Conference vmszoo::rc

    IT IS AN ARF. JUST SEVERAL PIECES. ATTACH FIN TO RUDDER AND SAND.
    SAME FOR ELE/STAB. THEN BOLT INTO ALUMINUM CHANNEL. WING IS FOAM
    45 INCHES. HOLD DOWNS ARE BOLTS ALSO AND JUST SCREW IN. SERVO'S
    ARE ALSO JUST PLACED INTO THE AC AND HELD TIGHTLY BY FRICTION.
    MOTOR MOUNT IS PREFITTED INTO THE PLASTIC FUSE. AND ALSO HELD WITH
    4 SCREWS. GAS TANK IS HELD ON OUTSIDE OF FUSE WITH RUBBERBANDS.
    RX AND BATTERY ARE INSIDE FUSE HELD ON AC WITH RUBBERBANDS ALSO.
    SOUNDS SIMPLE AND IT WAS. IF YOU WOULD LIKE ANYMORE INFO LET ME
    KNOW.
    
    BOB G.

    A "crashproof" plane with a foam wing ...
    
    I must admit I'm a little skeptical !!  Waiting 
    to hear about your first "brick wall" (or grass
    runway).

A friend of mine and I bought a Duraplane for curiosity and an alternative
way to test out new engines before committing them to a new ship.  The Duraplane
will handle from .20 thru .40 size, so that gives a good range for most 
applications.  The planes went together in about 7 hours with one being a 
paint finish and the other heat shrink Econocote.  We've cartwheeled them
and one has seen a full speed vertical dive into the ground with the only 
damage being the 'removal' of the landing gear.  They do indeed withstand
some abuse.  A .20 is the better size for anyone considering this to be
used as a trainer, as a .40 is fairly fast for a beginner.  

The latest issue of RC Video Magazine shows a demo film clip of attempted
self destruction via highspeed cartwheels, nose-in dives, and hard landings.
There was only one way to destroy it, for those that might see the video
in the future, we'll save the punch-(crash)line for later ...

    	If you are a long term user of this notes file you might recall
    that I was asking about the Duraplane a while ago. (229,236,240).
    At that time no one ever heard of it but I bought it anyway. Well
    now it seems to have become a "HOT ITEM". R/C Report just had a contest
    on how best to decorate it. People are turning it into a bipe,
    extending the wing length, adding a 4th channel and who knows what
    else. My own club wants to by 5 of them to try our hands at combat
    flying!!. I just can't believe the interest that has developed in
    this plane. Could it be its so ugly we have a soft spot for it or
    don't care what happens to it? What are your thoughts.
    
    Bob Garozzo

        Re:< Note 746.0 by KYOA::GAROZZO >

                Maybe it's  because they discover it's no good for flying
        and then decide  to  try  decorating  it instead.  Worst piece of
        sh..  after all the ARFs in the world.
        
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             Anker      \_|_/

    Re:-.1
    Anker,
      Does "can't fly" mean "flies poorly", or "flies like a trainer",
    or "is unstable", or "isn't hot enough for an experienced pilot",
    or "has some indesireable flight characteristics"?? 
      I like to build, so I probably would never buy and ARF;however,
    when a beginner sees "virtually indestructable" in the description,
    there is a temptation to look into if further. Could you explain
    a little further?
    
    DougH

        Re:< Note 746.2 by MAILVX::HOOD_DO >

        Sure Doug,
        
                The Duraplane is a poor trainer for a number of reasons:
        
                The landing  gear  configuration  lends  itself poorly to
        learning proper takeoff  techniques since it cannot be taxied (no
        tail wheel).  I consider  takeoff  and  landing  capabilities  as
        being a couple of the most critical parameters of a trainer.
        
                The landing gear is poorly attached  to  the  "fuse"  and
        tends to break off on every landing.    It does help to reinforce
        the gear with a ply plate, but the  effect of a real hard landing
        will become that a big chunc rips out.
        
                The  aluminum rail that's the backbone of the fuse  tends
        to  interfere  with  receiver  reception.   If you fly the  plane
        directly towards yourself you will often get glitches.
        
                Wedging  the  servos  into the rail and not securing them
        better is  very  dangerous.    On  a  hard landing the servos can
        either become loose  of  shift.   The best case is that the plane
        loses trim, worst case you crash.
        
                The plane lends itself  to being flown very hot with a 40
        engine.  Novices should be  encouraged to learn to fly the plane,
        not hang on the prop.
        
                Orientation  is  difficult because of the  shape  of  the
        plane. Novices very easily become confused.
        
                THE  SOLUTION  FOR  A  BEGINNER  IS  NOT  TO    GET    AN
        "INDESTRUCTIBLE"  PLANE, RATHER TO GET A COMPETENT INSTRUCTOR WHO
        CAN ENSURE THE PLANE IS PROTECTED.
        
        Anker

    At the MARC show this spring I saw videos of the Duraplane II. 
    They had it doing cartwheels, nose into soft sod, inverted slam
    to the deck all with no damage.  They did major damage when they
    flew it into a brick wall, however.  If I ever decide to fly something
    with an engine (power pods excluded! ;^), I think I might try one
    of those for being able to try stuff without worry.  I do hear the
    DPII is more indestructable than the DPI.  DPI bent the aluminum
    tube a lot?  
    
    Hope that helps...
    
                             |                      
   \	       	         ____|____                      /   Regards,
    \________________________O_________________________/    Frank.
    

    I can't agree more with Anker about the unsuitability of the duraplane
    as a trainer.  Just to add a couple more comments:
    It is too small.  A guy had one at the last DEC funfly at CMRCM
    and it had to be hand launched and it flew terribly.  It's underpowered
    with a 20 size engine and too fast with a 40.  It is probably better
    at crashing than flying.  Foam wings are hard to repair.
    	There are plenty of better trainers that fly better than they
    crash which is the object of the hobby anyway.
    
    Charlie
    

    Consider the design parameters of the plane: Crash-proof.
    In this case, the result is a plane that crashes well, but
    flies poorly! If you want to practice crashing, this is
    the plane for you. If you want to practice flying, get a
    "real" trainer.

    
    From the ads to the plane itself I am not at all impressed with
    the Duraplane.  Definitely beast, not beauty!
    
    Bill
    
    P.S. does AMA insurance cover RC combat flying?

    Bill, RC combat flying.....
    
    	I don't think that it would cover and accident that was caused
    by "RC Combat" flying. I wouldn't call RC combat a "Safe" activity.
    
    Tom
    
   P.S. 	I wonder how they get away with it in control line.
    	However I can see the day when this activity is flown in a netted
    	globe styled area.
    
    

    	I think that RC combat would be no more dangerous than U-Control
    combat.  It's surely more difficult to score a cut or kill when
    you don't have the line length to reduce the degree of freedom to
    two.  I've seen people try to cut a streamer towed by another
    plane that was making no avoidance attempts. (Flying straight and
    level) with very little success.  Bill Lewis managed to cut a
    streamer once, but us of lesser skill never came close.  If the
    streamers were long enough the chance of a midair is probably not
    as great as in pylon racing for example.  Why would AMA insurance
    not cover this sort of activity if it is done without flying over
    the pits or spectator areas?
    
    Charlie
    

    the problems that were stated early about no taxing capability,
    the landing gear ripping off, and the interfearance. Well I had
    a Duraplane. A couple of the problems were very easily solved. I
    added a tail wheel to mine and I also added a bolt to the landing
    through the aluminum rail. The interfearance problem I could not
    fix. The biggest problem with it was that you very quickly out grow
    it.
    
    Norm
    

    This past summer I had the opportunity to fly the Dura-plane II.
    The one with the bigger wing, constant cord if Im not mistaken.
    Ibelive it was powered with an O.S 25 or 35 and it flew GREAT!
    I was the instructor for this guy so I did the take off's and landing's
    and a fair bit of flying. He had added ailerons and a tail wheel.
    Aside from that I think the rest was stock. Do the previous notes
    only reflect the traits of DP I? Maybe I've missed something.

        Re:< Note 746.11 by DISCVR::JONEILL >

                All of  my  comments refer to the I, I have never seen or
        flown the II.
        
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             Anker      \_|_/

RE: Duraplane
    
    I must put in my nickles worth.  This is going to be good seeing
    I am new to NOTES and R/C flying.
    
    I bought the Duraplane II ARF.   Yes there is a new version still.
    
    The new version has a 396 sq. in. wing a longer fuse and reinforced
    landing gear.  someone mentioned the durability of styrafoam.  This
    version has a rubber coating over the wing  I can vouch for it's
    ability to survive a chain link fence at full throttle!
    
    It is powered by a .20 and has been flown by an experienced flier.
     His comments were very positive about its handling and stability.
     As far as out growing it, the new version has plans on how to add
    alierons.  I figure it will keep me busy for the next year or two.
    
    And since it is so durable, I don't have alot of down time.  WHAT'S
    NOT TO LIKE??

    This past weekend was interesting.  Saturday was way too windy to
    fly, but Sunday was perfect.  My younger brother has been itching
    to try his Duraplane II and prove its DURAbility!
    
    After a pre-flight check, we did a successful hand launch (deep
    grass).  The radio does not have dual rates on it so the sticks
    were very sensitive.  The first flight indicated that an elevator
    adjustment was needed.  The second flight indicated the same.  By
    the third flight everything was perfect.  I handed the Xmitter to
    my brother constantly coaching him through the turns and explaining
    to him "be very gentle on the sticks!"  Next thing I know he is
    nose diving, then going inverted (by this time I thought it was
    all over), but all of a sudden, it comes back out of it and starts
    climbing just over the tree line.  Unfortunately it stalls just
    above the trees.  I grab the radio and apply full throttle trying
    to clear the trees.....but I didn't make it.  The plane went down
    through the trees making more noise than you could imagine.  I figured
    the plane was a total wash.  ONLY A BROKEN PROP!!!!  This plane
    really can take a beating.  
    	We changed the prop and commenced to fly again.  Once I finally
    got him to stop slapping the sticks, his moves were more gracefull.
    He picked up real well being his first time out.  About 5 minutes
    later, he was still going real well, but he started taking the plane
    way down the field over the tree line.  Next thing you know, he
    is nose diving into the trees....he begins to pull out....but catches
    the tip of a pine tree.  The plane does a couple of somersaults
    on the tree and stops, still hanging from the branches.  Well, it
    resulted in another broken prop.  Amazing what this plane can take!
    
    Pros on the Duraflight II -  It can definetly take a beating that
    				 a beginner will inflict.
    
    Cons on the Duraflight II -  It is a HOT plane that is not real
    				 stable for a beginner.  Its heavy and
    				 must maintain a good speed so it won't
    				 stall.

    	Well it came on Friday. By Sunday it was airborne. It's the
    new Durabat. Foam wing has an aluminum channel in center for strength
    and a cutout for air. servo. 
    	Bolts are now in fuse with nuts on the outside (it was reversed
    in dura I and) landing gear is also bolted to channel and plywood
    supports. Motor mount is Hayes with the hole and extra stock for the
    nosegear. Air. stock supplied is not tapered. I went to hobby store
    and bought 1/4 tapered wood. While the new Robart control horns
    are included I still prefered the ball and socket for the air. control
    surface. Its a big angle, 20 degrees, from servo control horn to
    air. horn.  The 2 extra pieces of plastic for drag reduction come
    in halves and must be ca'ed together.
    	The instructions are much better now and well illustrated. When
    I had the Dura I it was just a piece of paper with several photographs
    that were so dark I couldn't see much. You must e-poxy 1/4 stock
    to foam wing to get air. hinged properly. Other than that the plane
    is basically the same as the duraplane II. By the way very little
    dihedral and I think a bit thicker airfoil. 
    	The flying of it was fun, but I still agree you need to be a
    bit more than a beginner. Very responsive in rolls and can turn
    on a dime. I have a new 40Fp in it but ran it very rich for breaking
    in. Needed rt rudder on take off roll.  

    Since I've been helping my brother learn to fly on a Duraplane II
    I thought it only right to comment on its performance.
    
    As a trainer it stinks!  It is too small, heavy and HOT!  Without
    a radio with dual rates (in my brothers case) the pilot must be
    very careful on the sticks.  Beginners are usually not too careful.
    End result is a 1 point landing.
    
    As a bang around plane for a Novice, its ....alright....!
    For an Intermediate flyer, it might be somewhat boring.
    
    But, its not as bad a plane as the first few noters said, of course
    they were discussing the Duraplane I.
    
    Ken

    This file has been hibernating long enough!
    
    To update the abilities of the DURAPLANE since it first came out, I
    truly must say that this plane is perfect for Novice fliers who want
    a plane to "HOT DOG" with.
    
    Soon after my brother bought his we decided to "manufacturer" our own.
    
    He bought a piece of downspout from the local hardware store and I 
    bought a piece of U-channel from Hilson's Hardware.  We ended up with
    5 PVC fuses and 4 U-channels for about $12.00.  We then purchased
    2 Dura-wings from Dura-Craft (these are the coated foam wings), built
    up some tail feathers and installed radio, tank, engine and landing
    gear.  This was definetly cheaper than ordering a kit.
    
    Since then I and my youngest brother (not the brother who initiated
    the DURAPLANE frenzy) decided to install ailerons and paint both
    planes.  He has a OS.35FP in his and I have a OS.40FP in mine.  Man
    can these babies move.  With the ailerons added, there performance
    is right up there with most "HOT" planes.  We are having a ball with
    them. 
    
    And just to be different, I changed my tail-dragger to a trike set-up.
    
    And now my oldest brother just created another one.  That makes 4!
    
    I don't care what anyone says, the DURAPLANE is fun plane to raise hell
    with and not worry about trashing it.
    
    Ken

Well, it all started when I needed an engine a couple of years ago.  I
happened to mentioned it to a local model airplane junkie, (not
Phly'in Phil) and he hauls this Duraplane out of the back room with an
OS 25SFR on it.  $65 bucks for the lot.  So I took it home and removed
the .25 for my Middle Stik and, mindful of the notes here, I stuck the
Duraplane in a dark corner of my shop.  Kicked it around a bit, last
year I tried to sell it at the club swap meet; couldn't even get
$20 for it.

This spring, after not flying for about 2 months I found myself at the
field all alone.  Not to worry, I can fly my PT40 with my eyes
closed--very wrong about that--the vererable PT nuked itself but
good.  So here I am, needing practice, not wanting to rebuild the PT
just yet, and not wanting to fly the squirelly Middle Stik.  I
decided to haul the Duraplane out and give it a try.

Spent a little time on it getting it ready to fly again--the original
owner was very novice at flying *and building*, I think.  I put an
old FS40 (not Surpass) on it which has also been lying around due to
its large size and low power output.

It took a frustrating day of fooling around just trying to taxi
it--ground handling is horrible.  Though if you put in a little up
elevator when you start the takeoff roll, then ease it out just before
you lift off it goes pretty nice.

When I showed up at the field with it there were some remarks about
getting a real plane, but deja-vu with the Colorado Gremlin, when it
took off there were smiles all around.  I had our ace test pilot Ivan
trim it out for me and once I got the sticks, I can say that this is
the plane I've been wanting for years.  A little touchy for a rank
beginner, but just right to keep my fingers in practice.

One comment is that the large tail feathers and short tail moment make
the plane look hard to fly, but it really isn't.   Also, the
downthrust on the engine looks extreme, but its just right.

I've doing some thinking about model airplanes the last couple of
weeks, and late last Sunday 10 feet of downspout dissappeared into my
shop...the Son Of Duraplane is coming...low wing and all.  Just wish
they made that downspout about a half inch bigger all the way around!

    I had purchased a set of skis to try on my Nosen Champ which I never
    got a chance to try because I stuffed the champ.  So I bought a
    duraplane for a quick build to try the skis before the snow melted.
    (this was last winter)  The duraplane is fun, but as previously
    mentioned, probably not well suited for a beginner.  I say that because
    the wing makes it a bit heavy and you have to be moving to get good
    turns from the rudder only.  So it is a bit hot and stalls thoroughly
    when it breaks.  However, on skis it has been a lot of fun to horse
    around with and it loops, rolls and spins great!  I too can vouch for
    its durability, I lost orientation on a turn into the sun about 100
    yards out and it dived into the snow/mud in the field I was flying. 
    Any balsa plane would have been seriously harmed, all the duraplane
    broke was the prop!
    
    Will