| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 67.1 | Some Suggestions | PUNDIT::COLBY | KEN | Tue Feb 24 1987 10:33 | 14 |
| I think that for the money, one of the best buys in an RC Heli radio
on the markey today is the Circuis Hobbies Apallo. However, for
the slight difference, you might want to consider the Century VII.
In all of the constests that I have been to, it seems to be the
most popular heli radio at the meets.
My local hobby store dealer has told me that he has received some
info that Futaba is going to produce a Conquest Heli version of
that series radio. He wasn't sure of the price or the availability
date but you may want to check on that radio. I think that may
even be somewhat less money, but don't know the features, etc.
Ken
|
| 67.2 | 2nd vote for the Century VII | MDADMN::EATOND | Dan Eaton | Tue Feb 24 1987 14:01 | 7 |
| Here's a second vote for the Century VII. The way I looked at it
when I bought mine was that it was better to spend a little extra
for the VII than to get something cheaper. Its a false economy to
buy a cheaper radio and then replace it a year or two later with
something that matches your now "improved" abilities.
Dan Eaton
|
| 67.6 | SETTING UP HELI RADIO ANYONE? | RDGCSS::WARWICK | | Mon Aug 10 1987 09:38 | 25 |
| Can anyone help me understand how to set up my helicopter
transmitter?
It is a JR Apex 7 - apparently it is the latest model and is
a bit different from the ones used by guys I know.
The problem is that this is the first heli radio I have had
having just started with choppers ( RC aircraft at all, come to
that ) and the instructions that came with it are useless!
It seems they were written in sansrcit by some one who either
knew nothing about the subject or else knew a lot but is not
letting on.
I have got more useful info from toilet walls than this 6 page
apology for an owners manual!
Yours
'Confused of Reading ( UK )'
AKA Brian Warwick
|
| 67.7 | SO SOLLY PREASE! | GHANI::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT RC-AV8R | Mon Aug 10 1987 15:13 | 20 |
| Dear Confused,
First thanx for the VaxMail highlighting the events of your first
outing with the new chopper and congratulations on your success.
May I suggest you copy that great account somewhere into NOTES so
all RC NOTERS can enjoy and share your experience.
Next, I don't profess to know much (anything) about helicopter but
I would suggest you don't crum JR too badly as the situation you've
encountered with the instruction manual is almost universal to ALL
radio systems....particularly those of foreign origin, Japanese,
Korean, etc. They simply do a lousy job of translating technical
information into English! Yer' BEST bet here is to find someone
experienced with helicopter radio installations (preferrably on
your specific or similar radio) and have this person help explain
the intricacies, features, etc. of your set-up. Just persevere
and you'll get 'er worked out. Maybe some of the heli-oriented
NOTERS can offer some more useful advise.
Adios....and congratulations again, Al
|
| 67.8 | Got it up for the first time at 40! | RDGCSS::WARWICK | | Mon Aug 10 1987 20:19 | 93 |
| Ok Al - you suggested I put this in Notes and here it is!
I hope it is of interest to others or at least gives someone a laugh!
Brian
From: RDGCSS::WARWICK "I might as well be parking cars ..." 10-AUG-1987 10:20
To: GHANI::CASEYA,KERNEL::DAY,WARWICK
Subj: Latest DEC chopper pilot survives first flight
Hi Bob and Al,
Just popped into the office for a couple of hours before going off
on an SSAD training course and thought you might be interested in
my news.
I DID IT! Well just about.
I went to Box Hill on Sunday - the Box Hill Club held their 1987
fly-in ( I even got a souvenir tee shirt when signing on at the
transmitter pound! ).
I was amazed by the number of personalities there - John Wallington,
Len Mount, Jim Morley, Vago whatsit, etc, etc, etc.
There must have been 50 pilots, 100 choppers and another 100
spectators.
The weather stayed mainly dry and a good time was had by all with some
excellent flying - Tim Angel ( owner of Thames Valley Models, member
of committee for Reading and District Model Aircraft Club and my sponsor
for the day ) came third in the autorotation contest beating John
Wallington and Len Mount!
Tim helped me check out my Cyclone - just a tweak here and there on
the collective and tail rotor and the OS50 started first time ( out of
the box! ).
Although the clutch was fast at first and the throttle/pitch needed a
tweak Tim leapt it into the air and it hovered - this with no gyro at
this time.
Tim out a tank full of fuel thru' it and I retired to make a few
adjustments.
Later in the day I claimed my transmitter and went off to a quiet
corner of the field.
This was it!
One of Tim's friends from RADMAC stood with me and hurled advice at me
faster than I could understand what the chopper was doing let alone
understand what he was telling me to do and I had it off the ground.
The next 20 minutes saw Mick having brown socks about every 30 seconds.
How I do not drive it into the ground at absurd angles he and I will
never know!
Oh, by the way, I did not have any garden canes or other aids on the
chopper - the store was closed when I went by first thing in the morning.
I could not truthfully say that I hovered the Cyclone but did manage
a number of short hops around the field - at one time I fed in too much
collective when I thought I was beginning to guess what it was going to
do when it defied gravity and clawed into the air - before you could
say SHIT it was at shoulder height and moving sideways towards me and
to Mick's consternation, him!
Twiddle, twiddle later and ease off the left hand a bit and it was moving
away but heading for the ground a mite fast.
And so it went on.
I did not break anything - it always landed on it's skids and I had learnt
a great deal of respect for this bucking bronco - I had also learnt that
I was scared SH**TLESS.
I can't wait to get out again! and scare myself some more.
I have joined the Reading club - RADMAC ( I may still join you at
Basingstoke, Bob ) and if the weather is OK will be out on Wednesday nite
trying to look cool and not terrorise the other pilots.
WHAT HAVE I LET MYSELF IN FOR? I MUST BE MAD!
By for now
Brian
|
| 67.9 | fly like a bird????? | BASHER::DAY | Just playing with my chopper.... | Wed Aug 12 1987 12:23 | 55 |
|
Hya Brian....
The instructions that come with the APEX set
are about as much use as a fart in a thunderstorm....
The goodies to set up on the APEX, and these are common to
other comparibly priced Heli-Sets are:-
1. Pitch curve, upper and lower. Pitch trim.
2. ATS or tail rotor compensation.
3. Idle up.
4. Throttle hold.
5. Cyclic dual rates.
Firstly you need to set the beast up to hover at half stick, this
set doesn't have a 'Hover Throttle'. This is important 'cos the
upper and lower pitch curves and idle up phase in/out at half stick.
1. The pitch curves are set up to match the pitch change to engine
throttling characteristics... The idea is that as the
throttle/collective is opened the engine revs stay constant-ish,
the extra power turning higher pitch rotors... To little pitch change
and the engine will over rev, to much and the revs will die.
Changes in motor rpm, hence torque, need to be compensated for
with more/less tail rotor.
Believe it or not the upper pitch curve works above half
stick, and the lower below.. The upper curve setting positive
pitch, and the lower negative (for when these things are upside
down )
I set my lower pitch curve to give 0 pitch at low throttle. I
find my chopper heads for the ground quite quick enough, without
the help of -ve pitch sucking it down even faster.
Simple eh?...
The others you are better off leaving switched out. It's just
turned pub time, so I'll explain the others when I've
wetted my whistle a bit.....
bob
|
| 67.10 | Buuuuurrrrrppppppppp! | BASHER::DAY | Just playing with my chopper.... | Wed Aug 12 1987 13:44 | 51 |
|
That's better... here we go. if you really must
switch these other goodies in. This is what you do.
2. ATS, automatic tail compensation. Not sure how that
abbreviates to ATS, but there you go.
ATS applies tail rotor pitch automatically as you move
the throttle/collective (t/c) stick. It adjusts the pitch
to compensate for, amount of t/c input and rate of t/c
input. As you apply t/c stick the transmitter mixes in some
tail pitch. Notice this is applied on stick movement NOT
actual tail movement..
The problem with AST is that is needs to be set up with
the Gyro switched out, but until you can actually fly you
need the Gyro switched in.. A small problem... When you've
sorted that out you can think about setting the ATS up.
Firstly you must decide wether you need left or right
compensation. This is easy to figure out. Select l or r
and wind the compensation pots to max. get the thing
hovering and open the throttle. If it spins round and
crashes into the ground you guessed wrong.... Give lots
of money to the local model shop, repair it and take off
with the switch the other way. Seriously, l or r depends on
direction of rotation of main rota, and thrust of tail rota.
set it so that as you open the throttle the tail rota thrust
opposes the torque reaction.
My set has 2 ATS pots. One that mixes in more tail pitch,
proportional to the amount of t/c stick movement. The other
mixes in a 'kick' of tail pitch proportional to the RATE
of stick movement.
To set it up, get the thing into a hover, open the t/c stick.
twiddle the ATS pots until the tail stays steady and it just
climbs straight up. Now you can switch the Gyro back on.
On a Heli-set two seperate functions, ie throttle and collective
are driven from the same stick.. This sometimes causes problems.
idle-up and Throttle hold solve these problems.
To be continued in another reply, 'cos I doubt if this link
will stay up long enough
|
| 67.11 | and finally | BASHER::DAY | Just playing with my chopper.... | Wed Aug 12 1987 14:39 | 75 |
|
3. Idle up, is mainly used when you are int aerobatics and
other posey things.
Imagine that you are John Wallington or Vago Whatsit... and
you want pull a loop. You give your chopper lots of forward
speed, ie lots of throttle and collective. You apply some
back cyclic to do the loop. Half way round the loop you still
have lots of throttle and lots of pitch, in other words lots
of lift.. Since the chopper is upside down, lots of lift makes
you go towards the ground.. This doesn't make for very round
loops. or very clean trousers...
Idle up 'disconnects' the throttle from collective. So you can
use the t/c stick to vary the pitch, but keep the throttle open,
ie keep the motor torque constant, so keep the tail straight.
The actual amount of throttle is set with the Idle up pot, up
to the equivalent of half stick.
You may as well leave it switched out for the next year or two.
If you really want to you can set it to keep the engine revs up
during decents. however this does mean that when your precious
helicopter is thrashing around on the ground, trying to dig
through to Oz and you pull the t/c stick back, it'll keep
digging until you manage to switch the idle up off.... I suggest
that you set the idle up to min so that should it get switched in
it doesn't keep the revs up......
The APEX also has idle up rate... In this case, if you haven't got
idle up selected the you must be hovering. If you're hovering you
want the machine docile.
The posh heli sets have 2 idle ups (?) to cater for different
flying requirements.....
5. Throttle Hold is not dissimilar to idle up. Only it is used to
hold the throttle at a good idle, allowing you to vary the
collective, say during an auto-rotation....
I find it handy to switch in when I want to put the Tx down while
the engine is running. That way should the TX fall over (and I've
seen this happen) the chopper won't leap into the air....
6. Cyclic rates are the same as aileron/elevator rate on a
fixed wing set.. When switched in the amont of servo movement
is set by the rate pot between 20-100% of the servo movement
without the rates off... Ie less servo mevement for a given
amount of stick movement... The effect is to dampen the machines
response.
I leave mine at 100% so that it doesn't matter if they get
switched on accidently..
Somes heli-sets have an invert switch.. This is for use when the
thing is intentionally upside down.. When it's in this state, several
functions work backwards.. The Invert switch sets your transmitter
inverts several channels so that flying upside down requires the
same stick movements as if it were the right way up.. eg opening
the t/c stick gives more negative pitch, and forw/back cyclic are
reversed....I'ts most entertaining when this switch is thrown
accidently....
Cheers
bob
|
| 67.12 | WHUT'D HE SAY....?? | GHANI::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT RC-AV8R | Wed Aug 12 1987 14:57 | 9 |
| Bob,
Re: your last reply(ies) regarding heli-radio set-up....HUHHHHHHHH??
If I ever had any doubts, you've just convinced me to stick with
the fixed-wings and leave the squirrely-birds to the more intrepid,
FOREVER!
Adios, Al
|
| 67.13 | Great explaination | 29930::FISHER | Battery, Mags, & Gas Off! | Wed Aug 12 1987 17:20 | 20 |
| Thanks Bob Day.
I don't have a Heli but I've read several accounts of radio adjustments
including one that just came with my new JR Single stick (book covered
both Pattern and Heli versions).
Up till now I've never read anything that made any real since to me.
Now I know why you guys want special radios.
Thanks again for doing such a good job of explaining the unexplainable.
P.S. For the record the directions with my JR are slightly better than
with my Futaba. But - both are skimpy and assume a lot.
_!_
Bye ----O----
Kay R. Fisher / \
================================================================================
|
| 67.14 | Ever thought of writing manuals? | RDGCSS::WARWICK | | Thu Aug 13 1987 07:55 | 17 |
| Thanks a bunch Bob - I found your explanations very helpful.
I think that I have it pretty well set up now ( must admit I had
some help from a couple of guys in the Reading club ) as I have
been out for a second time and am managing to hop around.
In fact, last night I even managed an almost perfect take-off and
long smooth 20 feet flight at 3-4 feet high with gentle landing.
I'm not so scared of it now - well not quite so scared! - great
enit!
Thanks again
Brian
|
| 67.15 | and there's more... | BASHER::DAY | Just playing with my chopper.... | Thu Aug 13 1987 13:35 | 51 |
|
G'day
The facilities offered by a heli-set aren't
actually that complicated. I dare say a decent fixed
wing set is just as bad, what with mixing this and that,
auto rudder, up/down adjustment, end point adjustment etc
The difference is, with a helicopter you must have these
goodies to do anything other than hover..
The really tricky bit is setting them up correctly. I
guess this is where experience counts...
ATS is an awkward one. If you alter any other function,
eg pitch trim or giro gain then the ATS will need to be altered to
compensate.. Similarly if you set while it was windy, it will
need resettting to fly in different conditions. ATS virtually
needs to be set on a flight by flight basis... lot of
aggrevation that...... It's what your left thumb's for.
A function that you find on better Heli-sets is a
thing called Hovering Throttle....
With the APEX set it assumes that the machine is
set up to hover at half stick. Functions like pitch curves
and idle up phase in/out at half stick... If your chopper
hovers at 3/4 stick, then you get problems....
Hovering throttle allows you to set 3/4 stick as
the point at which pitch curves etc phase in/out....
Another thing to look out for is the pitch trim...
on APEX type sets the pitch trim works over the entire pitch
range. If you move the pitch trim it screws up the pitch
curve setups..... On better sets the pitch trim only works
around Half stick ( or wherever hovering throttle is set). It's
effect is phased out as the stick is moved from hover point.
So it has no effect on the full stick pitch. Similar to the
way the throttle trim only functions at idle....
The big point is get the thing trimmed out correctly
before you attempt to play with all these goodies.. They will
not compensate for a chopper that is badly set up... A
properly trimmed helicopter will virtually hover hands off.
bob
|
| 67.3 | 7 channel chopper radio advice? | ANT::BARBA | | Thu Oct 20 1988 15:17 | 15 |
| ?? FM 6-7CH HELICOPTER RADIO INFO ??
HELLO,
I AM LOOKING FOR PEOPLES PERSONAL OPINIONS ON WHAT BRAND NAME
RADIOS THEY WOULD RECOMEND OR STRONGLY NOT RECOMEND. I HAVE BEEN
OUT OF THE RC SCENE FOR ABOUT 5 YEARS, AND AM HAVING A HARD TIME
GETTING ANY QUALITY INFO FROM THE MAGAZINES. I AM CURRENTLY BUILDING
A BARON 28 HELO, AND I AM NOW FACED WITH TRYING TO MAKE MY DECISION ON
WHAT RADIO TO BUY.
I AM CURRENTLY LEANING TOWORDS A FUTABA FM 7CH FGHI W/4 SERVOS FOR
ABOUT $250.
ANY INFO WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!
|
| 67.4 | JR or Airtronics | K::FISHER | There's a whale in the groove! | Thu Oct 20 1988 16:13 | 41 |
| > I AM CURRENTLY LEANING TOWORDS A FUTABA FM 7CH FGHI W/4 SERVOS FOR
> ABOUT $250.
Well - I'll start off with what will probably be several controversial
replies.
The Futaba FGK series were good radios.
BUT - it's receiver will not meet 1991 specs.
I have seen lots of Helicopter pilots in the last few weeks
and they seem to be dominated by JR century 7 twin stick radios.
In point of fact the AMA has only recognized Airtronics receivers
as having passed independent lab tests for 1991 compatibility.
In fact ACE, JR, Airtronics, Aristocraft and Novak are the only companies
advertising 1991 receivers. I don't think ACE and Aristocraft make
Helo transmitters and Novak doesn't make transmitters (only Futaba
compatible AM receivers).
Sooooooo - As I see it you have a big fat choice of JR or Airtronics.
JR prices have been going up a lot lately. Based on my observations
I would lean towards Airtronics BUT...
Since everybody at the local field has JR I personally would take
advantage of that and stick with them - that way trainer cords work
and experts can help. A visit to your local field and talking with
the active flyers will help you make a decision.
I'm sure other radios are becoming 1991 compatible and others will no
doubt add to this note.
Conclusion = get what the others have if and only if they are available
in a 1991 version.
P.S. $250 is probably at least 50 short of any 1991 system.
Bye --+--
Kay R. Fisher |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================
|
| 67.5 | MY OPINION | SALEM::COLBY | KEN | Thu Oct 20 1988 17:18 | 22 |
|
I think Kay answered the question just the way I would. However,
there is a couple of things I would like to add. The Century VII
FM set currently sells for about $350. JR also has a Century VII
PCM set for about $380. I think that the extra $30 would be a
good investment due to better interference rejection (choppers
can generate lots of noise). It also has the added feature of
a fail safe system, but I am not sure what good that is on a
chopper, since pre-setting anything would be tough. Also,
these system prices are with 4 servos, so you would want to add
the cost of one additional servo.
I know I have helped several people set up their choppers, and I
feel much more comfortable doing this with a Century VII system,
since I have a better idea what I am doing, and what to expect.
________
/ __|__
=========[_____\>
/ __|___|__/ BREAK A BLADE,
Ken
|
| 67.16 | Someone, anyone? | LEDS::COHEN | There's *ALWAYS* free Cheese in a Mousetrap! | Mon Nov 19 1990 13:59 | 18 |
|
OK. I've recently joined the ranks of Rotary Winged Flyers.
I've got a JR Century VII.
I bought the Heli and the Radio used.
It all flies, and since I havn't crashed in a dozen or so 15 minute
hovers, I can only assume that either I'm wicked good, or the Heli's set
up reasonably correctly.
Can someone who owns a JR Century VII give me a concise explanation of
the various radio functions. The instruction manual is devoid of useful
information, and although the system seems set up OK, it really bothers
me that I don't have a decent understanding of what it's doing.
Randy
|
| 67.17 | | JETRGR::EATON | Dan Eaton St.Louis,MO,USA, 445-6522 | Mon Nov 19 1990 14:43 | 17 |
| Hi Randy,
Why don't you contact me offline and I'll go over the radio with you,
/ \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented / / \
Dragonfly / #
Pilot / #
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