Conference wahoo::fishing

    
    
           I don't know about Joe Public but when I go ice fishing 
           I throw back all fish unless,it is a trophy,or I want
           trout for supper.Those pictures of fish you see are 
           probably panfish (perch,crappie,sunfish,etc...).There
           are alot of people that jig for these in winter and filet
           them up for supper.Once you catch one of these jigging
           you will have alot of fun because they school in large 
           groups.If everyone kept all the fish they catch ice fishing
           where would we be??
    
    
                                            The Keg (with legs)
               

    Didnt you hear, What comes up, must go down, or is it what goes
    up must come down. What ever... The only fish I can remember keeping
    through the ice was a 25 inch lake trout, everything else has gone
    back through the hole it came from. 
    
    How about Joe Public? 
    
    
    Rich

    I don't know about Joe Public but Joe Whittemore keeps what he
    eats and releases the rest.
    
    Catch and Release waters are Catch and Release all year long.

    I CATCH AND RELEASE.
                          /NIGHTCRAWLER~~~~~~
                            

    This is an old topic that has been dorment for quite some time... BUT I
    have been troubled with such an issue since fishing off Hampton Beach a
    few summers ago... and witnessing a "slaughter" of blue fish.
    
    Why is it that some fishermen/women practice C&R in a fresh water
    setting but when they go to the ocean, they forget the concept.
    
    While getting ready to set off on a blue fishing boat out of Hampton, I
    and the people I was with watched as 300+ blues came off the morning
    boat. There were 30 people on the boat which means an average 10 fish
    per person for the morning. This would not be so bad, BUT each of the
    people I saw took two fish (not everyone took even one). Approximately
    one or two dozen of the fish went to a restaurant when the crew radiod
    ahead to inform of the excess fish on board. The remaining fish, at
    least 100-150 had to be dumped into the water beside the pier for crab
    food.
    
    No, why is it that these party boat owners/crews can not practice the
    catch and release concept with ocean fish. It seems only reasonable
    that if a person is not going to eat the fish, the fish should be kept
    alive, and released back to the ocean.
    
    This concept should apply to the shark (dog fish) the crew is so
    acustom to clubing or stabbing (killing) and throwing back into the
    water DEAD.
    
    This is senseless and meaningless killing that should be stopped.
    
    Has anyone else seen this kind of abuse... and do you feel somewhat the
    same as I do about attempts to stop it from happening.
    
    Bob G. (becoming more a believer of the fact that we humans do not have
    	    the right to cause this distruction).
    

    Because if two headboats pull in gunwhale to gunwhale and one has
    2 fish per person and one has 10 fish per person, which boat had a
    better day to the customer on the dock?
    
    Which one does the customer think he'll catch more fish on?
    
    When people pay for something, the more they get, the better the deal
    they think they got; even if they didn't want it anyway.  In all
    honesty how many people, besides some of us, *really* eat bluefish??? 
    
    I agree with you, although when money is at stake, the environment goes
    to hell.
    
    /brett
    

>    This concept should apply to the shark (dog fish) the crew is so
>    acustom to clubing or stabbing (killing) and throwing back into the
>    water DEAD.

 Um, dogfish are what's known in the biological world as "overabundant." The
minute impact of tossing the few you get back into the water dead is nearly
immeasurable and is considered by biologists to be "an ineffective management
tool." This means that we can't control the numbers of dogfish by killing all
that we catch, the numbers are too great.

 With that exception, I agree with catch and release on the ocean for any fish 
which you are not going to eat. 

 The Doctah

Re. Dogfish

	Why not eat em? I must confess that I never have but I heard that
they are the "fish" part of the authentic British fish & chips. The meat 
is primarily on the back so filleting is a little different but the meat
is white and doesn't feel mushy. (I took some for a friend once.) 
	I've often thought of trying it myself but by the time I get the
buggers off my expensive terminal gear or see whats left of my hard-to-
come-by-bait I get these brain cramps and the dog ends up in the drink.
Sea Ya,
Paul

    I didn't realize a "dogfish" had enough meat on it to be worth the
    bother of cleaning.. etc. Besides, the leathery skin is to rubbery to
    get a knife into.
    
    Another besides.... when you go out on a "party boat" they will not let
    you keep a shark/dogfish. I'm still not sure why, but they don't.!
    
    Bob G.
    

Re .10>
	It probably isn't worth the bother. The amount of meat on a dogfish 
    is small compared to the waste. (Of course that's the case with most 
    fish but not to the same extent.) The meat is the top part of a normal 
    fillet. You just don't bother with the lower, thinner part. It's like 
    the tenderloins of a deer...two pieces on either side of the backbone.
	The skin is tough but it can be cut through and the meat can be 
    removed from the skin without too much trouble. I suppose its like 
    everything else; there's probably an easy way to do it if you do it 
    often enough, but who wants to spend the time to learn?. 
    
    Paul
    

    Dogfish?  Catfish?  Do they fight?
    
    

    This might be a dumb question, but is there anything one
    should be careful of when handling a dog fish? Is it true there
    tail has a spike in it? Will they try and take a chunk out of
    your hand if they get the oppurtunity? We usually beat them
    with a club until dead and then rip the hook out with a long
    pair of pliers so they drop back into the water....Not really
    conducive to quality fillets....but ever since I started fishing
    in the ocean people have done this so I figured there must be a
    good reason....
    
    
    Marty
    

    Dogfish (ie. The Spinny Dogfish) do have 2 spines. One in front
    of the dorsal fin and a second smaller one in front of the fin
    behind the dorsal fin. Dogfish have the usual rough shark skin
    and tend to spin and twist around when you try to grab them.
    My personal opinion  is the best way to hold dogfish is with
    a gaff. I also have a standing rule which is no dogfish in the
    boat. In other words the only good dogfish is a dead dogfish.
    
    Try chunking for tuna 1 day and you will agree.
    
    Bruce

    Dogfish are a real nuisance for a lot of reasons. Their skin is really
    rough and since they twist around so much coming up, they tend to
    tangle lots of adjoining lines. Not only that, they will sometimes fray
    your line. You should check for abrasions whenever you catch one. I've
    seen them tear the stomach out of a hooked cod while it's coming out of
    the water. They will spine you if you give them the chance. You can
    remove the hook while holding them VERY FIRMLY behind the head, but you
    have to watch out for that spine. Sometimes you can't even get the hook
    out because the skin is so tough, so you wind up cutting off your hook.
    
    I think everyone kills them because they are so frustrating. When you
    hit into dogfish you won't catch anything but them, so you have to
    move. They steal bait, ruin your tackle and eat your fish. When you go
    on a party boat, the mates usually kill them by breaking their noses on
    the rail and then tossing them back. 
    
    A 10-15 lb dogfish gives you a good fight on a lightweight codfishing
    rig. But somehow, even though you had what started out as a good fight,
    when you see that it's an arf-arf, you get disgusted.
    
    I'm not sure that killing them does much to reduce the population. It's
    just an outlet for fisherman's frustration.
    
    I did hear somewhere that their fillets are used in real English fish
    and chips. But I haven't been able to confirm that.
    
    Catching arf-arfs goes under the heading of "paying your dues".
    
    Art
    
     

    "The only good dogfish is a dead dogfish"... It's attitudes like this
    that depleat the fish species in the oceans.
    
    The dogfish has done nothing to you. WHY, is it people think they have
    the right to "club" them and through them back. If one doesn't want a
    dogfish in the boat, one should insure the dogfish is alive when it is
    returned to the water. WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL THESE CREATURES
    just for the fun of it! If you aren't catching them to eat, then they
    should be returned ALIVE, to servive..!!
    
    Bob G.
    

    I don't know why we do it, but it is kind of fun to
    watch one try and swim with the tail cut off....It's sort
    of like getting a good hook set into a passing duck with
    our favorite jitterbug.....or catching cats with a rat lure! I guess
    we're just sick people....:-)
    
    seriously though, there depleteing the food supply of
    other more desireable species because of their over
    abundance. Man has somehow created the unnatural imbalance
    of desireable fish (haddock cod etc.) to dog fish, so
    thinning them out a little doesn't hurt in the least...
    
    Marty

re: .17

	I agree.

re: .18

	sickening. People like you make me make me ashamed to say I'm a
	fisherman.

				Robert.

P.S. - did you ever think that the reason there are more dogfish around is
	because we are overharvesting the 'more desirable' species?? The
	dogfish are only filling a niche we have left vacant by greed.

    re .19    Relax, I was just kidding. Sorry if I offended you...

  Dogfish skin, as well as that of other sharks, was formally used as
sandpaper. I'd imagine one's woodworking shop would require a few air
fresheners as the skin ages.

  Patrick

    	When it comes right down to it, the single biggest problem with
    dogfish is that there isn't a market for them. If a market developed 
    for them, you would see the dogfish become the fisherman's best friend :-)
    
    	I suspect that a market may develope for the dogfish in the near
    future. For some sharks such as the mako and blue, a good market has
    already developed and fillets from these bring prices of $5+ /lb.. If
    you've never tried mako shark you are in for a big surprise as it is very
    good.
    
    	One problem I see in market developement for the dogfish is that they 
    are so plentiful for such a long period of time. This brings the cost /lb. 
    way down. That means a lot of fisherman wouldn't bother with them. The 
    same sort of thing happens when bluefish are running too. Regardless
    though, if someone will buy them, someone will catch them.
    
    	As far as sport fishing fun, I've brought up sharks over 4' long in 
    100+ feet of water using 6 lb. test and an ultra light fresh water 
    rod/reel. I don't think I have to elaborate much on what it's like
    catching them under these conditions (i.e. when's the last time anyone
    in here has brought in a 4' fish on ultra light tackle ?).
    
    	To get them off the hook I usually place one foot on the head and
    one on the tail and removed the hook with a pair of pliers. You DO want
    to be careful of the afore mentioned spikes.
    
    	BTW - One of the things I found when I decided to keep one on a
    party boat is that people look at you like you have 3 heads or something. 
    The mate didn't want to clean it (which he told me before I even asked
    him) because he wasn't sure how and he said it would dull up his knife. 
    
    	With all of the preconditioned attitudes, the only one on the whole
    boat that I talked to that had even tried one was the captain. He even 
    said that they weren't bad at all and didn't understand why more people 
    didn't eat them.
    
    	RAYJ

    Just to be perfectly clear. I do not go looking for dogfish to catch
    and kill them. In fact if I encounter them I move the boat to avoid
    them. The number of dogfish I kill in a year does not equal the
    number killed in one haul of a gill net. The fact remains they are
    a pain in the *** and they DO impact the movements and fisheries
    of new england ground fish.
    
    Bruce

    Good grief.
    
    To lighten things up - just a bit:
    
    
    Ten years ago, just after one of the follow-ons to 'Jaws', my wife and I 
    rented a cottage on Nantuckett.  I wanted to go to the Mountains and my
    wife wanted the beach.  We went to the beach.  It was early in the year
    and the weather and water were pretty cold. 
    
    The house was just off surfside beach and I was new to surf fishing.  
    To me, the possibility of catching _something_, almost _anything_ seemed 
    the only chance to develop some interest in the beach.  
    Every day, I took my rod and holder down to the beach, tossed out a baited 
    hook and settled down to lay in the sun.  
    
    It usually took about ten minuted until I became dizzy with boredom. 
    I'd reel the line in and cast again, reel the line in, and cast again.
    And so on...  My wife kept encouraging me to keep trying, probably to
    spare herself from my whining about the mountains. 
    
    One morning we arrived a little later than usual.  I proceeded to bait
    and fling when a very fussy woman walked up. 
    
    	" I wonder if you'd mind not doing that around here" she said.  " I
     	  dont want to have any sharks attracted to your bait while my
    	  children are swimming".
    
    I thought this was a pretty strange request seeing as I was fishing
    with sand worms, it was cold, the wind was blowing fairly hard and no one 
    had been in the water all week.  Her little ones seemed to have other ideas
    as well because they were playing in the sand well back from the water's 
    edge and didnt show any real interest in swimming. 
    But what did I know.  Maybe this is beach etiquite.  I agreed to move.
    
    I walked 3/8 mile down the beach and set up my rod.  After ten minutes
    the rod bent and I was into something.  Not much of a fight, but
    something.  Pretty soon a dark shape appears,... it cant be a blue fish,
    its brown.  I know it's not a cod because its too long and it has funny
    fins.  Hey, maybe its a striper !  No, no stripes.   But it _does_ looks 
    like a small shark.  No real teath so it must be a sand shark.
    
    Well, at least this is something I think.  I try to get my wife's attention. 
    After all this whole thing was her idea.  But she's too deeply engrossed 
    in a Danille Steele book to notice my calls.  I assume she would _just_
    love to see this fish, but I had to figure a way to bring it up the 
    beach.  I left the hook in and graped it by the tail.  Every 100 yards I 
    stoped and let it have a quick swim.  After some time I'm close enough to 
    get her attention.  
    
    Peering over her sunglasses she says, "Very nice.  What is it and what 
    are going to do with it?"
    
    "Its a sandshark" I say proudly, "and I'm going to throw him back".
    My wife went back to her book.
    
    I walked out into the water and gave the fish a fling over the top of
    an incomming breaker.  It was quite a nice moment, really.  The fish 
    seemed to hang in the air just above the top of the wave.   As he landed
    with a plop, some movement caught my eye.  I turned around to see a 
    horrified look on the woman's face.   In less than a minute she gathered
    up her children and was busy dragging them and a half closed umbrella
    towards the parking lot. 
    
    We didnt see her at the beach for the rest of the week.  And, now that I 
    think of it, we havent vacationed in the mountains since then either.
    
    Out of the corner of my eye
      
    
    blue fish

    Re dogfish and "English Fish and Chips"
    
    Being English and brought up on Fish and Chips. Dogfish is NOT used by
    the fish fryers.
    
    The prefered fish for Fish And Chips is Haddock. Cod is the second
    favourite but the most popular due to its price and availability.
    
    There are some less reputable fish fryers who use prepared frozen
    fillets and what is in them is anyones guess.
    
    David.
    

	I guess there is a market for dog fish. A week or so after the 
discussion in here I came across several items in "National Fisherman"
concerning dogfish. 
	One was an advertisement for an automatic dogfish skinner. There
were also a couple articles on what to do with the byproducts of a dogfish
processing operation...composting etc. A European market for dogfish was
mentioned but it didn't go into details. 
	I just though it was kind of interesting so I thought I'd share it 
with everyone in here.
Sea Ya,
Paul