Conference vmszoo::rc

    Steve Matscherz
    FS Engineer, Pittsburgh, PA
    
    I currently have two boats one is a Windy swamp boat. It is powered
    by a reliable K&B 20 sportster. I also have a PaynPak hydroplane.
    It is powered by a Enya 45. 
      The Four foot chris craft sure would be something to see. I know
    that they run boats up by Lowell, (I heard that from a guy who ran
    a hobby shop in Lowell) usually on Sundays.
    
                   Steve M in the Pitts.....

    
    Does anyone know of a group of RC Boaters in the Mass.area?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Andy  
    

    I have a Dumas Hot Shot 21 and a K&B .21 outboard that I picked up as
    part of a sale package of a person getting out of R/C.... 
    
    I have an airtronics 2 channel (surface freq) radio that I have
    installed.  However, I am very displeased with the way the linkages 
    worked out.  I don't have the plans and I have tried using the setup
    as I bought it....
    
    If there is someone out there that has one of these or seen one up
    close, I would really appreciate talking to you about it or better
    yet, getting together and seeing it.
    
    If you can help (or know someone that can) please call me...
    
    dtn 264-2497
    home 603-889-4366
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

    Hi,
    
    I take it the Hot Shot 21 is the 35" glass model ?  If your interested
    I'll be glad to take a look at it and maybe come up with some
    alternative methods. Is the problem with the steering linkage or
    throttle ?  Well, I'm in Hudson @ HLO and if your somewhat near
    I would be glad to help you if I can.  I haven't yet had an outboard
    engine and would be very interested in checking this out.  Also,
    I believe there is certain hardware involved in outboard rigging
    but I don't have a reference here.
                                       
    Happy Sailing (Soon I hope!)
    
    Andy

    Sorry, looking in Tower Talk, I have mis-represented the boat...
    It is the Hot Shot IV - 28.5" made from wood.
    
    The discontent is with both.  Perhaps the problem is that I am trying
    to use the hardware (linkages) that came with the boat.  
    
    And I thought that there was no room in the SS-40 with 5 servos and the
    smoke system!!  This boat is the real definition of TIGHT.
    
    I am located in Merrimack NH and work in Hudson, NH...  I will give you
    a call if I can't find someone a little closer...
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

    Well, I am happier with the linkage setup, now that I have replaced 
    the old stuff...
    
    So, last night I decided to try to run it in the kiddie pool that we
    have...  Boy, does that engine scream!! when it starts up.  Even at
    idle it seemed like the boat would fly...  It sure seems like it is
    going to explode getting this many RPMs...  Is a boat supposed to 
    turn this kind of RPMs??  Any suggestions on how to adjust the needle
    valve and hold onto the boat and not get soaked at the same time??
    
    1 other question...  Is there a special tools to remove the plug from
    a K&B .21 marine engine (with the water cooled head)??  I had to remove
    the head to get at the plug, as there is not enough room around the
    plug to fit the 4 way wrench, nut driver or socket...
    
    cheers,
    jeff

    
    Yeah! Sounds great!  I don't know if it is supposed to turn that
    many rpm's but would guess yes.  As far as removing the glow plug
    I'd try grinding down the outside parameter of an old nut driver.

    My deep "V" 60 should be in action this weekend, along with the
    big swamp buggy.
    
    Happy Sailing,
    
    Andy                         
    

    Wooooooooaaaaaaaa....
    
    I had a RC boat at one time and I was under the impression that you
    NEVER.......NEVER......run the engine at more than an idle with the
    prop unloaded(ie not in the water).  There is no load on the prop and
    we all know that a 2 cycle engine will rev and rev until it does
    explode.  (I know....I did it once).
    
    Yes, I had a K&B outboard and I had to grind down a socket to fit for
    the glow plug.
    
    re:-1  It sounds like you had the boat in the water while you were
    adjusting but I dont know if holding it stationary while reving the
    engine is a good idea.   The way I tuned mine was.
    1. Start engine....set lowspeed idle and just blip the throttle to see
    how it would do.
    2. When it would not stall I would then throw it into the water and
    see how it does.
    3. Then the engine would quite and I would cuss and wait for it to
    drift back to shore.
    4. Go back to either 1. or 2.
    
    Good luck and keep us posted.

    I am starting it at the edge of a kiddie pool.  As soon as it is going
    and I have the clip off, I place it in the water, so it is being run 
    under load.....
    
    I can't get it to idle or run at high speed...
    
    How about this....  Does it matter what kind of load I put on it??
    What if I were to pull the engine off the boat, replace the starter 
    cone with a prop and place it on my test stand??  Other than having to
    watch for 2 props, is there any reason that this would not work??
    
    Would an idle and high end set up this way be close to being right 
    with the airplane prop off??
    
    thanks,
    jeff
    

    Boy I dont know.  The K&B that I had and had ran too fast with no load
    would do about the same.  I have no idea, I just bought a new engine
    and was more careful with the new one.
    
    Anyone else have any ideas.
    
    You should be able to start it at idle and adjust the main needle valve
    to get it to run and then work with the Low speed idle adjustment to
    get it so it will idle reliably, you know so it wont speed up and die
    or load up and die.  Then at that point you can blip the throttle very
    quickly and see if it is too rich and loading up.  At that point you
    will probably want to toss it the water and go.  On mine when I opened
    it up if it would start to lean out and die or load up and die at full
    throttle you could close the throttle and if it was too lean maybe work
    the throttle to get some gas in it or just leave it close and hope it
    clears up before it quits.
    
    Sorry I am not more help but I didnt have that good of luck with my
    outboard and I gave up fairly easy.

re: < Note 1026.10 by WRASSE::FRIEDRICHS "Never trust a premi!" >

>    cone with a prop and place it on my test stand??  Other than having to
>    watch for 2 props, is there any reason that this would not work??

    Aren't the K&B outboards water cooled, with water-jacket heads?  If so,
    then running the motor on the test stand will cause it to overheat.

    Later,

    Don
    

    Yes, they are water cooled, but a prop should move enough air over it
    to air cool it...
    
    I pulled the engine last night to do this...  Then I pulled the starter
    cone only to find that I would have also needed the washer that goes
    behind the prop too (which I don't have, and getting K&B parts is 
    impossible around here).  So, I decide that there is no use in doing
    this, so I start putting the engine back on...
    
    I also decided to replace the plastic keeper on the E-Z connector with 
    the brass washer.  As I peaned the bottom of it, I broke the stearing
    arm casting!!  A small piece, but I doubt that anyone is going to have
    it around here.  GRRRRRR!!!! 
    
    Oh well, I guess I will concentrate on water flying this weekend...
    
    cheers,
    jeff
    

    If you need a part from K&B don't plan on seeing it for a few (at
    least) weeks.  If you want it rushed call them.  I had a previous 
    experience with losing a muffler in the drink on my swamp boat and
    used the basic order form that came with engine.
    
    
    Andy

    Is anyone running any electric boats? I have a 18" cris craft with 
    a 540 motor and would apreciate help on setting this up. It's a
    direct drive set up. I need to know what size prop I can use.
    
                                       Thanks in advance

    
    
      HI,
    
    I have three rc electrics pt109(dumas) sterling bb-63 missouri and
    the kitty-hawk cv-63. The missouri and the pt I just got a varity
    of props and tried them. Some I liked some I didnt. I use plastic
    except for the carrier.
    
    
                                           Jerry
    

    Well asl I had noted in the Battery file I now Have an electric
    Mr. Pringles so once I get batterys Ill be ready.  I guess Ill run
    anywhere within 50+- miles from Hudson Nh with a Preference for
    robinson pond in hudson.
    
    Dave
    
    Trying not to rush it.
    
    Oh yea I have a 30" vacuform deep vee powered by a MCoy .19
    that im thinking about putting back in the water.

    Little action in the RC Boat arena, eh?
    
    I recently purchase and constructed my first RC Boat---Mosty out
    of curiosity.
    
    The victom kit was the TRAXXUS VILLIAN.  Briefly, the Villian is
    a semi-scale, deep V, twin-screw, twin-engine, sterndrive electric.
    The kit is available in two forms: Kit and RTF (ready to float).
    The RTF flavor comes completed with a solid-state speed control
    of TRAXXUS make.  The powerplants are the same in both forms and
    are the standard, cheapie 05 style motors.
    
    Assembly of the kit was interesting in that the directions, the ones
    I received, were out of rev to the degree of being a minor nuisance.
    Other than this complaint, assembly went more or less smoothly.
    
    First trip to the lake...
    
    The ads for this boat touting scorching performance were probably
    written by marketing individuals suffering from "Tortiose Nervosa".
    Read that as: This boat runs well, seems to handle well (Im no expert),
    but lacks the 'spirit' the ads infer.  However... I just happend
    to have a pair of Trinity Speedworks 350 modifed motors lying about
    and, disregarding the 'void the warrenty' warning, I promptly installed
    them into the boat.  The other motors make great RC Boat anchors.
    
    The retrofit takes place without a hitch and the new, hotter motors
    breath GOBBS of 'spirit' into the hull.  The boat almost seems to
    leap up onto a plane and once there continues to race around the
    lake, carving neat, fast V-hull turns.  Even through some rough water.
            
    But of course the run time has decreased...significantly.
    
    9 minute runs on two scrs and the original motors
    
    vs
    
    4 minute runs on two scrs and the modified motors
    
    A word of caution though... I think I am at the stress limit useing
    the 350's and would not reccommend going any hotter... should anyone
    else develope the same curiosity.  The kit is plastic and while
    strong, was not made for these motor---I think. 
    
    Also, whichever motors you install, you need to let them cool totally
    in between runs.  Both sets of motors got quite hot after just one
    run.
    
    If one was serious, one could experiment with different screw pitch
    and diameters to reduce heat while retaining some performance.
    
    And finally, the directions say 'Never use full REVERSE throttle---The
    motors in your Villian are SO POWERFUL (heh heh) that they will
    literally pull your boat under water'.  Well, maybe just a little.
    But with the 350's in there your boat WILL dissapear from sight
    leaving you staring at a bubbling spot on the water.  I known. 
    I just had to try it.  :-)
    
    Fred
    
    ps...anyone wanna' buy a boat?  I'll give you a deal. :-)
    

    
    Is there anyone who has any information of a gas powered boating
    club in the Central Mass. area?
    
    Thanks,
    
    /Andy

    As i said in the "who's who" note, i'm a total beginner to this,
    so forgive me if i ask some silly questions.
    
    I've just put together a Kyosho Jetstream 800 racing boat, after 
    a few little problems ;-)
    
    However i'm already disappointed with the performace. It looks
    like it manages approx 10mph (is that 12/13 knots?), but the sales-
    man stated 30mph. Was this just salesman talk, or have i done some
    thing wrong?
    
    It's being run by a LeMans 360ST motor, but has room for a second
    motor. What would adding another motor do to the performance? And
    what would adding a larger propeller do?
    
    Thanks for any advice given...
    
    Cheers,
    
    				Lewis.

    Hi Lewis,
    
    adding a second motor will only improve the performance if your present
    electronics can handle it.  Sounds like you may need to beef up your
    speed control.  What are you presently using for a speed control?  To
    run two motors you're definitely going to need an electronic speed
    control that can pump out some amps and is water proof like a Theta or
    Novak.
    
    Robert

Hi Rob,

I don't fully understand your question, but i'll try to explain a little bit
better my set-up :-

On the description in the Kyosho 1991 catalogue it says that the speed type
is of the 3 gear rotational type.

Basically i have a rod connected to the servo, which, in turn, turns the 
gearing system from 1 to 3...

On the remote control side of it, the gearing is just done by pushing the 
stick up and down!

I hope this is what you needed, otherwise i'll get a more electronically
colleague to halp me out with descriptions.

Regards,

				Lewis.

    There's your performance problem!  The servo connected to the wiper arm
    gearing system you referred to is your mechanical speed control. 
    Mechanical speed controls are not as effective or 'powerful' as
    electronic speed controls (ESCs).  You will definitely want to invest
    in an ESC if you plan to put two motors in.  An ESC will greatly
    improve the performance of your single motor.  Hope this helps.
    
    Robert

Hi Rob,

When i said  "Performance Problem" i meant a *real* bad performance problem. 
I've now discovered what it was (and i feel a right fool!).

I opened up the boat, and was sitting around playing with the controls (like 
you do  when you  want to figure  something out ;-)), and suddenly  realised 
that when the gearing went forward, the  propeller was pulling, and when the 
gearing went  back, the  propeller was  pushing. I went  through the  manual 
again, and finally decided to swop the cables from the gearing to the motor. 
So i swopped  black and  red over. Common  sense told me to join the 2 black 
cables and the 2 red cables, but now it's the other way, and it works!

So when  i was  using  it before, it was  actually using  Reverse gear to go
forwards! Dumb or what? ;-)

Thanks  for the  details about ESC's. I never knew that before and i'll will 
definativly keep it in mind when i upgrade. But for now, this is fast enough
(if it gets any faster, i'll flip it  while turning! ;-)), but  now the only  
problem i seem to have it trying to make the battery last longer than 4 to 5 
minutes! Any ideas?

Thanks,

				Lewis.

    Try using 1700 mah SCE or 1400 SCR batteries.  The 1700s will give you
    longer run time, not as much power and the 1400s will give you a little
    longer run time and more power.  Have heard that 1700 SCRs are now
    available but have not seen them listed yet.
    
    Robert

    Thanks,
    
    I've got the battery pack in front of me now, and it is a TAMINYA 7.2V
    1400mAh battery, and is named 1400SCR.
    
    I don't think i'd want to sacrifice any performance for the battery
    life time. Is it possible to link 2 batteries in line to give double
    life time? If so, how? Or is this totally out of the question?
    
    Thanks for all the help so far...
    
    Cheers,
    
    				Lewis.

    Tamiya 7.2V 1400mah = Panasonic 1400SCR = lots of voltage, little
    current which means shorter than normal run times.  Actually, better
    than a 1200SCR but not as good as a Sanyo 1400SCR pack.  Parma and RTP
    are two companies that come to mind that sell Sanyo batteries under
    their label at reasonable prices.  An ESC will also improve your run
    time.
    
    Robert

    Ok,
    
    I'll look around for a Sanyo/Parma/RTP 1400SCR pack, and i'll also
    keep my eyes open  for a 1700SCR (will this give better performace
    or just longer  run time?). Meanwhile  i think  i'll  definatively
    look into getting ESC.
    
    Thanks for all the help,
    
    Best regards,
    
    				Lewis.

    re -1
    
    C.  All of the above!
    
    Robert