Conference yukon::christian_v7

    Yesterday I heard a statement in a movie "Anne of Green Gables",
    "Despair, child, I never despair! Despair is when you turn your back on
    God!"   As I remember Christ hanging on Calvary, he asked his father,
    why?  Was that possibly despair?  I don't know, but I do know... there
    is some truth to this simplified defintion of despair.  As a Christian,
    our faith should hold us up high, higher then those who sink in despair
    around us at this changing time in Digital.  But oftimes that pressure
    seems unbearable, too much to ask of each of us, after all we are
    human.  :-)  Just like everybody else, right?
    
    But the truth is God is our provider and despair only comes when we are
    "out of practice" of acknowledging him as so.  I recently went through
    despair... feeling completely alone, shattered as though God didn't
    truly love me.  Because I reasoned [guess who entered the picture here
    as I began to reason?] if he did love me, then my life would have been
    different.  Does God love the Mark Metcalfe's more then he loves me?  I
    choose Mark because his life and mine are so complete opposites.  Does
    God love Carmen [my best friend] more then he loves me?  She has
    everything in life I've ever wanted and don't have. Yes, true to
    sibbling rivalry I can look around at my Christian brothers and sisters
    and think, God must really love you more then he loves me, look at how
    your life is compared to mine and despair often follows this line of
    reasoning...  
    
    How can we combat despair?  I only know of one way... and that is
    building faith.  "Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin
    against thee"  Find the PROMISES of God and claim them.  Practice by
    reading one or two inspiritational ones daily at breakfast, lunch and
    dinner.  Soon you will find your faith increasing and despair
    decreasing.  
    
    AND --- F O R G I V E   Y O U R S E L F  for having had lack of faith. 
    Big key  .. here ask for God's grace not only from him, but from within
    you, for you as well.  
    
    Losing a job is not just a little thing... losing a job is a 
    BIG thing and if I may be predictable... the key word here is loss. 
    Think of when you have lost someone close to you in death... remember
    the hurt, fear, pain, and mourning that went through... it's the same
    process in losing a job.
    
    You must allow yourself to feel all those emotions, but as in death of
    a loved one, the death of a job has its joy becase of Jesus.  We need
    to look for what God has prepared next for us... keep our faith, and
    focus upward.
    
    I haven't been tapped, I don't think I will be.  So, I've honestly
    tried to write this from the heart as someone who's been tapped in
    other areas of her life.  Love to you all.
    
    Your sis,
    Nancy

    thanks Nancy!  I liked the first paragraph especially...
    
    Despair is when I turn my back on God...
    

>Does God love the Mark Metcalfe's more then he loves me?  I
>choose Mark because his life and mine are so complete opposites.
>...Yes, true to sibbling rivalry I can look around at my Christian brothers and sisters
>and think, God must really love you more then he loves me, look at how
>your life is compared to mine and despair often follows this line of
>reasoning...  

What is the reason that your life was punctuated (perhaps perforated) by
abuse and mine was not?  Jesus and His disciples came to a blind man and
His disciples asked, "Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that 
he was born blind?  Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor 
his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

Too often, the quick pat answer is to say, "Nancy, your life is different 
than mine as a result of sin passed down through the generational loop.
And even though you can break the spiral, consequences follow."  But this 
is only a small portion of the truth.  It is true that the sins of others
and the sins we commit affect our lives, with sometimes far reaching
implications.  However, it is not true in any case that God loves someone
more because their lives have not been affected as another's has been.
That's looking at externals, like we are all prone to do at times.

The cause and effect of sin on our lives (whether personal or indirect)
has NOTHING to do with God's love for us, AND wealth or poverty, health
or illness, happiness or depression are also NOT indicators of a right
relationship or the love of God upon our lives; or Jesus was perhaps
very despised of God because he had no visible means of support and
was a man of sorrows acquainted with grief, and certainly suffered more
than we probably ever will.  Yet, God said before three worlds "This is
my my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

The responsibilities of the Mark Metcalfes may be greater at times because
to whom much is given, much is required.  And I must deal with administering
the resources at my disposal in a manner pleasing to God.  And I know
the temptation is to say "well, I'd sure like a try at managing the 
resources of a millionaire for God."  But God knows best (not just better)
what we can handle AND what we must go through for His purpose, which will
be unique for each individual.  

Sibling rivalry?  Me, too, sometimes.  But then I ask the Lord to refocus
upon Him and to remember what He taught me from His Word when I think about
one of my siblings:

John 21:
 21  Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
 22  Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that
to thee? follow thou me.


(Paraphrased:  "What about him?"  "Waht's that to you?  You have one 
responsibility: follow me.)

    Mark,
    
    I couldn't agree more with your note in respect to sibling rivalry...
    another topic perhaps? :-)
    
    Your Sis,
    Nancy 
    
    P.S.
    
    Mark, I do love you like a Sister and am very pleased at the blessings
    of God in your life, but I think you already knew that. :-)  NO rivalry
    here, really...
    

    .5
    
    Panic... another good word.  Thanks for the follow up note... :-)  
    
    Oftimes I panic on the inside while everybody things I'm cool as a
    cucumber... and then I turn to jelly.. plum preferably. :--)
    
    But God somehow calms me in the midst of my storm... always constant,
    but only when I listen... only when I really listen for Him.

>Sibling rivalry?  Me, too, sometimes.

To be certain, the admiration (righteous jealousy?) goes both ways.
I admire your ability to reach the heart through the emotions.
A concert pianist may admire the needlepoint of a "common" housewife.
Neither can do what the other can do, and both wish they had some
of the other talent spilled on them when it was being handed out.
But the variety is what makes up the body, including those whose 
experiences make them primary empathic (empathetic?) persons of healing.

I apologize for not talking about despair, except to encourage those who 
may feel like they don't rate for some reason simply because they can't
play concert piano or stitch the Mona Lisa on pillow covers.

The closest I've come to despair is panic; panic over a situation out of 
control and wondered if God cared whether we sank or swam.  I panicked,
but God came through in perfect timing.  I wanted it done early; it would
have been nice to know what God was going to do.  But one doesn't learn
trust that way.  One doesn't learn patience that way.  That is why God
may seem slow at times in answering pray, but He is NEVER late.  That is
why God may seem not to care, but His plans are BEST and when we do see
them, we discover that He did care all along, but we didn't trust long enough.

And there is no short cut to patience and trust, unfortunately.  Sorry.
Nevertheless, because He knows what is best, I ask for assurance that He
is still handling the issues that I face.  Not knowing what or how the
Lord has planned the outcome is more easily taken if I only know that
He is actively involved and our relationship is current.  Then I breathe
a big breath, tell the Lord I love Him and trust Him, and go to the
next time I need His assurance (which sometimes can be minutes!).

Mark

    .3
    
    Mark,
    
    Most certainly my life has been marked by the sin of my family... but
    also for the Glory of God...  I know without a shadow of a doubt that
    my testimony has helped at least one child to stop being molested. God
    was merciful enough to allow me to see purpose in who I am and what
    I've been through.  I should be thankful for the one, as God is
    thankful for the one.
    
    However, the consequence of sin in my family's life stops here with me. 
    When I look at my children, though they have suffered through
    alcoholism and divorce, they have been very blessed with tender hearts
    towards God.  The chain is being broken.  God is allowing the
    individual in me to break the patterns of lifetimes.  And I believe
    will be faithful with my children... but at this time can only pray and
    hope in Him that they follow through until He returns.
    
    Let's not be too easy on the sin consequence for God has Glory in
    either situation.  As he conquered sin on calvary.
    
    
    

  Despair...  sometimes it comes to God's people, but I dont think one has
  necessarily turned their back on God who fall into it...

  Whenever I've despaired I think on Psalm 88 :

  O Lord, God of my salvation, I have cried out day and night before you.
  Let my prayer come before you; incline your ear to my cry.
  For my soul is full of troubles, and my life draws near to the grave.
  I am counted with those who go down to the pit; I am like a man who has 
  no strength.
  Adrift amongst the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave whom you 
  remember no more and who are cut off from your hand.
  You have laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the depths.
  Your wrath lies heavy upon me. and you have afflicted me with all your
  waves.  SELAH.
  You have put away my acquaintances far from me. You have made me an 
  abomination to them, I am shut up and I cannot get out.
  My eye wastes away because of my affliction. Lord, I have called daily
  upon you, I have stretched out my hands to you.
  Will you work wonders for the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise you?
  Shall your lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or your faithfulness in
  the place of destruction?
  Shall Your wonders be known in the dark? And your righteousness in the
  land of forgetfulness?
  But to You, I have cried out. O Lord and in the morning my prayer comes
  before you.
  Lord why do you cast off my soul? Why do you hide your face from me?
  I have been afflicted and ready to die from my youth; I suffer your terrors
  I am distraught.
  Your fierce wrath has gone over me; your terrors have cut me off.
  They came around me all day long like water, they engulfed me altogether
  Loved one and friend You have put far from me, and my acquaintances 
  into darkness.

  Psalm 88 NKJV  The despair of Christ at Golgatha ???? (if so, answer all the 
                  "will you" questions in the Psalm : "YES").

  Followed by

  Psalm 89:1 I will sing of the mercies of the Lord forever; with my mouth
             will I make your faithfulness to all generations...

  Hank  

     I have been working through the feelings of despair in my life over
    the last few months.  I have always felt on the inside that God gave
    me the short end of the stick.  I have gone through many stages of
    greif and push myself further away from God, but He never left my side. 
    He has shown me to take joy in my trials and not to covet things in
    other peoples lives that make me feel they are more loved by Him than
    me.  As most of you know that my husband is not a christian, and we
    have gone through so very rough times over the past four years since I
    have become a christian.  I have many times been in despair that I
    could not have Philip as the spiritual leader of my family.  The more
    that I allowed despair to turn into wollowing in my troubles I became
    angry and allowed rage to damage our relationship.  I had to grieve the
    death of a dream that I am going to have the perfect christian family
    and allow God to take control of my life.  Now my eyes have been opened to 
    the good in my situation.  Every day God shows me something more to love 
    and cherish about my husband.  As Nancy said we must allow ourselves to 
    feel all the stages of emotions we go through in times of despair, and 
    when we come to the point of acceptance of the situation you will see
    the good in the situation not to mention the little blessings God will give 
    you along the way.  
    
    Sasha

    I have been praying that I would learn to "walk in His love" more each
    day.  I heard Malcolm Smith share the story of when Jesus & the
    disciples were crossing the sea & a storm arose.  The disciples became
    frantic, while Jesus slept.  The disciples woke Jesus up and said "Wake
    Up! Don't You know we're about to die?" (my loose paraphrase).  Why was
    Jesus unconcerned?  Because He knew how much His Father loved Him.  If
    we are walking in His love for us, then we shouldn't fear (or despair
    for that matter).
    
    Why do I fear?  Malcolm Smith has a saying that "God only gives grace
    for today".  Usually when I fear, I am projecting out into the future,
    and I am usually projecting the worst (Satan plays a big part here as
    He introduces these thoughts in my mind).  [It may go something like
    this- I am probably going to lose my job.  What if I can't find another
    job?  Who's going to pay the house payment, feed the family, etc.,etc.] 
    God, however, lives with me in the here and now.  I need to focus my
    thoughts on how much God loves me and allowing God to live in & through 
    me now.  If I'm abiding in Him & in His Truth, then I won't fear or
    despair.
    
    Satan, is a deceiver, and wants me to base my thinking on error,
    instead of truth.  However, God does not love me or accept me less if I 
    am deceived.  He loves me, period, and accepts me based on what Jesus
    has done for me.  Nothing I do can add to that, or take away from it.
    
    Its my prayer that we will continue to grow in His grace and see life
    more from His perspective.  We are His beloved children.  He loves us
    and will provide for our needs.
    
    Bing
      
    
    

    Sasha,
    
    Thanks for the heartfelt insight!  May God continue to give you the
    eyes to find lovely things about your husband and Christianity.
    
    Hugs,
    Nancy

    Hi Bing!
    
    Welcome to Christian!  Your note about the ship in the storm also came
    to mind to me today when I was writing .1.  I must say I don't know who
    Malcolm is though. :-)  But I don't believe that God gives us grace
    just for today.  His grace is sufficient for yesterday, today and the
    future. :-)
    
    A big amen to your note though!
    
    Nancy

    Despair is wot you use when you get a flat.
    
    ;-}
    

    I thought it was when you have a flat and no spare. :-)

    Humor is often a way in which I deal with despair... but ultimately I
    must face the issues...

Over Pentecost weekend, May 20-22, I had the privilege of participating in a 
Pentecost celebration that included seven hours of teaching by Malcolm 
Smith.  This was held at St. Paul's Church, Malden, MA and was sponsored by 
St. Paul's and the Institute for Christian Renewal, based in Plaistow, NH.

He is a teacher of tremendous power and depth but, so far, seems to be
almost unknown in the Northeast.  His ministry is based in Texas, though his
accent is English rather than Texan.  He is an author, has a substantial
catalog of teachings available on tape, and has a radio program called
"Covenant Love." (Don't know if it's heard anywhere around here.) 
    
What most struck me is the way in which his teaching is directed at both
the heart and the mind, making a profound impression on both, and giving
remarkable insights into theological truths while arousing a deep awareness 
of their reality for ourselves.

He is a leader in the Christian Convergence Movement, which seeks to bring 
together the Evangelical, Charismatic or Pentecostal, and Liturgical and 
Sacramental (or, in the broad sense, Catholic) strains of Christianity under 
"one roof" -- and all from a conservative, orthodox, "renewed" perspective.

Is there anyone else here who is familiar with Malcolm Smith?

Dick

    RE .12
    
    Nancy,
    
    Malcolm's point was that God deals with us in the present tense.  The
    past is gone and we don't know what the future holds.  One of the
    articles I read was based on Isaiah 26 (I will keep those is perfect
    peace, whose minds are steadfastly set on me [my paraphrase from
    several different versions]).  Malcolm talks about how the Hebrew refers
    to the imaginations of the mind.  Our thoughts are not to "dwell" in the
    past or in the future.  Examples of the past could be ... if only this
    had happened or if only I would have done it differently.  Examples of 
    future would be... If this happens, how will I survive.  When we allow our 
    thoughts to dwell in the past or future, we find that God is not there
    with us in our thoughts.  Paul said that "Forgetting what lies behind, I 
    press onward".  The word also says not to worry about tommorrow, for today 
    has enough worries of it's own.
    
    God certainly provides Grace for us to deal with past hurts.  But, he
    wants to heal us of that hurt & remove any bitterness from us, so we
    can have His joy in the present.  God will certainly provide Grace for
    the future, but not until we get there.  By focusing on His life in us
    today and receiving his Grace & love for us on a daily basis, we will
    be better prepared to deal with the future wants it gets here (if I am
    frazeled & worn out from worry, I will not be able to deal with
    tribulation as well as if I am walking secure in His love).
    
    I think we're probable dealing in semantics more than anything else. 
    The main point is, as children of God, we can go through any situation
    knowing that we are loved and cared for by our Daddy (who also happens to
    be King of Kings & Lord of Lords).  He will provide for our needs - we
    don't need to submit again to the slavery of fear - we are free to walk
    in His love.
    
    Bing

I heard of a woman who was afraid that she would be unable to stand through
persecution; that if, say, she were threatened with torture, or with her
children being tortured, she would deny the LORD.  She consulted her pastor
over this, and presented it so vividly that *he* became intensely aware of
the threat of persecution and felt "could *I* bear it...?!".  He asked the
LORD how to help the woman over the issue, and when she came for her
appointment was able to tell her .... 

  A woman went for an interview for a job.  The manager took her into the 
  warehouse, and said that she would have the task of moving large packages 
  around, according to need.  And they *were* large.  She had the job, but 
  went home in a sweat, because if she were super-fit, there was no way that 
  she could carry such loads all day.  That night she tired herself out 
  trying to exercise and build up her muscles, until she was fit for 
  nothing.  The next day she reported for duty and was led into the 
  warehouse, and instructed on the first moves. As she despairingly flexed 
  her arms and walked towards the load, the manager said "Aren't you going 
  to use the folk lift truck?".

Now, it's only a picture, folks!  No need to say that in 'real life' both
employer and employee would investigate the applicant and job more
thoroughly before taking it! 

His strength is sufficient for the hour.  Not an infinite backup, in case
He's taken by surprise - He won't be.  That's our confidence in Him.  You
pick the tool fitted for the task.  You wouldn't use a rocket to take kids
to school, but neither would you wouldn't use a school bus to get to the
moon.  But neither of them need worry 'in case' they were ever called upon 
to fulfil the task of the other.  An olympic runner wouldn't encumber 
himself to run in arctic gear - he'd be a non-starter, collapsed in sweat.  
but the arctic explorer who wore running gear would freeze to death before 
he had time to brew up some coffee.  But they're both still people.  God
has a task for each of us, and fits us for that, exactly (Ephesians 2:10). 

Bing, would you say this is the sort of point Malcolm was making too?

							God bless
								Andrew

      Hi Bing,
    
        Sometimes, God wants for us to dwell on the past (and I'm
        not sure if you disagree).
    
        When our Saviour hung for us, part of His process of overcoming
        the intense alienation He experienced was to recount how God
        worked in His life in the past.
    
        Psalm 22:10
        I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my
        mother's belly.
    
        When one walks through the valley of the shadow of death and God
        seems so far away, the temptation to despair is mighty.  Only faith
        is the eye that sees what presently cannot be seen.  And that is
        that God loves you, that you are fully accepted by Him.  Part of
        the process of exercizing that faith is recounting occurances in
        life where God's presence with you was undoubtable.
    
        This is precisely what our Savior did.
    
                                                        Tony

RE:                     <<< Note 486.19 by YIELD::BARBIERI >>>
                -< OK To Dwell On The Past for Certain Things >-

       
   >     Sometimes, God wants for us to dwell on the past (and I'm
   >     not sure if you disagree).
    
    
       I'm not Bing, but I disagree rather strongly.  I find dwelling on
 my past to be something that continually drags me down in my service to 
 the Lord.  "No man, after putting his hand to the plow, and looking back
 is fit for the Kingdom of God".  Dwelling on my past is a very big weakness
 for me as the sin in my past led to the destruction of my family.  Satan 
 loves to remind me of that and when he does my service to the Lord goes 
 down the tubes.


 
 
 Jim




    

    The attitude when looking back certainly can determine the effect it
    has on your current life.  But oftimes looking back is a deterrant from
    sin that once destroyed.  That reminder can keep us on track, it
    doesn't have to drag us down... if you are inclined to being brought
    down, then don't look back.  If you can change the negative into a
    positive reinforcement, then do so.

      Jim,

      I think what Tony was saying is that in times of uncertainty and
      trouble, when we find ourselves having difficulty trusting God,
      it can strengthen our faith and trust to remember the ways in 
      which God has strengthened, protected, and provided for us in the
      past.  In other words, to remember that God is faithful.  He 
      kept us in the past, does He loves us any less now?  No, God's 
      love is continuous, it does not fail.  God is mighty, He was able
      to achieve His purposes for us then, is He any less able now?  No,
      God continues to be sovereign, the Creator, Ruler, and Sustainer
      of all that it is.  Therefore, we can trust Him now and in the future 
      to lovingly shelter us as He has done before.

      For me, faced with the uncertainty of employment now, it helps to
      remember what God did for me when I first graduated from college
      and the job market was very tight.  How I struggled!  But ultimately
      I found out that the reason I wasn't finding employment was because
      God was bringing an opportunity to me that would change my life by
      helping me find my value and identity in Him, rather than in what I 
      did for a living.

      Remembering that I what I thought was disaster, was God's plan to 
      bring me a future and a hope helps me now to say, "Abba, things look 
      bleak to me from my limited human perspective, but I know that You, 
      O Lord, will accomplish what You purpose to do in my life, and that 
      it will be for my ultimate well being, so even though I do not see 
      what lies ahead, yet I will trust You.  You have been faithful and 
      trustworthy to me all of my life, and I know You will continue to be so.

      Leslie

Yes, to Leslie.  It depends on the Past on which you dwell, folks.
God has told us to remember times of His providence.

Dwelling on the past, present, or future is fruitful when God is the
focus of the [in]dwelling.  When we're the focus, the dwelling is
detrimental.

MM

 Re .21, 22, 23



 You're right, folks...thanks.




 Jim (guess what he's been wrestling with lately).

re.22 

	Leslie,

	That reply had substance. Thank you for sharing your spiritual
experience of the Lord's care for you.

	In spiritual matters, it is often the simple word that has the greatest
impact.

ace

    Re .18 Yes, I think that is a good illustration of His point.
    
    Re .19 I agree that recounting one's experiences with the Lord is
    positive.  I would suggest, however, that recount or remembering and
    "dwelling" are two different things.  To dwell, in my mind, means to
    live or to remain.  The rememberences of the love God has shown me in
    the past and how He proved Himself over and over, acts to build my
    faith for today.  A friend of mine says, "Until we are absolutely sure
    of how much God loves us, we will never completely trust Him". 
    Certainly when I remember how God has provided for me in the past, it
    makes it easier to trust Him in my present circumstance.  
    
    I believe that "dwelling" in the past, whether good or bad, can be
    detrimental, however.  A pastor in Florida, Peter Lord, gives an
    illustration of keeping up your yard.  In the illustration, one person
    is dwelling on what a great looking yard he had five years ago, the
    best looking yard in the neighborhood.  His neighbor, however, could
    care less how the person's yard looked five years ago, he cares what it
    looks like today.  All I'm saying is we shouldn't live (dwell) in our past
    experiences, we should seek to remain in an intimate relationship with
    the Lord in the present.  Memories of our past encounters with the Lord
    should only draw us into a more dependant walk with Him today.  But, as
    Paul says, "Forgetting what lies behind, I press forward".  
    
    Love in Him,
    
    Bing