Conference wahoo::fishing

    I've read an article years ago about the bass spawning and the way it
    works. First when the water temp. reaches, I believe 58degrees fh.
    (I don't recall the actual numbers here, so please bear with me),
    the male bass will move into shallow water and construct the nest.
    He remains there until the water reaches 62 degrees, after
    which he leaves, and the female comes in and lays her eggs. At this
    time the female only stays 48 hrs approx. She then leaves
    the nest and the male comes back and fertilizes the eggs. He remains
    there gaurding the nest, right up to and after the eggs hatch. 
    After the eggs hatch he stays for about 24 hrs and will even eat some 
    of the young before leaving. The female remains agrresive even after
    she has left the nest for a period of time. People can destroy bass 
    fishing in a pond by keeping females before they lay their eggs, 
    a good thing to keep in mind when you pull in an early bass.
    I welcome any corrections here because it was a few years ago that 
    I read the article.
    
    Jim
   

When we were up to Winni for the week after Memorial Day, it seemed as 
though the bass had not yet spawned. One of the local guys at the 
sporting goods store said he hadn't caught any off the beds yet, though 
some others had said that the spawn was over. Another guy going past the 
dock in a bass boat said the spawn was over in the big lake, but not in 
Paugus Bay (where I was). That didn't make a lot of sense to me, since 
the bay is much smaller than the big lake, hence the water should warm a 
bit more slowly, but hey, what do I know?? I suspect the guy at the store 
was probably right.

I imagine that if they haven't spawned up there yet, it must be soon, 
because of all the warm weather lately.

If I recall correctly, ideal spawning temp for smallmouths is 65 deg. It 
was 58-62 deg when I was there. Following the logic of large water vs 
small, the bass in the ponds and small lakes must have spawned by now.

I fished at Horn pond in Woburn with a friend of mine last Sat. (while 
the wives were at a baby shower - oh joy!) In spite of seeing some jumping 
we had no action at all. Three weeks ago he caught them one after the
other during lunch. The spawn is definitely past there.
    
Ed

    I agree. The small ponds seem to have already experienced the spawn
    whereas the larger ones seem to be experiencing it now. Lucky you-
    getting to fish while the wife is at a baby shower. I'm going fishin'
    tonight- ( my wife's going shopping for maternity clothes <future
    fisherperson on the way>). Hoo Hah!
    
     The Doctah...................................

    Hey Doc...
    
    You better get your fishing in now because things are going to
    change real soon when that little one comes. No such thing as
    just running out to wet a line after the baby is around.
                                                    
    Capt. Codfish (who has a 1 year old son to prove his point)

    re: .4
              YO CODFISH AND DOCTAH...
    
                                  Your babies should not stop you from
    taking part in the untimate sport of fishing. My three children
    go fishing with me wether they like it or not! ha ha! (in reality
    they enjoy it tremendously. Get em' hooked early!!)
    
                                           NIGHTCRAWLER~~~~~~~~~

    I caught a good sized largemouth last night. It went a little better
    than three lbs. If it was a female (I'm not sure) it had definitely
    already spawned. The stomach was small. The fish was caught very
    close to shore. (Half my time was spent retrieving my lures from
    overhanging trees). I used a small perch colored rapala floater.
    I retreived it in a herky-jerky stop and go action It's a good thing
    I was able to see the lure, cause I never felt the bass pick it
    up. It grabbed it and swam sideways, so I neverfelt it at all. It
    gave a good acrobatic show, and I put it back after I weighed it.
    
     The Doctah (who's_hittin'_the_ocean_with_Joe_on_Saturday)
    

    re: 6
    Good catch !
    Not sure if it was female? Remember the female only stays with her
    nest for 48hrs, then the male takes her place until the eggs hatch.
    So the fish especially at 3lbs probably was a male, or young female which
    was feeding not spawning. Bass will come in close to shore to feed
    in the evening and mornings, otherwise will generally stay in deeper
    water. My brother and I caught seventeen bass one year all over
    5lbs. and all from deep water caught in the middle of the afternoon.
    One of the things I have found is that the males, though smaller
    than the females, taste much better especially when their about the
    size you caught 3lbs.
    
    Jim

    Re: 0
    
      Doctah,
    
       Would you mind sharing our secret pond/puddle in Hudson? I 
      Would like to find another spot close other then Robinson pond.
				
					thanks
    						Michael

    Just a thought, but I'm surprised the BASS organizations would
    even want to schedule tournaments during the spawn. Catch and release
    near the bed will not harm the reproductive cycle of the fish, but
    on a lake like winni, you'll be displacing fish many miles...a whole
    years worth of catch and release and then you destroy a years worth
    of offspring for each bass you put in the live well. I'm not on
    any hi horse here, but I imagine the subject has been discussed and
    am curious what the rational was that ended up allowing this to
    happen....:-)
    
    Marty

    Excellent point Marty.
    
    Just to summarize for folks:  Recently, NH imposed a 2 fish limit 
    from May-June to protect spawning bass.  Additionally, from May 15 -
    June 15, it is catch and release only.
    
    On a tournament by tournament basis the NH F&G dept will determine
    whether they feel that the bass population is healthy enough to support 
    a 2 fish per person catch and release tournament. 
    
    Speaking for our club, the New Hampshire Bassmasters, we trust our F&G
    departments judgement on the matter.  If they feel that our tournament 
    will not hurt the smallmouth population on Winnipesaukee (or any given
    lake), that is good enough for us.
    
    On some waters the bass have been holding their own for a very long time, 
    even with the old 5 fish limit during the spawn.  The recent laws will 
    help tremendously.  I think if the bass did ok during the 5 fish limit
    during the spawn, then a controlled number of 2 fish tournaments should
    be quite acceptable. 
    
    -donmac

    Sounds reasonable to me Donmac....Maybe an honor rule not to
    cull would be a good idea though...If you catch 7 fish during the
    day, and keep two, but keep releasing the smaller, but in a
    different area, you've really messed up 7 potential breeders,
    not two...if you have 20 teams with 40 anglers total, you could
    screw up 100's of spawning pairs. Of course, with the results
    of the DEC tourneys I've seen so far, there's probably not much
    to worry about :-), :-) ! 
    
    Marty

    
    
    	Don Mac...do they [NH F&G] have any studies on this?  I read once
    	in the Bassmaster the the University of Missouri did a study for
    	the Bassmaster trail concerning removing the fish from the beds.
    	It stated that fish were back on the beds within three hours.  It
    	DID NOT state if that was a problem or not.   I forget the
    	distances that they released the fish from.
    
    	IMHO- I can't believe that an extended time off the bed is good.
    	It would seem that they hang around the bed for reasons, ones
    	that a study couldn't determine.
    
    	Gitzit'
    	
    	
    

 The mere act of taking a bass off the beds at all can create a problem when
there are alot of sunfish around. Sunfish LOVE bass eggs, and frequently gang
up on the bass guarding the nest. When the bass chases off one intruder, others
come in from the blind side and gobble as many eggs as they can before the
bass returns in a second or two. It's amazing how quickly that sunfish can
home in on an unprotected nest. I would bet that even with the bass returning 
to the beds in three hours, 50% of the eggs will have been eaten (assuming
enough predators).

 The Doctah

    
    	The sunfish is the type of concern that I felt was left out of
    	the article.  Given that the Bassmasters paid for the study....
    	I am at once leery of the results.  
    
    	Given, what I perceive as enthusiasm for this topic, we should
    	keep it in mind as we schedule our tournies.
    
    	Gitzit'
    
    

    
    
            And to complicate things more...ONLY 1/3 of the nests are
            sucessful anyway. Thats before any angler removes him from
            the nest.
    
    
                                                 who else would know better
                                                 then the KIV

    Its ban too warm for too long an de sprawn has started an de basses
    dey are hittin!!!
    
    Me, I'm gonna try an sneak away for som ob it!!
    
    Course Lake Monticello sprawns all year roun...its wun ob dem lakes nex
    to a power genirater wot keep it warm ALL year roun. Deres som more ob
    dem, but Monticello is de mos popular one.
    
    Come on don an we gib it a shot!!
    
    Coonass

    You do realize, don't you, that when you see a bass on a nest it is
    DONE spawning and is now protecting the nest?
    You also realize that it is the MALE rather than the female that is
    protecting the nest, don't you?
    If you catch a bass near the nest and remove it, the nest will be
    obliterated within 30 minutes. Everything from ducks, to bottom-feeding
    fish, to crayfish, to leaches feed on bass eggs. If you have the
    patience, watch a bass nest for an hour or so and count the number of
    times the male chases off a would-be predator. It's amazing how many
    creatures consider bass eggs a delicacy. I once watched a sucker make a
    bee-line for a bass nest from 150 feet away. While the male chased that
    one off, another sucker came in on another direct line. The bass made
    it back JUST in time.
    I guess what I'm saying is that if this catch, keep in livewell, and
    release stuff is happening while the bass are protecting their nests,
    a lot more bass are dying than the ones that don't survive the weighing
    in ceremony.
    
    FWIW
    
    John H-C

    re: .23
    	john,
    		I agree completely. If your gonna fish for bass during
    	(or right after) the spawn, PLEASE release the fish where you
    	caught them! I would hope that the people who run tournies would
    	be aware of this, but it seems that many tournies (at least in
    	MASS) are run during the spawn, with the traditional weigh-in at
    	the launch - I find this a bit scary.
    
    				Robert.

    
     Get the facts!
    
     re .24
    
     Mass for your information (MASS BASS) has removed all tournaments in
     May and the first part of June to avoid the spawn. Please don't
     critisize us MASSHOLES before you have the facts!
    
     - Slam
    

    RE: .23
    
       A little nit picking here.  The male fans out the nest and when he
    has it ready he tries to push any available females onto it.  When he
    finally convinces a willing partner to join him they spend from several
    days to over a week together at the nesting site.  During this time
    they will both protect the area.  After the actual spawning takes place
    the female leaves the area and the responsibility of protecting the
    eggs and later the fry lies with the male.  He spends a few weeks
    guarding them until one day he decides they just look too good to pass
    up and he procedes to eat all of them that he can catch!  This is
    their first real hard lesson on predation.
       I totally agree that EVERYTHING down there will eat the eggs/fry if
    they get half a chance.  I've always felt that a school of perch is
    probably the worst case, they'll wipe it out in just a few minutes.
    
    				B.C. 

    .26 is right, the female does spend a fair amount of time on the nest.
    
    Also, try and remember that in many parts of the country on many bodies
    of water people have been catching and eating fish off the beds for 
    many many years - and the bass population has done pretty good
    in many areas regardless.  
    
    I practice catch and release 99.9% of the time, and I'm glad that NH has 
    enforced a catch and release period from may 15 - June 15, and a 2 fish
    limit for the rest of May and June. I think this will help the fish out
    a great deal - but I'm no where near ready to give up catch and release
    fishing during the spawn.  
    
    In NH, I think the fish and game dept is doing the right thing, by
    controlling the number of tournaments on the lakes.  If they think 
    the fish can handle the pressure, I'll go along with the idea until
    I see results that prove otherwise.
    
    -donmac

    Last year the bass were still on the nest protecting fry in the last
    week in June..... (data from Winnipesaukee)
    
    If you see two fish on the nest for several days, what you are seeing
    is the same male with several different females. He kicks her out as
    soon as she sheds her eggs and proceeds to entice any other female who
    approaches into his nest area.
    
    
    FWIW
    
    John H-C

       I must be wrong.  All the books on Bass that I've read during
    over 30 years of Bass fishing must be wrong also.  You should
    talk to Doug Hannon and tell him the REAL ways of the Bass also
    because you're telling me that he's wrong too.
       Who protects the nest while he's out enticing?
    
    				B.C.
    

    He doesn't have to move more than a few feet. Seems they ALL get randy
    when the water temp is right.

    I should add that I am unable to distinguish one bass from another when
    it's in the water except by species and size. I also can't tell the
    boys from the girls except by the rules I learn from the books.
    So, it is indeed possible that the male chases off the female and then
    lets the same female back after his mood has changed. Who knows?
    Where's Dr. Doolittle?

       During the spawn period the easiest way to tell males from females
    is to simply look at the vent.  The females will be swollen and most
    likely reddish and the males will not.  The biologists way of telling
    the sex is to insert a 1mm dia. probe into the vent.  A male will have
    a vent canal that is angled forward ~45 deg.  and about .75-1in. deep.
    A female will have a vent canal that goes straight in (90 deg.) and
    not nearly as deep.  PLEASE do not go around probing the vents of Bass
    without knowing what you're doing, especially at this time of year.
    According to a Mass. F+G Biologist the swollen vent is as accurate as
    probing during the Apr. to Jul. time frame.  This is from a study of
    approx. 75 animals this spring.  Males can also generally be told by
    the worn and sometimes bloody tail and anal fins.  These are the only
    easily done field tests for sexing Bass.
    
    					B.C.

    Gosh, BC, how do you get `em to hold still while you check out their 
    vents?
    <grin>

       You asked!  That's the straight answer, the way the F+G biologists
    do it.  It's a lot easier when they've been shocked for study.
    
       FYI, No I'm not a fish prober.
    
    				B.C.
    

    re: .25
    
    	That's great news! My apologies - I had thought that tournaments
    	were run through the spawn.
    
    	BTW - I'm a MASSHOLE too.
    
    				Robert.
    
    P.S. - do you know if all the other clubs follow the MASS BASS policy?

        Re last dozen or so..
    
       According to an article from B.A.S.S. that I reas night before last,
    the idea of ONLY the male guarding the nest has been found to be FALSE!
     
       While it is true in SOME cases that the males assume this task, the
    B.A.S.S. people who did this study in various southern waters found
    that the SURVIVABILITY of the fry was over 10 times HIGHER on nests
    where BOTH the male and female did guard duty. This article also
    dispelled the rumor that the males hang around largely for a "free
    meal" of their own fry when they reached a certain age.. They stated
    that while both male and female Bass will surely eat smaller bass, they
    DO NOT attacke/eat their OWN fry from the nest. They MAY encounter some
    of their own offspring in the lake, but the do NOT eat their own fry 
    while they are still in the nest...
    
      B.T.W....Before anyone begins to have this tendency to attack me for
    my concerns regarding the practices that I expressed concern about, I
    DO think that some organizations have their hearts in the right
    places...and may be working to get their heads there too... I happen to
    be a Lifetime B.A.S.S. Member...have been for over 12 years...joined
    back when the Life Membership fee was $200.00....Think it's a LOT more
    now...
    
       JM

    RE: a couple back ...
    
    If the biologists don't shock the fish BEFORE probing their vents, you
    can SURE the fish are shocked AFTER their vents have been probed.
    
    This file is great.  Where else are you gonna read about bass buggery? 
    Hey, isn't that the Harbormaster's brand of boat?
    
    -SSS-

    re: .37
    
    Am I right in assuming that the article was about largemouth bass?
    Do any ponds or lakes in the south have smallmouth bass?
    
    There are about four species of bass found only in the south (other
    than largemouth, that is). Was the article about one of those perhaps?
    
    An interesting data point. Would you be willing to distribute copies or
    rekey it for this note?
    
    Thanks.
    
    John H-C

    >>>Do any ponds or lakes in the south have smallmouth bass?
    
    John, how far south are you talking?  We have lakes in east Tennessee with
    more smallmouth than largemouth.  There are also lakes with LM,SM and
    spotted bass.  Some of these are just north of the Ga, Al and Ms
    borders.
    
    -SSS-

    Sorry, I don't think of Tennessee as south. (My friends from Tennessee
    take this as a personal affront, but I hope you don't.) What I meant
    was the area known as "deep south," I guess. Soupy, very productive
    water that is perpetually warm.
    I don't have any of my reference books handy, but next time I'm logging
    in from home, I'll post the south-specific species.
    Anyway, did the article specify which bass species was studied?

    Here is a curve ball,
    
        If you let all the bass and other fish spawn and the survival rate
    is way up there on the fry you will end up with a lake full of stunted
    fish.  Thats the reason they ended up putting some of the tiger muskie
    in some lakes to get rid of the populations.  I fish  lake that has no
    pressure at all, the sunfish are barley bigger than your palm and the 
    bass ae all 1 pound or less.  This lake is STUNTED, they say that it is
    due to over population but I am not the expert on that.  
        I talked with a fisherman yesterday that has been fishing Kiv's
    favorite spot for 50 years,  he take 5 fish out of there about 5 times
    a week,  yesterday he got a female about 5 lbs, in the bucket it goes,
    He obeys the laws but he is in his right to take them.  He knows right
    where the spawning beds are and goes there every spring catching fish.
    That lake still produces some of the best fishing I have had.  What
    does this mean??  I DONT KNOW I am rambling.............
    
    
    Les

    You be the ump on that pitch:
    Was the lake in question (hypothetical lake that it be) ever stocked
    with anything? 
    I've seen more than my fair share of lakes and ponds where there are
    almost NO fish at all, but those that are there all look small enough
    to be juveniles. Something is severely wrong with those lakes, and my
    own suspicion is that the bottom has been killed. [Yes, that IS
    speculation.]
    If the bluegill and pumpkinseed are small, then the predatory bass
    should have easy access to food to grow on, no?
    I have fished quarries that had nothing but largemouth bass in them. (I
    suppose the bluegill were either all eaten or well hidden.) Bass of all
    sizes came out of those quarries. 
    On another note, I have been under the distinct impression that muskie
    and pike were introduced to take care of certain pelagic fish, such as
    the yellow perch, that occupy all of a lake's zones pretty much all of
    the time, thus crowding out other species, small- and large-mouth not
    being one of them. Can anybody corroborate that?
    
    John H-C

    
     Can I colaberate?
     
     You bet!!
    
     I'll colaberate that since man tied a string and a hook together,
     slapped some bait on it and started fishing there's been fish. Back
     then it was more of neccessaty than sport. Today's times seem to yield
     the opposite. 
     Why do you old ladies get so worked up about these things. Fish is
     fish. They spawn in the spring. If all goes well we'll have more fish
     in the fall.
     Who basically gives 2 hoots weather or not the mail or female guards
     the nest, I don't , What fish do and who watches the nest is thier
     business. I thinks that's a private matter. Kind of like having 
     a bass peek in the ole bedroom to see who guards the sheets. You 
     should listen to yousrselves. Probing vent tubes? My god have
     you really lost it. It's a FISH.
     Time to get back to fishing ... you guy's should do the same.
    
     _SLAM
    
                            ---------
                           /  @   @  \ 
                          /     ^     \
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                        /               \
    
    
    
    

    Took me a little while to track it down, but here is the "book copy" 
    that explained my own observations on bass reproduction. 
    The author is John F. Scarola. The book is "Freshwater Fishes of New
    Hampshire." The publisher is the New Hampshire Fish & Game Department.
    Reproduced without permission.
    
    Smallmouth Bass 
    
    Reproduction : In our area [New Hampshire] the breeding season of the 
    smallmouth bass usually begins in late April and extends through early 
    June. The determining factor is water temperature: it must be at least 
    59 degrees [Fahrenheit] for the commencement of nest building, and 
    between 62 and 65 degrees for the start of egg laying. The male bass 
    constructs the nest by sweeping material away from the bottom with his 
    tail and rooting out coarser material with his snout. The preferred 
    nesting site is in 2 to 12 feet of water on a gravel or rubble bottom 
    with some nearby cover such as a boulder or submerged log. Upon 
    completion, the nest is a conspicuous saucer-shaped depression which 
    measures from 2 to 3 feet in diameter depending on the size of the 
    male. Nest construction may require up to 2 or more days. When the 
    nest is completed, any female who comes into the shallows and 
    approaches the male in search of a mate is immediately coerced onto 
    the nest for spawning. Often the female must be repeatedly driven back 
    to the nest before she is made to remain. While spawning, the fish lie 
    side by side on the bottom of the nest facing the same direction. The 
    male remains in an upright position with the female turned partly on 
    her side as the eggs and milt are extruded. The female is driven off 
    after spawning but another may soon replace her and add eggs to the 
    nest. A 10-inch long female produces roughly 2,000 eggs; one 18-inches 
    long, 10,000 eggs. The male remains over the nest after spawning and 
    zealously guards the eggs, which he keeps free of silt by gently 
    fanning with his fins. Egg incubation requires from 2 to 10 days, 
    depending on water temperature. Upon hatching, the transparent young 
    live on the bottom of the nest between the stone crevices. In a few 
    days they become jet black and rise in a swarm over the nest. In about 
    a week's time --- when the young are about 1-inch in length --- they 
    move from the nest. For as much as a week they are herded about in a 
    school in the shallows by the male, after which they disperse and 
    begin to fend for themselves. Water temperature is crucial to both the 
    development of the eggs and the young. It has been shown that if the 
    water temperature rises as high as 73.5 degrees, eggs in the final 
    stage of development will be killed. The male will desert the nest if 
    the temperature of the water suddenly drops below 60 degrees due to a 
    cold snap, [and] the eggs or young will be left vulnerable to 
    predators.
    
    
    The author notes that, in New Hampshire, largemouth bass are generally 
    much smaller than elsewhere in the country, with a 6-pound largemouth 
    being considered a very large one. The reproductive habits of the 
    largemouth bass in NH are very similar to those of the smallmouth 
    excepting some small differences in temperature sensitivity and some 
    marked differences in nest-building habits.
    
    
    For the record: I believe that every body of standing water is unique. 
    I have never seen two that looked exactly alike, either in bottom 
    topology or visible inhabitants.
    
    
    John H-C

    Apologies to all excepting one.
    
    This, unfortunately, is the only file where I occasionally find people
    who give an expletive about freshwater. I assumed there were a few folk
    interested in ichthyology among all of the ichthyophagous creatures
    here.
    
    My mistake, apparently.
    
    John H-C

    Unfortunately I have to put the dusty mod hat back on for a few...
    
    Most of the replies in the "Back Home Bass" topic after reply #23 were 
    moved here, to a more relevant topic - a few were moved into the rathole.
    
    Discussions of all biological aspects of the bass, or any fish for that
    matter, are welcome in this notesfile.
    
    If you do not want to take part in this discussion, quit whining and
    simply ignore this topic.
    
    -donmac