Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

       Steve, 
             The secret is is to go hunting in the fall. Get all your new
    fishing gear at Christmas. Get all your gear ready in February and
    start fresh in March!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
                                              Scott.       

    I think you need to learn to flyfish. Won't guarantee you fish, but
    you'll at least get to feel noble about not getting anything. 8-)
    
    All the dumb hungry fish fresh from the trout farm have been caught or
    have died by this time of year. 

    I'm still hoping to hear from someone with a fall trout-fishing success 
    story.  Meanwhile, I'll keep trying myself.  I was hoping someone might 
    explain how fall fishing techniques differ from the spring?
    
    
    Re:-1
    
    >I think you need to learn to flyfish. Won't guarantee you fish, but
    >you'll at least get to feel noble about not getting anything. 8-)
    
    I do a limited amount of dry fly fishing, and a lot of trolling
    with streamers that I tie myself.  It doesn't make me feel much better
    knowing that I got skunked on something I tied myself...  ;^)
    
    
    >All the dumb hungry fish fresh from the trout farm have been caught or
    >have died by this time of year. 
    
    I read in the paper that they just stocked Webster, Quinsig, and
    several other area lakes just a few weeks ago.  I saw a lot of fish
    down near the bottom on the fishfinder; I wonder if maybe the water 
    hasn't turned over enough yet?   Isn't that when they're supposed to
    turn on?  After the thermocline disappears?
    
    
    Re: -2
    
    If things don't improve soon maybe I should consider getting the old 1100
    out for something other than deer season...
    
    -Stevie D

    My understanding is that the trout dumped by the state respond to water
    that is 45 degrees. Colder than that or warmer than that, and they just
    don't seem to bite as much. Maybe there is a trout expert around here
    who can confirm or deny this rumor?
    
    As for turnover, well, I think most of the lakes and ponds that have a
    _real_ turnover (actually fairly rare in MA) will have done so already.
    
    The local rivers in NE MA are running in the low 50's to high 40's, 
    reflecting ground temperature more than anything else.
    
    Do you ever use wet flies?
    
    And now for a question that probably belongs in FLYFISHING:
    
    Is there such a thing as a lure that looks like a dragonfly nymph? If
    there is, what kind of fish are known to take it?
    
    John H-C

    
    Water reaches maximum density at 4 degrees C (just over 39 F).  While
    most lakes and ponds above roughly Manchester NH have probably turned 
    over by now, I doubt that many of the lakes in MA that do "turn" have 
    turned yet - the  weather has been getting raw but just not that cold 
    yet (though after this weekend it might be closer). 
    
    I can't completely refute the rumor but I think I can call it into
    question:
    
    I've helped stock a few streams and can tell you that the trout always
    started feeding on everything in sight (including small stones and
    other non-foodforms) as soon as they hit the water - which was
    generally in the mid-50s. It takes a while before hatchery fish figure
    out what gives them energy and what doesn't - which makes them easy
    prey for just about anything you throw at them when they're fresh out
    of the truck...
    
    Trout are always feeding except during their spawning season (which is
    right now for Brookies and Browns, and the spring for most Rainbows).
    But because movement = energy loss, a trout lives a precariously balanced
    life. 
    
    Therefore, trout are opportunistic feeders - they'll be as active as
    their foodsource is plentiful. On balance, they will restrict their
    feeding movements in colder water, which coincides with low insect
    activity, and will move further and faster to capture food as the 
    temperature rises and insect activity increases, until the high end of 
    their comfort zone is reached, where they again start to become lethargic
    and the food population decreases.
    
    As far as the temperature range trout are usually most active feeders
    (their "comfort zone") in water between 50 and 65 degrees F. But trout
    are still feeding in the late fall. It's a matter of changing both bait
    and presentation. You have to cover more water, and cover it slower, to
    locate the fish. In the best of the comfort zone a trout might chase a
    bait many yards; right now you have to bounce them off their beaks to
    get a strike...
    
    And as for those FLYFISHING questions: ;^)
    
    I rarely fish wet flies - if you mean the classic English or Catskill
    wet fly patterns. I love tying them, but I seem to avoid fishing them,
    favoring dries, nymphs, and streamers, in that order of preference. In
    the early spring, especially during the Hendrickson hatches, I will use 
    a wet fly as an emerger, but that seems to be the extent of it for me...
    
    With the water getting colder, the last few times out I've had best
    luck dead-drifting nymphs, very slowly and covering every likely spot
    carefully. Of the patterns I've been using, the "attractors" have
    worked best. Gold Ribbed Hares  Ears and Red Fox Squirrel Tails are at
    the top of my late fall nymph list. But other people have had good 
    results with large stonefly nymphs, again, fished deep and slow...
    
    Yes, there are probably a few  dozen popular ties for dragonfly nymphs
    - and another dozen or two for damselflies. And as luck (not to mention
    a high protein payload) would have it, nearly every freshwater gamefish
    will nail them on sight: they give fish a great return-on-energy-invested.
    I've latched up with Browns, 'Bows, and Brookies, and both Smallmouth and 
    Largemouth bass, and even a pickerel on occasion, using these big buggers.
    Most of the patterns are not difficult to tie and the materials are
    generally cheap, although you can expect to pay $2 to $3 for store-tied
    dragons...
    
    Tight Lines and Dry Waders!
    
    /dave

This is an interesting topic. I don't know whether it's a
good time for me to say something about trout fishing in
Montana. As far as I know, Fall is the best time to fish
down there. I had been there for years. My record was a
21 inches rainbow trout. At this time of the year, trouts
are supposed to go upstreams. If you can find some place
that block trouts to go further, such as dam, then you 
can fish below the dam and can always have surprises. 
According to my experience, the best time will be 2-3 
weeks before Tnahksgiving.

Just for your reference because I have noidea about the 
trout fishing in MA and NH. Good Luck !

Rick Tsai in TAO(DEC Taiwan Branch)

    The water in White Pond in Concord, MA was 46 dgrees F from the surface
    to 55 feet today. It turned over some time in the last six weeks, and
    the benthic life showed it. 
    
    This is in response to the question raised earlier about MA ponds and
    lakes turning over. The fish have all started their winter routines
    already, as nearly as we could tell. That is, we didn't see any of any
    species, and the crayfish were all deep in their burrows, which is
    unusual when there are no fish out and about (except in winter).
    
    FWIW
    
    John H-C

    This past Sunday after noon I had to chose between raking the leaves off
of my back yard or fishing ...............

    I started out by hiking up to 'The Bend' from the lower gate (the road
in to the lower gate - unbeknownst to me - has been open since mid-summer).

    There were a couple of hikers up in the valley but no fisherpeople.

    The water was up at the level where it usually is during the spring,
not unexpected after a week of scattered rain, but was clear and cold. I
caught a small rainbow ( approx. 8 inches) from the eddy on a Colorado
spoon, threw a few more casts, switched to a little cleo, lost it to a
snag, and switched to a Mepps #1 black furry (black spinner blade w/red-
orange spots, red bead at the treble and the treble dressed with red-
orange hackle). Cast this around the pool and then threw a cast up into
the fast water at the head of the pool. Just as the spinner swung into the
slacker water closer to shore I thought I got hung up but in fact was
taken very gently by what turned out to be a beautiful FAT FIRM sixteen
plus inch rainbow! The fish fought hard against the four pound Stren but
the fight was quick as the hookup had occurred almost at my feet. The color
on this fish was spectacular; dark brown/green with a tight pattern of
black squiggles and a wide bright burgundy band along the lateral line. The
burgundy band seemed to be quite scratched up ..... ?from working out a
reed?

    Being C&R both fish were admired and released.

    I stopped to fish below the Rt112 bridge on my way home (the first
bridge below Knightville damn) and after no luck with hardware tied on
a piece of garden hackle. Dead drift down into a hole behind a boulder
and there's the pickup - set the hook and found myself connected to a
VERY STRONG fish! Fought/played for a minute or two and landed a 16.5
inch rainbow just as nice and pretty as the other. This fish I kept
and killed. It was a bull trout with developed but not overly gorged milt
sacks and a FULL stomach. I cut the stomach and found it to be full
of gravel and little hard shelled aquatic 'bugs'. These bugs were dark
mottled brown, the size of a lady bug, a small thin tail, a very flat
underside with ?6? legs towards the head (legs underneath - not visible
looking down from the top), and a 'pin head' head ....         

                                    *
                                   ( )
                                    `

    Hard enough that handling them did not crush the shell.

    Nice salmon pink meat ........... can't wait to put that fish on my
plate.

    Now - anyone want to hazard a guess as to what the little buggies
were/are?

---

Joe Whittemore - From where the Westfield
                      Meets the Westfield
                         By the Westfield
                            In Huntington (MA)

                      whittemore@wfodev.enet.dec.com  
                 [ jdw%sniff.wfo.dec.com@decwrl.dec.com ]

    Springtail is what leapt to mind when I read your description.
    
    Sorry I don't know the latin name. (I make a point of not learning the
    latin names.)
    
    These are surface insects that grab a bubble and breathe off it when
    submerged.
    
    

    Well I finally had some minor sucess, but we had to work hard to get them.
    
    Went to Comet Pond in Hubbardston(sp?).  Air temp was 32, while the
    water was 40 from top to bottom. Mighty cold!
    
    Picked up a small 12" brown not far off the boat ramp right up on top 
    trolling a Maynard Marvel streamer.  Tried a few more passes over the same 
    water, but no more takers.  
    
    About 2 hrs later caught a pretty 14" rainbow on a silver and red Super 
    Duper trolled at the end of 3 colors of lead core.  We were about 30
    yds off the swimming beach in 30' of water.
    
    That was it for the day's action.  Not the most exciting day of fishing
    I've ever had, but better than my last two trips to Quinsig and Webster 
    Lake where I couldn't even catch a cold...
    
    -Stevie D

    Now that hunting season is over with, I am getting out of hunting notes
    and getting into fishing notes.  Since I am an avid trout fisherman,
    I enjoy reading about trout fishing.
    
    Down here in Georgia, we have a river called the Chattahoochee river
    that constantly has a temperature of 45 degrees year round.  One of
    the hottest lures for this river for trout is a gold and brown sinking
    rapala.  Preferably in the 3/4 inch length.  I recall back when I
    fished the Eastern Sierra's, that the same lure was used to catch alot
    of native browns and rainbows.
    
    perhaps if this lure is legal to fish, you might try it.  
    
    BTW, I am searching for sonic roostertails.  Does anybody know where
    I can find some, either in Atlanta, or mail order.  The yellow sonic
    roostertail is my MOST productive trout lure in my 11 years of trout
    fishing.
    
    God, only 83 more days until trout season.
    
    Bob
    

    Bass Pro Shops catalog should have the sonics. (Hi, Bob!)