| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1119.1 | Details on the FIESTA | GVA05::BERGMANS | | Thu Sep 28 1989 15:57 | 21 |
| The Fiesta is a 3.2m sailplane. The original kit came out with a
structure wing and latter came out with a foam/veneered wing. I
believe that this one is still in production.
A friend of mine still has one with the structure wing.
Full four channels are needed including spoilers. I am somewhat
surprsised to read in the previus answer that it was flwon in F3B
because it does not really have the airfoils to go fast.
The same wings (the foam/veneer) are now used on a scale model
of the LS3 (I have fly one myself)
If you are interested in more details send me a mail to BERGMANS
@GMO and I will dig into my documentation to get more info for you.
Regards.
one
|
| 1119.2 | artickes on the FIESTA | GVA05::BERGMANS | | Mon Oct 02 1989 07:59 | 14 |
| Hi,
It is me again. I was looking through my collection of articles
over the week end and I found two test articles on the FIESTA. One
with build up wings and the other one with foam/veneer wings.
However the two articles are in french. I can send you a copy if
you are interested.
Regards
Jean-Paul
|
| 1119.3 | Announcing first successful flights | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Mon Jun 11 1990 09:49 | 68 |
| 1119.4 | Spoilers for the FIESTA | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Mon Jun 11 1990 14:24 | 22 |
| The FIESTA has a great glide slope, especially close to the ground. So,
in any case it should have spoilers.
Since I was not very happy with the single height 350 mm Schempp-Hirth
spoilers I had on my old FIESTA with built-up wing (they were
recommended by Multiplex before the double-height version was
available), I chose the double height spoilers with 350 mm length this
time. Multiplex recommends the 250 mm for planes up to 3.5 m wingspan
(FIESTA has 3.24).
Double height is a lot more effective. Maybe because the area is
further out of the boundary layer, maybe because they don't have the
holes the single height version has. The 250 mm units probably would
have done their job, with the 350 mm version the ship literally drops
out of the sky.
But who knows, there might be a thermal one day, or a slope with
restricted landing area, or the electric version with about 50 % more
weight that will make me happy to have the bigger spoilers. From todays
point of view, I would recommend the 250 mm / double height version.
You can always increase their influence by increasing the airspeed if
you need to escape a thermal that would make a piano fly.
|
| 1119.5 | Congratulations-Fiesta SF | USRCV1::BLUMJ | | Tue Jul 17 1990 11:42 | 12 |
| Hartmut,
Congratulations on completing and flying your new Fiesta. Your
story is encouraging, as I will be completing mine as soon as I get my
Graupner UHU done. I have the single height spoilers and like you,
plan to place ailerons and rudder on separate controls. Did you paint
the fuselage, and what did you use to cover the wings? Best wishes for
many great flights.
Regards,
Jim
|
| 1119.6 | Fiesta damaged and grounded for a while :(:(:( | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Tue Jul 31 1990 16:16 | 59 |
| Hi Jim,
too funny that you obviously have the same two (german!) planes that I
do. Two answer your questions briefly: I used Oracover, a strong film,
to cover the wings. Needs lots of heat, but works well. Don't know the
brand name in the US, it was talked about somewhere else before. They
had some ads recently, saying 'XXX is back or so'. I'll try to dig up
the note.
No, I didn't paint the fuse (yet). I just sanded the seam a bit, and
applied yellow and red areas to the nose and a bit differently to wings
and tail feathers, similar to Multiplex' suggestion in their catalogue.
Well, now for the sadder part: the Fiesta is (was) damaged badly and
grounded. Two weeks ago, I had my first time on a slope in a rather
strong wind _AND_ thermals. It is hard to describe. I did only one flight,
but that meant two hours, 15 minutes! I just had a ball, tried loops,
rolls, turns, and, most important, tried to center thermals. Got a nice
sunburn, but really enjoyed it. Then came the time to land, and I got
caught in the turbulances. The plane disappeared in a valley, and I went
to the site. Didn't expect too bad a damage, but it was enough. The rudder
obviously had hit a hard spot and was damaged, both wings have dents at
the tips, one is damaged in the root area near the trailing edge. The
fuse broke from the rear end of the canopy down to the seam and on the
nose, the top seam and then down about an inch on the left side.
Okay, things looked worse than they really were. I hope to complete the
repairs next weekend by the latest. But I learned a bit (hopefully).
Here is a list of the mistakes I made (it usually takes more than one
for a real crash):
- while building:
- leave out the carbon fiber roving I put around the
canopy hole on my first Fiesta. I am sure it helped
a lot, I put it in during the repair this time.
- putting in too big a front former (not sanded enough).
The fuse was under stress, and 'exploded' at impact.
Corrected this one, too.
- while flying:
- not asking experts that were familiar with the slope
and sat around for advise. They would have known about
where the turbulances are worst and how to fight them.
- not having enough height while crossing the slope edge.
The turbulance put me down before I knew it (with the
plane getting slower in respect to the wind). You have
to come in _very high_, especially if you have spoilers
to help you coming down fast when _you_ want to.
I hope the Fiesta will be back in the air next week. Until then, I'll
keep enjoying the trusty small Elektro-UHU...
Best regards,
Hartmut
|
| 1119.9 | Oh well! Fix it! | USRCV1::BLUMJ | | Thu Aug 02 1990 12:25 | 13 |
| Hartmut,
Sorry to hear about the crash. Good luck in your repair
attempts, the Fiesta does not appear to be an easy ship to fix.
I probably will be starting again on my Fiesta this fall, I am
nearly done with the Elektro-UHU and looking forward to flying
it. Let me know how the repair progresses.
Sincerely,
Jim
|
| 1119.10 | Good progress on repairs | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Thu Aug 02 1990 13:56 | 16 |
| Jim,
good new from the repair shop. The repair of the FIESTA is nearly
finished and worked out well. Although it took some time (removing all
RC equipment _with_ servo trays, formers etc., everything went pretty
well. I put a carbon fibre roving around the canopy-hole this time and
made sure that the formers don't stress the fuse through tension. If I
needed to, I could have the plane flyable with about further 30 minutes
work (install and check servos, servo travel, screw in tow hook, epoxy
rudder in place). But I prefer do finish it first. I need to paint the
front of the fuselage to hide the former cracks. With decals, I think I
will need the weekend. Plan to have the ship ready to go again by
Monday at the latest.
Regards,
Hartmut
|
| 1119.11 | More Fiesta Questions | USRCV1::BLUMJ | | Fri Aug 03 1990 12:33 | 17 |
| Hartmut,
I have another question regarding the Fiesta. Approximately 2
years ago, John Lupperger of Model Airplane News built and test flew
the Fiesta for his monthly column. He felt the ship was so pitch
sensitive due to the lifting stab, that it was very difficult to fly.
So difficult in fact that he did not wish to fly it at all! He later
mentioned that he had flipped the stabilators over(using the right stab
on the left side and vice-versa) and claimed this completely tamed the
beast! The ship flew so well in fact that he mentioned this in a later
magazine column and said he was planning to use it for his thermal-
duration entry in the upcoming season. What can you tell me about
this?
Sincerely,
Jim
|
| 1119.12 | Didn't test around pitch sensitivity yet, but will | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Fri Aug 03 1990 15:04 | 38 |
| Jim
in fact, I have always wondered whether it would be a good idea
to try a flying stab upside down, but never had the courage to
try it out. But since I know that the elevator on a stable flying
plane in horizontal flight produces 'negative lift', it should
make sense to turn the flying stab upside down. I just have no idea
at what angle to start with. Bottom of elevator perpendicular to
fin trailing edge - as it is designed on the FIESTA - is so
wonderfully easy to adjust and check... I might be willing to try
this idea now that you encouraged me, I'll keep you posted (maybe
I will wait until I find a guy with a tow plane who is able to
bring me up on top of his plane. I am really anxious about being
close to terra firma and not knowing how far I'm out of trim...).
Yes, the FIESTA is pitch sensitive, but not that much that it would
spoil my fun flying it. In fact, I prefer to have a reponsive plane
and try to work with only little stick wiggling. In case of emergency
there is still a lot more deflection available for me. I already
thought whether exponential throw would be nice to have for the FIESTA
(is that good enough a reason for a new radio? probably not...) or
whether I just need to getting used to it. Since I am not too
experienced (yet) with big gliders, I can't compare it's behaviour.
And I really need to test fly it a bit more in calm weather when I
can distinguish between gust response and control response.
Summary: - The FIESTA is responsive (and pitch sensitive),
but very well controllable.
- I'll try with different deflections in smoother air.
- Maybe I'll even try to fly the flying stab upside down.
- I'll keep an eye on this issue. As soon as I find out
something new, I'll let you know.
Best regards,
Hartmut
|
| 1119.13 | Why sure | CSC32::M_ANTRY | | Fri Aug 03 1990 20:09 | 5 |
| I fly a Mueller King and the stab on it is flown upside down, in other
words the under-camber of the stab faces up and not down like on the
wing. I have flown it both ways and it is not that much differnt
either way just flys a little bit stabeler when it is installed
undercamber up (Anti Lifting)
|
| 1119.14 | "Lifting stab": fact or fallacy? | HPSPWR::WALTER | | Sun Aug 05 1990 03:42 | 25 |
| [In the interest of sparking a technical discussion...]
At the last Charles River RC meeting, a club member gave a quick talk
on aerodynamics. No heavy equations, just common sense stuff. He also
talked about his pet peeves, various misunderstandings about
aerodynmaic theory. One of them was (and here's the relevance to this
note discussion...) "lifting stabs".
If I remember what he said correctly, all stabs are airfoils. Even a
flat plate generates lift when it's at an angle to the airflow. For a
given aircraft design, some amount of lift (or negative lift) is needed
by the stab to maintain level flight. Whether the stab airfoil is a
flat plate or some recognizable curved surface, that doesn't change
the force that is needed for a given flight attitude.
What I inferred from this is that a "lifting stab" operates the same as
a flat stab, with perhaps a different drag for a given lift. And maybe
the incidence of the stab changes relative to the wing to achieve the
same level flight.
So what is the net effect of using a stab with a non-flat airfoil?
Maybe lower drag? Any comments?
Dave
|
| 1119.15 | Flying Stab Problems | USRCV1::BLUMJ | | Mon Aug 06 1990 17:13 | 25 |
| My comments on the lifting stab of the Fiesta were paraphrased from
a review done in Model Airplane News(June '87 I think) by John
Lupperger. He explicitely stated that the Fiesta was nearly impossible
to fly due to pitch sensitivity. Apparently applying down elevator
caused the ship's nose to tuck and the lifting stab only acted to
exacerbate the situation(ie steepening the dive). He went on to say
that he was forced to use the spoilers in lieu of the elevator when a
downward correction was necessary to prevent this steep diving
situation. Mr. Lupperger then went to great lengths to explain the
dramatic change which occurred when he flipped the stab upside down.
According to him the Fiesta's flight characteristics completely changed
for the better. He even mentioned this again in his column in a later
issue of MAN. Considering these columnists really never say anything
bad about the products they review, I am led to believe the situation
with the Fiesta must have been quite serious. Lupperger apparently has
a fair amount of Sailplane experience as I have seen pictures of him
flying other high performance German Sailplanes (including the
Multiplex Alpina). Again he so liked the flight characteristics of
the Fiesta with the stab reversed that he claimed he was going to use
it as his contest ship for the upcoming year.
Sincerely,
Jim
|
| 1119.16 | FIESTA not yet finished due to bad paint | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Wed Aug 08 1990 11:55 | 36 |
|
Progress on FIESTA repairs is halted. I didn't manage to get it done
last weekend. All that is left is the pint job. But I obviously ran
into a bad can of spray paint. After the first try (Saturday night) I
thought I just had not shaken the can enough, but yesterday found out
that it is really bad (not really white, not really coating, but prone
to have drops running...). Now that I washed off everything twice I
decided that it's time to get a better paint. Since it seems to become
a major job, I thought, well why not get the electric fuse done and
paint them altogether. So I made good progress on that one last night.
Trimmed the nose (with a saw, ugly on a nice fiberglass glider fuse) to
the spinner diameter, made a new front former, filed the tubings for
the wing steels and their location in the fuse and test-assembled
everything to find out where to locate the receiver and the servos to
make up for a minimum of lead. I located the battery (12 cells, 2
sixpacks) right behind the main spar of the wing, but since the Keller
motor is quite heavy, I will have to put the RC equipment as far back
as possible. It seems that I will still need to put some lead into the
tail.
This thing is really impressive. With the next two weeks of vacation, I
hope to have it done afterwards.
Now, will I paint both fuses together? Not sure yet, today the weather
looks so great (cold, after cold front going through, sunny and lots of
clouds that seem to indicate thermals) that I am tempted to take the
time and throw the RC stuff back in, check the CG and go out flying.
There is time for paint jobs when there is other weather. But then
again, I need nice weather for painting, too, since I must spray
outside... Well, we'll see... Will keep you posted on any progress.
Best regards,
Hartmut
|
| 1119.17 | FIESTA is back in the air | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Fri Aug 10 1990 09:02 | 47 |
|
Yesterday I was out with Bernd to try winch-launches with the
FIESTA. Yes, I decided to get the plane airborne again and go
out flying with the nice weather we currently have. I'll do
the painting together with the electric fuse once that one is
done (hopefully within the next two weeks).
We had a great time. Most flights were fairly short (about 3 to
5 minutes), but then Reinhard (who joined us without a plane this
time) said: "You have to plan a flight in advance." Okay, so we
did and I managed to have a 24 minutes flight, Bernd even achieved
over 40 minutes. We found that the limit is not so much the per-
formance of the plane or the weather condition (at least not
yesterday), but flying skills and concentration.
As long as the ship is a handful for you (and the FIESTA for me
certainly is), you will be thrown out of a thermal more frequently,
experience tip stalls, react nervously etc. So the ticket is to
train, train, train...
Still didn't have the courage to turn the stab upside down, but I
certainly will one day.
I am not really sure (yet?) that the winch is that much better than
my MAGNUM hi-start. Achievable height is not too different, you need
to plan your flight in both cases if you want to stay up for more
than one round. With a rubber hi-start, I can run a few steps and
release the plane with enough airspeed for stable flight. On the
winch, when you build up tension until the winch stalls, you have
a good acceleration in the first moment, but then, when the tension
of the rope is gone, there is this moment when the plane slows down
until the winch picks up speed. This moment always gives a bad
feeling to my stomach (as if I was _in_ the plane). And, once
the plane leaves my hand on a rubber hi-start, I just have to
concentrate on controlling and not stepping on thi &@##-winch-switch.
Oh well, maybe I just need to get used to it...
After Bernd had left (with the winch), I had four more flights
with the Elektro-UHU. How different that is! It's just a fun plane
for me, since I am always on top of that one. Not much to learn,
though, but nice relaxing to end a wonderful afternoon.
Have a nice flying time. I'll be off for two weeks vacation!
Best regards,
Hartmut
|
| 1119.18 | More Fiesta Questions | USRCV1::BLUMJ | | Mon Aug 13 1990 17:39 | 11 |
| Hartmut,
What material did you use to cover the Fiesta wings? I was
looking at them this weekend and noticed they are really quite under-
cambered. It seems that if heat shrink covering is used it would be
tough to keep it from stretching across the bottom of the wing spaning
the undercambered part, hence distorting the undercambered shape.
Thanks,
Jim
|
| 1119.19 | ORACOVER applied with a heat gun | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Tue Aug 28 1990 15:33 | 19 |
| Jim,
as said earlier, I used ORACOVER heat shrink film for the wings of my
FIESTA. I worked with an iron to fix the film at leading and trailing
edge, and then used a heat gun and a cotton cloth to work the areas. No
big deal to cover the undercambered wing this way, since you can
stretch ORACOVER (and probably any other film) after you heated it.
Just be careful since film that is already attached to the wood will
stand a lot more heat (to eliminate wrinkles) than it will as long as
it is free over the undercambered part.
Using the heat gun helps to not scratch the surface of the film, and
you will not damage the wood underneath with a soft cloth (or cotton
wool) either. I used a commercial heat gun (not a special covering
type), but it is an electronic type with temperature control. With a
little practice, it worked just great.
Regards,
Hartmut
|
| 1119.20 | Announcing successful flights of Electro-FIESTA | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Mon Sep 10 1990 14:41 | 38 |
|
Yesterday, I finally had a chance for two 'proof-of-concept' test
flights of the FIESTA-electro. It is amazing to fly a bird this big
on a quiet electric motor. It climbs very nicely, but glides pretty
fast. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any thermal, so flight
times were limited due to battery conditions (batteries weren't used
for about five weeks). Flight times were about 5 and 8 minutes. The
five minutes flight was that short because of a stall while trying to
circle. I needed a lot of height to recover (but had the fortune that
there was enough available...).
Some technical data for those who didn't read the previous notes:
Wingspan: 3.24 m (128 in)
Weight: ca. 3.30 kg (116.4 oz)
R/C channels: Rudder, Elevator, Ailerons, Spoilers, Motor Controller
Motor: Robbe/Keller 40/10
Prop: Graupner 28/18 (11x7) folding prop
Battery: 12 cells SANYO 1200 SCR
Motor Controller: Danzer UL22
I'm looking forward to get more experience with this bird. I like the
feature that I can just swap fuses and have either a glider or a motor-
glider. Details may be optimized (playing around with other props etc).
But for now, I took the R/C gear out last night to get the finish of the
fuselage done. And I managed to get an old, self-built peak-detection
charger working reliably last night. Since my nice computer controlled
fast charger will only charge up to 7 cells, I am now able to charge
both 6 cell packs at once and save some time. Now if I only could afford
a second bunch of batteries...
Holm- und Rippenbruch,
Hartmut
|
| 1119.21 | Jim, please don't give it away!! | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Wed Dec 12 1990 12:08 | 28 |
| 1119.22 | Fiesta Servo woes | USRCV1::BLUMJ | | Fri Mar 15 1991 12:17 | 16 |
| Hartmut,
You hit the nail on the head- servo installation in the Fiesta
was not well thought out! The placement of the wing blade locking
device really makes servo installation difficult. Currently I do not
own a computer radio which would allow differential mixing of the
ailerons if they were installed directly into the wings, although
this would probably be the way to go. This ship has been sitting
around now for over three years, which is why I figured someone
should own it who can get it into the air. That is the problem
with an expensive kit, you really think twice before you start
hacking up those beautiful wings to make the thing work!
Regards,
Jim
|
| 1119.23 | FIESTA-E is finally finished and airborne | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Tue Aug 20 1991 06:23 | 28 |
|
Last Thursday, I did some more flights on the Electro-FIESTA. I only
got to the field pretty late (around 5:30 PM). The fuse is now
sprayed, and I have a second set of batteries as well (the new 1400
SCR in this case).
I was very happy and impressed by the way it flew. Because of the
weight, I must pay attention not to make it too slow (avoid tip
stalls!!!), but the glide angle is super! On the second flight (the
first with the new battery set = reduced capacity) I managed to find
some lift and flew for 30 minutes. I wimped out a bit since the
concentration on watching the plane at a distance needs some more
practice. But I have an idea what the plane is capable of doing, and
I enjoyed it a lot. When the sun started to set and become orange, it
was just a sight that I often dream of: A nice white glider turning
orange in the last sunbeams... I really like it!
It is certainly not an F3E ship - at least I hesitate to push it too
hard with about 50 % more weight than it was designed for. But it
certainly thermals (and climbs!) a lot better than the UHU, and the
distance it can cover with it's ground speed gives a lot more chances
to find lift.
Now I will try to find whether I can still improve with other props.
Best regards,
Hartmut
|
| 1119.24 | How do you adjust your stab? | KBOMFG::KLINGENBERG | | Wed May 20 1992 16:26 | 18 |
| Jim,
I'm happy to read that you kept the FIESTA and are glad you did! It's
really a nice plane, I like it very much myself. The only thing I don't
understand (does your wife read the notesfile?) is why you needed the
computer radio. Can you give me a good justification? I just soldered a
V-cable for the ailerons and built some mechanical differentiation in
(servo arm not perpendicular). Seems to work well with my 13 year old
radio (although I'd like adjustable differentiation, crow mode, mixing,
etc. etc.).
How did you adjust your stab upside down? I'm afraid of just turning it
around now that it's trimmed okay. Is the flat bottom (top now) still
perpendicular to the rudder hinge line as the instructions recommend,
or did you need a different angle?
Best regards,
Hartmut
|
| 1119.25 | Landing the electric Fiesta | LEDS::KLINGENBERG | | Wed Nov 18 1992 20:42 | 48 |
| Jim,
I took this to the Fiesta notes since I really think it belongs there.
Hope you'll find it.
> I looked throught the old Fiesta notes where you discuss
> your Fiesta/E-Fiesta. How difficult is the electric Fiesta to
> Land? The Calibra and Arcus with their short wingspans have been
> quite forgiving of my oft less than perfect landings.
Not a big deal. Since I anticipated the higher wingloading, mass and
speed, I already built it with the longer spoilers from Multiplex (350
mm instead of the recommended 250). With these, the glide slope is very
easy to control. What amazes at first sight is the good glide angle at
a fairly high speed. I remember one landing I set up with a friend
watching: I was quite far downwind (with some wind that day) when I
turned final. He said something like:'Sure you're gonna make it???' In
fact, I had to fully deply the spoilers when it arrived at the field to
get down.
The fields I usually fly off are pretty big and open, though. I think
CMRCM is the smallest field I've ever flown at. Maybe New Boston was
worse - a lot bigger, but trees all around close by. No problem in either
case. Assuming that crow is as effective as spoilers, you should have no
trouble. If the grass is slippery (wet or frozen), consider it will take
a while until it comes to rest. On the last landing at CMRCM with dew on
grass it slid about 50 yards. That looks like the real ones! I love it,
just make sure you touch down early enough.
> Last summer while landing my Fiesta on the slope, I applied a little
> too much up elevator and the ship ballooned up allowing the wind to get
> under one tip. This all happened at about 2 ft. off the ground, so
> the damage was minimal- several stress cracks all along the fuselage,
> and the rudder was separated from the hinges.
From my (very limited) experience, flying the glider in all the gusts
and vortexes of a slope is a lot more difficult. The mass of a big
electric will make it more stable, the higher flying speed more
maneuverable. The plug in wing arrangement gave me no trouble yet. Did
you follow Multiplex' advice and drilled holes in the front part of the
airfoil on the fuselage and put a 8 mm dowel pin in there? You don't
even have to glue it, but it make sure in case the wings want to move
forward, the dowel is getting the load and not the fuselage.
Did I cover your questions? Any more detail/encouragement needed:-)?
Best regards,
Hartmut
|