Conference yukon::christian_v7

Is the story true?  I don't know.  Irene Cove said it was a friend of hers
in Indianapolis (I believe).  She wanted me to understand that this lady
friend of hers was trustworthy in what she said by telling me that she is
of the same exact spiritual make-up as (her now-late husband) Jack and 
"would never tell a lie."

Another person who saw just the quote "Gabriel has his lips on the horn"
sent me mail as to where I had heard this.  I related the story and then
asked why.  He said that he had heard the same story in his church on Sunday.

In any event, folks, the time is ripe.  Shall we search the Scriptures more?
Who is ready?

Maranatha!

Mark

In 1988 there was reason to suspect the Lord's return.  The reason was 
apparently not complete.  No one knows the day nor hour - some think this
does not exclude the season.  Even Jesus said you can know the time is short
by the signs.

What 1988 did for some Christians was to root them firmly where they toyed
with Christianity, doing what they felt like when they felt like it believing
that God would forgive them later on.  (Presumption is a very dangerous sin
and God is not mocked.)  During this time, some people had to face their
beliefs they laid claim to and ask whether they really believed that Jesus
was coming at any time.  Did God really exist enough to believe that His Word
is true and prophecy would ALL be fulfilled?

It didn't change some people who claim Christianity and the passing of 1988
only firmed their belief that what they believe is as good as any one else's
belief about Christianity.  The Korean (?) church that plastered all the 
Rapture stickers everywhere for 1993 were derided when the day came and 
passed.  Some have "fallen away" because their faith was not affrimed;
they were misled and feel that the whole thing is sham.

The parable of the seeds can shed light that some who take root will fall
away for one reason or another.  And we know well that not everyone who
says, "Lord, Lord" is a child of God.  Many of these who have treated their 
faith lightly with respect to God's Word and prophecy never had the roots
to withstand the charlatans, false prophets, evil people in the sheepfold,
and other "disappointments" to Christianity (such as the Crusades, witch
hunts and the like).  People who are "apponted to wrath" do so of their
own free will, choosing darkness and calling it light.

Even if this story in ,0 is true, none of us should sell our belongings and
wait on a hilltop for Jesus' return.  Gabriel may be in position, but only
God can give the command to sound the trumpet.  And what does soon mean,
especially to God?  We must continue as if we were to live the rest of our
lives out on earth before meeting our Maker.  Yet, we must also live holy
lives as if He were about to return - keeping the wicks trim and the oil
lamps full for when the Bridegroom comes.  The foolish virgins frittered
their time away and were caught unprepared.  They didn't believe the bridegroom
would come when he did, or they would have been ready.

Where do you stand?  How firmly to believe what God has said in His Word?
Have you allowed it to change you?  In 1988, Jesus did not return, but he
may have done so as easily as he can an hour from now.  How seriously have
you committed yourself to believing God?

Mark

    I've heard many such stories and variations of them over the past 10
    years.  It may be urban legend, but the signs still point to a soon
    rapture of the church.

>    It may be urban legend, but the signs still point to a soon
>    rapture of the church.

Yes, I have thought of that.  However, let's add a little.  I just got 
off the phone with Ken Hopkins (Sw, remember him?) and related the story.
He said the same thing has been happening to a few people on Highway 880
(Santa Clara,CA; Nancy's neighborhood).

I asked if he knew anybody and he said he ought to check the story with
with CHP (highway police).  I hope he does.  (Perhaps Nancy can?)  He
said it didn't make the news but the word was being passed around quite 
a bit.

Now, (a) this could be urban myth, or (b) perhaps not.  Either way,
how firmly do you believe that Jesus is going to return as He said?
It may not be soon (relative term), but it may be very soon.

MM

    Sw came to my church on May 1st, I finally got to meet his wife and
    children... !! :-)
    
    Hope to get together with them again soon.
    
    Also, I can call CHP... do you have the number?  I don't think 911
    would work.
    
    :-)

The telphone book would have the local number.  Do not use 911, unless we've
been raptured, but then, the police won't be able to help you.

Mark

    Since this second coming is not to be announced, I rather don't believe
    ANYONE would have any indication at all.
    
    
    I chuckled when someone said "don't go selling your possessions"...like
    it's gonna matter (either way).  I mean you'll want them when you come
    down off the hill for supper...and if you don't come down, will you
    really care?
    
    
    -sjd
    
    

>    I chuckled when someone said "don't go selling your possessions"...like
>    it's gonna matter (either way).  I mean you'll want them when you come
>    down off the hill for supper...and if you don't come down, will you
>    really care?
    

Thanks, and good reasoning, too.

Some people want to demonstrate their benevolence by selling and giving 
to the poor.  Trouble is, benevolence is a way of life and not a way to life.
It's the old adage "you can't get ready - you have to be ready."

Mark

    Now that I think about it, the previous versions I've heard only said
    things along the lines "Get ready, Jesus is coming soon."  The title of
    this topic seems to be more detailed.

I spoke again with my friend at church to ask her if her immediate friend
in Indianapolis had this experience described in .0.

She said that it was someone in the church of her friend.  That someone
in her friend's church is a pillar of their church (Jack Cove's counterpart
in their church; Jack was a pillar in our church).  It would be like
Nancy telling me about an experience of one her associate Pastors.
It was important for some reason that I verify this information to 
a specific person (though I do not have a name, and I wouldn't call 
Indianapolis, either).  Urban myths do crop up from time to time, but
what about when you trace the occurrence to a specific person, and then
find that she is not the only person to whom this apparition has appeared.

Again, while interesting, this should not change your actions, unless you
need to examine whether or not you sincerely believe what the Bible says
is true about the second coming of Jesus Christ. 

God has announced all of the major events.  He announced the destruction 
of Sodom and Gommorah to Abraham as a sign of his long-suffering and 
unwillingness to destroy the righteous with the unrighteous - and in fact
demonstrated that judgment was the only recourse left.  He announced the
coming of the Messiah, all the way up to telling Mary, Joseph, the magi, 
and others.  He announced the judgment on Israel.  We should not be caught
by surprise (as the wise virgins were not and were vigilant) even though
we do not know the hour or the day, but we will know by the signs when the
time is come.

Matthew 24
 32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and
putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
 33  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is
near, even at the doors.

Mark

Matthew 24:1  And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his
disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
  2  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto
you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be
thrown down.
  3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him
privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the
sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
  4  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive
you.
  5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive
many.
  6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not
troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
  7  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and
there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
  8  All these are the beginning of sorrows.
  9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and
ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
 10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall
hate one another.
 11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
 12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
 13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a
witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
 15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by
Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him
understand:)
 16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
 17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of
his house:
 18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
 19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in
those days!
 20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath day:
 21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning
of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be
saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there;
believe it not.
 24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew
great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall
deceive the very elect.
 25  Behold, I have told you before.
 26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go
not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
 27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the
west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 28  For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered
together.
 29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from
heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then
shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man
coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they
shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to
the other.
 32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and
putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
 33  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is
near, even at the doors.
 34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these
things be fulfilled.
 35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
 36  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven,
but my Father only.
 37  But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man
be.
 38  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and
drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into
the ark,
 39  And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also
the coming of the Son of man be.
 40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other
left.
 41  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the
other left.
 42  Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
 43  But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch
the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his
house to be broken up.
 44  Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son
of man cometh.
45  Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler
over his household, to give them meat in due season?
 46  Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so
doing.
 47  Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
 48  But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth
his coming;
 49  And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with
the drunken;
 50  The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for
him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
 51  And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the
hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:1  Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
  2  And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
  3  They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
  4  But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
  5  While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
  6  And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go
ye out to meet him.
  7  Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
  8  And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps
are gone out.
  9  But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us
and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
 10  And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were
ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
 11  Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
 12  But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
 13  Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the
Son of man cometh.

I have read accounts like this in print, although I cannot remember
where. Given that your account is authentic, the person is probably not alone.

My personal opinion is that we are definitely seeing the "signs of the times"
which the Gospel says will precede the Parousia, or Eschaton, which is to say,
the end of the age.

I don't put my faith in any individual piece of evidence -- accounts such as
yours, alleged prophecies, alleged apparitions, rises in disasters, increased
violence, and other strange activities -- but I see them all as data points
which individually do not prove anything, but when you look at them all
together, you get a convincing idea that _something_ is going to happen soon.
Some of you may be interested in reading note 1192 in HASTUR::CATHOLIC-THEOLOGY
[hit KP7], which gives a number of Evangelical as well as Catholic words of
knowledge, so to speak, concerning the near future (the date June 9th 1994
seems to be popping up in various messages as a turning point for the world).

I am continually amazed at the things that are occurring, whether it is the
zealous persecution of pro-lifers, or the forced legitimization of sexual
immorality of all kinds, or the violent bigotry against Christians rearing its
ugly head.

We need very much to pray and fast for the world, and now more than ever each
of us need to "seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness", which is
to say, rid our lives and hearts of all that is keeping us from knowing God
fully, examining ourselves and repenting of our sins and praying that we might
be more fully conformed to the image of Christ. This is what we should be doing
anyway, Parousia or no Parousia, so we cannot fail if we respond in this way.

Shalom, Pax, Mir, and Eirene,
Eric

    What's with this June 9th date?  I've been skipping the postings, but
    there's quite a bit of communication about it on the Internet Christian
    newsgroups.
    
    thanks,
    Mike

    
    I have heard a very similar story out of Florida in the past two years.

I'm a cynic. The story has been told many times over the past few years. It 
never seems to be the actual participant who tells it. Always the frien of a 
friend or a realive of a friend etc. Much like the old "hook in the car door 
urban legend.

Chele

    Re: Note 470.15 by GIDDAY::BURT
    
>Much like the old "hook in the car door 
>urban legend.
    
    I don't know that one!  What is it?

 Re June 1994

 I saw a "prophet" on the Trinity Broadcasting Network named Sam Clements
 (or Clemens, dont now if he's related to Mark Twain). Apparently 
 "the Spirit fell upon him" during the broadcast and he prohecied at least 
  two things concerning June 1994. There was more but he went to fast for me 
  to follow  him very closely. People were writing the "prophecies" down 
  (they could have replayed the tape - assuming they were taping).

  What I remember :

 1) There would be a turning to righteousness by the US Supreme Court and
    possibly the nation (June).

 2) Something would happen concerning or involving the presidency of the
    US to cause people to say "what shall we do now?" (June).


 He seemed to be a very humble, low key sort (until he "prophecied").
 A non-assuming likeable guy.


    Hank

    6/9/94 = it's my 30th birthday!  But I guess that's not what
    they were talking about, huh!
    
    Pam

    re: .15  I am a cynic also.  I have heard this story several times over
    the past 20 years.  The first time was in Sacramento about 1974, then I
    heard it again in San Francisco in 1981 and in Fresno in 1983-4.  I
    have heard it several times during the last 2-3 years in LA.  It is
    always a well respected person in another city.
    
    Personally, I am living each day as it is the last day of my life and
    the first day of the rest of my life.  I don't need to know, Jesus will
    take care...

    
    even demons can appear as 'angels of light'......
    
    Karen

      re: .17
    
      Uh oh.  I don't like this one bit.
    
      Is the government going to start 'marrying' the church?  
    
      You heard it here first...watch for a national Sunday law.
    
                                                 Tony

re: 17 

This might be a confirmation of the prophecy given by Clements:

On February 9th of this year a Nancy Fowler, the visionary of the Conyers, GA
apparitions of the Blessed Virgin received a very strongly worded messages for
the USA from Jesus which was very adamant against the sin of abortion. This 
    message was given to the USA. 

I fell into a reflection upon this message over the next days or week. [I don't
have my journal at hand for exact dates.] I reflected that the USA, and 
particularly President Clinton, has received THREE very direct prophetic words
from holy prophets of our day concerning the sin of abortion; the first of 
these was from Pope John Paul II in Denver last August; the second was from
Mother Theresa at a prayer breakfast in January. The third, in February, was
very grave. It struck me that the Lord was REALLY trying to get through to
us through messengers that he has sent. Time was running out because we
not only ignored his prophets but have continued to sin. [I know these are
not the only holy prophets who have delivered such a message, but these are 
    three very public ones that stood out for me.]

After Mass on the Sunday that followed these reflections I felt a tremendous
calling to prayer. During this prayer I had a vision in two parts. The first
part was a wall of rising, turbulent water; it kept rising and nothing could
stop it and it was at flood stage. Then I saw Washington, D.C. with the
Jefferson Mermorial and the river or some other kind of tributary in the
background and it was overflowing its banks and flooding Washington.

Next I was given Psalm 93 and found these verses:

	The floods lift up, O Lord,
	  the floods lift up their voice;
	  the floods lift up their tumult.
	More powerful than the roar of many
	  waters,
	  more powerful than the breakers of
	  the sea --
	  powerful on high is the Lord.
	Your decrees are worthy of trust indeed:
	  holiness befits your house,
	  O Lord, for length of days.		[Psalm 93:3-5]

The flood here is rebellion and chaos; the Lord does not allow it to
persist because His decrees are to be observed and He is Holy.

I had not been observant of the news that weekend but the next day when I
tuned in to Soapbox and then later on TV I saw that over the weekend 
the Whitewater affair had really heated up and the President's Counsel 
Nessbaum had been forced to resign. The situation for the first time
seemed to be very tense. Since then Clinton has certainly been
fighting what might be considered the rising waters of his own rebellion
from God's decrees.

A few weeks ago, about a week before the Nixon funeral while in prayer
I heard the words, "assassination attempt". I did not receive an association
to any person or have very much to go on in the way of discerment, but it
was definatly not my own thought. There have been prophecies as far back as 
in the months before Clinton's inauguration (?) that has given a similar 
warning that another President would die in office before the end of this 
century. Nancy Fowler also saw a darkness surround the White House right 
about the time Clinton took office.

As a side-note issue, a week or two before the press uncovered Mrs. Clinton's
Cattle futures financial controversy Nancy Fowler was given a vision in 
which she saw the Great Lakes, a vision of red, and then something that looked
like a stock market with people in chaos. A few of us who read of this
vision right after it was given [during the February 13th gathering] thought 
that it referred to the Commodities Market located in Chicago which is right 
on the Great Lakes. A short time after this the financial controversy 
concerning Hillary Clinton's cattle futures investment, traded on the Chicago 
Commodities Market, was revealed.

My prayer is that we may all return to the Lord in whatever way we need
to be converted. I pray this for the President and for our leaders. 

Peace of Jesus,

Mary
            

    re: .0
    
    I ran across two such accounts several months ago. Once was given 
    verbally by a friend and a few days later I saw a posting on
    America Online. They each had the very same elements.
    
    They are urban legends. The person who tells the story always hears
    it from a friend who supposedly heard it from the one who had the
    encounter. They are always undocumented when the facts are checked 
    out.
    
    I would file this one under urban legend, but these stories are 
    believed based on some human 'connection'. Therefore, psychologically,
    they may be an indication that we are sensing that we have turned from
    God to such an extent that Gabriel SHOULD be blowing his horn or that
    the End SHOULD be near, or perhaps that we would like God to come and
    solve this great mess we've created and bring order back to chaos.
    
    Peace,
    
    Mary

> Uh oh.  I don't like this one bit.
    
> Is the government going to start 'marrying' the church?  
    
> You heard it here first...watch for a national Sunday law.

I don't regard a prohibition against abortion as a matter of
mixing church and state -- I regard it as a matter of basic
human rights.  Killing unborn children is just fundamentally
wrong.  No one complains about separation of church and state
regarding laws against prostitution, incest, polygamy and so
forth.  Abortion is just plain wrong, a threat to our society ...

Eric

    Actually, abortion should be a problem for all, not just Christians. 
    It is the taking of life and if I can take one life I can take another. 
    This is a threat of the "slippery slope", once I start down it, it
    becomes easier and faster - today, babies, tomorrow the elderly who
    don't have "quality of life", next day, elderley with costly medical
    care that impinges on their families, then on government, then on
    middle age with serious medical complications, then children with
    incurable disease, then all people that are left-handed, brunette,
    brown-eyed, short until we get to the "pure Aryan!" - sound familiar?

Cynic - a faultfinding captious critic; especially one who believes
        that human conduct is motivated wholly by self-interest.

This could be true in a lot of cases, as far as I'm concerned.
Urban legend or no, as a church we must plan for where the church
will be in the next century and act on those plans.  However, we 
must also be ready at a moment's notice for when the Bridegroom
appears.

I'd like to see someone trace down these matters, even so.
Who's mind would it change?  Probably no one.

And it could not change someone's heart, either; that is
done by belief (Hebrews 11:6).

Mark

    Funny thread on Internet today:  it seems the June 9th prophecies have
    merged with this one and people are saying Gabriel will blow the
    trumpet on June 16th.

Saw it and responded 9at least in the string I saw.  (Did you see it?)

    yeah, saw your response too.  these people crack me up. ;-)

    Where ????

 The Internet..



 
Jim

ONe of the Christian news groups.

You know, it is difficult to follow a string.  Imagine *having* to hit
Next Unseen, instead of settling on one note and reading the responses
that pertain to it.  There is a lot of clutter!  I hadn't realized.

VAX NOTES is leaps and bounds better simply by having note strings (topics)
instead of interspersing notes and comments with others.

VAX NOTES:

a1234567890
b1234
c123456
d123456789...


Internet:

12a3bc4defg567h8i9#!@$jk1011lm^&*(...

  Try following    123456789
                   abcdefghijklm
                   #!@$^&*(...

Primitive

    VAX Notes is far superior.  Too bad we never took advantage of its
    capabilities in the external markets.

 I recently joined Compuserve and I'm having a heck of a time figuring out
 their forums.





Jim

There are news readers which allow you to follow a string of replies
with the same title (or ignore the rest of the replies with the same
title); trouble is, idjits constantly change the titles.

/john

    
    on the internet you can group by subject and then read each string
    sequentially.

    Re: -1
    
    can you do this in Xrn?

    
    Yes. :-)

> ONe of the Christian news groups.

Hey, I tried soc.religion.christian, soc.religion.christian.bible-study,
bit.listserv.christia and the only thing I found was one message with a guy
asking for someone to discuss June 9th with because, he complained, no one
wanted to discuss it.

Where is the thread?

    I'll check tomorrow.  Send me mail.

Even better, thanks, Mike.  I have been only skimming a couple of those
and haven't "adopted" them to know their names yet.

MM