Conference vmszoo::rc

        Re:        <<< Note 1071.0 by WRASSE::FRIEDRICHS "Never trust a premi!" >>>

        Jeff,
        
                I would  tend  to take a hard line with them.  First tell
        them that their  lack  of  attention  to  safety and insurance is
        placing all fliers in  jeopardy  and  if  that doesn't do the job
        talk to the local constabulary,  which  I am sure will serve them
        quick notice.
        
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             Anker      \_|_/

    The local police have no authority.  These fliers are flying with
    permission of the land owners..  
    
    We are thinking of talking to the land owners, but that will need to
    be carefully done as we don't want to hang ourselves in the process.
    
    jeff
    

Jeff - I think it is all a question of the law.

Suppose your plane crashes and kills some child.
Who to the parents sue.

Were the other flyers negligent?

Yes - if you can prove that they know about your AMA site.

Was the owner of the land that gave them permission to fly negligent?

Yes - if you can prove that he knew about your AMA site and
you explained the technical details about frequency control
and dangers of model airplanes.

Were you negligent?

Yes - if they can prove that you did not take reasonable steps to insure
the safety of your activities.  That would include informing the other
flyers and the land owner of the other flyers of the dangers involved.

BUT - we don't often kill people.

What if your plane crashes?

I think in Mass you could take the other flyers to small claims court
for triple damages.

What if their plane crashes.

I think in Mass they could take you to small claims court
for triple damages.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I think you could win the case since you Pay for insurance and Pay
to joined an organized club and do both for reasons of safety
and they don't.

Summary - I think your club has to talk to the other flyers (with witnesses)
and try to convince them to either join your club and the AMA or please
move further away.  If they won't listen to reason then you will probably 
have to convince their land owner to help you.

If the land owner won't help then you can try and get a court order
to prevent them from flying.  There is nothing that requires them to
have insurance or join the AMA to fly but if you can prove that they
represent a safety hazard and that your club was flying at this club
site first then you should be able to stop them.  It may be difficult
to get a generic restraining order against anybody flying within N miles
of your site but you could get one restricting the land owner from
allowing the activity - this way you have one name to go after for a
target.

Judges will throw you out on your ear if you haven't talked to all the
parties involved and have copies of registered letters sent to them
notifying them of your intentions to seek legal solutions if they
do not cooperate.

I'm most interested in how you make out - please keep us posted.
I sure hope you can resolve the differences with a friendly get together
and a fun fly.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
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    Hi Jeff, i,m sure im going to get alot of heat on this one,but this
    is what i would to
    
    1 find out what channel,s there on and let all your club member,s
    know,and post it at your flying field.
    
    2 try to be friendly to these people,and explain to them that
    you could both lose aircraft,time,money not to mention the
    safty of all modelers at both fields.
    
    3 if it,s just a few people causing your club all this hassel
    i,d find out if money is the main reason there not joining
    ama , and yor club. if it is give them a break on the club
    due,s mabe as a club chip in and help out with ama dues.
    if you dont its going to cost some of your members airplanes.
    at about 350.00 per person. id rather chip in as a group.
    im sure once the people have joined your club and made
    friendships they would pay there own way next year.
    
    4 if that dos,nt work buy a small thermal nuclure device
    and vaporise there field.
    
    5 if you are unsucsessful ,talk to the land owner of the
    field they are flying at any tell them they have no insurence
    and all that,if the land owner does kick them out ,
     they wont be happy,,,,,,,,and they may be on your
    frequency,,
    
    jeff see ya at rin de beck,ill bring a latter
    
    
                                                        pm
    

RE:   < Note 1071.3 by K::FISHER "Stop and Smell the Balsa!" >

>Who to the parents sue.

    The parents will want to sue everyone who was involved, but since it
    was your plane, and since you have maintained insurance, and have the
    ability to pay via that insurance, the parents lawyers will insist on
    going after you alone.

    The AMA insurance people will settle the whole thing out of court for
    an undisclosed sum, and you will be the one stuck with the guilt of
    having your plane kill an innocent child, no matter whose fault it
    really was. 

    After the court case, you'll quit your club and the AMA, and go fly with
    your new found pals at the nearby renegade field until the state
    legislature bans flying altogether in your state.

    It could happen, I saw it on L.A. Law!  :-)

Later,

Don

    
    
    Carry a 12 gage in your flight box.

    One action to take is to post a sign at your field stating you are an
    AMA sanctioned club. This gives the general public confidence that you
    are organized, committed to safety and covered by insurance. It also
    show you have a right or have been granted permission to use the field.
    All this goes for public relations, something you will need if you must
    get community support.
    
    regards,
    Bob G.
    V.P. Jersey Coast RC Club
    
    

    
    Definitely talk to the land owner(s) and get his feelings about
    it.  Explain to him what the AMA is all about, how it encourages safe
    flying practices, insurance coverage and putting limits on noise.  Don't
    tell him all the bad things about the AMA that we've learned from Al
    Casey :-).
    
    If he still wants to let those guys fly without at least joining AMA
    I think you're only choice is to try to work it out with them.  You
    might want to talk to some AMA officials about it but I doubt if 
    there is any way they can help you.
    
    Bill

    
    
    	Q: Which site was the first active flying site?
    
    
    	Q: What are the specific reasons why the nonclub group doesn't
    	   with to joint your club?
    
    If your clubs site was the first site  then I feel you can be a
    little stronger in your actions. I'd have your club officers contact
    the parties who fly and the land owner and indicate your case,the
    insurance and liability issues and how your club deals with such
    matters and ask if you can come to some reasonable end. My club
    had a few guys that flew miles away but in order to assure no conflicts
    we wave the club dues and entry fees for the first year for these
    guys. Now that there in the club these guys are becoming quite active.
    
    
    If your site was the second of the two sites then who is tresspassing
    on whos' airspace?
    
    
    Tom

    Kinder, Gentler Nation?  Bah Humbug!  Here's how to deal with the
    situation:
    
    1) Go to the renegade field.
    2) Observe the frequencies being used by the renegade flyers.
    3) Have a club meeting.
    4) Borrow one transmitter for each frequency used by the renegade flyers.
    5) Return to the renegade field, but park around the corner.
    6) Shoot down the renegade flyers with the borrow transmitters.
    7) Wait a few minutes.
    8) Drive up to the renegade flyers.
    9) Explain that you were just going to fly at the club field.
   10) Casually mention that you decided not to fly.
   11) Say that you reached your decision after performing a range check.
   12) Describe how your radio just plum refused to work right.
   13) Remark on how it seems that your frequency and his are the same.
   14) Comment on what a shame it is that his plane crashed.
   15) Explain to him the basics of radio interference.
   16) Mention that if he had been at the club field, this tragic accident
       could have been avoided.
   17) Give him a few copies of the club application form.
   18) Leave.
   19) Don't let him see the 40 different transmitters in your car.


    Disclaimer:  This is a theoretical dissertation.  The author can not be
    held responsible for, and does not recommend, the use, application, or
    misapplication of his theories.  The author does not recommend or
    condone any improper activies.  That you could get caught doing 8^). 

    Im not sure, are you guys looking for politicians/negotiators or
    are you looking for vigalantes.  Im sorry but I really feel the
    undercurrent that since the AMA does some things right that the
    AMA and its clubs are somewhat holy.  Getting someones field closed
    makes anyone mad.  How do you guys feel when you lose a field.
    there are certanly ways to keep everyone happy.  How about a "CB"
    coordination of frequencys in use.  Getting people mad only leads
    to more planes being shot down.  Malice does no one any good.
    
    your mileage may vary.
    
    Dave
    
    Who has only had boats shot down.

    Except for matters of financial settlement/responsibility after
    an accident, I don't think the AMA or the landowner relationships
    have anything to do with the situation.   Nor who was there first.
    
    The only existing, applicable law I'm aware of is the communications
    act of 1934.  It basically says you cannot bother your neighbor
    with your transmission.  It would apply equally to either party;
    if they are on the air, *you* must defer.  As I see it, the two
    parties are equal under all of our laws.
    
    Under the umbrella of providing for the public welfare, the local
    selectmen could regulate flying in the town, setting up a scheme
    of permitted fields and permitted frequencies.