Conference vmszoo::vmsmail

	A ' in the local-part of an Internet address is unusual.  sendmail
	(on the RMC's) is appearing to mis-parse it.

	Try quoting the local-part, ie, 

		"D'Eramo"@mail.dec.com

	However I would really recommend getting your mailbox name renamed,
	you'll find having a ' in your email address to cause nothing but
	problems .....

>        I did get the following to work on the DCL command line:
>        
>                smtp%"""D'Eramo@mail.dec.com"""
>        
>        The corresponding form smtp%"D'Eramo@mail.dec.com" worked from
>        DECwindows mail.  But I can't seem to find a way to get the
>        US3RMC::"<what goes here?>" format to work.  Any ideas?

If the smtp% format address works, why bother with USnRMC? Does this 
problem need solving?

Colin.

> $ mail/notransport/subject="test" tt: us3rmc::"""D'Eramo@mail.dec.com"""
> %MAIL11D-E-FATAL: cannot send mail to "D'Eramo@mail.dec.com"
> 554 <d"eramo@mail.dec.com>... Unbalanced '<'

	BTW, another thing that can cause this is your personal name.
	Do a:

		Mail> show personal

	and see if you have any ()'s, <>'s, etc in it ....

        re .2
        
>If the smtp% format address works, why bother with USnRMC? Does this 
>problem need solving?
        
        I think more OpenVMS systems have access to DECnet's
        node::"""name@a.b.c""" format than have access to the smtp%
        format.  Even if there is no way to do it with the DECnet
        gateway format, I'm still accessible at specxn::DEramo or
        DEramo@specxn.enet.dec.com for anyone whose mailer cannot
        handle D'Eramo@mail.dec.com.  But I'm curious if it can be
        done.
        
        Dan

        re .3
        
        It fails whether
        
        	MAIL> set personal "Dan D'Eramo"
        
        or
        
        	MAIL> set nopersonal
        
        is in place.
        
        Dan

I did a couple of tests with Dan and confirmed he
is reachable at:
	xxxRMC::"d\'eramo@mail.dec.com"

the \ is a quote character in this case, preventing
the ' from being interpreted as a delimiter

if sending from the command line, or putting
in a set forward command, then you need to triple
the quotes:
	xxxRMC::"""d\'eramo@mail.dec.com"""

we're now trying to figure out why Exchange isn't
quoting that character itself when sending mail.

        Exchange is already doing the right thing -- i.e., spelling my
        name correctly -- when it says I'm at D'Eramo@mail.dec.com .
        The last thing I want is for that to change.
        
        Dan

> Exchange is already doing the right thing -- i.e., spelling my
> name correctly -- when it says I'm at D'Eramo@mail.dec.com .
> The last thing I want is for that to change.

	which would you rather have, an email address that *everyone* can
	easily send to, or one that's spelt correctly, but is likely to
	get munged by the diverse set of mail systems and gateways out
	there in the real world (the whole world is not MS Exchange,
	thank goodness).

>	which would you rather have, an email address that *everyone* can
>	easily send to, or one that's spelt correctly, but is likely to
>	get munged by the diverse set of mail systems and gateways out
>	there in the real world (the whole world is not MS Exchange,
>	thank goodness).
        
        One that is spelled correctly.  It's my name.
        
        Dan

>>	which would you rather have, an email address that *everyone* can
>>	easily send to, or one that's spelt correctly, but is likely to
>>	get munged by the diverse set of mail systems and gateways out
>>	there in the real world (the whole world is not MS Exchange,
>>	thank goodness).
>         One that is spelled correctly.  It's my name.

	You are pulling my leg??  You'd rather not get mail?
	Sometimes one has to swallow their pride/vanity and be
	practical.  Take for example my last name.  If I'm lucky,
	one out of ten can correctly pronounce it.  So when I go
	to a restaurant and there's a wait, or I make a reservation,
	I use my mother's maiden name.

	Another example of practicality.  You wrote you note from:

	    SPECXN::DERAMO
                    ^^^^^^

	otherwise you wouldn't of been able to write your NOTES ...

        In the late 1970's the username on my Multics account was my
        last name, D'Eramo.  It worked fine, mail worked fine, etc.  I
        can't help it that the software that Digital chooses to use is
        over twenty years behind the times with respect to names.  I
        think I've waited for long enough.  Exchange can spell my name
        correctly (perhaps its only redeeming feature) and that's how
        I'm going to use it.  They can change me to Dan@mail.dec.com
        or leave D'Eramo@mail.dec.com alone or remove my Exchange
        account altogether.
        
        Besides, D'Eramo@mail.dec.com *does* work; so far it works for
        everybody but those using a DECnet gatewy::"..." style
        address.  And they can use the backslash.
        
        Dan

> In the late 1970's the username on my Multics account was my
> last name, D'Eramo.  It worked fine, mail worked fine, etc.

	I would assume it worked fine intra-system, or even between
	directly connected Multics systems, but how well did it
	work over UUCP?

> I can't help it that the software that Digital chooses to use is
> over twenty years behind the times with respect to names.

	It's not just Digital.  How well do you think usernames with
	accented or multi-byte characters would work across the
	diverse set of systems on the Internet?

> Besides, D'Eramo@mail.dec.com *does* work; so far it works for
                                             ^^^^^^
> everybody but those using a DECnet gatewy::"..." style
> address.  And they can use the backslash.

	If I were you I'd try having someone on America On-Line
	try sending you mail, as well as a Juno user (and maybe
	a Compuserve user, an AT&T Network user, and MSN).

	As I've implied before, my concern is not that other DECies
	can't send you mail, but that the outside world *may* not
	be able to......

   Dan, the horse is dead -- if you want the ' in your mail name, you
   can expect to have problems with mail.

   You may be able to work around these via forwarding, routing through
   specific gateways, and other techniques.  Or you may not.

   SMTP gateways are notorious for spewing on characters they do not
   like -- the UK schools have/had a gate that spewed on a personal name
   that contained a ";".

   Whether or not you like it, support for non-alphanumeric characters in
   usernames are "bleeding edge" features in many mailers and many gateways,
   regardless of your decades-old Multics experience to the contrary.

   The simple question: How much do you want to know about SMTP mailers
   and mail gateways, and how much do you want to have to explain to folks
   so that they can send you mail?

   When the whole computing world has been assimilated by the folks from
   Redmond and all gateways have become irrelevent, this situation might
   change.  (But we'll be busy cleaning up after the e-mail virii...)

>   The simple question: How much do you want to know about SMTP mailers
>   and mail gateways,
        
        I suppose a pointer to the latest RFC describing valid email
        addresses would be sufficient.
        
>                      and how much do you want to have to explain to folks
>   so that they can send you mail?
        
        I think I can get by with
        
        	D'Eramo@mail.dec.com
        	if your mailer can't handle the above,
        	then use DEramo@specxn.enet.dec.com
        
        Dan

RE: .14

	Ugh... You'd rather have mail go to your VMSmail/DECnet system
	if you can't get it at your SMTP address?

	I'm STILL trying to convince people to stop sending me mail
	at foley@axel.enet.dec.com and send it to foley@axel.zko.dec.com.
	Then I can reply to them with a valid SMTP address.

							mike

>	Ugh... You'd rather have mail go to your VMSmail/DECnet system
>	if you can't get it at your SMTP address?
        
        Good point.  The cluster alias SPECXN does not work when used
        as DEramo@specxn.cxo.dec.com but each member of the cluster
        can receive email, so the alternative can be either of
        
        	DEramo@strike.cxo.dec.com
        	DEramo@fmcsse.cxo.dec.com
        
        Dan

   
:>   The simple question: How much do you want to know about SMTP mailers
:>   and mail gateways,
:        
:        I suppose a pointer to the latest RFC describing valid email
:        addresses would be sufficient.

   I made that mistake once -- I once believed that tools that complied
   with the RFCs would interoperate, that what the RFCs described could
   be implemented, and that the RFCs contained a complete and unambiguous
   description of the "standard".  (Yes, I know RFCs are not a "standard".)

   Anyway: see the ~rfc directory on host trix.
   Specifically, see "/usr/ftp/root/rfc/rfc-index.txt"

   They are available at various sites around the internet, as well.

:>                      and how much do you want to have to explain to folks
:>   so that they can send you mail?
:        
:        I think I can get by with
:        
:        	D'Eramo@mail.dec.com
:        	if your mailer can't handle the above,
:        	then use DEramo@specxn.enet.dec.com
        
   It's more than the end-user's mailer, it's also all the various
   old/new/odd gateways one can encounter.

   --

   I found that one needed to use the least common demoninator in order
   to interoperate, and that <'> wasn't always in that character set.

:	I'm STILL trying to convince people to stop sending me mail
:	at foley@axel.enet.dec.com and send it to foley@axel.zko.dec.com.
:	Then I can reply to them with a valid SMTP address.

   Upgrade to the current UCX ECO -- I haven't seen any problems.

    I have a customer who is having the same problem. They are saying that
    under VMS 6.2 they were able to leave off SMTP%" and just send it as 
    B'NAME@XXXX.XXX.COM and it worked fine. Now that they upgraded to VMS
    7.1 and try to send mail to the above name they get MAIL-E-USERSPEC.
    If they add the SMTP%""B'NAME@XXXX.XXX.COM"" all is fine. The customer
    doesn't want to do this and feel that this is a bug in VMS and wants me
    to IPMT this problem. I've tried to explain that whenever you use
    Reserve Characters in VMSMAIL that they have to use the full command to
    send mail. To them, this is unacceptable. I've also suggested that they
    can create a distribution list for this particular user. They said that
    they can do this but they want the problem fixed.
    What else can I tell this customer to get them off of my back?
    J.D.Hill
    Colorado/CSC
    SYSMGT Support

   Log the IPMT -- medium- to low-priority, as the customer has a good
   workaround for the problem.

   "Odd" characters will -- and always have -- required quotation.

   Have the customer put an alias in the local MAIL database for this
   target user.

    Hi Steve,
    	Am I right to say that Apostrophe's are Special/Reservered
    Characters?
    J.D.

'
"
@
\
/

to name a few.

:    	Am I right to say that Apostrophe's are Special/Reservered
:    Characters?

   Yes.  Most any character other than a seven-bit alphanumeric, dollar
   sign, and an underscore are generally considered "odd".  In this
   specific case, the period and the at-sign are also parsed.

   Check the Internet RFCs 821 and 822 for information around SMTP.
   (See `TRIX::"~rfc"' for the DIGITAL-local archive of RFCs.)