| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1054.1 | make sure it will work after impact | LEDS::HUGHES | Dave Hughes (LEDS::HUGHES) NKS1-1/E3 291-7214 | Fri Jul 21 1989 13:53 | 19 |
| Any locator noisemaker should have a self-contained (tightly attached)
power supply and be activated on the loss of signal from the radio
receiver. It is not uncommon for crashed planes to "spill their guts"
and the flight pack battery being a heavy item, it's very likely it will
unplug itself on impact. I would guess the probability of a servo-
activated system functioning after a crash to be about 50%.
It's a simple circuit to plug into an unused channel on the receiver
pack, and look for loss of signal to trigger a noisemaker. Bill Lewis,
Charlie Watt, and I have discussed it many times, it's just that nobody
has gotten around to making one.
What I have in mind is a small noisemaker (sonalert type) with a 9v
transistor radio battery and small circuit board tightly attached or
potted together in epoxy.
Maybe some year we'll get around to designing it.
Dave Hughes
|
| 1054.2 | Very simple circuit! | LEDS::LEWIS | | Fri Jul 21 1989 15:17 | 11 |
|
Actually I have built one! It uses a 9-volt battery and a
piezo-electric buzzer. Starts beeping when pulses stop
coming from the receiver. Beeps for at least 4 hours. It's
very small and lightweight, could be use in planes down to .20
size no problem.
I think I have the schematic in Valid (schematic entry sytem) and
could send you the ascii drawing file if you have a Valid system.
Bill
|
| 1054.3 | Range/duration would be really limited | CURIE::ANKER | Anker Berg-Sonne | Fri Jul 21 1989 15:22 | 24 |
| Re:<<< Note 1054.1 by LEDS::HUGHES "Dave Hughes (LEDS::HUGHES) NKS1-1/E3 291-7214" >>>
I suspect such a device would have limited usefulness
because of the battery drain that would be caused by a sund
generator with enough volume to make it useful. I have tried to
locate planes by moving servos and have found that the servo
noise doesn't have more than about 10 yards useful range if any
kind of external noise exists, like wind.
My ideal device would be a transmitter of some sort, say
on the CB band (I know its illegal) coupled with a directional
antenna. This would have the range and duration necessary to be
useful.
_
/ |
| _====____/==|
|-/____________|
| | o \
O \
O
Hang in there! o_|_
|
Anker \_|_/
|
| 1054.4 | long life - no problem | LEDS::HUGHES | Dave Hughes (LEDS::HUGHES) NKS1-1/E3 291-7214 | Fri Jul 21 1989 17:04 | 17 |
|
re: -.1
The circuit can be designed for maximum battery life. I would make
it a short pulse of noise every 2-3 seconds. Like my smoke detector's
low-battery condition - it gives a brief beep every 20 seconds and
on a LOW battery it will do that for days. You don't need continual
sound. I bet you could have a loud one that would last a couple days
on a 9-volt battery.
The only problem with some of those high-pitched beepers is that
they are hard to locate directionally - you can hear it but can't tell
what direction. But, if my plane was in a swamp/woods and I could
hear a location beeper, I'd be a lot better off finding the plane
than without it.
Dave
|
| 1054.5 | High V, small battery | WRASSE::FRIEDRICHS | Never trust a premi! | Fri Jul 21 1989 17:22 | 11 |
| I found a battery that might be really good for this application... It
is a 22.5V flash battery. It is slightly larger than a 9V and it has
a terminal on each end. I bet the circuit could use the extra voltage
for volume and as an intermittent tone, would probably last a long
time.
Let me know if you want the specifics and I will dig it out...
cheers,
jeff
|
| 1054.6 | You'de only need a few minutes, I'de bet | LEDS::COHEN | | Fri Jul 21 1989 17:48 | 14 |
|
SonAlerts are really quite loud. They typically operate from 9V or
less. They are specifically designed to provide omni-directional sound
that can be easily heard in a noisy environment. These things get used
a lot on machine tools and printing presses (two things I've had some
direct experience with). You'de be amazed at how well you can hear one
over the din of a continuous web press, or an operating machine shop.
Hook one up to a 9V battery, and you'll get sound out of it for a good
10 to 15 minutes (at least). If you built a circuit to pulse for 1
second every 10 seconds, you could expect almost 2 and a half hours of
sound before it died.
Seems like a reasonalbe amount of time to me...
|
| 1054.7 | Interest Here!!! | MJOSWS::BENSON | __Frank Benson, DTN 348-4944__ | Fri Jul 21 1989 18:22 | 18 |
| re: .2
Bill-
I think that's a great "quickie project" that a lot of us could use!
Is it possible to post a schematic here, or make it available for
download to to a VAXstation (Sight?)?
I would certainly use it and would appreciate not having to start from
scratch or having to buy an overpriced commercial version. BTW- It
would also be a great "RX battery left on" alarm, as well!
Thanks in advance-
|
\ __|__ / Regards-
\________________________O________________________/ Frank.
|
| 1054.8 | RE .2 | TARKIN::HARTWELL | Dave Hartwell | Fri Jul 21 1989 19:53 | 8 |
| RE .2 Charlie can you mail me a copy of the schematic
Dave Hartwell BXB2-2/G06
Thanks, Dave
|
| 1054.9 | It would have been useful yesterday | LEDS::LEWIS | | Mon Jul 24 1989 14:21 | 8 |
|
Ok I'll get on it. I'll post a sixel drawing of the schematic in this
note once I find where I put the durn thing.
After this horrible weekend I will now be donating one to every student
I work with.
Bill
|
| 1054.10 | just in fun | ORIENT::JONEILL | | Tue Jul 25 1989 10:23 | 3 |
| Boy, I didn't realize how good we new england pilots are. Being able to
fly are planes in heavly wooded areas (ha ha)
|
| 1054.11 | Homing Beeper (Postscript schematic) | LEDS::LEWIS | | Tue Jul 25 1989 16:46 | 1338 |
|
Ok folks, here's the schematic. It uses a single one-shot package,
a 5 volt regulator, two transistors, a handful of resistors and
capacitors and a piezo-electric buzzer. It runs on a single 9V
battery independent of the receiver battery. It draws about 10ma
quiescent current and probably twice that while beeping. I think
it worked for over four hours when I tested it a long time ago.
It has its own on/off switch to save battery - I recommend you
couple the switch in with your receiver switch if possible so it
is only turned on when you are flying.
It specifies that the throttle channel should be used in the circuit,
but if you have more than four channels you can certainly use one
of the unused channels just as well and not have to splice the
throttle connection.
There are two enhancements Charlie and I are thinking about. One is
to have it run off the receiver battery until voltage is lost
(either in a crash or battery going dead), to preserve the 9V
battery (the drain on the receiver battery would be only a fraction
of the capacity). The way it is now you have to replace the 9V
battery every few weeks or try to get something rechargeable in there.
I don't know how long it will last with a 9V rechargeable but I doubt
it would last long because they have very low capacity.
The second enhancement is to make it more immune to a broken wire
from the receiver. I used a pulldown on the signal in case the
receiver signal wire or receiver battery wire broke in the crash,
but the resistor value really isn't small enough to guarantee it will
work. And you can't go much smaller with the resistor because you
overload the receiver output. A simple solution is another one-shot
but this adds to the current drain.
I would recommend experimenting with different buzzers, including
having someone hide the circuit in the woods and trying to find it.
Some tones give more directional information than others. I was
not real happy with the tiny piezo-electric buzzer I used, but never
got around to experimenting with other ideas, such as tiny speakers.
To print the schematic you need an LN03 set up for postscript format.
Extract this note and edit out the text before the form-feed.
When I print it here in NKS I use the following command :
$ print/queue=your_queue /param=-
(data_type=postscript, page_size=a, sheet_size=a) file_name.ext
I hope this format doesn't give everyone trouble. Unfortunately I don't
know how to get it into sixel format. If you have any trouble, send
me mail at LEDS::LEWIS with your mail stop and I'll send you a
hardcopy.
Enjoy, and let me know if you have any suggestions for improvements.
Bill
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s n -1275 -484 m
-1267 -472 l
s
n
-1267 -506 21 0.000000 180.000000 a s
n -1245 -544 m
-1245 -502 l
s n -1289 -504 m
-1289 -544 l
s
(74) -1319 -454 t4
n
-1187 -440 7 c s
n -1195 -396 m
-1195 -484 l
s
(LS123) -1299 -480 t4
(CLR) -1199 -462 t4
n -1379 -460 m
-1363 -460 l
s n -1379 -420 m
-1363 -420 l
s
(R/C) -1345 -480 t4
(C) -1345 -422 t4
n -1059 339 m
-1057 339 l
s n -1099 339 m
-1101 339 l
s n -1079 289 m
-1079 309 l
s
(2N3904) -1059 359 t4
n -1058 324 m
-1060 338 l
s n -1070 326 m
-1058 324 l
s n -1060 338 m
-1070 326 l
s n -1055 339 m
-1039 339 l
s n -1069 309 m
-1059 339 l
s n -1103 339 m
-1119 339 l
s n -1089 309 m
-1099 339 l
s n -1079 287 m
-1079 279 l
s n -1099 309 m
-1061 309 l
s
n
-1079 319 31 c s
n -1219 479 m
-1217 479 l
s n -1259 479 m
-1261 479 l
s n -1239 429 m
-1239 449 l
s
(2N2222A) -1219 499 t4
n -1218 464 m
-1220 478 l
s n -1230 466 m
-1218 464 l
s n -1220 478 m
-1230 466 l
s n -1215 479 m
-1199 479 l
s n -1229 449 m
-1219 479 l
s n -1263 479 m
-1279 479 l
s n -1249 449 m
-1259 479 l
s n -1239 427 m
-1239 419 l
s n -1259 449 m
-1221 449 l
s
n
-1239 459 31 c s
n -1089 819 m
-1079 819 l
s n -1209 919 m
-1219 919 l
s n -1209 739 m
-1219 739 l
s
(BLK) -1119 789 t4
(RED) -1159 719 t4
n -1089 699 m
-1089 959 l
s n -1209 959 m
-1209 879 l
s n -1209 699 m
-1209 779 l
s n -1109 699 m
-1189 699 l
s n -1109 959 m
-1109 699 l
s n -1189 959 m
-1109 959 l
s n -1189 699 m
-1189 959 l
s
(PIEZO BUZZER) -1139 729 t4
(5K) -969 -570 t4
n -1005 -546 m
-999 -542 l
s n -993 -552 m
-1005 -546 l
s n -1005 -558 m
-993 -552 l
s n -993 -564 m
-1005 -558 l
s n -999 -580 m
-999 -600 l
s n -999 -542 m
-999 -520 l
s n -999 -580 m
-993 -576 l
s n -1005 -570 m
-993 -564 l
s n -993 -576 m
-1005 -570 l
s
(10K) -1209 249 t4
n -1245 273 m
-1239 277 l
s n -1233 267 m
-1245 273 l
s n -1245 261 m
-1233 267 l
s n -1233 255 m
-1245 261 l
s n -1239 239 m
-1239 219 l
s n -1239 277 m
-1239 299 l
s n -1239 239 m
-1233 243 l
s n -1245 249 m
-1233 255 l
s n -1233 243 m
-1245 249 l
s
(10K) -1049 189 t4
n -1085 213 m
-1079 217 l
s n -1073 207 m
-1085 213 l
s n -1085 201 m
-1073 207 l
s n -1073 195 m
-1085 201 l
s n -1079 179 m
-1079 159 l
s n -1079 217 m
-1079 239 l
s n -1079 179 m
-1073 183 l
s n -1085 189 m
-1073 195 l
s n -1073 183 m
-1085 189 l
s
(75K) -1459 -140 t4
n -1449 -155 m
-1443 -166 l
s n -1461 -154 m
-1455 -166 l
s n -1439 -160 m
-1419 -160 l
s n -1499 -160 m
-1477 -160 l
s n -1443 -166 m
-1439 -160 l
s n -1455 -166 m
-1449 -155 l
s n -1467 -166 m
-1461 -154 l
s n -1473 -154 m
-1467 -166 l
s n -1477 -160 m
-1473 -154 l
s
(200K) -1499 -440 t4
n -1509 -455 m
-1503 -466 l
s n -1521 -454 m
-1515 -466 l
s n -1499 -460 m
-1479 -460 l
s n -1559 -460 m
-1537 -460 l
s n -1503 -466 m
-1499 -460 l
s n -1515 -466 m
-1509 -455 l
s n -1527 -466 m
-1521 -454 l
s n -1533 -454 m
-1527 -466 l
s n -1537 -460 m
-1533 -454 l
s
(470) -1399 499 t4
n -1409 484 m
-1403 473 l
s n -1421 485 m
-1415 473 l
s n -1399 479 m
-1379 479 l
s n -1459 479 m
-1437 479 l
s n -1403 473 m
-1399 479 l
s n -1415 473 m
-1409 484 l
s n -1427 473 m
-1421 485 l
s n -1433 485 m
-1427 473 l
s n -1437 479 m
-1433 485 l
s
(220K) -1359 239 t4
n -1369 224 m
-1363 213 l
s n -1381 225 m
-1375 213 l
s n -1359 219 m
-1339 219 l
s n -1419 219 m
-1397 219 l
s n -1363 213 m
-1359 219 l
s n -1375 213 m
-1369 224 l
s n -1387 213 m
-1381 225 l
s n -1393 225 m
-1387 213 l
s n -1397 219 m
-1393 225 l
s
(10K) -1179 -800 t4
n -1189 -814 m
-1183 -826 l
s n -1201 -814 m
-1195 -826 l
s n -1179 -820 m
-1159 -820 l
s n -1239 -820 m
-1217 -820 l
s n -1183 -826 m
-1179 -820 l
s n -1195 -826 m
-1189 -814 l
s n -1207 -826 m
-1201 -814 l
s n -1213 -814 m
-1207 -826 l
s n -1217 -820 m
-1213 -814 l
s
( ) -1479 19 t4
(1UF) -1499 19 t4
n
-1503 0 13 135.000000 225.000000 a s
n -1559 0 m
-1523 0 l
s n -1523 -10 m
-1523 9 l
s n -1479 0 m
-1517 0 l
s
( ) -1339 -100 t4
(10UF) -1359 -80 t4
n
-1363 -120 13 135.000000 225.000000 a s
n -1419 -120 m
-1383 -120 l
s n -1383 -130 m
-1383 -110 l
s n -1339 -120 m
-1377 -120 l
s
( ) -1399 -400 t4
(40UF) -1419 -400 t4
n
-1423 -420 13 135.000000 225.000000 a s
n -1479 -420 m
-1443 -420 l
s n -1443 -430 m
-1443 -410 l
s n -1399 -420 m
-1437 -420 l
s
( ) -1899 -940 t4
(10UF) -1919 -940 t4
n
-1923 -960 13 135.000000 225.000000 a s
n -1978 -960 m
-1942 -960 l
s n -1942 -969 m
-1942 -950 l
s n -1899 -960 m
-1936 -960 l
s
( ) -1329 159 t4
(1UF) -1349 159 t4
n
-1353 139 13 135.000000 225.000000 a s
n -1409 139 m
-1373 139 l
s n -1373 129 m
-1373 149 l
s n -1329 139 m
-1367 139 l
s
21.667100 f
(9) -1203 -277 t4
/t5{gsave dup neg 3 -1 roll dup neg
4 1 roll 3 -1 roll moveto translate
180 rotate show grestore} def
(11) -1089 -144 t5
(12) -1163 -76 t4
(6) -1323 -124 t5
(10) -1223 -290 t4
(5) -1283 -76 t4
(7) -1323 -164 t5
(1) -1263 -577 t4
(3) -1162 -444 t5
(4) -1223 -376 t4
(14) -1383 -424 t5
(2) -1283 -577 t4
(13) -1343 -376 t4
(15) -1383 -464 t5
n -1978 -20 m
-1978 -100 l
s
26.667200 f
(+5V) -1982 0 t4
n -1899 -220 m
-1859 -220 l
s n -1559 -160 m
-1559 0 l
s n -1479 0 m
-1439 0 l
s
(Q2) -1079 359 t4
(Q1) -1239 499 t4
(R6) -1419 499 t4
(R5) -1099 179 t4
(R4) -1379 239 t4
(SWITCH) -2038 -1079 t4
(ON/OFF) -2058 -1079 t4
n -1978 -1079 m
-2018 -1019 l
s n -1978 -1179 m
-1978 -1079 l
s
n
-1978 -1019 9 c s
n
-1978 -1079 9 c s
(SLOWLY DRAIN THE BATTERY EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT BEEPING.) -380 -1619 t4
/t7{gsave dup neg 3 -1 roll dup neg
4 1 roll 3 -1 roll moveto translate
90 rotate show } def
(WITH AN ALKALINE 9V BATTERY. KEEP IT SWITCHED OFF WHEN NOT I) -400 -1619 t7
/t3{show grestore}def
(N USE AS IT WILL STILL) t3
(AT THE EXPENSE OF ADDITIONAL CURRENT DRAIN. THE ABOVE CIRCUIT) -420 -1619 t7
( WILL LAST APPROXIMATELY 4 HOURS) t3
(SOUND IS NOT LOUD ENOUGH, A SMALL DRIVER AND SPEAKER CAN BE U) -440 -1619 t7
(SED IN PLACE OF THE BUZZER) t3
(THE PIEZO BUZZER CRYSTAL SELF-RESONATES WITH THE CIRCUIT GIVE) -460 -1619 t7
(N. IF THE HIGH-PITCHED) t3
(T2 SECONDS AT INTERVALS OF T1. T1 AND T2 CAN BE PICKED USING ) -480 -1619 t7
(THE ABOVE EQUATION.) t3
(THIS CYCLE CONTINUES UNTIL THROTTLE PULSES RETURN, SO THE BEE) -500 -1619 t7
(PER WILL SOUND FOR) t3
(T2 TIMES OUT, IT FIRES T1 AGAIN \050AS LONG AS THROTTLE_PULSE) -520 -1619 t7
( H REMAINS LOW\051.) t3
(T1 TIMES OUT AND FIRES T2 ONE SHOT. BUZZER BEEPS WHILE T2 IS ) -540 -1619 t7
(FIRED. WHEN) t3
(T2 ONE-SHOT FROM GETTING TRIGGERED. WHEN THROTTLE PULSES ARE ) -560 -1619 t7
(ABSENT FOR T1 SECONDS,) t3
(WHEN THROTTLE PULSES ARE PRESENT, T1 ONE-SHOT KEEPS GETTING R) -580 -1619 t7
(ETRIGGERED AND KEEPS) t3
(THEORY OF OPERATION:) -620 -1679 t4
n -1938 -1079 m
-1899 -1079 l
s n -1759 -1079 m
-1699 -1079 l
s
(\050THROTTLE WIRE\051) -1839 -1499 t4
n -1759 -1179 m
-1759 -1079 l
s n -1799 -1179 m
-1799 -840 l
s
(THROTTLE_PULSE H) -1803 -820 t4
n -1938 -1179 m
-1938 -1079 l
s n -1978 -960 m
-1978 -340 l
s
(+9V) -1982 -820 t4
n -1978 -1019 m
-1978 -960 l
s
(FROM 9 VOLT BATTERY) -2018 -1559 t4
n -1938 -1239 m
-1938 -1179 l
s
(BLACK WIRE) -1942 -1419 t4
n -1978 -1239 m
-1978 -1179 l
s
(RED WIRE) -1982 -1387 t4
n
-1938 -1179 9 c s
n
-1978 -1179 9 c s
(FROM RECEIVER) -1859 -1499 t4
n -1759 -1239 m
-1759 -1179 l
s
(BLACK WIRE \050GROUND\051) -1763 -1563 t4
n -1799 -1239 m
-1799 -1179 l
s
(WHITE WIRE \050SIGNAL\051) -1803 -1563 t4
n
-1759 -1179 9 c s
n
-1799 -1179 9 c s
(T2 ~ 0.25 seconds) -1659 -220 t4
(T1 ~ 2 seconds) -1659 -520 t4
41.667500 f
(and T is in nanoseconds) -720 -360 t4
(ONE SHOT EQUATION : T = 0.45 * R * C where R is in Kohms, C i) -760 -880 t7
(s in pF,) t3
26.667200 f
(R3) -1019 -580 t4
n -999 -660 m
-999 -600 l
s
(+5V) -1003 -720 t4
n -999 -520 m
-999 -440 l
-999 -140 l
-1119 -140 l
s n -999 -440 m
-1179 -440 l
s
(E1) -1199 -140 t4
(E1) -1259 -440 t4
(R2) -1479 -140 t4
(R1) -1519 -440 t4
(C2) -1379 -80 t4
(C1) -1439 -400 t4
n -1399 -320 m
-1379 -320 l
s n -1399 -420 m
-1399 -320 l
s n -1339 -20 m
-1319 -20 l
s n -1339 -120 m
-1339 -20 l
s n -1579 -160 m
-1559 -160 l
s
(+5V) -1603 -180 t4
n -1559 -160 m
-1499 -160 l
s n -1579 -460 m
-1559 -460 l
s
(+5V) -1603 -480 t4
n -979 819 m
-1079 819 l
s n -1319 919 m
-1219 919 l
s n -1199 -260 m
-1199 -300 l
-1159 -300 l
s n -1419 -160 m
-1319 -160 l
s n -1339 -120 m
-1319 -120 l
s n -1419 -160 m
-1419 -120 l
s n -1159 -80 m
-1159 -40 l
-1079 -40 l
s n -1479 -420 m
-1479 -460 l
s n -1079 159 m
-1079 -40 l
s
(BEEP L) -1093 -20 t4
n -1079 -40 m
-1079 -600 l
s n -1219 -380 m
-1219 -260 l
s n -1479 -460 m
-1379 -460 l
s n -1399 -420 m
-1379 -420 l
s n -1259 -820 m
-1259 -560 l
s n -1259 -900 m
-1259 -820 l
s
(THROTTLE_PULSE H) -1263 -1176 t4
n -1079 -600 m
-1279 -600 l
-1279 -560 l
s n -1239 418 m
-1239 339 l
-1120 339 l
s n -1239 339 m
-1239 299 l
s n -1319 219 m
-1239 219 l
s n -1339 219 m
-1319 219 l
s n -1459 219 m
-1419 219 l
s n -1489 219 m
-1459 219 l
s n -1529 219 m
-1489 219 l
s
(+9V) -1553 199 t4
n -1489 479 m
-1459 479 l
s n -1079 239 m
-1079 278 l
s n -1199 479 m
-1159 479 l
s n -1039 339 m
-979 339 l
s n -1319 219 m
-1319 919 l
s n -1219 739 m
-1209 739 l
s n -1089 819 m
-1079 819 l
s
(CONNECTORS) -1619 -1259 t4
n -1899 -960 m
-1879 -960 l
s
(C3) -1519 19 t4
(C4) -1938 -940 t4
(KEEP IN MIND THAT IF THESE WIRES ) -1449 619 t4
(BREAK IN A CRASH IT WON'T BEEP!) -1419 619 t4
(WHEN DOING THE INSTALLATION,) -1479 619 t4
(KEEP THE BUZZER, THE CIRCUIT, AND) -1389 619 t4
(THE BATTERY SECURELY MOUNTED TOGETHER.) -1359 619 t4
n -1259 -820 m
-1239 -820 l
s n -1159 -820 m
-1119 -820 l
s
(R7) -1259 239 t4
(R8) -1199 -800 t4
(R8 ATTEMPTS TO PULL DOWN) -1199 -1339 t4
(THE SIGNAL IF THE RECEIVER) -1169 -1339 t4
(CONNECTION IS BROKEN.) -1139 -1339 t4
(A SMALLER VALUE \0501K\051 IS) -1099 -1339 t4
(PREFERRED BUT MAY OVERLOAD) -1069 -1339 t4
(THE RECEIVER OUTPUT.) -1039 -1339 t4
41.667500 f
(HOMING BEEPER) -280 1078 t4
16.667000 f
(7/25/89) -300 889 t4
21.667100 f
(Bill Lewis) -300 729 t4
n -1459 219 m
-1459 139 l
-1409 139 l
s n -1329 139 m
-1299 139 l
s n -1489 219 m
-1489 479 l
s
26.667200 f
(C5) -1369 159 t4
n -1280 479 m
-1279 479 l
s n -1379 479 m
-1280 479 l
s n -1279 479 m
-1279 739 l
-1219 739 l
s showpage grestore
restore
|
| 1054.12 | | MJOSWS::BENSON | __Frank Benson, DTN 348-4944__ | Wed Jul 26 1989 18:14 | 14 |
| re: .11
I didn't see the address to send for the etched, drilled PC board!
:^) :^)
Seriously, nice job on the scematics... I'm going to look real close at
it to see if my skills will allow me to perf-build this project.
THANKS!
|
\ __|__ / Regards-
\________________________O________________________/ Frank.
|
| 1054.13 | Another Beeper | ROCK::MINER | Electric = No more glow-glop | Wed Oct 11 1989 19:03 | 39 |
| I have found the source for a commercial "beeper". It does not emit
a sound but rather is a transmitter that emits a radio signal. The
system comes with a Tx to put in your plane and then a directional
Rx w/ antenna that allows you to find your plane.
I found this ad in July 1989 Model Builder (page 88). Here is the
complete text of the ad:
"AT LAST... A Free Flight Model Retreival System that works...
EVERY TIME. An ultra light weight, long range miniature
transmitter combined with a highly sensitive receiver and
directional antenna will quickly help you track and locate your
plane. NEVER LOSE ANOTHER MODEL!
Send SASE for brochure:
Jim Walston
Retrieval Systems
725 Cooper Lake Rd, S.E.
Smyrna, GA 30080
Phone: (404)434-4905 "
I have not (yet) sent for the brochure so I do not know if the Tx in
the plane would interfere with an R/C system or not. (The ad only
mentions Free Flight planes and does NOT mention R/C at all.) When
I write, I'll be sure to ask if this system will work with an R/C
system or not.
_____
| \
| \ Silent POWER!
_ ___________ _________ | Happy Landings!
| \ | | | | |
|--------|- SANYO + ]-| ASTRO |--| - Dan Miner
|_/ |___________| |_________| |
| / | " The Earth needs more OZONE,
| / not Caster Oil!! "
|_____/
|
| 1054.14 | McDaniel R/C Sonic Alarm | K::FISHER | Stop and Smell the Balsa! | Thu Oct 12 1989 17:33 | 8 |
| > I have found the source for a commercial "beeper".
Me too. McDaniel R/C makes a device called a Sonic Alarm.
Bye --+--
Kay R. Fisher |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################
|
| 1054.15 | How much would YOU pay to find your lost plane? | HPSPWR::WALTER | | Fri Aug 02 1991 01:28 | 38 |
| Well, Kay, as long as you brought it up, I'll mention it, but it's still a
little early...
The subject is: Lost planes! And how do you get them back. A number of pilots
on the Eastern Soaring League circuit have expressed interest in some sort of
sonic alert they can install in their planes, controllable by a channel of the
radio. You see, these guys are constantly riding thermals downwind, and they
don't always make it back. Unlike Terry T., who can see his plane land in the
next state, we Easterners can't see around the next tree, which is usually only
100 feet away. And when a glider comes to rest 50 feet up in a tree, it is
devilishly hard to find... you can sometimes look right at it and still miss
it!
John Nilsson urged me to come up with something, so I put together a
little circuit that would plug into the receiver like a servo and fire off a
piezoelectric beeper on command from the transmitter. I also built in a
feature, selectable from a switch, that will cause the beeper to sound when
the transmitter is shut off, to warn you that the receiver is still on. It
could also be useful at a contest when you are searching for a lost plane but
can't keep the transmitter on the busy channel.
So why do I bring it up here? Because Kay asked me to... No, because I'm
soliciting input from people on what features they would like, how big, how
heavy, and the biggy: how much would you pay for this?
At its current state of development (fetal), the circuit is roughly 2" x 1.5",
with a separate 1.5" diameter piezo beeper and weighs about 29 grams (that's a
little over an ounce). I'm searching for another beeper because this one isn't
loud enough for my tastes. My target selling price is $16 to $20.
It would run off your receiver battery and draw about 3-5 mA when not active,
and around 5-10 mA when beeping. One feature that has already been suggested is
a low battery warning option. That would probably add $2 to the price of it.
So that's what Kay was alluding to. Any interest out there?
Dave
|
| 1054.16 | good idea; see also RC Report 3/90 pg 13 | BRAT::RYDER | perpetually the bewildered beginner | Fri Aug 02 1991 09:14 | 16 |
| Dave, this was discussed in note 1054.*, Beeping in a Swamp, and such a
product has been/is commercially available.
The 9 volt battery is a good source for primary power. (I liked the
idea of using the receiver battery for last-gasp power.) Cheap
versions of these batteries are available; Radio Shack will give you a
free one each month. (I must have several of them that I started to
collect when I decided to build the circuit. But that was two years
ago, and all I have to show for the project is a folder of references.
If one were waved in front of my nose at the right price, bingo.)
The optimal packaging tapes the circuit and piezoelectric element
tightly to the side of the 9 volt battery, so the sound system is
utterly crash-proof.
Alton, who will move these notes to 1054.last this weekend.
|
| 1054.17 | I'd buy one (or two...) | ZENDIA::REITH | Jim Reith DTN 226-6102 - LTN2-1/F02 | Fri Aug 02 1991 10:22 | 15 |
| Dave,
I like all the features (including the battery low) and the price is
just low enough for an impulse buy. If you can run it off the Rx
battery, all the better but Al's 9v battery option would give you
longer to search. Mounted in a built up wing would give a good sounding
board. Need a field test site? Long and skinny would fit into smaller
glider ballast areas. Maybe something about the shape of a 9v battery
that plugged onto the top (like plugging two batteries together). I
think you want to try to use a PC mounted buzzer so it doesn't get
separated in a crash/sudden stop. My RAM cycler has one that would be
loud enough once you got to the area. Might want to make the separate
channel activation selectable also since you could put it on a Y cable
with an active servo and then not be activated until loss of signal
(turn the Tx off and leave it in the car and go looking)
|
| 1054.18 | Need Good Noise Maker | LEDS::WATT | | Fri Aug 02 1991 10:59 | 16 |
| The only advantage to the 9V battery is that it would still work if the
receiver battery unplugged or failed. You could get more duration out
of the receiver battery by far. The servos don't draw much when they
are not moving. Piezo buzzers are not great for this application
because the frequency is high. It won't travel well from inside the
fuse, and it's hard to pinpoint direction with it. I was thinking of a
"chirp" circuit that would conserve the battery but would make more
noise. Somehow, you have to couple the noise outside the fuse though.
I was thinking of one for power planes and there you have to make it
still work in a severe crash into the woods. Usually the battery
unpluggs from the receiver and becomes useless. I get thinking about
this every time I go into the woods looking for a downed plane. Then
I get lazy and don't build one.
Charlie
|
| 1054.19 | | HPSPWR::WALTER | | Fri Aug 02 1991 12:30 | 22 |
| Certainly, the louder the noise maker the better, but I've been having
difficulting finding something that is loud AND small... and cheap. Tough
combination. Oh, and preferably operating from 5.0V.
I've set it up to beep for 0.1 second every 1 second. Even if the average
current draw was as much as 10mA, and you had only 100mA hours left in your
flight battery, it would take 10 hours continuous duty to drain the battery.
That's a lot of time to locate the plane.
We have already field tested the circuit. I put it in John Nilsson's plane,
and then hid it in the woods at the Zone. I then gave him very vague
instructions on where the plane "went down". He and two others found it easily.
And that was with power planes operating in the area. However, Chris Shuck
had a harder time hearing the beeps and is lobbying for a louder beeper.
Yes, you would have to locate the sound element with clear access to the outside
air, it won't sound very loud sealed inside the fuse. Unless I can find a louder
beeper.
Thanks for the inputs.
Dave
|
| 1054.20 | A line in the sand | KAY::FISHER | Stop and smell the balsa. | Fri Aug 02 1991 12:57 | 39 |
| Dave, last night the latest RCM arrived and guess what. There is a 1/2
page article on how to build one for $5.00.
A line in the sand so to speak.
It is only a beeper with a line to the Rx for power and a micro switch
to full down elevator to activate - but the price is right
and for most cases would work in a down glider.
The beeper in the Ram Simple Cycler is a good example - small and
light and loud enough for me.
Size is critical and weight is critical - Al - forget the extra 9 volt
battery - we already have one battery on board.
The RCM version - if you rigged the micro switch to use the normally
closed contacts such that anything except full down elevator held the
beeper off then in case of crash and damage the fail safe would be to
turn on the beeper. Course you still have to make sure that the beeper
and battery and switch stay close together and don't come undone.
Alternatives
How about a smoke bomb with a 1/2 hour fuse. Light it and fly.
If you don't loose your plane then pull the fuse when you land.
Don't neglect PCM.
You could have a mode where you watch for activity on a channel.
If activity on channel 1 ceases for over 5 minutes you're Tx must be off.
As I was telling Dave - I really wish someone would manufacture a state
of the art sniffler. The FCC rules have changed and you can put out
much more power on 49 MHz than the existing ACE sniffler and I can't believe
it couldn't be much smaller and lighter.
Bye --+--
Kay R. Fisher |
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| 1054.21 | Yes but | HPSRAD::AJAI | | Fri Aug 02 1991 14:38 | 7 |
| >>Course you still have to make sure that the beeper
>>and battery and switch stay close together and don't come undone.
How many crashes do we know of where the servo tray/bearers remain
integral with the fuse, on which, presumably, the microswitch is
mounted? Of course, the battery must still be hanging on!0
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| 1054.22 | Noise - That's the hard part | LEDS0::WATT | | Fri Aug 02 1991 15:15 | 17 |
| Since my interest is finding power planes, I would not be happy with
any system that can't work in a hard crash. (at least most of the time)
Also, with PCM, you can't as easily have the thing trigger on turning
off your TX. With PPM, the pulses go away when you turn off the TX,
but with PCM they don't. You would have to use a spare channel and set
up the Failsafe to do something like go minimum pulse width. Then your
circuit would have to differentiate between normal and minimum pulse
width. The Transducer is the biggest problem. I have not come up with
a good solution to one that could be heard from inside an intact fuse.
I have thought about something that would vibrate the covering like a
speaker. Maybe a remote fired smoke bomb would work. The only problem
is that your plane would probably get burned up before you found it.
How about a little servo motor that beats on the fuse side like a drum.
You could turn it on for short bursts and listen for it.
Charlie
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| 1054.23 | Mr. Spock - I hear a servo on overload! | KAY::FISHER | Stop and smell the balsa. | Fri Aug 02 1991 16:48 | 14 |
| > How about a little servo motor that beats on the fuse side like a drum.
> You could turn it on for short bursts and listen for it.
I think your on to something here - most of us have a bad servo laying around
(or at least one we should admit should not be used) that we could
take apart and turn it into a on/off motor (just remove the feedback gear
I think) and have the servo shaft arm beat on the fuselage side.
But - an elegant solution would be even smaller and lighter than a servo.
Bye --+--
Kay R. Fisher |
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| 1054.24 | How about a small but telltale thermonuclear device? | HPSPWR::WALTER | | Fri Aug 02 1991 17:10 | 19 |
| >>> and for most cases would work in a down glider.
All right Kay, what's a "down" glider? Is that one that takes thermals
down instead of up?
Your suggestions are all good (except the smoke bomb...), but I'm not
yet discouraged from pursuing my approach. Certainly running a microswitch
from an existing servo is cheap and light, but it requires... work! You
gotta get in there and do some mechanical planning, and a lot of us (me
included) tend to be lazy. And an existing radio layout may preclude the
addition of a microswitch, especially in the tight quarters of a glider.
Further problems: Shutting off the transmitter won't necessarily cause the
beeper to sound. And there's no provision for a low battery indicator.
Yep, $5 is cheap, but I think people with $400 sailplanes will gladly pay
$10 more for added features and convenient installation. Yes/no?
Dave
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| 1054.25 | How 'bout a teensy-weensy ELT? | HPSRAD::AJAI | | Fri Aug 02 1991 18:00 | 18 |
| I would pay $100 to get back my T60 in one piece :-) Forget one piece -
just to have found it in an hour, instead of 70+ days! Talk of living
in hell...
The beep would have to be kinda loud - like a stick of dynamite - as we
were searching for it about .25 miles from where it went down.
I'd say thrown in a ELT that activates upon loss of received signal.
The loss could be due to unplugged rx battery/TX off/TX too far away.
I would think even 100mW for the ELT would be more than adequate for
the small distances involved.
You would need a couple of radio's with DF antennas, and a good map of
the area. RF beats the problems of Audio/Visual locator schemes.
ajai
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| 1054.26 | Don't the FF guys already have something? | TLE::SASAKI | Marty Sasaki ZK02-3N30 381-0151 | Fri Aug 02 1991 18:12 | 4 |
| I remember seeing an advertisement in the back of a modeling magazine
for a locator for use with FF models. Don't remember any details...
Marty Sasaki
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| 1054.27 | you write your specifications; I'll write mine | BRAT::RYDER | perpetually the bewildered beginner | Fri Aug 02 1991 19:07 | 30 |
| >> Size is critical and weight is critical - Al - forget the extra 9 volt
>> battery - we already have one battery on board.
It is both possible and easy to have one's cake and eat it too. The
device could connect to both the RX battery and a 9 volt battery and
run off either without switches. For a light weight glider, you would
leave the 9 volt battery in the flight box; otherwise you would tape
the device to the 9 volt battery and put it at the CG (for "free"
ballast). There is a reason for 9 volts and not just 4.8 volts;
piezoelectric crystals are high impedance devices more effectively
driven with a high voltage source than with a current source; all else
being equal, the emitted sound will be much louder with 9 volts than
with 4.8. And the price of the 9 volt battery (namely zero at R.S.) is
right, otherwise I'd look at even higher voltages.
I, too, made a fetish of weight control in the Chuperosa, but when I
fly the Wanderer on a typical summer day, there is lead at the CG. I
might as well use a free battery instead of lead and get better
performance from the subsystem as a side-effect. Crashes often do
separate the battery pack from the rest of the stuff, and crashes are
more common on windy days. As for the Chuperosa, I don't think I'd use
this device even without the 9 volt battery; I cannot afford any extra
weight, although unlike Kay, I have a big open space at the CG.
FWIW, the T&D Fail-Safe System reviewed in that RC Report article
weighs 0.75 oz without the 9 volt battery. I don't know if the 9 volt
battery is optional or required. It has some additional features: low
sound power on low RX battery, loud sound on TX signal lost/off, and
the 9 volt battery is *back-up power* for the receiver. The price is
$40.
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| 1054.28 | Any beeper would help | TRNING::FRANCO | | Wed Aug 07 1991 14:31 | 11 |
|
I'm convinced that whatever device you use the absence or presence
of a 9 volt batt. should be of minor concern. (Except for sailplanes.)
I just put an ACE Bingo in the woods (July 27th.) and still haven't
found it. Of course there is waist high Kudzoo (sp) and snakes
to contend with. (NOTE: For those not living in the South, Kudzoo
is a vine with huge leaves very dense and climbs on everything.)
So at this point any type of beeper would be useful. Let's face
it, O.S. 61 SF's aren't cheap!!
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| 1054.29 | Been there before, mate! | HPSRAD::AJAI | | Wed Aug 07 1991 16:14 | 9 |
| Oh! Oh!
Did read someone lost an OS SF 61? Well, I lost a ringed pumper version
of the same engine 2 yrs ago. Found the plane 2 months after I lost
control (bad radio), but the engine had broken off the mount, and taken
a flyin' leap. I just got the muffler, and even looked for it with a
rented metal detector, w/o luck.
ajai-who-now-owns-another-SF61
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