Conference vmszoo::rc

    
    	Be carefull. Check out your NiCads and everything else before
    you upgrade an old radio. A new radio can be purchased for about
    $100 and everything brand spanking new. It could cost you almost
    as much or more to if Nicads need replacement. 
    
    

    I would strongly recommend that you consider buying a new rig. 
    I wouldn't trust anything that sat around for years especially the
    servos.  A little corrosion could really ruin your day if it happens
    to cause a servo to quit in the air.  (This happened to me last
    week with a year old servo that developed a dead spot in flight)
    The cost of upgrading your old rig will come to at least 2/3 of
    the cost of a good 4 channel new system with all new batteries.
    The servos that you now have are obsolete so if you have one fail,
    you may not be able to find a replacement.  Then you will have to
    buy a new radio anyway after paying out to upgrade the old one.
    A hundred bucks is not too much to spend for a rig that will be
    good for at least a couple more years.
    
    Charlie
    

    I'm not sure if you told us what brand of older radio you now have.
    It's very possible that for 100.00 you could but a new four channel
    rig with three new servos. A new servo cable for the new radio could
    then be installed onto one of the older servos and your all set.
    The older servo could be used on the rudder and the three newer
    servos used on throttle,elevator and ailerons.
    
    						Ton

    I don't believe you could adapt a old 5-wire servo to a 3-wire system
    nor, would I think, should you want to.  Some good points have been
    made in favor of scrapping the old radio and buying a new one.  In 
    truth, the latest radios (even the cheapies) _are_, without
    question, far superior to the 10-year old technology yer' likely 
    dealing with on yer' old rig.  The state of the art has advanced
    in leaps-and-bounds since then and there would, indeed, be more
    accompanying risk to try to restore the old system than there is
    to buying a new one.
    
    Lessee', first we need to completely re-battery the system; that'll
    be about $30-$45.  Next we need to have the freaurncy changed and
    all components gone through. i.e. tuned/aligned/cleaned/thoroughly
    checked out; probably another $50 or so.  Now consider that a brand
    spanking new, Futaba 4-channel Conquest system goes for about $100
    through the mail-order houses.  Yep! It might, indeed, be wiser
    to go for the new system rather than risk throwing a like amount
    of good money into a system that may _or_may_not_ function satisfac-
    torily.
    
    If yer' at all like me, I know you probably hate the prospect of
    junking something that might still be useful.  However, when you
    start considering the potential risk/cost, that of losing a coupla'
    hundred bucks worth of airplane/engine and a like number of building
    hours, the decision should be less painful and the best course of
    action more obvious. 

      |     
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I, too, prefer the Futaba radios, having flown 3-systems virtually
    trouble-free (except for normal battery replacement) for the past
    6-years.  NOT ONCE has any of the three radios aver glitched or
    missed a signal.  I'm paranoid about taking the best possible care
    of my gear, especially batteries, and that doubtless has something
    to do with success, but the radios have been virtually faultless
    and have required little in the way of service/maintenance, again,
    save for the batteries which have a [SAFE] useful life of only 2-3
    years.  A battery cycler is a must to keep an eye on the state of
    nicad battery packs.
    
    Phil Kraft sold out to a large conglomerate some 10 or more years ago
    and the company continued manufacturing R/C systems for, perhaps,
    another 5-years, though they began importing essentially all the
    various models rather than building them themselves.  The only system
    that continued to be built in the U.S. was the top-of-the-line
    Signature-Series.  Finally, towards 5-years ago, the parent company
    discontinued the R/C business altogether in favor of other electronic
    work.  As Randy said, parts and service for Kraft systems still
    exist but the radio, itself, is extinct.  
    
    EK-Logictrol also closed the doors some 8-10 years back.  Verrrrry
    limited service remains for these radios, mainly through Ted White,
    EK's former repair guru, in Dallas, Texas.
    
    Ace still manufactures fully built systems and kits for radios up
    through the Silver Seven 7-ch system which is very highly regarded
    from the standpoint of its reliable circuitry. These are very plain-Jane
    appearing systems by todays standards but are reputed to perform
    excellently.                                   
    
    Of all the domestic radio manufacturers you were familiar with 10-years
    or more back, only Ace and Cannon remain in business.  The imported
    systems (mostly Japanese) dominate the field today and [grudgingly]
    I have to admit they're great looking and performing, reliable
    pieces of equipment.

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I thought I liked Futaba cuz you could change the frequency modules,
    and you can, but it turns out that it's almost cheaper to buy a whole
    new radio than just the frequency modules.  Sigh.  If I were going
    to do it all over again, I'd probably make sure I had a company
    that would sell me schematics as well....           
    
    No biggie, but I'd do it different next time.
    
    Willie

    Most radios nowadays have a modularized RF section that allows you
    to change frequencies by simply changing modules.  As Willie points
    out, however, the Tx and Rx modules are not cheap.  I believe
    Airtronics, JR and most of the other popular makes have this feature
    in common. 
    
    Yer' speculation about the buddy-cord is essentially on track. 
    Transmitters do not have to be on the same frequency or have the
    same number of channels but I'm not sure whether they must share
    the same type of modulation, i.e. AM, FM, PCM, PPM.  As you guessed,
    the "master" Tx does all the transmitting while the slave/student
    Tx supplies stick-inputs only.  As a general rule, the Tx's must
    be of the same make...I'm unaware of any un-like combinations of Tx's
    that will be compatible for buddy-cord operation. 

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    John,
    
    I, for one, am totally unaware as to what a Millicot system is,
    was or even looks like.  I'm only vaguely aware of the name but,
    'til it came up in this topic, I wouldn't have even known it was
    a radio system...sounds like a micro-lathe to me.  :B^)

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

                  <<< IOALOT::DUA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RC.NOTE;3 >>>
                  -< Welcome to the Radio Control conference >-
================================================================================
Note 677.28                     Getting back in??                       28 of 28
WOODRO::SCHRADER "Buddy can you Paradigm?"           26 lines   1-SEP-1988 16:10
                      -< Shouldn't it be the other way? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RE .27

>	service) and have it legal for AMA competition.  These are the
>	Gold Sticker transmitters, and are so designated because their
>	sidebands are no more than 40 db down at 20kHz from their center
>	frequency.

>	it fails miserably.  Its sidebands are 50 db down.  So, it would be
>	not AMA approved for operation on the lower channels 12 through
>	40-whatever.  This transmitter gets a Silver Sticker.  

    Just a nit but I think that you got the numbers reversed. A 50db down
    signal is more heavily suppressed (i.e. better) than a 40db down signal.
    They're talking about attenuation so the higher the number the better.


    AARDVARK 5 ???   DESERT RAT 4 ???   __DESERT_RAT__ ???  Really?

    Seems like an odd coincidence doesn't it ...  E^)

                     !
                   --+--
G. Schrader     o___<0>___o
                  *  *  *

You could say that the channels are time multiplexed, but its
really more like pulse position mulitplexed.  We've discussed
this quite a bit in other places, so I'll just hit the high
spots. 

Lets assume we've just reset the circuit for a frame of info.  On
the first rising edge, channel 1 begins its information.  The
modulation pulse only lasts approx. 300 microseconds, so it goes
away quickly.  The time from the leading edge of the first pulse
to the leading edge of the second pulse is the coded channel 1
position. This time varies between 1 millisecond to 2
milliseconds, with 1.5 milliseconds as the center position of the
servo. 

Now the channel 2 pulse leading edge goes up, stopping the
decoder channel 1 output, and starting the channel 2 output.  It
does this through all 7 channels, then there are no pulses for
approximately 8 milliseconds.  This gap is detected by a missing
pulse detector circuit and resets the decoder circuitry to expect
channel 1. 

Now, all manufacturers that I know of (except you-know-who) use
this scheme.  Its just that some manufacturers fudge a little on
the exact minimum, mid, and maximum width of the coding.
That is a manufacturer may designate 1.8 milliseconds as the
minimum pulse width, etc.  To tell you the truth, I don't really
believe there is any significant difference between radios
because nearly everyone uses the Signetics chip set.

While on this subject, I'd like to see end point adjustments on
my next radio, just to compensate for such things, not to mention
the cussed job of getting the throttle to open and close with the
exact throw of the servo!  If you don't do this your servo will
stall, as indicated by the buzzing sound, and this uses up lots
of current, which runs batteries down faster.

Servos can be a different story.  Signetics again makes the chip
used in most servos, but there are other chips, most notably in
the HITEC servos used in the Polks radio.  Since I think these
servos are junk, I would only buy the World radio, which I believe
uses the Signetics chip  (otherwise they're identical).

I regularly use my Silver Seven receiver, with the Signetics
decoder chip, with my Futaba 5-channel transmitter, with the
Signetics encoder chip.  I got me a freebie here, since all I
gotta do make a 7 channel radio is to hook some input to the two
channel inputs on the encoder chip, but I don't need 7 channels.

So to arrive at your question the long way, as long as the two
radios are FM, they should work together.

>Now, all manufacturers that I know of (except you-know-who) use
>this scheme.  Its just that some manufacturers fudge a little on

WHO?

>So to arrive at your question the long way, as long as the two
>radios are FM, they should work together.

So am I doing something wrong that my JR and Futaba don't talk to each
other?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

If the two radios use the same type of modulation, they should
talk to each other.  My Futaba 5-channel talks to a Tower Micro
4-channel, an ACE Digital Commander receiver with a home-brew
decoder from an obsolete Signetics chip, and my ACE Silver Seven.
Having never seen the modulation pattern of a JR, I can't say
what it looks like.  I would however, suspect the JR (its not
clear if its the transmitter or receiver in your case) more than
the Futaba for the reasons I've given before.

BTW -- I've been mispelling Millicot; its Millcott.  They are
familiar to me because, apparently, they only advertise in Model
Builder, and this is one of the two magazines I read regularly.
The September issue has their ad on pg. 74.  They call their
radio the Specialist, but if you ask me, it looks like a
single-stick ACE Silver Seven.  I suspect they're custom building
the S7 and putting their name on it.  Y'know what; I'm gonna call
them up and ask! 

But who is the "You know who" that makes a different modulation scheme?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================

Millicot of course!

Actually I had a great phone conversation with Hugh Milligan, the
MILL of Millcott (Endicott, the other partner didn't last
long).  Anyway, their radios are 4, 6, and 8 channels, and range
between $600 and $800.  I asked for some litercher on it and will
post anything interesting.

I tried to find out what big guns use his equipment, but he
danced pretty fast out of that one.  Apparently, he sells a lot
of radios to NASA and other government agencies for use in their
programs -- is this a shadow of the $600 toilet seat?  An
interesting sidelight is that he uses only the first cut of
Signetics chips, and deals directly with Signetics for
engineering changes to the chips.

Nice fellow.

>	...........I noticed that they recommended using cyanoacrylate
>    just about everywhere. Besides time, what advantage to these glues
>    have over alphetic resin or epoxy? 

*  WEIGHT!  Cyanoacrylates (CYA's) are far lighter than aliphatic resins 
(Titebond/Pica) and epoxies while having equal, even superior strength.
Additionally, CYA's are waterproof where aliphatics are not...yer' joints
will not be compromised by high humidity situations.

>			..........Can anyone give an opion on what
>    glues should be used, in general, on what parts of the plane?

*  I use CYA's almost everywhere in a model's structure.  Exceptions are in the
firewall/motormount area, where I prefer epoxy, and in skin seams/joints where I
prefer the better sandability of cellulose (Ambroid/Testors Formula-B/Aerogloss
C-77) or an aliphatic.


>    Do these glues hold better than epoxy? Time really isn't a
>    consideration with me, and I never really trusted "super glue" (can
>    anything that cures THAT FAST really be that good?). 

*  Emphatically yes!  But, use glues manufactured/intended for our use,
NOT the hardware/grocery store varieties.  All the hobby brands are
good though I, personally, prefer the ZAP glues from Pacer Products.         

>    						........I always thought
>    that ca did not work well on porous materials, like balsa. 

*  You should understand that there are several types/grades of CYA, each with
its own best application.  Regular/thin CYA is best suited to tight, no-gap 
joints; gap-filling CYA is used where a really tight-fitting joint isn't pos-
sible as it's thick enough to fill any voids in the joint;  slow/thick CYA is 
used as a substitute for epoxy in areas of great stress like firewalls, wing 
center-section joints, etc...(I'll normally just go ahead and use epoxy in 
these areas).  An accelerator/"kicker" is also handy when you want a joint
to "kick" immediately or when filleting a joint.    

>							.............If there
>    aren't any good arguements against it, I'm just going to build with tite-
>    bond and hobbypoxy II. 

*  I'm really not lobbying for either approach but I hope I've convinced you
that there's no good reason _not_ to use CYA's and a lot of good reasons _TO_
use them though other adhesives still have their places.
    
>    I have another question on perry carbs. I dont have the instructions
>    to the carb on my K&B. I know what the needle valve is for, but
>    what is the screw next to the opening on the carb for (mixture at
>    mid range......air bleed carb?)

*  I believe the screw you refer to is the carb barrel-retainer and stop screw.
If you were to remove this screw and slide the barrel out, you'd find that its 
finished end rides in a slot machined in the barrel, thus preventing the barrel 
from sliding out.  The depth to which this screw is tightened determines where
the barrel will stop rotating.  Some modelers use this screw to set idle speed
but I prefer to simply back it out 'til its only function is to retain the bar-
rel.  I then use the linkage, servo throw and end-point adjust (on the transmit-
ter) to determine high and low barrel positions.  In this way, there's no load
induced into the throttle servo like there can be when using the stop-screw
to set idle-speed.  BTW, idle _mixture_ is adjusted by means of the ser-
rated-edged disc located immediately behind the high-speed needle valve.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

>    			.......do you suggest fast or medium or slow cya?
>    the guy at the hobby shop recommended slow (thick) so I got a bottle
>    of slow Jet.

*  Actually, as I said previously, you'll have a use for both. The fast/thin
CYA is great for places where parts can be assembled/aligned "dry" (like
wing-ribs to spars, formers to fuse-sides, etc.)  When satisfied that all
is as it should be, simply apply a drop or two of CYA to the joint and it
migrates into the joint like magic and cures almost instantly.  In other
areas where it's desireable to lay a bead of glue then place the part-to-
be-glued onto this bead, the gap-filling or slow/thick CYA is the best bet.

>    ....[what are the proper] conditions to get the cya to kick properly. 
>    i will be building in a *damp* room in my basement. (damp enough for 
>    mildew to grow on the walls). I have a dehumidifier if it is necessary. 

*  Dampness is actually an asset when using CYA's.  CYA relies upon the natural
[microscopic] layer of moisture found on just about anything to "kick" it.  On
materials which have become extremely dried out, CYA's have difficulty kicking.
While this condition may not be overly common back there, this is the reason 
that old wood, often found in old kits, is difficult to glue with CYA.  You'll
find that applying a little moisture/water to the problem joint with a cotton-
swab or small brush will correct the condition immediately.  Incidentally, 
accelerator/kicker is seldom needed with fast/thin CYA but is very helpful when
using the thicker variety, especially when trying to fillet a joint;  just
apply the fillet/bead of CYA and hit it lightly with kicker...the fillet will
harden almost instantly.  DON'T OVERDO THE KICKER, however, as too much will
cause the glue to snap/pop/turn white and ugly...a little kicker goes a loooong
way.  In any event, don't sweat the humidity; if it's anything, it's an asset.
Just sit down and start CYA'ing...there's no real trick to using it aside from
being careful not to glue yer'self to yer' work (you'll get used to this in 
time) and trying to figger' out how to keep the CYA-bottle's nozz;e from clog-
ging up.
    
>    Now, they have fuels with synthetic oils. should i run this old
>    K&B on synthetic? (it has a sleeve that fits in the cylinder head,
>    and the piston is ringless). What about my Cox Black Widow? They
>    recommend, of course, cox glow fuel. 

*  The older lapped-piston K&B engine won't care about the synthetic as long
as you exercize due care not to set it too lean and overheat it...this, of
course, applies to virtually _any_ engine.  I believe I'd just stick to the Cox 
fuel for the smaller Cox engines.  They're so fussy anyhow I'd hesitate intro-
ducing something like different fuel into the game.

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    While I tend to agree that the CYA adhesives are truly great stuff,
    there is one potential drawback. Some people have some rather nasty
    reactions when exposed to the vapors. For example I find that unless
    I am in an EXTERMELY well ventilated area, my eyes will start to
    water if someone is using the stuff in the same room with me. I
    guess this is some sort of allergic reaction, but this was not always
    the case. I used "HOT STUFF" and some others for a number of years
    without any problems what ever. Now I find my body simply won't
    tolerate being anywhere near the stuff; I went back to "TITEBOND".
    I'm not telling you this to discourage you from trying these adhesives,
    just so that if you experience any problems you will be aware that
    the adhesive might be the cause.
    
    Wayne
                 

    FYI,
    
    At the Scale Masters Champs banquet last saturday night, the
    representative from Pacer announced that a new hypo-allergenic CYA
    has been developed and will be added to the Zap line of products
    presently.  This new product is intended to address the ill effects
    some modelers have experiences from ingesting CYA fumes.    

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Path: decwrl!labrea!eos!ames!vsi1!altnet!uunet!ingr!b14!steve
Subject: Manufacturer's Safety Data Sheet for CA glue (long)
Posted: 21 Sep 88 22:23:55 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Corp., Huntsville, AL
 
 
I thought that this would be of interest, considering the discussion of
the safety of using these products. I have the data sheets for several
different products, and while the ingredients vary slightly, the first
aid is identical for all CA products. I got these along with some samples
from a vendor earlier this year.
 
 
		Steve Conklin		uunet!ingr!tesla!steve
		Intergraph Corp.
		Huntsville, AL 35807
		(205) 772-6888
 
Relax! Don't worry. Have a homebrew.
 
=========================================================================
This is reproduced from a material safety data sheet from Loctite Corporation
 
I. PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION
 
  Product Name: Superbonder (c) 409 Industrial Grade Gel Instant Adhesive
 
  Part No.: 409
 
  Product type: Cyanacrylate ester
 
  Formula No.: LO-947
 
II. COMPOSITION
 
  Ingredients			% by weight		Hazard
  -----------			-----------		------
 
  Ethyl Cyanacrylate		85-90			See Section IV.
  Poly (methyl methacrylate)*	5-10				''
  Silicon dioxide**		5-10				''
  Hydroquinone			<.5				''
 
 
  * Poly (metyl methacrylate) has been shown to cause tumors in experimental
  animals when implanted beneath the skin.
  ** Silicon dioxide dust has been shown to cause adverse pulmonary effects
  on inhalation.
  In light of the low concentration of these components in the product, it is
  our best technical judgement that normal use of this product poses no such
  hazards. These statements are present only to comply with OSHA regulations.
 
III. CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
 
  Vapor Pressure: <0.2 mm		Specific Gravity: 1.1
 
  Vapor Density: ~3			Boiling Point: >300 F
 
  Solubility in water: polymerized by water	pH: does not apply
 
  Appearance: clear liquid		Odor: sharp, irritating
 
IV. TOXICITY AND HEALTH HAZARD DATA
 
  Toxicity: Bonds skin rapidly and strongly. Skin and eye irritant.
 
  Est. Oral LD 50: >5000 mg/kg		TLV: Est. 2 ppm (est.) [sic]
 
  Est. Dermal LD 50: >2000 mg/kg
 
  Symptoms of Overexposure: Vapor is irritating to eyes and mucous membranes
  above TLV. Prolonged and repeated overexposure to vapors may produce
  allergic reactions with asthma-like symptoms in sensitive individuals.
 
  Emergency Treatment Procedures
 
    Ingestion: see instructions below for emergency procedures
    Inhalation: Remove to fresh air. Treat symptomatically.
    Skin contact: see instructions below for emergency procedures
    Eye contact: see instructions below for emergency procedures
 
  Personal Protection
 
    Eyes: Safety glasses or goggles mandatory.
    Skin: Polyethylene gloves recommended. Do not use cotton gloves.
    Ventiliation: Positive down-draft exhaust ventilation should be provided
    to maintain vapor concentrations below TLV.
 
V. FLAMMABILITY AND EXPLOSIVE PROPERTIES
 
  Flash Point: >200 F			Method: TCC
  Explosive limits (% by volume in air)  lower: does not apply  upper: dna
  Recommended Extinguishing agents: CO2, foam, dry chemical
  Hazardous Products formed by Fire or Thermal Decomposition:
                Irritating organic fragments
  Unusual Fire or Explosion Hazards: none
  Compressed Gases:	Name: none	Pressure at room temp.: dna
 
VI. REACTIVITY DATA
 
  Stability:			[x] stable	[ ] unstable
  Hazardous Polymerization:	[ ] may occur	[x] will not occur
  Hazardous Decomposition Products (non-thermal): none
  Incompatibility: Polymerized by contact with water, alcohols, amines, and
                   alkalies
 
VII. SPILL OR LEAK AND DISPOSAL PROCEDURES
 
  Steps to be taken in case of spill or leak: flood area with water to
    polymerize. Soak up in an inert absorbant.
  Recommended method of disposal: Polymerize as above. Landfill or incinerate
    following EPA and local regulations.
 
VIII. STORAGE AND HANDLING PROCEDURES
 
  Storage: store at or below 75F to maximize shelf life
  Handling: Avoid contact with skin and eyes. Avoid breathing vapors.
 
IX. SHIPPING REGULATIONS
 
  Type or Class: DOT Not regulated ( <= 1 pint ); ORM-A ( >1 pint )
                 IATA Not regulated; [ORM-A ( >1 pint ) in U.S. only]
 
Prepared by: Stephen Repetto
Title: Environmental Health and Safety Specialist
Date: August 15, 1986
 
=============================================================================
 
Information for First Aid and Casualty on Treatment for Adhesion of Human
Skin to Itself if caused by Cyanoacrylate Adhesives
 
Cyanoacrylate adhesive is a very fast setting and strong adhesive. It bonds
human tissue including skin in seconds. Experience has shown that accidents
due to cyanoacrylates are handled best by passive, non-surgical first aid.
Treatment of specific types of accidents are given below.
 
SKIN ADHESION
 
First immerse the bonded surfaces in warm soapy water.
 
Peel or roll the surface apart with the aid of a blunt edge, e.g. a spatula
or a teaspoon handle; then remove adhesive from the skin with soap and water.
 
DO NOT try and pull surfaces apart with a direct opposing action.
 
EYLID TO EYELID OR EYEBALL ADHESION
 
In the event that the eyelids are stuck together or bonded to the eyeball,
wash thoroughly with warm water and apply a gauze patch. The eye will open
without further action, typically in 1-4 days. There will be no residual
damage. DO NOT try to open the eye by manipulation.
 
ADHESIVE ON THE EYEBALL
 
Cyanoacrylate introduced into the eyes will attach itself to the eye protein
and will disassociate from it over intermittent periods, generally covering
several hours. This will cause periods of weeping until clearance is achieved.
During the period of contamination double vision may be experienced together
with a lachrymatory effect, and it is important to understand the cause and
realize that disassociation will normally occur within a matter of hours, even
with gross contamination.
 
MOUTH
 
If lips are acidentally stuck together apply lots of warm water to the lips
and encourage maximum wetting and pressure from saliva inside the mouth.
Peel or roll lips apart. DO NOT try and pull the lips with direct opposing
action.
 
It is almost impossible to swallow cyanacrylate. The adhesive solidifies and
adheres in the mouth. Saliva will lift the adhesive in 1/2 to 2 days. In case
a lump forms in the mouth, position the patient to prevent ingestion of the
lump when it detaches.
 
BURNS
 
Cyanoacrylates give off heat on solidification. In rare cases a large drop
will increase in temperature enough to cause a burn. Burns should be treated
normally after the lump of cyanoacrylate is released from the tissue as
described above.
 
SURGERY
 
It should never be necessary to use such a drastic method to seperate
accidentally bonded skin.
 
=========================================================================

    I think that the abrasive ingredient in sandpaper is usually
    silicon dioxide, isn't it?

    Just to go back to radio's for a minute.  Is it against the
    rules/illegal for me to use my 27 mhz world engines controlaire
    radio any more ( by the way I dont fly only cars and boats)?
                                 
    Regards
    Dave who's thinking about dusting off the old Mc Coy .19  for the 
    first time in about 20 years.

    Dave,
    
    27mHz frequencies are still legal but very few intrepid (foolhardy?)
    individuals attempt to use them.  Due to the vast proliferance of
    CB radios, an R/C set in the same band is literally fair game, and
    a sitting duck at that!  I'm not aware whether any distinction exists
    between surface and air use of 27mHz freq.s but you'd want to check,
    just to keep yer' nose clean should you decide to risk trying it.
    
    Frankly, I'd advise against use of this band, even for surface
    vehicles, as yer' almost doomed before you start...it's just a matter
    of where-or-when you'll be blown away by someone's CB rig.  

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    RE:-.1  I second the motion to invest in new stuff.  The quality
    and reliability is worth the price.  Servos that sit around for
    years can be unreliable and old batteries WILL be unreliable.
                                   
    
    Charlie
    

    I think anybody should consider 27MHz for aircraft use to be
    totally unacceptable and deadly dangerous. Those frequencies
    are no longer endorsed by AMA, and as Al said, the proliferation
    of CB usage would virtually guarantee you'd get shot down if
    you managed to take off to begin with.

    For surface use, the danger is probably more to your vehicle
    than to people, although people can get hurt by runaway cars
    and boats too.

    You can get pretty cheap 2 channel radios - well under $100.
    It's worth it.

    Dave

    When I lost a plane operating on 27 Mhz in 1971, I decided that
    losing over 3 months work building, plus the money for the plane
    which at that time I could not really afford, that I would hang
    up RC until I could afford to get on 72 Mhz. or 53 Mhz.  The
    cause was definate interferance, and I am sure that it is even
    worse today.

		________
	 /	  __|__  
	=========[_____\>
	/	__|___|__/  BREAK A BLADE,
			    Ken    	

    Dan,  
    
    Beware! Yer' 8-10 year old radio equipment is most likely
    obsolete/illegal and will cause you and others trouble if you attempt
    to use it.  I hate to be the bearer of the bad news but it's almost
    certain you'll have to scrap yer' old radio equipment and spring for a
    new, state-of-the-art set that will function in today's environment
    with no hazard to yourself or others' planes.  See related topics
    herein for more detail.   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    
    Al,
    
     What freq. do they use now-a-days?  My old gear was 72.360MHZ six
    channel.
    
    	Dan

    Dan,
    
    	Check your frequency again and make sure it's 72.360. I say
    that because I don't see it listed anywhere as an old frequency.
    According to the book, as of Dec. 20th, 1987, it became illegal
    to operate on the following frequencies......
    
    72.080, 72.160, 72.240, 72.320, 72.400, 72.960, and 75.640.
    
    The flip side is, it's also NOT listed as a CURRENT frequency (no
    surprise here) so you should pretty much count on having to buy
    new equipment.
    
    Something in 5 or 6 channels will run an average of $180.00 to $220.00
    for a simple FM.
    
    BTW.....I live in Leominster and there are no fields around other
    than Gardner.
    
    Steve

    Dan,
    
    Steve's pretty much covered the bases on the frequency situation.  A
    quick-check is this: do you have two colored antenna flags to indicate
    frequency, i.e red & white, yellow & white, green & white, etc.?  If
    so, look no further, you have a frequency that was obsoleted as of Jan
    1, 1988 and it's almost certain the radio cannot be upgraded,
    particularly if it's an AM radio.  The 8-10 year old vintage you
    indicate all but guarantees that this will be the case.
    
    New frequencies (some 50-odd of them) are referred to more by channel
    number than by frequency nowadays, i.e. ch. 12, 14, 16, etc.  FM or PCM
    are the preferred forms of modulation now with AM being the least
    desireable and the most vulnerable to being shot down in today's far
    more hostile radio environment.  Once all our allocated frequencies are
    occupied (Jan 1, 1991), we'll be sitting with commercial pagers in
    between our channels a mere 10Khz away so all radios used after that
    time *MUST* be narrow band sets with receivers utilizing dual front
    ends, crystal filtering, or equivalent to ensure survival in this
    environment.  Therefore, care should be taken when buying a radio today
    to purchase one that already meets the requirements of the "1991 radio."
    
    Two discussions exist in this notesfile relative to this subject. 
    Maybe Alton (one of the moderators) can provide pointers to them;
    meantime try the commands:
    				DIR/TITLE="*AM*FM*PCM*WHAT*TH*"

    				DIR/TITLE="*1991*FORUM*"
    
    These should flush out the rather lengthy discertations that've already
    taken place onthis subject.  Read through them and don't be put off too
    much by them as the new breed of radios is prefectly capable of coping
    with the mess and they are relatively inexpensive too.
    
    *Alton:*  You'll probably want to move this discussion to one of the
    already extant relevant discussions.	
    
      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    
    
    You're right Al, I miss typed or something. My old radio freq. are
    Blue Max = 72.320MHZ (I built) and Kraft = 72.180MHZ. Never had any
    problem with either radio, seems a shame that I'll have to mount them
    as trophies.
    

    Re: .-1,
    
    I hear you loud and clear!  I'm gonna' lose my two favorite radios
    which are in perfect operating condition but are no longer good for
    anything except, perhaps, boat-anchors.  ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!
						 __
				 |     |        / |\	   	       
	         \|/		 |_____|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	 	<|  ~~~  ____ 04 ----| --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		 |\)____/___|\____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_		 |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

Re: .42

Sounds very similar to my experience/questions last year. I had a 6ch Blue Max, 
5ch Kraft and two 8ch Heathkits. All now dinosaurs. There are people that will 
recrystal them for you but your batteries are probably dead (or unreliable) and
by the time you get done you could have bought a replacement radio. I ended up 
with a Futaba Attack from Tower for $100 and never looked back. Unfortunately 
the servos for these systems are all 4 wire and aren't usable either. Get 
yourself a cheap, low end, name brand radio that you can add onto/upgrade when 
you find that you back into it for awhile.

I found that I was back in the air for the $100 radio and a gallon of fuel with
the planes I had and am now into it enough that I'll be buying a better 
compatible radio this season. The only thing I'd do different this year would be 
to buy an FM set with a dual conversion Rx instead of the AM Attack.

Your story really hits home with my 13 year old son and 6-8 years away from it.
I'm a club secretary/newsletter editor this year and very involved. I got back 
into it when I was contacted by a flying buddy I hadn't heard from in years and 
he invited me out ("what you got flyable?" "No current radio" "Here's the latest 
Tower Talk. $100 and you're in business. figure on being out next weekend!")

Just to make this something more than a "me too" reply...

Charlie Watt explained about the centertapped battery packs on the old systems 
(the reason they're 4 wire). Seems they ran things off 1/2 the pack at a time. 
Real sensitive to a bad battery cell. The new ones are all 3 wire and are usable 
with a bad cell in the flightpack (albeit poorer range/response) This can mean a 
lot when you consider converting an old style radio (not to mention getting 
accessories for the old sets)

Welcome back! (it's as much fun as you remember ;^)

Jim

    Just to echo what Jim's talking about:  The old 4 wire servos ran on a
    plus 2.5, minus 2.5 supply made up of two cells each.  If any one cell
    died, the mismatch of the two supplies would drive all of the servos to
    one end!  This was pretty serious especially if that included full
    throttle along with full everything else.  The current three wire
    systems use an amplifier chip with an H-Bridge output.  This allows the
    circuit to drive the motor both directions with a single voltage
    supply.  The servo chip also will work down to about 3 volts which
    means that you can lose one cell in the receiver pack and still have
    control.  This is why it's important to check your battery with an ESV
    (Expanded Scale Voltmeter.)  I have found several people flying with a
    dead cell that did not know it!
    	By the way, with PCM receivers, it may not be true that you can
    have control with three cells.  The servos would work, but the receiver
    might not.  
    
    
    This is the time of year to very carefully check the condition of your
    NiCads!  I can't emphasize this enough
    
    
    Charlie
    

    Well, back a while ago, I started with this note, and things have 
    shifted a bit since then... so to edit a bit... and add a new problem
    at the end.
Note 4.273                    Who's WHO, With WHAT.                   273 of 279
DAVE::MITTON "MS-DOS: 50M sold, 15M per year"        42 lines  16-JUL-1990 19:24
                       -< An old toy out of the closet >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...    
    Have an ancient Heathkit R/C system which I just resurected this last 
    weekend.  It's back from my High School days, before R/C ICs.
    Had to built some new battery packs to give it some power.
    Did it by buying a bunch of Panasonic nicads at BJ's and soldering them
    up replacing the old corroding batteries.  (Why do the manufacts always
    say "don't solder to battery?")
    
    I've restored the Heathkit Spectre 1/8th scale car to working order.
    The Veco .19  will need some run-in.  I had really had to soak the
    thing, then use a little vise and wrench persuasion to get the main
    bearing to rotate again.  WD40 and Cox fuel have brought it back to
    life. (I think)
    
    So, I bought a bunch of R/C mags in Harvard Square, and called a few
    hobby shops to try to figure out the R/C landscape here, 20 years
    later.
    
    I'm all set to go, just have some questions  (maybe a pointer to some
    other notes,... only been in this conference for 10 minutes) [then...]
    
    - Seems the only gas track nearby is in Bridgewater CT??
    	any nearer informal favorite places?
    
    - What do people use to start Glow Plugs these days?
    	it seems that #6 dry cells have faded into history
    
    - Where's a good R/C hobby shop in the Greater Boston area
    	(also Nashua or Littleton) that handles Cars and Gas???
        I need a Starter motor and battery.
    
    	nuf for now.
    	Dave.
================================================================================
    Then  UPWARD::CASEYA "The Desert Rat" responded with a warning about
    the 1991 FCC & AMA rules.   
    Then  LEHIGH::JNATALONI responded with a pointer to Hobbies Plus in
    Nashua, which is still in the Who's Who topic string.
================================================================================
DAVE::MITTON "MS-DOS: 50M sold, 15M per year"        27 lines  17-JUL-1990 21:28
                       -< thanks, Looks legal so far... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    - Thanks, I'm poking around in here attempting to catch up on these
    changes.  Particularly, 1991.  But my rig is on Channel 5, 27.195 Mz
    so it appears to be on a legal channel.  I don't know much about
    whether it's signal meets current specs.  It would be interesting if
    there is a place to get it tested?  probably not.
    
    Anyways.... I'm just trying to see how far I can get with what I have,
    or buy up new stuff, or junk it all.   We'll see.  Depends on my
    patientice and how much I'm willing to spend.  I'm more after the fun.
    I've only spent about $30 so far, and I'm almost ready to roll again.
    Just need a Starter motor, something I never sprung for before.
    (and some fuel...and some...)
    
    I almost bought a new radio on Saturday... but I was confused about
    channels and my requirements... good thing.  I needed the time to 
    peruse the ads in the mags.
    
    - Found a #6 cell at the ACE Hardware in Arlington.  It must be a
    ACE part then.  Though it was the last on the shelf.  Someone in
    another note seemed to have problems finding them.
    
    	Dave.
================================================================================
    
    Well I got the car running this last weekend.  The engine still seems
    to work well.  Getting the R/C gear working again has been interesting.
    I've managed to find a couple of cold solder joints that caused system 
    flakiness and me to hang it up those many years ago.
    
    Anyways, I've now got two problems;  The steering linkage is inadequate
    for hard knocks.  I'm going to fix that with a new all metal swivel
    ball system and a servo saver.
    
    Second, my S.O.'s nephew managed to run the car into a curb and the
    engine just stripped the nylon spur gear.  Of course, a replacement
    from Heathkit is out.  I need some help understanding what my options
    are in drive train parts these days.   Seems most kits come with a
    differential and not much more is said about it.  For a gas car, I need
    something heavy duty.  Particularly the problem I need solved is
    something that will give when the engine is above clutch speed but
    stopped by an immovable object.  Preferrably, not the gear teeth.
    I'm sure that's not what modern differentials are for, but can that do 
    that also?  (FWIW: the gear is a 2" diam 64 tooth, 32 pitch on a .25" axle)
    Can I just buy something from Robinson (once I can get them on the
    phone) or is there something smarter?   Tower only seems to have parts
    for specific cars....  seems hard to find specs on things, especially
    gas cars.  Suggestions?
    
    	Dave.

   Hi,

   I'm now  returning  to  the  sport  after  a  long time away, and have some
   questions.

   First, where  is  a  good  R/C aircraft hobby store in the Marlboro/Maynard
   area?  I'm beginning the process of putting my 1930's trainer back together
   again  and  need some epoxy and CA.  How are the store's prices, comparable
   to  mail  order places? [Tower said it will take 3 wks to get their catalog
   in  the  mail, can't wait that long.  Hope their product shipping is faster
   than that!].

   What's this  UFO  stuff?  I  used  to use Hot Stuff, what is the difference
   between  Hot  Stuff  and  UFO, same stuff? Can you still use baking soda to
   'kick  off'  the new UFO? Also, what is the difference between 5-minute and
   30-minute  epoxy  -  strength,  weight,  and  patience?  :-)  Is  there any
   difference between brands, ie, trust the name of Devcon, etc?

   I got  out  of  the sport (high school age) when I lost radio control of my
   trainer  and  watched it loop and glide into the woods.  [Found it one year
   later,  quite  weathered].   Since  I don't want that happening again, I've
   decided  to  go  PCM  with my next radio (I think it would cost too much to
   revamp  my old second-hand 3-chan MRC FM set).  The Futaba 6-chan PCM looks
   like  a  good  choice.   Do  many people need more than 6 channels, do many
   people ever find themselves expanding to the 7 or 9 channel sets later?

   My K&B  .61 sat in the woods for a year and got rained on, and then another
   6 yrs in my basement, oiled.  It looks fine on the outside, ie.  no rust or
   anything.  Should I send it back for an overhaul (what is likely to be bad?
   How much will, say, a bearing replacement cost from K&B?) or first just gas
   it  up for a test start? (any danger?) Or would I just be better off buying
   a  whole  new  engine?  {Who makes powerful .40 size engines nowadays, what
   happened to World Engines?}

   What are  the  good flying fields/clubs in this Marlboro/Maynard area? Do I
   have  to  join  AMA?  How  much  is that? What does it 'buy' me, is it just
   another  insurance  deal  and nothing else? Do you have to be AMA to join a
   club?

   Thanks in advance for the help...

   -Erik

  Hi Erik,

  Welcome back to R/C flying.  I'll try and answer some of your questions.




>   First, where  is  a  good  R/C aircraft hobby store in the Marlboro/Maynard
>   area?  

   There are a few good shops *around* the area but not much that is right
in the middle.  There's Rays in Worcestor, Toms in Chelmsford, Fish R/C in
Framingham (I think...they moved not too long ago and I believe they
changed the name too), Hobby USA in Westford, USA Hobby in Ashland, and 
I'm sure I've forgotten a few.  Do a 'show key' to find the hobby shop
notes in this file.  It contains directions to all of them.


>I'm beginning the process of putting my 1930's trainer back together
>   again  and  need some epoxy and CA.  How are the store's prices, comparable
>   to  mail  order places? [Tower said it will take 3 wks to get their catalog
>   in  the  mail, can't wait that long.  Hope their product shipping is faster
>   than that!].

  
  Most of the stores are fairly competitive now.  When you do price comparisons
you must include the shipping for mail order (and tax if applicable) and just
include tax for the stores.  When you look at the final total you will often
find the stores close or even cheaper than mail order.  Even if the local 
store is a bit more expensive ($5-$10) on a major item, I will tend to give
my business to the local guy since it's tougher for him to stay in
business.  I also want the local store to be there when I need a 'quick fix',
so paying a little more (once in a while) and keeping him in business is worth
it.

>   What's this  UFO  stuff?  I  used  to use Hot Stuff, what is the difference
>   between  Hot  Stuff  and  UFO, same stuff? Can you still use baking soda to
>   'kick  off'  the new UFO? 

   UFO is 'User Friendly - Odorless'  It is a brand of CYA glue that doesn't
give off the odor of regular CYA when it kicks.  It is especially useful if
you have respiratory problems (such as asthma) and can't tolerate the standard
stuff.  There is no guarantee that UFO won't cause the same reaction the regular
stuff does, but it is much better (I know from personal experience).
  If you don't have trouble with Hot Stuff or Zap or whatever...don't bother
with UFO, you'll save LOTS of money.


>Also, what is the difference between 5-minute and
>   30-minute  epoxy  -  strength,  weight,  and  patience?  :-)  Is  there any
>   difference between brands, ie, trust the name of Devcon, etc?


  Curing time is the big difference.  Someone told me they think the big 
difference in strength comes from the 30 min stuff being able to penetrate
into the wood further than the quicker stuff.  As a rule you should use the
30min epoxy for such things as fire walls and high stress areas.  I only
use 5 min and have never had a problem, but if your buying new anyhow.....
  I don't know of any major differences in brand names.  I buy whatever the
hobby store has on sale.



>   The Futaba 6-chan PCM looks
>   like  a  good  choice.   Do  many people need more than 6 channels, do many
>   people ever find themselves expanding to the 7 or 9 channel sets later?


  Definitely abandon you old set.  It's not worth it.
  If your going to needing any instructions I would suggest you get in touch
with the person who is going to do the instructing and get their recommendation.
Right now, JR is the biggest name in this notesfile (for the Maynard area
fliers anyhow).
  6 ch is more than likely all you will ever need.  


>   My K&B  .61 sat in the woods for a year and got rained on, and then another
>   6 yrs in my basement, oiled.  It looks fine on the outside, ie.  no rust or
>   anything.  Should I send it back for an overhaul (what is likely to be bad?
>   How much will, say, a bearing replacement cost from K&B?) or first just gas
>   it  up for a test start? (any danger?) Or would I just be better off buying
>   a  whole  new  engine?  {Who makes powerful .40 size engines nowadays, what
>   happened to World Engines?}


   Have someone who knows engines take it apart for you and give it a good
checkout.  Even if it runs alright for a tank or two you don't want to have
it break on you when your in the air.  Some nice planes have been lost due
to a dead engine at an 'inopportune' moment.


>   What are  the  good flying fields/clubs in this Marlboro/Maynard area? Do I
>   have  to  join  AMA?  How  much  is that? What does it 'buy' me, is it just
>   another  insurance  deal  and nothing else? Do you have to be AMA to join a
>   club?


   AMA - YES!  You can't join *any* clubs without AMA membership.  The cost
is $40 a year.  It give you $1,000,000 liability insurance and a subscription
to Model Aviation.  You save something like $4 without the subscription.

   There are several clubs in the Marlboro/Maynard area.  The 2 most accessible
are the Central Mass. R/C Modelers (CMRCM) and the Charles River Radio Control
club (CRRC).  There's also the 495th Flying club in Chelmsford.
  Many of us in this area (MRO/MLO/LKG) are members of CMRCM.


  There is a meeting of the DEC Radio Control Modelers (DECRCM) Tuesday night
in MRO1.  Come on and join us.  We need someone new to abuse...I mean, help.
We have a lot of fun at these meetings and you can meet up with a bunch of
local fliers and instructors.

  Also, please put an entry in 4.* - who's who - so we know more about your
background and which facility you work in and................

  Hope this helps!

                          Jim