Conference vmszoo::rc

        Are you talking HLG as in small free flight balsa & stick model,
        or as in scaled down R/C sailplane? I've had limited experience
        with the former, none with the latter. 

I'm talking about RC, under 60" wingspan.  These models are generally around 
16 oz total weight.  Freeflight methods may also apply to this size RC.  Do 
you ever "hand" launch the freeflight models, or is the stick/rubber band 
the typical launch method? 

I've had a little experience with this type of launch.  For a
balsa "chucker" type glider, you throw it up like you were
throwing a ball; actually, its something you've got to see done,
then its easy.

But I think that you're talking about a RC glider.  Those should
be thrown with the nose slightly below the horizon.  I'm a bit of
a chicken on that one; I use my own method.  What I do is run
into the wind with the glider held level over my head.  When I
feel it lift out of my hand, I give it a little nose down/level
push and send it off.  This works nicely.  You should try HLG off
a small hill; you get a bit of a slope effect, and it can be fun.

Power hand launches are a bit more tricky, because the planes fly
faster.  If you don't get the plane going good before you release
it, it stalls and does a snap roll into the ground.  I had this
with an electric, no fun.  The run-release technique I use for
the RC glider does work for the glider-type power models.

Last night I saw a fellow break all the rules.  He had what
looked like a sweet stick.  He just kind of threw it up javelin
style; thus risking a snap roll.  But the plane kind of staggered
into the air and flew away.  He knew what he was doing though; a
few minutes later I watched him gliding it inverted with the
motor chopped.  The plane just kind of hung there right on the
edge of control. Beautiful.

        Re:< Note 180.3 by CLOSUS::TAVARES "John--Stay low, keep moving" >

                My experience hand launching power planes agrees with .3.
        DO NOT launch  above  the horizon!  I have found that you easiest
        avoid too slow launches,  and  subsequent  stalls  if  you take a
        couple of steps while you  throw.    It's  amazing  how much more
        speed this adds.  It's not  al all recessary to run - and I would
        hate to trip and stick my nose  in  a  prop running at full clip!
        It's also important where you hold the plane.  I hold it slightly
        behind the CG, but if you hold it too  far back you may find that
        the plane flips as you release it!
        
                All of the above is negated by the glider crew  in  CRRC,
        who hand launch at a 30% angle above the horizon to get altitude.
        They must be able to give it down elevator just before it stalls.
        
        Anker

>                My experience hand launching power planes agrees with .3.
>        DO NOT launch  above  the horizon!  I have found that you easiest
>        avoid too slow launches,  and  subsequent  stalls  if  you take a
>        couple of steps while you  throw.    It's  amazing  how much more
>        speed this adds.  It's not  al all recessary to run - and I would
>        hate to trip and stick my nose  in  a  prop running at full clip!
>        It's also important where you hold the plane.  I hold it slightly
>        behind the CG, but if you hold it too  far back you may find that
>        the plane flips as you release it!
>        
>                All of the above is negated by the glider crew  in  CRRC,
>        who hand launch at a 30% angle above the horizon to get altitude.
>        They must be able to give it down elevator just before it stalls.
>        
>        Anker

No experience yet - but I have read somewhere (perhaps in my Chuperosa
directions) that you should launch with the elbow locked at approximately
a 45 degree angle and have lots of elevator throw so that you can pitch
it level just before it tops out and stalls.  Makes since to me but I will
do level launches for the first few till it is trimmed.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    The Dodgson tape has some outrageous hand-launch sequences!  
    Like HL a 2-meter ship at about 45-50 degrees, fly it around for 4-5
    minutes, catch it and relauch it for another flight. Kinda makes you
    want to throw away your high-start!
                          |                                      
\                       __|__                       /      Regards-
 \________________________O________________________/       Frank.    

    

                My note  was  strictly on hand launcing power planes.  Al
        sometimes creates confusing misunderstandings when he moves notes
        out of their original context.
        
                I stand by my  power  plane  hand launching instructions.
        You need airspeed and launching  above  the horizon converts what
        precious little kinetic energy you have  into  useless  potential
        energy.
        
                As far as gliders are concerned you exactly want to trade
        airspeed for altitude, and therefore you launch at an angle.  The
        trick  is  to understand when the plane reaches minimal  airspeed
        and  be  able to level out just as this happens.    Interestingly
        enough,  with  a  reflexing  airfoil  you  hand  launch  with the
        trailing edge reflexed and flip it into the thermal attitude when
        leveling off.   I  found  it  very hard in the beginning to avoid
        stalling out, but now  I  seem  to do OK.  Of course nothing like
        what is on the Dodgsen tape.
        
                      _ 
                     / |
           _----____/==|
         /__====------- 
             |-          
            /              
           /               
         Hang in there!      
                           
             Anker           

Hopefully this is an appropriate place for this, if not feel free to move it.

I recently finished a Top-Flite Wristocrat HLG. I've been flying it at the park
near my home and really enjoy it. It lets me fly most anytime I want and is a
great way to relax in the evenings without all the mess and bother involved in
getting my power planes to the field and in the air.

My question is this; What does a good launch look like? I've been tossing it at
between about 30 and 45 degrees and gaining maybe 50 feet of altitude. From
there I can usually make one large circle and land back near myself so I don't
have to walk too far to fetch the plane. I did catch a "bump" once and was able
to make two full circles making that my longest flight. I launch with full down
trim and push in some down elevator as it approaches the top of its climb out.
If I don't do this I get a little more altitude, but it stalls off and looses
about half of the total altitude recovering from the stall.

Does it sound like I'm on the right track or am I missing something? I'd like to
get somewhat longer flights and I'm sure that simply throwing it regularly will
help by strengthing my arm. Is there anything else I should do/not do?

Thanks,

Randy

does flying gliders and power make you bi? (bi-aerial that is)

    re 701
    
    What does a good launch look like ? If you are Brian Agnew or Joe
    Wurts it looks like the plane shoots vertically over your head,
    up to ~150 ft. then makes a perfect square corner just when the
    airspeed is perfectly balanced between stall and control response,
    then flies off without losing a millimeter of altitude, then they
    repeat this performance every launch.
    
    For us mere mortals it's simply enough to try for 45-60 degree launch
    angle. Definitely do not use a lot of down trim on the launch. Let
    the nose go up as steeply as it wants, but not to the point of looping
    of course. Push the nose over with the stick while you still have
    good flying speed. Your stalling tendencies point to flying it over
    the top with too little air speed. 
    At first it's easier to push over more gradually and get a feel
    for the stall point. Altitude will suffer but eventually you'll
    get steeper in the climb and able to transition to level flight
    in one fuselage length.
    Sometimes I like to do zoom launches; climb out at 20 degrees, the
    speed stays up longer of course, then when the plane is well out
    in front, pull up abruptly, let it zoom then level off. This gives
    practice in squaring the corner because the plane is out where you
    can see it better. In more breezy conditions this technique can
    get you as high as a more vertical launch, and it's easier on the
    arm.
    
    Terry

    I agree with the last couple replies. I'll add a little more. Warm up
    your arm before a throwing session. Don't just haul off and wail on it,
    build up to the hard throws. The first time I ever flew my Flinger, my
    arm ached for 3 days.
    
    As for length of flight, you should eventually get more than just one
    turn with the Wristocrat, especially if there's good lift around. Even
    in dead air, I can do  one or two loops and several turns before
    landing. When the air is good, the sky's the limit!
    
    I think the best part of HLG flying is the challenge of finding lift.
    With the plane so close, you can more easily see it react to a thermal,
    and you can even feel the effects of the lift as it moves through. The
    small size of the plane allows it circle very tightly in the tiny
    thermals near the ground. You also get LOTS more landing practice,
    which comes in handy.
    
    My personal opinion is: Keep the plane LIGHT! I think that's the single
    most important feature of a good HLG for catching thermals from
    handlaunch.
    
    Dave
    

    
    
          I remember from one of the books I read ( not an rc one )
       about a technique that was used by some hunters , of many years
       ago to increase the distance, accuracy and power of useing
       spears. I think this "invention" was refered to as an ATLATLE ??.
       From the description it sounded like some sort of 10-12 inch
       extension of the throwing arm , with a cradle on one end to hold the
       spear and a handle to grab onto with. I think the theory was that
       as you threw the spear it would extend the moment of your arm and
       more than double the speed etc of the spear. Now of course this was
       just a fictional story ( Jean Auels , The mammoth hunters ) But it
       sounded logical. I have had this idea kicking around for some time 
       and now that I have a set of Predator plans I might give it a try.
    
         What do you think?. Is this just some kinda story? or maybe I'd
      shed the wing and wind up really throwin a spear , RC , accurate ,
      useless for huntin , and expensive.
    
     kevin p
    
    

    Kevin,
    
    	Not fiction at all but rather fact.  If Mr Chad of Aussie fame
    were still with us I'd suspect he'd be able to fill us in with all
    of the design details.  I know for a fact that this device is still
    used in the bush in Australia (sp).  the one'd I've seen are a length
    of stick with a small cup carved into one end.  Like a small laddle.
    The end of the spear rests in the cup ane the spear and stick are held
    in the throwing hand. As you throw the spear you release the spear
    while still holding onto the stick.  This does (as you stated) lengthen
    the moment arm.  Funny thing is I talked to Jimmy Reith about this
    very subject a fe weeks back.  
    
    	It would be an interesting device to try.  I wonder if there is
    anything in the AMA rules that would keep you from using it?
    
    
    Tom

    >> Funny thing is I talked to Jimmy Reith about this very subject a few
    weeks back.                   ^^^^^

    
    
       Thanks for the reply Tom, Now when I finish the Predator I'll
     have an experiment to try. Maybe instead of a cup to hold the
     "spear" i'll fashion something to look like a finger? , then what
     can the AMA say about that! 8-)>.
    
     kevin p
    

    Unless you're one of those "lucky lefties", you're going to have to
    figure out what to do with it as you grab for the elevator stick with
    that same hand. The other difference I see from a manual launch is that
    you can't "feel" the contact with the plane. When I launch mine, I
    determine the launch point and release my grip on the fuselage sides.
    With no direct plane contact, that might be tricky. I think the first
    problem will be the biggest. You've only got a second to get control on
    the stick to maximize the transition at the top.
    
    (Lefties have the advantage of throwing with one hand while the other
    hand is on the stick)
    
    If you don't watch cartoons (with your kids 8^) this comment might be
    lost on you but I always hear the phrase "Go go Gadget launch" when
    someone brings this topic up 8^)

    
       All I can picture is at the next HLG contest, there will be all
    these guys with left arms that are twice as long as their right one,
    dragging a wooden hand on the ground, and wearing custom made long
    sleeve shirts with the left sleeve twice as long as the right one! :)
    
                                                          DW2

    I was in The Fair (local discount store) this weekend and in the craft
    section they have a glove that's been stuffed on a piece of dowel
    called a "Helping Hand". They're used for cleaning cobwebs out of the
    corners you can't reach. I started laughing when I saw it and had to
    explain why. 8^)
    

        Re:   <<< Note 127.17 by ZENDIA::REITH "Jim Reith DTN 226-6102 - LTN2-1/F02" >>>

                The Australian  Aboriginal  gadget is called a "Woomara".
        It's a flat  stick  with  a  barb at one end (pointed towards the
        middle of the stick)  and  a  nice  round hand hold at the other.
        You lay a spear on the stick with the barb hooked into the end of
        the spear and then throw it  by using the Woomara as an extention
        of the arm.  Interesting it doesn't create the stability problems
        alluded to.  I have one at home and was tempted to bring it along
        to the HLG contest.
        
        Anker

    Re: .-1
    
    ...which is why the old British rocket testing range in Australia was
    called Woomera. Subtle joke that few people ever understood :-)
    
    - Brian