Conference yukon::christian_v7

    Greg,
    
    He was pulling your leg, sort of.  Bapticostal is not a denomination
    but a referal to his dual spiritual heritage Bapti(st)/(Pente)costal. 
    Having the same dual background, I refered to myself the same way 15
    years ago in the independent charismatic fellowships.  My wife, who was
    Episcopalian (although Nazarene on Wednesdays), became an Episcomatic,
    Episco(pal)/(Charis)matic.  Don't take it too seriously.
    
    Kent
    

 What does it mean "The Holy Spirit was not allowed to move in his church"?
 I attend a non pentacostal Baptist Church, and brother I've seen the Holy
 Spirit move many times and not a soul attempted to stifle that.  



 Jim

    From personal experience in going to Baptist churches, there can be
    different kinds of atmispheres going on.  I loved one church (but
    moved) that was Baptist--and Southern Baptist at that--and the holy
    spirit did marvelous things there.  But I've also been to "dead"
    churches --not just Baptist.  Where the Holy Spirit seemed to be tossed
    aside so that agenda's could be met.
    
    Donna

    Re .3
    
    Amen, Donna.  I currently am a member of a Southern Baptist Church. 
    The Holy Spirit is very much in evidence at our church (Babbie Mason is
    a member of our church and she leads worship alot, so you know the
    spirit is going to move when she's up front).
    
    I also been to Baptist churchs that are "deader than a hammer".  Each
    church within each denomination is going to have its own personality.
    
    I believe that a lot of denominational differences are not so much
    doctrine, as they are personal worship preferences (i.e. Some people like
    to raise their hands, some people don't).  I think we need to be more
    accepting of others' STYLE of worship, rather that thinking ours is
    better or superior to that of another.   When, my wife and I lived in
    Florida, we were members of a charismatic church there (for the very
    reason stated above - the first church we went to was spiritually
    dead).  We ended up leaving and going to another church, because it
    seemed to us that the majority of people (not the pastor) were being
    led more by their emotions, than by the spirit (ie they were seeking an
    emotional "feeling") more than they were God.  I've been to many so
    called Charismatic churchs where this was not the case. 
    
    We left that church and went to an Idependent Bible Church.  Everything
    was going pretty good until one Sunday night the pastor spoke on
    "Spiritual Gifts".  We thought, "This should be really good, we'll
    discover more about how the Lord has gifted us".  It turned out to be
    nothing but a sermon against the Charismatic movement.  Even though the
    pastor stated that he had no "axe to grind", it seemed to be given in
    an attitude of hatred towards those in the Charismatic movement.  At
    that point a wall went up and I had a hard time receiving anything
    else from the pastor.
    
    The 3rd church that we joined down there, was one that suited our needs
    and preferences better (Although there would have been a lot of churchs
    here in the Atlanta area, of varying denominations, that we would have
    chosen above that church).
    
    I believe that its not always a matter of right and wrong, but simply
    of preference. 
    
    Love in Christ,
    
    Bing
    
     

    The only problem I have is this.
    
    We were showing our house yesterday, the couple were believers who
    attend a charismatic church.  He stated to me,
    
    "We attend a charismatic church but my wifes walk with the Lord is
    stronger than mine.  She doesn't like me to talk about it."
    
    Translation, my wife speaks in tongues but I don't, therefore, her walk
    with the Lord is stronger than mine."  All I could think of was the 
    Corinthian church and how they were strong in the manifestation of the 
    Holy Spirit, they were referred to as carnal, immature, babes in
    Christ.  This man has an incorrect belief in how God measures our walk 
    with Him. 
    
    -Jack

    re .5
    
    I think this falls into the category
    
    >I think we need to be more accepting of others' STYLE of worship, rather 
    >that thinking ours is better or superior to that of another.
                                     --------
    
    From my experience, intolerance of others worship style, based on minor 
    issues, is not a one way street.  I have many beloved brothers in the
    faith who do not worship in the same manner as I do.  That does not
    change our love for each other.  We are different people with different
    personalities.  What a boring place the world would be if we were all
    the same.  Each of us is an unique expression of the Living Christ
    within us.
    
    Love,
    
    Bing

    Believe me, there are dead Pentecostal Churches around. Lots of them. I
    go to one out of obligation.
    
    Glenn

    Bing:
    
    Oh, I too believe that there are different ways of worship and styles
    and I welcome them.
    
    My problem was the bad teaching that this guy received, i.e. He does
    not speak in tongues, therefore his walk with the Lord is not as strong
    as his wifes.  Only those who strongly walk with the Lord manifest the
    annointing of the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues.  I was pointing out
    that the Corinthian Church was filled with this annointing yet they
    were babes in Christ, filled with carnality, and held disorderly
    services.  Paul had to exhort them for these things amongst many other 
    ways they were walking in the flesh.
    
    In Christ,
    
    -Jack

    re .10
    
    Yep, I think that's the kind of attitude Jack was talking about.
    
    Love in Him,
    
    Bing

 It could be "I speak in tongues (or have x gift) and you don't so I'm
 more spiritual than you".  I've encountered it several times, and in fact
 witnessed a church just about fall apart due to that attitude.




Jim

    re .12 < What attitude is that, Bing?! >
    
    Jack was talking about a situation where a person thought they were
    spiritually superior based on the fact that they had spoken in tounges
    and someone else hasn't.
    
    >          Weeeelll, thats the way it is with Bapticostals....
    >        why they *never* speak in tongues!!
    
    This statement SEEMED to imply that one who has spoken in tounges is
    indeed spiritually superior to one who hasn't.  BTW the statement
    *never* is not true.  My sister has received a prayer language and has 
    attended Baptist Churchs for most of her life.  I know of many others
    who are members of Baptist Churchs who have received a prayer language.
    
    FWIW, I have experienced this attitude in the past.  Mostly its in
    combination with being Baptized in the H.S. (ie Everyone should be
    baptized in the H.S. and this should be evidenced by speaking in
    tounges).  I have seen a definite attitude among SOME folks involved in
    the Charismatic movement, that if you havn't had a second experience
    (evidenced by speaking in tounges) that you have received something
    less than Jesus would have you receive.  I believe that when you
    receive Jesus, you get all of Him.  Its not Jesus plus, its Jesus
    alone.  Scripture tells us that we have been given "all things that
    pertain to life & godliness" 2 Pet 1:3.  Once I've received Christ its
    a CONTINUAL filling of (or being controled by) the H.S. (Eph 5:18, the
    Greek work implies "be being filled").  
    
    Early in my Christian walk, I got off base by seeking to receive the
    gift of tounges.  I got off base because I was seeking the gift instead
    of the giver of the gift.  If God wants to give me a gift I am open to
    it, but what if He is more concerned about showing me another area of
    my life that needs to be under His control?
    
    The point I'm trying to make is that we should be abiding in Christ.  We
    are all at different points in our spiritual growth.  Speaking in
    tounges does not make someone more spiritually mature or superior than 
    another.  The bible clearly says that it is a minor gift.  We are all 
    members of one body and "Elbows are equal to eyeballs".  Its OK for us
    to have differences.  We all have different personalities that the Lord
    expresses Himself through.  Whether we speak in tounges or lift our
    hands or dance before the Lord, etc. should not be a dividing wall
    between us.  We should seek to encourage each other to Abide IN CHRIST. 
    
    
    Love in Christ,
    
    Bing

    Re: .17
    >           Did I ever say that a person who did not speak
    >                in tongues was less than one who did?
    
    No you did not and I didn't say you did, I said:
    
    > This statement SEEMED to imply that one who has spoken in tounges is
                     ------    =====
    >    indeed spiritually superior to one who hasn't.
    
    I may have misinterpreted your original statement.  If so, I sincerely
    appologize.  One of the weaknesses of NOTES is that sometimes its hard
    for the sender and receiver to send and hear things the same way (ie
    what I meant to say, is not what you heard me saying).  For this
    reason, it is often necessary to make clarifying statements.
    
    Maybe you could help me to better understand what you meant by the 
    statement:
    
    >          Weeeelll, thats the way it is with Bapticostals....
    >          why they *never* speak in tongues!!
     
    Love in Christ,
    
    Bing
    

    There are a few churches out there that can't easily be "pigeonholed"
    that lie somewhere in between the Baptists and the Pentecostals.  The
    term above might be applied to some of these non-denominational
    churches.  They sort of combine the best of both denominations.  One of
    these is the Vineyard churches that have supplied a lot of the great
    worship tapes on Hosanna music in recent years.  They're very popular
    right now!
    
    Mike

    Re .19
    
    Thanks for the clarification Greg.
    
    Bing

    No it makes him an Awanabecoastal.

    
    It makes him a Nazarene....sort of.

    Actually it makes him a Christian, who happens to belong to a Baptist
    Church.  There are many flavors of Baptist Churchs (just as there are
    many flavors of Church of God, Methodist, Pres., etc).
    
    By the way, although I don't agree with all of AWANAs doctrine (such as
    not participating in Charismatic churchs) its been one of the best
    things that could have happened for the kids at our church.  We have
    300+ kids who are EXCITED about going to AWANA on Wednesday night. 
    They are learning God's word and learning to know Him.
    
    Bing

    I'm going to be working with 3rd and 4th graders this fall (my oldest
    son is going into the 4th grade).  I'm really looking forward to
    helping to shape the hearts and minds of the future generation, by
    allowing God to express Himself through me to these boys.
    
    Love in Him,
    
    Bing

    -< Looking forward to the fall >-
     
    I guess I should have put "autumn" to avoid confusion 8^).
    
    Bing
    

    >    	...No wonder I don't teach AWANA...
    
    I'm not a Baptist, but I don't have a problem with AWANA either.  As
    God's children, we're instructed to hide His Word in our hearts.  By
    memorizing and reading God's Word, we grow.  

    Deuteronomy 6:4-7
    "6:4  Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
     6:5  And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with 
          all thy soul, and with all thy might.
     6:6  And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine 
          heart:
     6:7  And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt 
          talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest 
          by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."
    
    Children learn best through seeing, saying, hearing, and doing. 
    Repetition is also a plus.  The AWANA musical tapes for memoring
    scripture through song is one of the best methods I've seen.  Kids take
    to it like a duck to water.
    
    Mike

    >                 They still won't let me in Cubbies.  Maybe
    >        you could speak with 'em for me?
    
    Nope, 
    
    You'll have to move up to Sparkys. 8^)
    
    My youngest turns 3 on Aug 20th.  Technically he's old enough to start
    Cubbies, but I can't imagine him in there right now (He definitely
    seems like a 2 year old).
    
    Bing  

    RE .31
    >   I'm not a Baptist, but I don't have a problem with AWANA either. As
    
    Actually, I don't think AWANA is a Baptist organization at all. 
    Royal Ambassadors (RAs) for boys and GAs (Not sure what it stands for -
    I have 3 boys and 0 girls 8^)) are the traditional Southern Baptist
    programs.  At our church we started the AWANA program about 3 years
    ago, and some of the RA leadership had problems with having
    competition.  But, like I said the kids LOVE it.
    
    Bing

    As you graduate to Sparkies:
    
    We are sparks for Jesus
    Sparks to light the world
    We will shine for Jesus
    As we tell each boy and girl
    
    We will hid God's Word in our hearts
    We will serve Him right from the start
    From His love we never can part
    
    For we are Sparks, Sparks, Sparks, Sparks
    Sparks to light the world.

    (disinterested opinion....)
    
    Tony - I think Mike's "study" comment was lighthearted humor as was
    Greg's "sigh" reply....I read them both with "implied smiley's" (i.e.,
    :-) were there, but not in writing).
    
    that's how it struck me...kinda funny....
    
    was there a different intent?

    thank you Steve.

      Hi,
    
        Sorry, you guys I didn't see it.  I really didn't.
        Humor impaired, I guess.  (Sometimes I get it though!)
    
                                              Tony

    Hey - Tony....you're not humor impaired; not by a long shot.
    
    If anything, you spoke from a deep well of compassion, not wanting to
    see anyone hurt for no good reason.  That's a good thing, Tony!
    
    'sides, we've had a few laughs in the past, so I'm convinced you've got
    a good sense of humor as well as abundant compassion.
    
    Be well,
    
    steve

    Greg, we should all be praying for our leaders.

Topic open for business

    Notes 539.53 and 539.54 have been set hidden.  Mail sent to the
    authors.
    
    Nancy
    co-mod CHRISTIAN