week using the Messianic
    outline I posted.  It's opened a lot of spiritual and Biblical doors
    (insights) for me as well as for my wife and children.  The object
    lessons are tremendous for not only learning about God, but applying it
    to where we live.  I think this week will be a spiritual turning point for 
    my family.  I can see it in how my children read God's Word and how
    they talk about the things of God already.
    
    Learning more about Hebrew culture as it applies to God's Word has
    really changed the way I read and study.  It has made many passages
    more clear.  I recommend diving into it for all my brothers and sisters
    in Christ.  
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    Thanks for these postings.  I have been interested in delving into
    Jewish customs and your outline will be a great help.  I'm going to
    print it out and use it next year!
    
    Pam

    Pam, you still have 4 more days! ;-)  We're not under the letter of the
    law.  God will be pleased to have you and your family focus on His
    mighty deeds and talk about Him.
    
    Mike

    Interesting to note that this past Sunday was also the Feast of First
    Fruits - prophetic of Christ's resurrection and our new life in Him. 
    It was also the anniversary of the end of Noah's Flood, the Israelites
    crossing the Red Sea, and of course our Lord's resurrection.
    
    From that feast, 50 days are counted (called Counting the Omer) to the 
    Feast of Pentecost.  This summer feast marks the anniversaries of
    Enoch's rapture, the giving of the Torah on Mt. Sinai, and the giving
    of the Holy Spirit to God's people.
    
    Mike

    cross-posted from TAVENG::BAGELS
    
              <<< TAVENG::$1$DUA21:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BAGELS.NOTE;1 >>>
                -< BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest >-
================================================================================
Note 926.4          Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Rememberance Day.             4 of 4
OUTSRC::HEISER "the dumbing down of America"         28 lines  27-APR-1995 22:45
                      -< May G-d Bless You and Keep You >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A blessed holiday to everyone in remembrance of this tragedy.
    
    I'm currently reading the book "Our Hands are Stained with Blood" by
    Michael L. Brown.  It deals with the tragic story of what has been done
    to the Jews in the name of "Christ" throughout history, not just the
    Holocaust.  I have made a practice of apologizing to Jewish friends and
    people in my community and supporting them anyway I can in denouncing hate
    crimes (I have made sure that my church has also become involved
    locally to support rabbis in the community as well.  We've seen a 43%
    rise in anti-Semitic hate crimes locally in the past year alone).  That 
    apology is extended here as well.  One day I hope most of those who call 
    themselves "Christians" will do the same for all that has been done.  
    
    I should note that I'm a first generation American whose father and
    grandmother had to also flee from Germany in the late 1930's.  It
    wasn't until recently that I discovered I have Jewish ancestors in my
    family (5-7 generations ago).  This awareness as well as friendships
    established with people in local synagogues contributed to me touring the
    local Plotkin Museum recently.  This is a world-class museum with
    treasures that are unique to any Jewish museum in the U.S. (i.e.,
    Tunisian synagogue).  Some of the items include Torah scrolls and other 
    precious items (yad, chair of Elijah) that Hitler confiscated from 
    synagogues in Czechoslovakia and had stored in warehouses.  He had plans 
    of building a museum to an extinct people, but G-d thwarted that plan.  If 
    you're ever in Phoenix, stop by the Plotkin Museum, it will bless you.
    
    Baruch Haba B'Shem Adonai,
    Mike

    Incidentally, there are only 2 chapters in the entire OT that are not
    read in Jewish synagogues during the sabbath readings.  Guess which
    ones they are.
    
    Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.

re .31:

This belongs in SOAPBOX topic 46.

    Gerald, that may not be the case in your synagogue, but it is with
    local rabbis that I know.
    
    Mike

Well, it would be a simple matter to take the lectionary and run it through
a program to determine what isn't read.  I wrote such a program to index
chapter and verse in the 3-year "Common Lectionary", allowing you to look
up what Sunday or other Feast or Occasion gets a particular reading.

I'm sure Gerald has the lectionary used by Orthodox Jewish synagogues; he may
even have a reverse index like the one above already.

This would determine whether Mike was observing Friday by making up facts.

/john

| <<< Note 558.33 by OUTSRC::HEISER "Maranatha!" >>>

| Gerald, that may not be the case in your synagogue, but it is with
| local rabbis that I know.

	Mike, maybe you should include the word some, or many when you speak.
What you wrote in .31 sounds like you were saying all. 



Glen

The readings on the Sabbath are the Torah (Pentateuch) and short portions of
the prophets.  That's it.  I challenge you to find me a synagogue in which
Chronicles, for example, is read on Sabbath.

    Gerald, does this apply to Orthodox as well as Reformed?  I'm on fairly
    good terms with some of the local reformed rabbis and they stated they
    will not read Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.  Maybe it's a local thing.
    
    Mike

Mike, you wrote in .31:

    Incidentally, there are only 2 chapters in the entire OT that are not
    read in Jewish synagogues during the sabbath readings.  Guess which
    ones they are.

    Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.

In .37, you wrote:

                                                              I'm on fairly
    good terms with some of the local reformed rabbis and they stated they
    will not read Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.

Do you see the difference?  BTW, I think they really said "do not" rather
than "will not."  If they said "will not" it's because they don't understand
what those chapters are about (hint: it's not Jesus).

Some Jews read the entire book of Psalms on a regular basis.  Some of them
read the whole thing every day, or every Sabbath, or every Friday afternoon.
Others read it over a the period of a week or a month.  Psalm 22 is not
included in the regular liturgy, but neither are most other Psalms.

Likewise, most chapters of Isaiah are not part of the liturgy.  But Jews
read and study the entire Bible (what you call the OT) including Psalm 22
and Isaiah 53.

Hi Gerald,

While Mike may have generalised from a specific instance, Psalm 22 and
Isaiah 53 in particular contain very explicit prophecy which conforms
uniquely to what Jesus experienced.  I know that some Jews interpret this 
in other ways, but equally there are some Jews who are aware of the very 
significant parallels.  

For the Christian, the distinct portrayal of crucifixion, some centuries
before it was used as a method of execution is so strong an identification
that it is unmistakable.  Adding other features of Jesus' experience to
this, with many fulfilled prophecies, is a clear pointer that He is the 
ultimate fulfilment of these passages, even though their initial writing is 
triggered by G_d's work in the personal life of the prophet at that time.

							Andrew

>Do you see the difference?  BTW, I think they really said "do not" rather
>than "will not."  If they said "will not" it's because they don't understand
>what those chapters are about (hint: it's not Jesus).
    
    Possibly.  I'll have to ask for clarification the next time I meet with
    them.  
    
    Gerald, do you feel Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 pertain to Israel rather
    than Mashiach (sp?)?
    
    thanks,
    Mike

    Hannukah starts on December 17th (Sunday evening).

    Anyone have the address for Zola Levitt?  I hear he has a video on the
    discovery of the Ark of the Covenant.
    
    thanks,
    Mike

    Might have an address at home. I'll try to remember to check.

    Leslie

    The following is a paper I did for my Hebrew Old Testament (Tanakh)
    class taught by a local Reform rabbi.  Naturally, the New Testament was 
    "off-limits" for this class.  My intention here was to sketch the
    portrait of the Messiah's characteristics based on Hebrew scripture. 
    If you would prefer the type-set PostScript version, let me know.
    
    Mike
    
    
1  Introduction

The hope for the Messiah is one of the central themes to the life of the
observant Jewish believer.  Rabbinical teachings have focused on this fact for
centuries.  For 3,500 years the Jewish people have awaited fulfillment of the
promise in Deuteronomy 18:18-19.  In this paper, the characteristics of the
Messiah, according to the Tanakh, ancient rabbinical writings, and the Dead
Sea scrolls will be examined.  To set the foundation of this analysis, it is
necessary to draw upon the writings of the ancient rabbis.  There are several
tests applied to ancient documents to grade their integrity.  One of them is to
utilize the oldest manuscripts available.  The closer a manuscript is to the
point of origin, the more reliable the context.  This not only applies to
biblical manuscripts, but to rabbinical writings as well.  The other mandatory
ingredient for our foundation is how you view God's Holy Word.

The most important discovery of my life was the insight that the Bible is a
highly   *integrated message system.*  We possess 39 books, penned by 30
authors over thousands of years, yet the more we investigate, the more we
discover that they are a unified whole. God's Holy Word is more than just
divinely-inspired and infallible. Every word, every detail, every number,
every place and name, every subtlety of the text: the elemental structures
within the text itself, even the implied punctuation are clearly the result of
intricate and skillful supernatural 'engineering.' The more we look, the more
we realize that there is still much more hidden and thus reserved for the
diligent inquirer. The evidence of design is clearly obvious even in the
acrostics hidden throughout the Tanakh.  *ALL*  Scripture is given by
inspiration and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, and correction. We
haven't begun to discover the detail, the power, and the majesty of God's
handiwork. Would you expect anything less in the Word of God Himself?   It is
amazing how apparent contradictions disappear when you realize what we hold in
our hands.  This same view will also be vital in identifying the Messiah. The
following manuscript timeline details the contextual integrity of the documents.

Manuscript              Description                 Completion Date

Septuagint        Greek translation of Tanakh        285 B.C.
Dead Sea Scrolls  Qumran community writings          100 B.C.
Targum            Oldest Tanakh commentaries         200 A.D.
Mishnah           Oral traditions preserved since    200 A.D.
                          450 B.C.
Babylonian Talmud Commentary on Mishnah              400 A.D.
Massoretic Text   JPS Tanakh based on this text      1000 A.D.
Midrash           Commentary on Tanakh               300 A.D. (addendum to
                                                         1600 A.D.)


2  The Hope for Messiah

The previously mentioned Deuteronomy 18:18-19 isn't the first promise of
Messiah in the Torah.  According to the ancient rabbis, the first Messianic
passage is Genesis 3:14-15.  They clearly understood that the spiritual battle
between Satan and mankind would be waged by the Messiah, the seed of the woman.
In the commentary on this passage in the Targum Jerusalem it states: "And it
shall be that when the sons of the woman study the Torah diligently and obey
its injunctions, they will direct themselves to smite you (Satan) on the head
and slay you; but when the sons of the woman forsake the commandments of the
Torah and do not obey its injunctions, you will direct yourself to bite them
on the heel and afflict them.  However, there will be a remedy for the sons of
the woman, but for you, serpent, there will be no remedy.  They shall make
peace with one another in the end, in the very end of days, in the days of
King Messiah."  The Messiah is the great hope of Israel, because He will
provide the remedy for man's sin and reconcile man back to God.  This view was
critical to all the writers God used to give us the Tanakh, as well as to
ancient rabbis.  In the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 99a we read, "All the
prophets prophesied only of the days of the Messiah."   From Sanhedrin 98b we
read,   "The World was not Created but only for the Messiah."


3  The Suffering Servant

The book of Isaiah contain 4 passages known as the "Suffering Servant Songs,"
located in Isaiah 42:1-7, 49:1-6, 50:4-9, and 52:13-53:12.  The latter passage
in Isaiah 53 is believed to be a reference to the nation of Israel by many
modern rabbis.  However, ancient rabbis in the Targum, one of the oldest
manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures, positively attributed this passage as
Messianic.  In the Targum of Isaiah, it states: "Behold, My servant   the
Messiah  shall prosper; he shall be exalted and great and very powerful.  The
Righteous One shall grow up before him, lo, like sprouting plants; and like a
tree that sends it roots by the water-courses, so shall the exploits of the
holy one multiply in the land which was desperate for him. His appearance
shall not be a profane appearance, nor shall the awe of an ignorant person,
but his countenance shall radiate holiness, so that all who see him shall
become wise through him.  All of us were scattered like sheep...*but it is the
will of God to pardon* the sins of all of us on his account...Then I will
apportion unto him the spoil of great nations... *because he was ready to
suffer martyrdom* that the rebellious he might subjugate to the Torah.  And he
might seek pardon for the sins of many."

5  Messiah - the Son of God?

This issue has been a point of contention between Jews and Christians for
years.  Many Jewish people even consider this concept to be a Christian
fabrication, but the ancient rabbinical writings support the Messiah as the
Son of God. Psalm 2:7 and Proverbs 30:4 provide evidence of this relationship.
Modern rabbis do not consider these passages to be Messianic though the Hebrew
text clearly uses the words 'YHWH' and 'Mashiyach.'  The Talmud tractate Sukkah
52a, Talmud Abodah Zarah 3b, and even the medieval Midrash writings (Tellihim)
on Psalm 2, Psalm 92:11, 1 Samuel 16:1, and Genesis 44 all attribute the Son
of God as Messiah. The Yakult Shemoni (vol. 2, par. 620, p. 90a) also supports
this concept.  The book of Enoch, written between 170-130 B.C. says in 105:2
that Messiah is God's Son.  In the Dead Sea Scroll fragment 4Q246 (Cave 4 of the
Qumran community,  fragment 246) it says "He shall be called the Son of the
God; they will call him the Son of the Most High..."


6  The Time of Messiah's Coming

This is one area that is most interesting when it comes to rabbinic
speculation.  After the Babylonian captivity, rabbis became much more diligent
in deciphering clues to the Messiah's arrival.  Expectations varied over the
centuries, but ancient rabbinical writings show that they peaked during the
first 50 years of the first century A.D.  Rabbi Abba Hillel Silver in  "A
History of Messianic Speculation in Israel," states that expectations were
high then because the Millennium was at hand (p.5-7).  The Messiah was not
expected before this century.  Also, the sufferings under Rome had little to
do with it.  The understanding of biblical chronology and prophecy had
everything to do with it.

In Haggai 2:6-9, it is prophesied that the "Desire of all Nations," an idiom
for the Messiah, would visit the Second Temple.  This is confirmed in the the
Midrash Tractate Debharim Rabba (on Deuteronomy, p. 4b).  Another reason for
the first century expectations was because of the prophecy in Genesis 49:10.
The   scepter has been understood to be the tribal identity linked to the
enforcement of Mosaic law and the right to adjudicate capital offenses.
Shiloh is another idiom for the Messiah.  This is confirmed in the Targum
Onkelos, Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, Targum Yerushalmi, and the Talmud, Sanhedrin
98b by Rabbi Johanan. Josephus (Antiquities 17:3)  records this event when it
happened in 6-7 A.D. under Roman procurator Caponius and Caesar Agustus.
Josephus in Antiquities 20:9 points out that the Sanhedrin had no authority in
capital cases.  In the Jerusalem Talmud, Sanhedrin, folio 24, it says, "A
little more than 40 years before the destruction of the Temple, the power of
pronouncing capital sentences was taken away from the Jews."  In the
Babylonian Talmud, chapter 4, folio 37, the ancient rabbis expressed their
grief that the scepter had departed and Messiah had not come!

Daniel's infamous 70-week prophecy in chapter 9 also predicted the timing of
Messiah's coming according to the ancient rabbis.  In the Targum of the
Prophets, Tractate Megillah 3a, Rabbi Jonathan ben Uzziel explicitly states
that the date of the Messiah was foretold in Daniel 9:24-26. The Talmud
Tractate Nazir 32b and the Yakult, vol. 2, p. 79d also confirm this. The
Qumran community believed that they lived in the very generation that would
see the arrival of the Messiah! In fact, Daniel's prophecy is also tied to the
ancient rabbis knowing that the Second Temple would be destroyed in the Talmud
Nazir 32b, and that Messiah would come before this event!  The Talmud,
Sanhedrin 96-99 also stated that the Messiah would come at the beginning of
the 5th millennium after creation.


7  Will Messiah Come Twice?

Thus far we've seen several Tanakh prophecies that show that the Messiah will
be martyred, but also be King after his atoning sacrifice.  There have been
several attempts by Jews and Christians to reconcile this fact with their
faiths as well as scripture.  The "2 Messiah" theory was a rabbinical idea
which developed in the first to second century A.D.  However, when upholding
God's literal word in Deuteronomy 18:15-19, we can see that the Messiah is
always referred to in the singular.  Likewise for the suffering servant,
ruling, and reigning passages.  Also, the previously mentioned Dead Sea scroll
fragments (4Q521) also describe the Messiah with a singular personal pronoun.

If the same Messiah is to both suffer and then rule forever, then the Tanakh
should show additional evidence that fulfill both veins of Messianic prophecy.
Better still, there should be passages that unite both veins within the same
context.  Isaiah 53 is one such example that unites both veins of prophecy, and
as already demonstrated, is clearly Messianic.  Zechariah 9:9-10 prophecies
the Messiah as the triumphant king who will rule the nations, yet he is riding
into Jerusalem on a donkey.  Daniel 9:24-27 also speaks of the Messiah's death
before sealing up the vision and prophecy of bringing in everlasting
righteousness.

Now since there is no scriptural evidence for the 2 Messiah theory, and that
the veins of prophecy are united to 1 Messiah, how can these prophecies be
explained in the life of 1 individual.  Are there 2 appearances or 1?  Since
Messiah will rule and reign forever without interruption, it is common sense
that the suffering servant must occur first.  Also, since Messiah must be
martyred first, both veins of prophecy can't possibly be fulfilled in a single
appearing of a single individual.  Messiah could do this with 2 appearances,
but we must find scripture that supports this concept.

The prophet Hosea in 5:15-6:2 shows God telling His people that "I will return
again to my place till they acknowledge their offense."  How can this be when
we know that God is omnipresent?  Earlier in the context of this passage, God
states that  "I will return to my place till they acknowledge their offense" in
reference to Israel's unfaithfulness.  This indicates that God Himself has
visited Earth at a finite point in time and then returned to His place.  How
can an omnipresent God do this?  As we shall see, the ancient rabbis believed
this passage to be Messianic - a physical manifestation of God Himself - and
that Messiah would come twice!

Mike,

I've extract this to read later.  Thanks.

Leslie

    Leslie, it's the same as the Postscript version I mailed you.
    
    Mike