Conference vmszoo::rc

    Hello out there,
    
    I'm pretty new to NOTES in general and RC_NOTE in particular, so
    if I'm repeating a previous query, don't hit me! (have you any idea
    how long it takes to read this note across the net?!?! - I do
    have a directory, but much good info seems hidden in the replies).
    
    I'm just getting back into RC flying after a lay-off of about 10 years.
    The last model I made (10 years ago) was covered (not by me) with a
    new-fangled, wonder material called Solarfilm. It was covered by a
    friend (with whom I have lost touch) as a demonstration of Solarfilms
    benefits (speed, weight, ease of repair etc). 
    
    I have just completed my latest model, a trainer and have started
    covering it with Solarfilm. My question: How on earth do you get a
    decent covering EVERYWHERE? I can tack and shrink on large areas ok,
    but as soon as I start on the "fiddlely bits" which require a large
    amount of iron heat direct, the finish becomes wrinkled and untidy.
    Also, how do you get a decent line between contrasting colours (eg the
    leading edge of a wing with different colours top and bottom)? 
    
    Finally, how much of a help are the special Solarfilm iron and heat
    gun? I've seen these, but given my current experiences with 'film,
    I'm reluctant to spend out if they aren't much help.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Keith
    
    P.S. I'm reading 288 (not finished yet) on covering; unless someone can
    help, I'll be back to nylon/dope and all the delays they mean given
    that I'm expecting to be repairing a lot... 

    I STRONGLY recommend the reading of Harry Higley's books on finishing.
    He has one that talks strictly about film coverings. I believe it
    is called "There are no Secrets".  I will look tonight to be sure...
    
    re tools - Certainly a number of people are able to use household
    irons and do "sufficient" jobs of covering airplanes.  But I would
    not trade in my trim iron and heat gun for anything...  Actually,
    I am ready to buy a second trim iron so that I do not have to change
    tips as I am working.
    
    Check out that book and if you have any questions, let us know!!
    
    Cheers,
    jeff
    

    Hi,
    
    I checked on this last night.  The book "There are No Secrets" is
    a general finishing book, talking about sprays and film.  
    
    The book they have just for film covering is "Tom's Techniques".
    Again, I strongly recommend reading and re-reading this book (just
    the other day I picked up how I am supposed to do wing-tips... 
    Tips were always my weakness...
    
    Cheers,
    jeff
    

    Re: .11, .13,
    
    Ok, now to the third question.  Film coverings _can_ be painted
    to varying degrees of success.  Critical is scuffing the area to
    be painted with fine steel wool or equivalent to provide some "tooth"
    for the paint to adhere to.  I've heard of K&B Super-poxy paint
    providing reasonable/acceptable results but couldn't comment much
    beyond that.  I _would_ offer that lacquer/dope-type paints probably
    would be the least satisfactory for this application - enamels,
    urethanes and epoxies probably being the best.  Be sure to check
    for fuel-proofness if the airplane will be exposed to glo-fuels.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Monocote Vs. UltraCote.  I like UltraCote better.  Although limited
    in color when compared to Monocote, it is easier to "mold" around
    curves without creases.  I have also used the Black Baron film,
    but found it very disagreable.  It is a very "soft" low temperature
    film, and it scuffed very easily during application, ruining the
    shiny finish, and when pieces were overlapped, the top piece always
    shrunk away from the overlap, leaving a scummy adhesive/color mix
    that got all over my iron.  Monocote is the highest temperature
    film of the three (UltraCote falls in between) and is difficult
    (compared to UltraCote) to mold around corners.  Monocote also "gasses"
    a lot, meaning that when you heat it with an iron, and it is laying
    on top of a balsa sheet or another piece of Monocote, the gas released
    forms bubbles under the covering, which can only be removed by piercing
    the covering with a pin.  UltraCote and Black Baron do not exhibit
    this tendancy.  I say use UltraCote, unless you specifically need
    a color that is not available, then go for Monocote.  Stay away
    from Black Baron.

    I agree with Randy (.15) although I'm not sure that Monokote is
    higher temp. than Ultracote.  I remembered it the other way around
    (off the top of my head - I could be wrong).  Either way, that won't
    be too important to you since you won't be covering foam wings.

    I also agree about Black Baron Film (BBF).  The yellow and red on
    the Electrostreak is BBF and the adhesive DOES ooze out from the
    seams and makes a mess on your iron.  I chose BBF knowing this
    "feature" in advance however because it is the lightest of the
    films.  Ultracote is the strongest.  Any transparent color is
    lighter than the same brand opaque color.  

    You should acquire a copy of the article in Model Aviation a few
    months ago.  It was a complete scientific study of tensile strength,
    adhesive temp, weight/square inch, etc.  (I'm "quoting" all of the
    above facts from memory of this article.)

    For glider wings, I think your best bet would be Ultracote due to
    it's strength.  However, I don't think it comes in transparent.  So
    transparent Monokote would be a good second choice.  Don't use Black
    Baron film - it is NOT very strong and you will end up with wings
    that flex like wet noodles.  (On the Electrostreak it's OK because
    the wings are short and very stiff before covering.)

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|            Happy Landings!
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |
                      |      /                           - Dan Miner
                      |_____/

>    the planes. While out flying I noticed that the coverings were bubbling
>    and expanding especially with open built up wings etc. Since you guys
>    in the US are used to this - what do you do to reduce this apart from
>    the obvious ? 
>
>    I have given the covering on my latest plane a lot of heat hoping that
>    this would help. After bringing it out in the sun it appears that it is
>    less prone to bubbling. So have the others just not applied enough heat
>    to the film or is it something that we have to live with ? 

Eric there are a few things you can do.

1.  Fly planes with old age wrinkles.  Laugh but time and time again
    I have seen modelers show up at the field with brand new planes
    that are wrinkle city.  On a modest sport plane it doesn't seem
    to effect the flying ability.  Most amazing is how others will
    compliment the builder on the fine Monokote job.  After all Monokote
    is very hard to apply and not have it turn our VERY shinny!

2.  Select a covering that is not prone to wrinkles such as super-coverite.

3.  Control temperature.  Sounds hard but you can actually do a pretty good
    job at it if you try.  My Drifter II wing was clear Monokote and I
    really didn't want it to wrinkle.  Sooooo - every time I went flying
    at lunch time at work I would bring in into the office.  On hot days
    the wing was either inside with air conditioning or it was on the
    glider flying - or it was home in air conditioning.  I still had to
    re-shrink it 2 or 3 times in a year and a half but not nearly as much
    as if I had left it in the car.  If you have a dark color that absorbs
    lots of heat (black or dark brown) cover it with a towel when at the
    flight line.  If your work shop is the garage then after you have
    covered your model - move it's place if residency to a closet in the
    house.

Regarding your last observation about some modelers having more bubbles.
Your right - they never really had their covering on very tight before
they shrunk it the first time.  I have seen some modelers put Monokote
on the fuselage by just ironing on the edges and not ever shrinking the
center or making it adhere to the balsa at all.  Looks terrible.

Plastic film is amazing stuff.  Under heat it becomes soft and will either
shrink or stretch.  Bubbles will cause it to stretch as they expand.
Balsarite applied on the Fuselage will help a little if you can afford
the extra weight.  Ultracote is better at not causing bubbles during
application.  Pin holes in the balsa will help.  On wings be sure to put
a hole in each rib and finally a hole at the root rib so that the entire
wing can breath.

Am I rambling yet?

Charley Watt is our resident MonoKote expert - Charley - want to
give your perspective here?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================
 

    
    re: covering wrinkles - I've found that reshrinking with high heat
    does the trick.  I think a lot of people (like myself) have a tendency
    to use only as much heat as is needed to shrink the covering and
    this sometimes doesn't stay shrunk under high temp conditions (such
    as the trunk of a car).  Charlie (not Charley!!) has found the same thing
    with his planes, although his covering jobs seem to be tighter than
    most.  Definitely try to make it as tight as possible when you do the
    covering job.
    
    re: Lyme disease - true that it is spread by the Deer tick which is
    tiny.  Also true that it can be treated with antibiotics.  A friend
    here at work got it last year (the first reported case in Westborough).
    He didn't recognize the symptoms until reading the Consumer Reports
    article about it.  Caught soon enough, it is easily treated.  If not
    it can cause all kinds of nasty things like Rheumatoid (sp?) arthritis
    and such.  One symptom is a circular rash with a dot in the middle
    that goes away in a day or two, followed by fatigue, muscle aches, etc.
    Our friend here was lucky that he noticed it.  Since being treated he's
    fine.  But be warned that it does exist in Westborough!
    
    Bill

re: .103 (Coverings)

>    re: covering wrinkles - I've found that reshrinking with high heat
>    does the trick.  I think a lot of people (like myself) have a tendency
>    to use only as much heat as is needed to shrink the covering and
>    this sometimes doesn't stay shrunk under high temp conditions (such
>    as the trunk of a car).  Charlie (not Charley!!) has found the same thing
>    with his planes, although his covering jobs seem to be tighter than
>    most.  Definitely try to make it as tight as possible when you do the
>    covering job.

    One recommendation about using the heat gun - be careful when heating
    covering with nothing underneath (such as between ribs, stick-built
    fuselages, etc.). If there is wood underneath the covering it conducts
    some of the heat away. I've heated those areas extensively with the
    heat gun with no damage. On the other hand, I've burned holes in
    covering that had nothing but air behind it - there's nothing conducting
    the heat away and it gets much hotter. You should also be careful if
    there is resin or other stuff on the wood under the covering, it can
    bubble if it gets too hot.

    Dave
        

        Re:           <<< Note 73.9 by K::FISHER "Stop and Smell the Balsa!" >>>

>    at lunch time at work I would bring in into the office.  On hot days
>    the wing was either inside with air conditioning or it was on the
>    glider flying - or it was home in air conditioning.  I still had to
>    re-shrink it 2 or 3 times in a year and a half but not nearly as much
>    as if I had left it in the car.  If you have a dark color that absorbs
        
                I had the same problem until I vented the wings properly.
        As the wing  heated  up  the  air  trapped  inside  would expand,
        ballooning the covering, then when it dropped it would be full of
        wrinkles.    Drilling  holes  in  the  ends  fixed  this  problem
        permanently.
        
                Re  .1:   Be aware that  painting  MonoKote  removes  the
        elasticity of the film and makes it prone to ripping when exposed
        to stress!
        
                      _ 
                     / |
           _----____/==|
         /__====------- 
             |-          
            /              
           /               
         Hang in there!      
                           
             Anker           

The other day I was changing the spoiler cord on my Sagitta Wings and
when I picked up the wing I was shocked to see so many wrinkles.

Looked like it was covered by a 7 year old (and it was his first attempt).

Well - I re-shrunk it OK but I was very disappointed that it wrinkled so bad.
It seemed confined to the forward sheeting and trailing edge areas.  That
is it only wrinkled where there wasn't open structure.  Perhaps my
balsa/Balsarite was breathing and creating bubbles.

Sooooo alto up to now I had a high opinion of MicaFilm - I have to 
give it a low score on its ability to not wrinkle with age.  Rats - up to
know I had it at the top of my list for open structure glider wings.  It is
a little hard to apply because it has no adhesive and won't stretch over
compound curves hardly at all but with work it looks real nice.  Then wait
one year and cry.  Wouldn't you know a few weeks ago I covered by beautiful
Hobie Hawks wings with Mica Film.  Oh well - maybe I'll take if off when it
starts giving me grief (if the plane lasts that long).

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

What I really want to do is to tack this note onto the recent
note (Dan Snow perhaps?)  blasting Black Baron Film.  But I
searched keywords and couldn't find it.  Al, feel free to move
this if it rings a bell.

I am completing The Last Great Rebuild Of The Six Million Dollar
Eaglet (hereafter known as TLGROTSMDE, TL GROT SMDE in
hexadecimal, Eaglet for short).  I bought a roll of Black Baron
Film at PEC last summer, and was looking forward to totally
debunking the recent uncomplementary note.  But, unfortunately,
it appears to be true.

When I read the note I figured that the author had used too much
heat.  Unlike Monokote, Coverite products are designed to use a
much lower heat, about 1.5-1.75 versus 2.0-2.5 on the Monokote
iron.  This, I thought, was causing the problems mentioned.  But
its not the case; the stuff indeed does separate from its
backing.  I applied the film to the cardboard tail surfaces, the
wing, and the ply fuse, and in all cases, the actual color and
adhesive separated from the clear film over any solid backing
(as opposed to open areas).  Its cheap, but its junk.

Let me add that I am still bullish on Micafilm, Super Coverrite,
and Balsarite.  These are all first class products.  I hope to
use Silkspun Coverrite in the near future and am expecting
nothing but the best results.

    re 73.13
    
    >so although up to now I had a high opinion of Micafilm-I have to
    give it a low score on its' ability to not wrinkle with age<
    
    Kay, this seems uncharacteristic of Micafilm. I have a nearly 5
    year old "Flinger" wing, l.e. sheeted , and open structure, similar
    to your Saggita, and I have never touched it with heat since the
    day it was finished. Still tighter than most of my much younger
    covering jobs. I do recall that I had to heat the devil out of the
    tips to cure the compound curve wrinkle problem. I was using a heat
    gun rather than iron so maybe the spill-over heat was benificial
    to the rest of the wing. Sometimes the balsa-rite will creep
    if the covering is adhered to a small, narrow area such as a rib
    edge, but if it's doing it on the sheeted area maybe "outgassing"
    is the explanation as you theorize. Try heating the sheeted area
    with one hand while wiping across with the other hand, using a pad
    of kleenex with some down pressure.
    
    I'm going to cover an upcoming old-timer project with Micafilm so
    will be on the alert for problems.
    
    I notice several references in this note to Solarfilm. It's still
    available from Hobby Shack under the name of Flight-kote.
    It's usually about $12-$13 for 3 rolls. It's a lower temp film than
    Monokote, and has no problems with color separation. Goes around
    curves better than Monokote and the adhesive does'nt outgas. (god,
    I love that word). On the minus side puncture resistance is slightly
    less and seam adhesion, as on trailing edges, needs periodic touch
    up. I use it on large fully sheeted wings and apply it with a heat
    gun while wiping down with a soft pad; see above.
    
    Also, if anyone is about to replace the gray teflon shoe on their
    Top-flight iron or its' equivalent, take a look at the Black Baron
    replacement shoe, the one with the black sparkly coating. This stuff
    is great, absolutely scratch free applications, something I could
    never achieve with the gray shoe.
    
    Terry
    

  Does anyone have any information on the covering material sold by
Balsa USA called Aero Span?  I am going to be placing an order with 
Balsa USA and if I can save shipping charges by getting the covering
now I might as well do it.  But I don't want to get it if it's garbage.
They also sell Solartex.  Any comments on this?

  One last one....In the January issue of RCM they gave a product review
for Coverites Presto.  It is a self adhering covering.  It will stick
to surfaces without being heated, but sticks much better after heating.
It does shrink like Monokote.  I know a lot of people in this file don't
have high opinions of Coverites coverings, but has anyone tried this stuff
yet?

  Jim

    RE:73.16 comments on Aero Span or Solartex.
    
    I'm not the greatest authority on covering fixed wings but I have
    used Aero Span on a couple of projects. The first time was on my
    slope soaring P-51 mustang. It came out ok considering it was the
    1st time I ever used a covering. Next came an Electra using Ultracoat.
    I liked the Ultracoat a lot better. Last summer I built a motor
    glider and covered it with Aero Span. Transparent red on the wings
    and metallic blue on the fuselage. Maybe its the experience level
    but I was quite pleased with the results. 
    
    When you place your order don't forget to ask for the free sample
    pack for the coverings. They have one for Aero Span and another
    for Solartex.
    
    Dan Eaton

     re .16
   

     I've used it too. I got a Balsa USA Stick 40 and it came with a
     roll of Areo Span. After comparing the Aero Span to some Solarfilm 
     I had, I would swear they are the same thing. The color even matched.

     General comments on Aero Span:

     Low temperature - lower than Monokote
     Good shrink and curve cover
     Not completely opaque, at least not the Cub yellow


Jim

    I am just starting to use monokote.  I covered the wing of my Eagle 2,
    and although it's far from perfect, it really looks good for a
    beginner.  Well, not being content to leave the wing a solid color, I
    decided to put an overlay design on the wing around the leading edge. 
    I had previously read about the potential for outgassing of the
    adhesive causing bubbles, but thought I could work through this if I
    was careful.  Well, I never knew the magnitude of the problem I was
    creating for myself.  It became painfully apparent as I got into
    bonding the overlay strip that it was going to bubble all over the
    place, and I couldn't seem to do anything to prevent it from happening. 
    It's turned my OK wing into an almost botch job.  Using a pin to open
    up air holes, I was able to flatten many of the bubbles, but there are
    so many of them it looks terrible.  Not only that, but in the process
    of constantly going back over the bubbled areas to flatten them out, I
    have ruined the finish and it looks scratched and worn.  This stuff may
    be a modern miracle product, but it sure ain't user-friendly!!
    
    What is the correct technique for bonding overlays on monokote?  Is
    there any way to prevent the terrible bubbling that occurs? Is there
    any way to get rid of the bubbles?
                                                                 
    Any help you can give to this frustrated buckaroo will be appreciated.
    
    -Joe 

    re .20
    
    Joe, what you describe has been experienced by virtually everyone
    starting out with monokote. If you don't have a heat gun, get one
    now. If you do have a heat gun, carefully heat the overlay strip
    and while peeling it off with the other hand. Go slow, find just
    the right amount of heat to allow it to lift cleanly. There's no
    way to salvage the job at this point, unless you can live with
    the bubbles and pinholes.
    
    Monokote trim sheets come in,I think, 4" x 36" strips and don't
    need heat to apply. Just press them on like a piece of tape. I wouldn't
    recommend them for this job, too tricky to use. 
    
    I don't know if an Eagle has a sheeted leading edge or whether it's
    an open structure on the full chord. If it is the former, then the
    normal technique is to use two separate pieces of monokote, and
    overlap them about 1/8" to 1/4" right at the trailing edge of the
    sheeted area. If it's an entirely open structure then I'd say forget
    about getting fancy at this stage. Concentrate on the basics until
    you learn to fly/repair/mantain at a higher level. 
    
    A good technique for apply monokote over large flat areas is to
    "wipe" it down with a pad of soft tissue held in one hand while
    hitting it with a heat gun in the other. This works best on solid
    sheeted surfaces. The biggest secret in working with monokote
    is learning when, where and how much to vary the heat. 
    Good luck.
    
    Terry
    

    Re .21
    
    Terry, does the stick-on monokote trim sheet require any heat after
    applying it?
    
    
    
    
    -Joe 

    
    RE: .21,
    Joe - my first suggestion would be to leave it alone, especially if
    it's good'n ugly!:-)  The more work you put into your trainer, and the
    better it looks, the worse you'll feel when you first ding it up.  But,
    I understand how you feel about your creation.  So if you just can't
    live with the bubbles, I'd recommend you remove the trim with heat (as
    described in .-1).  To reapply monocote trim I believe you can use a liquid
    called "bubble-free trim", which activates the adhesive without heat.
    Ultracote is better for trim because you can activate the adhesive with
    low heat and it doesn't outgas as much.  "Expert" monocoters cut out
    the material under the trim and only leave a 1/8" or so overlap so
    there isn't an outgassing problem.
    
    Bill

    
     Joe, another inexpensive way is to head down to a local automotive
    shop and try some of their pin stripping. It usually comes in swathes
    if 1/4 inch to 5 inches. This in a variety of colors should pretty up
    just about anythang. I've used this idea for about three odd years on 
    1 plane and it sticks on jest perfeckt.
    -Later gators,
    Z-Man

    re .22
    
    Joe, trim monokote goes on without heat. With care, it can be rubbed
    down center to outside edge, without bubbles. Be careflu! It sticks
    like crazy and it's easy to pull things loose underneath if you
    have to reposition it. .23 brings up a point I had forgotten.
    If you lubricate the surface to which the trim is applied, you can
    slide it around until you get it just right, the squeegee out the
    lubricant. I use Windex. It's easy to wipe off, cleans the suface,
    evaporates well, and doesn't bother the adhesive on the trim sheet.
    Some people like to use soapy water as the lubricant.
    
    Terry
    

    This past weekend I used one of those cloth iron covers on the iron
    while attaching monokote to the fuse sides.  I think it produces a much
    better job than using the raw iron.  For one thing, there was much less
    outgassing, therefore fewer bubbles to contend with.  Those bubbles
    that did form were easier to get out.  The other benefit of this simple
    tool is that it left the finish perfectly smooth with no sctatches or
    scuff marks.  I LIKE it!  I've yet to try it while applying overlays,
    but I suspect it will be just as good.
    
    Anyone else had any experience with a cloth iron cover?
    
    -Joe

    re .26
    
    I've tried the cloth iron cover. It worked okay while it lasted
    but wore through at the tip very quickly. 
    
    The reason you had less outgassing, is that the cover reduced the
    heat slightly as felt at the surface of the monokote. If you're
    having problems with bubbles and outgassing, try lower your
    iron temp. a little. I get the feeling you maybe running a little
    too hot, especially on sheeted surfaces.
    
    On sheeted fuselages, I have good results by just laying the iron
    on the surface momentarily,without moving it, then pressing and
    wiping on the film with a pad of tissue. Usually can do a complete
    side in a minute or two.
    
    Terry
    

I found that I had to boost my temp a little to get a good seal with a cover on. 
I found a limitless source of covers that can be washed and/or tossed regularly,
my kids orphaned (unmatched) socks! Slip right over the iron and secure with a 
twist tie, tie wrap or rubber band. No more scatches (unless you really try)

I use a cover on the iron too. I made one from an old cotton T shirt and, just
like the commercial cover, it wears out at the tip. With the cover on, you do
have to increase the heat a bit to get the same effect. I  use it primarily for
putting down covering on sheeted areas. Then I take off the cover and crank up
the heat to seal the edges. The last thing I do is shrink the covering over
open areas with a heat gun.

Here's how you can overlap the covering without getting bubbles: take your
sheet of Monocoat, wad it up into a ball, throw it into the wastebasket, and
go out and buy a roll of Ultracoat.

Dave

    I tried Oracover for the first time. I chose it because it is available
    in flourescent yellow, and I wanted a max. visibility color.
    It reminds me of self-stick shelf paper, although of course it isn't
    self stick. That is, it's rather stiff and wants to curl up.
    On a sheeted surface it goes on at ~ 250 F, measured with a Coverite
    thermometer, and doesn't bubble. I was ironing onto birch veneer
    so was able to use quite a bit of pressure without fear of denting
    the wood.
    I would rate it slightly easier to use than Monokote.
    One interesting side effect of the flourescent colors, is that your
    eye color receptors get fatigued, or something, after a work session.
    Immediately after finishing the covering job I was rummaging through
    my supply of film and couldn't figure out why I had so many rolls
    of beige/tan which I didn't remember buying. Ah, but wait. They
    were simply rolls of normal yellow, which looked washed out compared
    to the flourescent yellow.
    
    Terry
    

I entered an earlier note on Oracover, and would like to follow
up.  The covering has stood up to the beating I've given it on
the PT40, and it cleans up easily after a flying session.
However, it has separated from the solid balsa surface on the
fuse, requiring me to go in and re-shrink the bubbles.  I'd
recommend putting a coat of balsarite down before applying the
Oracover.

I'll admit though, that I don't like films; I feel they're
cheating.  As a result, I may have expressed some of my contempt
for the medium with a bad job of surface prep/application when
laying the stuff down in the first place.

Has anyone here used both Oracover and Ultracoat? I'm not surprised that 
Oracover is better than Monokote, but how does it compare with Ultracoat?

    I had an interesting thing happen this weekend. I found that the new
    roll of monocoat that I bought on friday, shrank significantly less
    than expected. I've got significant wrinkles all over and (if I didn't
    want to fly so bad this weekend) I'll have to spend a lot of time
    peeling it up and restretching it. I've used monocoat for a long time
    and this is the first time I've seen it. Dave Walter said he saw it a
    couple of times in the past. Anybody else?

    17 years ago I had a roll of transparent blue Monokote do exactly
    the same thing. It seemed as though it may have been a very old
    roll and the backing was lifted from the film in places. Since then,
    everthing ok but I feel that the transparent colors are more prone
    to low shrinkage.
    
    Terry

    Who covers a sailplane in transparent blue? ;^) ;^) Should I use white
    as my second color? The stealth glider ;^)
    
    Yes, it was transparent but yellow, not blue. I've been using a lot of
    transparent lately and the orange has been fine as well as the yellow I
    used last fall. This roll was horrible. The backing was well attached
    to the covering but came off easily and tacked down quite well. I was
    in a rush to get out and try the new wing before the sun set so I
    rushed it and didn't stretch it as much as I could have while putting
    it on. When it didn't shrink, it looked like h*ll. (but it flew well
    ;^) With the sticks on the slope we fly at, I'll end up replacing the
    underside in the long term anyway.

    I've found that different colors of monkeykote seem to respond
    differently.  The one I've had the most trouble with is the dark blue. 
    It seems to require a higher temp to shrink it.  It may be my
    imagination of just variation in the materials.  Also, it has a grain
    to it.  It shrinks more in one direction than the other.  I think it
    tends to shrink more width wise than length wise.  (Don't hold me to
    this as it is purely from gut feel than scientific testing.)
    
    Charlie
    

    Actually Jim, trans. blue is highly visible when flown in the often
    murky skies of So. Cal., which is where I was when I used that color,
    and here in N.M. I find white to be the best all-around for visibility.
    I usually combine it with dark red or yellow, for those times when
    I fly in front of a cloud.
    
    At contests you can always tell a flier from S. Cal. by the color
    of his plane: Black or dark blue.
    
    Terry

    To bad Jim,
    
    Sounds like the film may have schrunk before you applied it. I 
    have only used Black Baron films in the past. They work nice 
    , and I have not had any problems like yours. ( but a guy who
    has only build three planes is pretty inexperienced ) 
    
    BTW hows the rug rat's Kyosho holdin up? Thought Id' be in Mass.
    for four weeks but got the rug pulled.
    
    Regards,
    
    Bob ( not in Philly anymore)

    I'm not sure how they get the plastic set up so that it shrinks with
    heat but the roll was nice and smooth and attached to the backing when
    I opened it. I've written it off to experience and I'll probably send a
    piece to Top Flight with a note to let them know that it happened (you
    never know what kind of response it might bring)
    
    Re: the Shadow
    
    The car's run great. He got a couple of battery packs during the
    holidays and we had to replace the brushes on the SpeedWorks motor and
    that seems to have fixed the motor problems. The speed control is worn
    and doesn't always make good contact so that will be next. He got a
    different body for it and new knobby tires (since the originals became
    slicks ;^) and it's worked quite well. He drove it 4wd for a while and
    ended up going back to 2wd. I wanted him to take out the rear links and
    try it FWD but he didn't. I thought it might have some interesting
    cornering in FWD mode. Good to hear that you're up to 3 planes. You'll
    have to send me some Email about how the learning curve has been.
    
    Jim

    Alton Ryder was out sick yesterday, and since he has a terminal
    at home he chose to bedevil me all day about perceived errors in note
    .41. ;^)  ;^).
    His prodding did uncover a 2nd grade level arithmetic error on my
    part, sooo heres a corrected version of the of the weight table.
    Closer to Al's figures but still not exactly the same.
    
    Solarfilm----6 sq.in.= .3 grams./ 1 sq. ft.= 7.2 gms
    
    Micafilm-----    "   =  .2 grams./     "   = 4.8 gms
    
    Monokote-----    "   =  .25 grams/     "   = 6.0 gms (these figures
    are suspect, I don't think Monokote is lighter then Solarfilm.)
    
    Oracover-----    "       .40 grams/    "    =9.6 gms
    
    
    Also at Als' prodding, I attempted to discover the typical weight
    of a coating of Balsarite, and how this would affect the total weight
    when using Micafilm.
    
    Applying an average coating (your results may differ) to a 1" X
    6" balsa piece:
    
    Bare weight of balsa= .8 gm
    
    Weight of balsa one minute after applying one coat of Balsarite=
    1.35 gm.
    
    Weight of balsa one hour after applying Balsarite= 1.15 gm.
    
    The weight remained at 1.15 gm after 10 hours, so we might conclude
    that nearly all solvent evaporation occurs in the first hour after
    application. 
    
    A brand new can of Balsarite will be slightly thinner than the old
    can I used, and could be brushed on thinner.
    
    Wishing Al a speedy recovery,
    
    Terry

    Another beginner trying to find a film that will solve all his
    problems. I've used Oracover and Monokote. The Oracover goes on great
    and stays on good. The Monokote I hated the way it went on and it
    wouldn't stay on. After reading the previous notes and some others
    it seems others agree with my view on Oracover. But according to
    "weight's note" you pay for it in weight. It seem as many users
    like Ultracote (maybe more). But can anyone guess where it would
    weigh in? Does anything go on like Oracover and weigh a lot less?

    On sheeted surfaces, Solarfilm is about as easy to use as Oracover
    and is ~ 1/2 the weight. It is sold by Hobby Shack as Flite-Kote,
    3 rolls/$13. 
    On open structures Monokote is still hard to beat for ease of use
    although Micafilm is stronger.
    If you're having trouble with Monokote sticking well, you may have
    some other problem, wrong temp. etc.
    
    I'd SWAG that Ultracote is in the Monokote weight range. If Goldberg
    ever sends me my free sample, I'll weigh it.
    
    Terry

    Don't hold your breath waiting for the 'FREE' Ultracote.  I think they
    got 10X the number of responses that they said they'd honor.  It is
    good stuff but the colors aren't that good and the color match from
    roll to roll is TERRIBLE.
    
    Charlie
    

    So what does everyone think of the new Monokote pearl colors ?
    
    The first ones available here, pearl red and blue, were okay but
    nothing spectacular.
    Now the others are available and several are really neat. 
    Pearl white is a dramatic change from just plain white. No more
    flying refrigerators ! It has proven so popular already that my
    hobby shop says it is semi-rationed until they ramp up production.
    
    Pearl Teal looks green to me, but is so striking that this is the
    first green of any sort that will grace one of my planes.
    
    Pearl Copper is a vibrant contrast to the teal and white, completely
    different than the mundane plain copper that has been around awhile.
    
    Also according to my dealer, since Great Planes took over the
    distribution of Monokote some middlemen have been eliminated and
    the wholesale price has dropped. He's cut his prices $1.50 per roll
    on his new sxtock. Your results may vary.
    
    I walked out with two rolls of pearl white and a roll each of pearl
    teal and copper, to use on the Legend.
    
    Terry

	  The one FINAL thing that remained for me to do prior to
	  covering, was to drill a hole through 4" of rudder, for
	  the antenna. It was the ole brass tube routine! What a
	  drag. I _was_ surprised to see the exit hole was off
	  centre by just 1/16"!!

	  I then final sanded the fuse/wing/control surfaces with
	  220 grit paper, used a tack cloth to pick up the
	  sawdust, and applied Nitrate dope. The strong odour
	  brought back Rip Van Winkle memories of the dope and
	  paper days I lived in India! Then finish sanded with 400
	  grit paper, and again used a tack cloth, per covering
	  guru John Smith's recommendation. Plane ready to cover
	  at t=240 hours.

	  I tried a multicolour scheme this time - a series of
	  "L"s, with one limb of the "L" parallel to the l.e., and
	  one parallel to the wing tip. 4 colours in all Yellow,
	  Orange, Red and Blue. Looks like the Great Planes
	  Spectrum.

	  Much of the plane is Yellow. People tie yellow ribbons
	  around trees for the troops to come home. I fly a yellow
	  plane waiting for my wife to join me.

	  I cut out the pattern templates from mat board. I joined
	  two pieces (of each colour) of monocote back to back
	  (with the backin still on) with tape, and cut out the
	  patterns for both the left and right half-wings at the
	  same time. The cutting surface was a glass sheet from
	  a broken framed poster, per the Smith School of
	  covering's requirements. Yes, it makes a GRRRREAT
	  difference as to how accurately you can cut the film! I
	  would'a sworn cardboard or old newspaper would have been
	  just as good, but I am a convert now!

	  My first pattern was a waste, as I forgot to leave some
	  excess margin for joining! I smoothed all the patterns
	  on the glass sheet, and tacked them together with a trim
	  iron. Then got this desire to include black pin stripes.
	  Cut those too out from monkey-cote,and tacked them on.
	  The curves were kinda tedious, and I don't think I know
	  the 'right' way to do it 'easily'.

	  Got my 4 colour (5, including the trim) composite off
	  the sheet, and covered the wings. 8 hours to do the left
	  wing, including pattern cutting time. The right took
	  just 4, since the patterns were already available.

	  The nitro dope as a grain filler is simply awesome!
	  Monokote irons on smooth, and with minimum bubbles. Just
	  make sure you don't want to remove the covering - the
	  covering sticks soo good, that it rips out the wood by
	  the grain!

	  I had serious problems doing the compound curve around
	  the front 1/3rd of the wing tips, and finally broke
	  down, and cut out separate pieces of film for it.

	  ajai 
	  Mon Jul 22 12:44:09 1991

	  Yes, I did remember to neutralise my aileron servos, and
	  attach the servo wheels + pushrods PLUS THE SCREWS THAT
	  HOLD THE SERVO WHEELS!

	  I can't believe I got just one half of the stab done
	  last night!

	  On second thoughts, the 6 hrs for 1/2 stab vs. 8 hrs for
	  1/2 wing, including cutting the templates and the
	  monkeycote for both halves in each case, is about right.
	  Besides the unfamiliar multicolour scheme slowing me
	  down, I am using a new film when I have been used to
	  Black Baron's before (Yuck). Monokote forever!!

	  At least, it confirms that most of the work is in
	  dealing with the 4 colour scheme, as opposed to the area
	  being covered.

	  I am learning to 'stretch' the film with a hot iron, and
	  was quite pleased with how the rounded corners of the
	  stab came out. However, I have yet to get those little
	  strips you put in at the junction of the stab (or fin)
	  and fuse,to go around the l.e. wrinkle free. I probably
	  should use a hotter iron for the stretch, besides having
	  a longer strip length to work with.

	  The iron 'sock' from Top flite that I am using, is
	  burning slowly and turning brown. I guess I should
	  change these things frequently as it tends to pick up
	  the film adhesive + coloring. I'll try using an old
	  knitted vest for a sock this time...

	  All in all, I am having a lot of fun. With a lunch
	  invite on Sunday, the odds of finishing ze WOT4 this
	  wkend are stacked against me.

	  ajai
	  Fri Jul 26 13:06:43 1991

    Last March Terry Tombaugh measured the weights of some covering films,
    reported the results in notes 73.41, and corrected the results in
    73.44.  When I covered the Chup I weighed the Oracover I was using. 
    Terry's measurements were on small samples (1/24th sq ft) with total
    weights not much more than the sensitivity limit of his scale (factors
    of two to 14).  I had the benefit of his experience when I made my
    measurements with a similar scale; I used samples of about 2 square
    feet or more, samples that were being used to cover my Chup wings.
    Different samples yielded results closer than 1%, so any errors in my
    data would be in scale calibration, not procedure.  This note reports
    my data together with the weight data from the February 1988 Model
    Aviation study by Lee Murray.  
    
    Weights are given below in ounces per thousand square inches.

                                      Murray              Ryder
    Monokote, white                    1.8      
    Monokote, opaque yellow            1.7
    Monokote, transparent orange       1.3
    UltraCote, white                   2.3
    Black Baron, white                 1.3
    Micafilm                           0.8           
    Supercoat, white                   1.7
    Supercoat, opaque red              1.2
    Supercoat, opaque yellow           1.1
    Supercoat, transparent red         1.0
    Indy RC film, opaque orange        1.0
    Solarfilm, opaque red              1.2       
    Oracover, fluorescent red/orange                       2.0 
    Oracover, white                                        1.7
    
    Note that white Oracover is no heavier than white MonoKote.

    How important is all this?  Well, it does matter.  I measured the 
    impact on the Chup of using Oracover fluorescent orange everywhere but
    on the undersides of the wings and elevator where I used white.

                                 ready to cover  covered   film
                                 --------------  -------   ----
    Rudder                             0.166     0.229     0.063
    Elevator pair (without rods)       0.603     0.808     0.205
    Fuselage (with servos)             4.72      5.11      0.39
    Wing (6.31 before reinforcement)   6.49      8.30      1.81
    Hatch                                        0.301     0.04 est.
                                       -----     -----     -----
                                                14.75      2.51 = 17%
    Flying weight (the real world)              19.23             13%

    If I had used the lightweight Black Baron instead, the total weight of
    the covering would have been about 0.8 ounces less --- 9% of the flying
    weight, not 13%.  If I had used Micafilm over Balsarite, the weight
    would have been about 0.7 ounces more.

Al, your last sentence threw me...you mean that with Balsarite
the 0.8 oz Micafilm is heavier than a film covering?  That ain't
the way its supposed to work, did you make a mistake there?

    
    Well that put my confidence back into using oracover. Now if they
    would only come out with transparent oracover.
    

re Note 73.62   
>>  with Balsarite the 0.8 oz Micafilm is heavier than a film covering?  

    Yup.  By measurement and by [my crude] theory.

    Terry Tombaugh had run some weight measurements on Balsarite also. 
    There are some questions about the accuracy of the data (small sample,
    old Balsarite, other data sometimes high by 50% over Murray), but
    nonetheless, it **is a piece of data**, so I used it for the numbers in
    that last sentence.  Even if the data were to be high by 100% (which I
    doubt), it would still negate the weight advantage of Micafilm when it
    is sheeting and not open sticks being covered.  The Chuperosa has little
    open work; most of it is sheeting.

    As for the theory, consider this argument:

    Over sheeting you need the same square inches of adhesive that you need
    in film.  So it is basically a question of who can get the minimum
    thickness --- the modeler with a liquid or the film manufacturer?  The
    manufacturer is applying the adhesive to a non-absorbent plastic sheet;
    the modeler is applying it to a thirsty wood.  The best the modeler
    could do would be to thicken the liquid and apply it as a spray of tiny
    beads, using heat and not the capillary effect to bond to the wood. Most 
    modelers probably brush it on from the can.    With this reasoning, I
    concluded that Terry's measurement was probably close enough to make my
    point.       There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    When I mentioned this to Terry, he expressed surprise that anyone would
    consider using Micafilm over sheeting, but I have heard of other people
    doing it.

    Alton who still faces the weight advantage of a material (Black Baron)
                    that he stocks and often uses but doesn't like

    I agree with all of Al's points. My weight #'s suffer from small
    sample size error, but I was looking mainly for relative differences.
    
    Micafilm is intended for open structures. There is simply no advantage
    in using it on sheeted surfaces unless the exact color shade, or
    something, turns you on.
    
    Al also wanted me to enter something on Solarfilm. I wanted to wait
    until I had exact relative temperature #'s to enter, but will be
    too busy shortly, so will enter what I can, now.
    
    Solarfilm is mfg. in the U.K and has been around for about as long
    as Monokote. In the 70's it was the major alternative to Monokote.
    Today it is still available from Hobby Shack who sell it under
    the name Flite-Kote, 3 rolls for $13, opaque, slightly higher for
    transparents. Color selection is considerably more limited than
    Monokote.
    
    The following comparisons are with Monokote only. To compare with
    any other brand, you must skew the data points in your mind; not
    difficult since most minds in this conference are already skewed.
    
    Application temperature: Lower (Oracover temp. is between the two)
    
    Puncture resistance/tensile strength: Less. If your open structure
    needs the covering for additional strength, Solarfilm is not the
    best choice. Irrelevant on sheeted surfaces.
    
    Ease of application: equal on open structure.
                         Superior on sheeted sufaces; the best film
    I've used, in that mode. All bubbles can be ironed out including
    the "stuck together ridge" type.
    
    Fade/weathering: equal.
    
    Adhesive strength: equal on most surfaces, slightly less if seam
    is at the t.e. of wing. >1/8" overlap solves this.
    Adhesive will creep out from under the edge and get on your iron.
    This is my biggest complaint.
    
    Summary: main advantages are lower cost, ease of use, consistent quality/
    results.
    
    Terry

	  I staggered into bed at 5:30 AM this morning, after a 7
	  hour covering session! The night before, it was 4 AM,
	  and 3AM the couple nights before that. Gee, getting to
	  bed at 1AM would be early, at this rate, or am I trying
	  to get the biorhythms in tune with Indian time, given
	  the trip to see the wife end of this month?

	  Here is a summary of the covering activity, and the time
	  it took. 2 letter abbreviation used to indicate day-of-wk.

 
      PART     LEFT    RIGHT    TOTAL    REMARKS
               SIDE    SIDE     TIME 
               (Hrs)   (Hrs)    (Hrs)  

      Wing       8       4       12       Left includes templates and
                                          cutting monocote for both sides.

      Stab       6       4 Fr    10 /Fr   Left includes templates and
                                          cutting monocote for both sides.
 
      Fin        3       2        5 Sa    Left includes templates and
                                          cutting monocote for both sides.

      Ailerons  1.5     2.5       4 Sa    Incl. 1 Hr cleaning with thinner.

      Elevator   2 Sa   2 Mo      4 Sa/Mo

      Rudder     1.5    1.5       3 Mo

      Fuselage                    8 Tu    Basic one colour +
                                  7 We    trim scheme + thaw and refreeze
                                          - incl retapping 
                               -------
                                  53


	  258 (old) + 4 (Fri) + 11 (Sat) + 5 (Mon) + 8
	  (Tue) + 7 (Wed) = 258 + 35 = 293 Hrs.


	  I have got to be an expert at tying an old hanky as an
	  iron sock. I also discovered that the covering glue
	  stains can be removed with a Qtip dipped in lacquer
	  thinner. Needs a bit of rubbing but works great!!

	  I final-sealed the trim down using a hot iron, followed
	  by a wet ball of kleenex per John Smith's reco. I don't
	  know why gradual air cooling of the film glue is not
	  preferred to 'instant' water cooling. Perhaps the glue
	  bonds better? If so, why? Anyhoo, I don' argue with the
	  mans knowledge gained from experience.

	  The black monocote window "glass" came out all wrinkled,
	  so I lost time removing it, and redoing it right a
	  second time. The Nitro dope filler makes the flim stick
	  like sh*t! 

	  I didn't like the plain look of the fuse, and wanted to
	  put some trim on it. I tried to make a 3 colour stripe,
	  that begins at a point at the nose, widens out to a
	  band, and then tapers back to a point at the stab.
	  Despite making a cardboard template, it came out lousy -
	  and I 'assembled' this on the glass sheet, not the fuse
	  - so I discarded it.

	  Finally, I settled for 3 separate trim coloured 'darts'
	  that are made of straight edges, and easy to cut
	  accurately. 

	  Oh! Yes, and before I forget, I did put in 2 layers of
	  film under the fuse, where the l/g bolts on. I also
	  retapped all the holes as fuelproofer/dope had got into
	  them! (while i was twisting the head of the screw by
	  1/2 a turn, the shaft was stationary, so I knew
	  something was WRONG!)

	  The 4+1 colour scheme has certainly been a challenge. I
	  am wide awake as I work into the wee hours of the
	  morning, powered by adrenalin. But I am zonked out
	  for part of the day :-)

	  Next, to glue in the control surfaces, and install the
	  radio/engine. I got to help a colleague move this
	  evening, but I should be done tomorrow, so the WOT4
	  should take to the air this wkend.

	  Inshallah!

	  ajai
	  Thu Aug 1 16:00:22 1991

    TerryT asked me to comment on Oracover over balsa with respect to
    bubbling.  His own experience with Oracover over obechi has been 
    "continual bubbling problems".  I do experience bubblying, but no
    problems, a subjective word; most of my wings are patched-up,
    multi-colored, multi-film messes; the Chuperosa has the nicest wing I
    have ever owned.   My own comments must be taken in the context of my
    limited total experience in covering.

    The stuff does bubble, but my own data is inconclusive regarding the
    cause.  When I covered the Chuperosa wing, it was a hot day with a
    soaking relative humidity, so I assume that the moisture in the
    air/wood/foam was trapped inside forever by the plastic.  However,
    TerryT's experience would almost certainly be at a lower humidity.

    Bubbling during application:  Minimal.  When it [sometimes] stays up
    during the shrink stage, it can be immediately re-attached with a wipe
    of the hand (the old "hot finger" technique) or a rag.

    Bubbling later in the heat and sun:  Somewhat,  persistent,  localized. 
    I carry the wing to work (almost every day) in the cab of the truck, a
    hot environment lately.  Some bubbles keep forming, but they are
    mostly, I believe, in the same places --- time after time.  Most of the
    wing doesn't bubble.  The bubbles are rare in the [white] undercamber. 
    They are span-wise on the [fluorescent orange] top near the trailing
    edge with some smaller ones near the leading edge.  I believe the
    span-wise shape is significant; the bubbles under Black Baron are
    amorphous, not span-wise streaks.  Most of the bubbles are where the
    orange is about to go over the edge of the up-from-below edge of the
    white, so the cause might be trapped air.  The bubbles in mid-wing
    might be related to the naturally inhomogeneous grain of the balsa
    sheeting, perhaps resin pores or such; there are no bubbles at the
    joints in the sheeting.  The left wing bubbles much more than the
    right; in addition to the significant bubbles mentioned, there are a
    zillion tiny bubbles in the overlap at the left poly break but zero at
    the right. I don't think the asymmetry is related to transportation
    positioning, so it might be my application technique.  This was my
    first use of Oracover on a wing.  I might be over-heating the adhesive,
    but in the one place where I believe I softened the underlying foam (a
    slight flat spot in the first panel covered), there have been no
    bubbles.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Time to run some experiments.  I'll pin-prick some of the bubbles,
    mark them, reattach, and see if they reappear.  Once I know more about
    the bubbling, I'll write a full review on Oracover.  I like the stuff.

    Alton, the perpetual beginner

    The Chup wing doesn't need any extra strength from the covering,
    so ironing it down over the full surface is redundant, although
    I'd be interested to hear how this works with Micafilm. I've
    had poor results trying the same thing with Monokote; bubbles,ripples,
    etc.

    My Chups' Solarfilm covering is holding up well after many nose
    plants. I used Monokote only over the open rear fuse. structure
    for extra rigidity.
    
    Terry                
    

    Terry,
    
    	When I first started using Monocote I was taught to iron down all
    four edges and then shrink the center section until tight.  I
    remembered this when covering the LA-1 and also noted that most of
    my efforts were on open structure wings.  I'd been havin a problem with
    sheeted surfaces, primarily wings having bubbles and the like.  SO,
    when I covered the LA-1 wing I changed my covering process a little.
    I marked an area on the covering that overlapped the wing tip and when
    I ironed down the edges I omitted ironing down the marked area. 
    Understand that I left a few inches of covering overlapping the wing
    tip.  I then proceeded to iron down the covering with my monocote iron
    with a cloth protection the covering. This was done starting at the
    center section of the wing and working towards the wing tip.  When I
    got to the tip I sealed this edge and then cut off the excess.  This
    has seemed to work out great with only a coouple of bubbles that needed
    to be pearced and re-ironed.
    
    
    Tom

    I flew with Terry Sweeney last evening, and I was in error regarding
    just where he had used Micafilm.  His old Chuperosa wing is covered
    with conventionally attached Black Baron, not unattached Micafilm.  
    The fuselage and tail surfaces are in Micafilm with Balsarite at the
    four corners of the fuselage, the edges of the empennage, and on the
    fuselage where his fingers hold the plane for launching.

    Sorry for the mis-information.

    Alton

    
    
         I picked up a roll of Ultracoat to give it a try. I have heard so
    much good stuff about it that I am anxious to give it a try. I really
    like the deep Yellow/Orange color compares to the pale yellow color of
    Monokote. I am going to use it on my current Gremlin project
    
         My question is, has anyone had any experience using monokote as
    trim on top of Ultracoat? I seem to remember having difficulty in
    getting the Monokote to adhere to the Ultracoat when I did modifications on
    the Ultracoat covered Panic that I purchased from Dan Snow.
         My guess is that it may be as easy as scuffing up the ultracoat to
    get a better surface for the adhesive to adhere to, but I would be
    interested in others comments.
         
                                                        Thanks,
                                                      
                                                           Dan

    The guy in Sturbridge that I've been flying gliders with showed me some
    interesting stuff. I just called him and he couldn't remember the
    manufacturer but the name is "No Heat Trim Solvent" and it's in the
    back of the full size Tower catalog. This stuff will activate the
    monocoat adhesive without heat and might work in this case. He's been
    using it to patch holes at the field and it works great. Might want to
    check the effect on a scrap piece of foam before using it. It can be
    ironed over after use.

    
    Jim,
    
     I am not as concerned with heat, as with adhesion on the smooth
    Ultracoat surface. But thanks anyway.
    
                                                              Dan

    I heard rumor that windex does the same job, wet area to be overlayed -
    place overlay on and blot out the excess widex. Sorry , no
    experience on ultra/mono combination.
    
    Regards , 
    Bob in Bluebell

    My Prophet glider has orange Ultracoat on the bottom of the wings and
    white Monocote on the top. I think the Ultracoat overlaps on top of the
    Monocote. In any case, I've had no adhesion problems. I use high heat
    to seal the edges regardless of the type of covering used.
    
    Dave
    

    Ultracote sticks GREAT.  I've used it for trim over itself and over
    Monocote many times.  One thing I like about Ultracote is that you
    don't have to use high heat to make it stick.  That allows you to put
    on trim pieces without having them shrink and distort.  I put them on
    with an iron with a sock on it, working from the center out for larger
    pieces.
    
    Charlie
    

    
    
        Sounds like Ultracoat goes over MonoKote ok, so that means I should
    put the trim on first, and then add the base color? :). I am still
    wondering if the Monokote works ok OVER the Ultracoat.. I guess I will
    find out this weekend. On Monday, I will report back the answer to my own
    question
    
                                                          Dan
                                                  

    
    As said in previous notes. Monocote uses a higher heat setting than
    does Ultracote.  So I can see Ultracote going over monocote but not
    monocote going over ultracote.
    
    On the La-1 I successfully used monocote over monocote.
    
    
    Tom

    I try not to use monocote for trim because I've had bubble problems.  I
    have not tried the Windex trick though.  Let us know how you make out,
    Dan.
    
    Charlie
    

    The Windex trick works when applying trim Monokote, or any other
    press-to-stick trim over the base covering. It allows you to slide
    the trim around, then squeegee out the Windex when it is properly
    located.
    If trying this with heat-to-stick covering, the top layer will slide
    around okay, but after squeegeeing out the Windex and applying the
    iron/heat, the bubbling problem will not be solved.
    
    Terry

    I have used MonoKote (red) over Ultracote (white).  It works just
    fine.  I tried the windex trick and it didn't work at all (as
    someone mentioned 1 or 2 replys back).  Bubbles are a problem w/
    MonoKote.  I figure, since it's not a scale ship, who cares?

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Castor Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

    If you keep the trim small, you can iron it on with out bubbles.
    Maybe instead of small, I should say narrow. Something the covering
    iron can completely cover. I've used monocote over monocote several
    times with no problem. Basically all that happens is if the trim is
    narrow enough to be covered by the iron, you get an area an iron
    width ironed on nice and smooth, then lay the iron down on the trim
    and run it out the sides sealing and squeeging the air out at the
    same time.

    Note 73.64 discussed the impact of using Balsarite on a mostly sheeted
    plane, my Chuperosa.  I just found a brief note in the literature of
    the impact on a built-up structure.  He found that on a large glider 
    wing the savings was less than 1.5% of the total weight of the wing.

    From RCSD 5/90 page 9 note edited by Derek Lucas of Leicester, England,

    "... using Litespan instead of Solafilm.  The wing followed normal
    construction principles ... [leading edge sheeting, built-up trailing
    edge, cap strips]"

    He gives material weights that I converted to the following units:

    	Litespan	0.65 oz/k sq in

    	Solafilm	1.4		( 1.2 in the data from Lee Murray )

    	Solatex		1.9

    For a wing of 750 sq inches, 1500 total top and bottom, he calculates
    that "a saving of 31.95 grams could be made by using Litespan, but ...
    you do not get something for nothing."  [TANSTAFFEL]

    "Conclusions:

    	Wing, bare					240 g

    	Wing, bare plus Balsaloc adhesive		260 g

    	Wing, covered with Litespan			295 g

    	Wing covered with Solafilm would [have been]	299.7 g

    ..... I have saved 4.7 grammes.  Was it worth the hassle?"

    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    I think the original data might be by a David Andrews of the Soar
    Valley Soarers in their newsletter, Verbals.  I would like to believe
    that "Solafilm" is the same things as "Solarfilm"; is it?

    Alton, the librarian

    
    
    I have been building planes for over a year now and I keep having
    problems with wrinkles. after I cover the plane "Monocoate" it looks
    great but after a couple of days you begin to see wrinkles here and
    there. What am I doing wrong.
    
    signed frustrated

    Three of the more likely possibilities:
    
    1. You're not pulling enough tension on the film as you iron
    down the edges. It should be as smooth and wrinkle free as possible
    before applying the shrinking heat.
    
    2. The film is creeping on the wood after a few days, relaxing
    the tension and causing wrinkles. Caused by insufficient heat or
    pressure on the iron when applying.
    
    3. Similar to #2, except that the shrinkage heat is too low, resulting
    in incomplete shrinkage.
    
    
    Practice on an open structure with some scrap Monokote, using more
    heat than usual.
    
    Learn what too much heat will do to Monokote, then back off slightly.
    
    Terry

    You can also use oracover and you will NOT have that problem. It also
    won't leave itself behind when you need to peel it off. The only
    problem (my opinion only) is that they don't offer transparent colors.
    Although there is talk that they will some day. Ultra-coat is supposed
    to be the same but I have not tried it myself.
    

In Ajai's note on his building the Wot4 it talks
about a discussion concerning multi-color piecing
of monocote or whatever film on glass and then
covering.  Could someone put a pointer to that 
technique here?

Thanks
Chad

    Ajai, I'm thinking of trying a multiple color motif over open structure
    and I went back and read notes .109-.111 in here to see how you did it
    with the glass plate. It generated a few questions.
    
    I will have some sheeted areas to be covered. I hate monocoat because
    of the bubbles. How has the Wot4 stood up to storage? Did the nitrate
    dope help with the wrinkles over time?
    
    When you sealed the edges of adjacent areas on the glass plate with the
    trim iron, did you use a lower than normal setting to avoid the
    wrinkling due to shrinkage at the seam?
    
    Who's John Smith and where were you reading about his covering
    techniques?

        Re:      <<< Note 1244.118 by RANGER::REITH "Jim (RANGER::) Reith - LJO2" >>>

        Jim,
        
                ULTRAKOTE doesn't  bubble or wrinkle.  My Legend was used
        all summer and didn't develop any!
        
        Anker

    John Smith is a modeler from a club in southern Mass who is known for
    producing meticulous covering jobs with Monokote. He gave a lecture
    at a CRRC meeting (and also at CMRCM?) and demonstrated his technique
    for applying Monokote. He swears by the stuff, and the results certainly
    are impressive, but I still prefer Ultracoat. If I remember correctly,
    the key points from the lecture were 1) good surface preparation (but
    then that's always needed), 2) use of nitrate dope on the wood to
    improve adhesion, and 3) a VERY hot iron to seal the covering and
    shrink it tight. When I say hot, I mean you can't leave it in one spot
    too long because it will burn right through the covering.
    
    I have a copy of his lecture handout if you're interested.
    
    Dave
    

I read in the WOT4 note about using nitrate dope
as an "undercoat" before putting the film on.

Excuse the ignorance, but what is "Nitrate Dope"?

Is this the same stuff as the dope with the balsa
and paper/cloth planes or is it different?  I ask
because I need to figure out what it is in German.

What is the difference to Balsarite?

Thanks

Chad

    It's the stuff that they use for stick and tissue/silk planes. There
    are two types of dope available. Nitrate is the older version and
    Butyrate is the more common one in the states. Most hobby stores can
    get it and some even have it if they've gotten a few requests due to
    the word going around the area about it helping adhesion.

    
    If I remember correctly, nitrate dope is not fuel proof, butyrate is.
    
    Balsarite is nitrate dope with a little dye in it, and sold at 4 times
    the cost of nitrate.

	  Gee, I got spooked when I saw the WOT4 note pop up as my
	  'next unseen' note, after a loooong time. Answers to
	  your questions....
    
>    I will have some sheeted areas to be covered. I hate monocoat because
>    of the bubbles. How has the Wot4 stood up to storage? Did the nitrate
>    dope help with the wrinkles over time?

	  ABSOLUTELY! The biggest sheeted area that I monokoted,
	  is the fuse plus empennage, which is still as good as
	  new. The sheeted sections of the wing (le, and centre)
	  are also just fine. The covering over the wing bays are
	  taut as ever.

	  I have had a few wrinkles show up on one elevator. This
	  could be due to too thin a coat of nitrate dope, or my
	  own inexperience with this new technique. This is the
	  first time I used monokote on a plane.

	  There is also some slackening over one wing tip - this
	  could be due to inadequate adhesion at the edge.
    
>    When you sealed the edges of adjacent areas on the glass plate with the
>    trim iron, did you use a lower than normal setting to avoid the
>    wrinkling due to shrinkage at the seam?

	  I used the high setting on the trim iron. The glass
	  sheet acts like a heat sink, so you don't experience any
	  shrinkage. The low setting was ineffective in bonding
	  the two pieces. Tread without fear :)

>    Who's John Smith and where were you reading about his covering
>    techniques?

	  See Dave's note. 

	  One thing to keep in mind, is that your multi color job
	  will be a lot simpler if you have patterns with straight
	  edges, as opposed to curved ones, which are harder to
	  line up. Also, having many colours on the control
	  surfaces make them painful to cover, especially if you
	  have to match the edges between different colours with
	  those that exist on the fixed surface the control
	  surface is attached to.

ajai
Thu Jan 23 14:28:13 1992

    Well, this kinda ties in with .-1
    
    I was told that the stuff used to wrap Easter baskets was usable as a
    covering for HLG applications. I didn't have any Balsarite so I used
    the Nitrate dope I did have. It didn't work. The film will heat shrink
    but the nitrate dope didn't hold it to the structure sufficiently.
    Other people might be interested in trying this though since it is
    lighter than micafilm and at $.88 for a 5'x20" roll, what have you got
    to lose. It's a great way to get a transparent purple plane 8^)
    

    
    This may have been mentioned in here before (is there anything which
    *hasn't*? 8^).
    
    Last weekend I bought a gadget called a "Smart-Cut", which is a
    glass-filled plastic widget with holders for two craft knife blades,
    and a spacer which can be adjusted to give give a cut which leaves 
    either a 1/8th or 1/16th inch overlap of covering film/cloth. 
    
    I love it! It makes nice neat joins easy on the covering. I only used
    it a bit for the fuselage of my Puppeteer yesterday, but it's a really
    good idea. The only slight snag is that it makes me even fussier about
    the overall standard of finish! 
    
    Highly, highly recommended if you don't already have one.
    
    Nigel
    

>                                  <<< Note 73.99 by BAHTAT::EATON_N "Smile when you say that!" >>>
>                                                       -< Get a smart cut! >-
...
>    I love it! It makes nice neat joins easy on the covering. I only used
>    it a bit for the fuselage of my Puppeteer yesterday, but it's a really
>    good idea. The only slight snag is that it makes me even fussier about
>    the overall standard of finish! 
>    
>    Highly, highly recommended if you don't already have one.
>    
>    Nigel

I've been wondering about those things.

Glad to hear you like it - now I'll have to add it to my WRAM(Wilmington?) list.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

Lamar ordered one the last group Tower order. Of course, getting 
an opinion on it would assUme he's gotten into the shop 8^)

Yup, I've got one of them puppies! :-) When I finally get around to covering
the Train-Aire .40, I let you know what I think. Glad to hear Nigel has had
good luck with it. I'll bring it with ne tomorrow Kay and you can take a look
at it(along with the 1/12 ME 109!)

-Lamar

    I was wondering if anyone had any advice on covering irons.  I have a
    hobbico $20 job, but I can't for the life of me, get a decent covering
    job done with it.  Is it me or should I get a better iron?  My usual
    problem is monokote peeling up where it overlays other monokote. 
    Sometimes I just have problems getting the stuff to stick.  What brand
    irons do you all use?
    
    Andy
    PS-is there a note on the proper application of monokote?
    

Sounds like the temperature is too low or the covering is old and the adhesive
is no good. Can you get it to shrink with the current setting? I find monocoat
darkens in color slightly when I have the iron at the right temperature (and
returns to normal when it cools)

    On most of the irons I've had, I set the temp. dial to around 2 or 2.5
    for most coverings. I use the "cheap" econocote on my Gremlins and
    about 2.3 works well. Monocote sticks well anywhere between 2.5 and
    about 2.8. For shrinking around curves, I go up to 3 or maybe 3.2 .
    
    The usual problem with covering over covering is bubbles. If it's not
    sticking, it either wasn't cleaned off good enough, or the iron isn't
    hot enough.

    ... and don't forget to remove the backing! I think that's the most 
    likely cause for monokote not sticking to monokote. I've somehow
    forgotten to remove the backing more times than I care to admit.
    
    Dave
    

    Ah yes......the old leave the backing on the covering trick. As much as
    I hate to admit it, i've done it myself. In fact, I'm surprised Dan
    Miner hasn't reminded me about it yet. 8^)

You're supposed to remove the backing and then apply it over the top to get the
proper "shine" on your finished plane... 8^)

I have flown one of these trainers where the covering came off in flight due to
having the backing being still in place!

    Hmm, God help me if this is what I'm doing!  I haven't had the covering
    come off in flight yet, so maybe I remembered to peel the backing off :).  
    

Turning up the temperature will help in either case. I find that the extra heat
will cause the backing/monocoat to shrink at different amounts and it will
bubble/separate. (yeah, I've grabbed the wrong piece after pulling the backing
off one while covering)

I just recently bought a new Top Flight iron when my 20 year old one died (from
being dropped once too many times) and like the original, it has a knob that
turns from 7 o'clock (low) past 12 o'clock (medium) to 5 o'clock (probably too
hot). I find Ultracoat and econocoat like to be in the 11 o'clock range but
Monocoat wants 1-2 o'clock. Without one of the iron thermometers, I can't tell
you what this translates to in temperature but I'd play with some scrap monocoat
and crank the temperature up until you see the color darken and see how that
works. If you get to the point where the color delaminates when you peel it back
off. You're at or SLIGHTLY beyond the temperature. I've done this in the past
and that's how I discovered the "proper" temperature for my iron.