| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 438.1 | documentation so far | TALLIS::LADD | | Mon Jan 25 1988 16:13 | 45 |
| the first tidbit of documentation i found for the p47 was "P47
In Action". this contained lots of b+w pictures, brief history of
the modifications made to the plane during the course of the war,
and the all important 3-view drawing. i dont know how accurate
this 3-view is...
i went to the new england air museum in windsor locks and took a
couple dozen photos of the p47 they have. its a later model with
a bubble canopy but i was still able to get lots of useful info.
theres no substitute for being able to walk up to the real thing
and examine it first hand. most pictures in books just arent sharp
enough to see small detail.
bought a book from historic aviation, "P47 at War" that was EXCELLENT.
it has lotsa pictures, some in color, and was interesting reading.
also read bob johnsons biography, bob johnson was a thunderbolt
pilot for the 56th fighter group.
finally got a video from historic aviation, one from their warbird
checkout series. big bucks but it contained invaluable info. i
learned things like proper flap positioning for parking (down so
noone walks on em) taxiing (up so stones dont hit em) takeoff (up)
and landing. also saw landing gear sequences and normal landing
procedures etc etc. believe it or not i lent this tape to a friend
who accidently recorded over the beginning of it (with alf no less)
and still gotta see if i can get it repaired. arghhh. if anyone
wants to see this film, send me a blank tape and i record it for
you rather than sending the master copy.
i think i've decided to model walker "bud" mahurin's p47-d5. bud
was a member of the 56th fighter group in england 1942-? he was
shot down by ground fire and became a pow after 20+ kills. his
ship had "Spirit of Atlantic City" painted on the side. the d5
variant is a bit unusual, i've already modified the cowl flaps on
the bert baker kit for this. the paint job was standard dirty olive
drap on top and light blue on bottom. what i dont know is
1. how to get exact same colors and how do i document this?
2. i dont have any pictures of starboard side of plane, how
do i know if it was decorated the same way?
3. the 3-view i have is for a p47-d23 with different cowl flaps.
is it ok to have an addendum to the 3-view with the proper
flap design or do i need the exact correct 3-view?
kevin
|
| 438.2 | ADEQUATE ENGINE "VERRRRY" IMPORTANT....!! | GHANI::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Mon Jan 25 1988 18:49 | 52 |
| Kevin,
First, yer' gonna love the Baker P-47. I've had the opportunity to fly several
of them and, adequately powered, it'd be very hard to find a finer flying scale
model. What engine do you plan to use?? Two I've flown were powered by Webra
Bullies and flew quite adequately. Another I had the pleasure to fly had a 3.2
Sachs-Dolmar and it outperformed the others noticeably. If the weight is kept
in the low-20lb. range, a Super-Tigre 3000 "will" work but I'm not overly im-
pressed with what I've seen of this engine with the exception of one a buddy of
mine is running with a CH Prod.'s CD ignition setup on it. Engine choice will
be critical for satisfactory performance..choose the best engine you can afford.
> i think i've decided to model walker "bud" mahurin's p47-d5. bud
> was a member of the 56th fighter group in england 1942-? he was
> shot down by ground fire and became a pow after 20+ kills. his
> ship had "Spirit of Atlantic City" painted on the side.
* The P-47G [same as the "D" but built by another mfgr.] that the Planes of Fame
Museum in Chino, California has is painted in Mahurin's scheme. I'm sure you
could contact them for a picture pack on their bird. Also, you may want to
consider ordering a photo-pack on the "Razorback Jug" from Scale Model Research,
[Bob Banka] @ 2334 Ticonderoga Way, Costa Mesa, California, 92626, tel: (714)
979-8058. Unless I miss my guess, Bob's package probably contains some pix of
Planes of Fame's "Spirit of Atlantic City, N.J."
> 1. how to get exact same colors and how do i document this?
* Contact the National Air and Space Museum [Smithsonian] asking for standard
WW-II camouflage colors' FS numbers and request chips of the colors you require.
Larry Wolfe of Jet Hangar Hobbies [in California] can mix to the FS numbers you
supply in Ditzler acrylic lacquer. Since the O.D. and light blue were very
standard/common, Larry might well be able to supply the FS numbers for these and
you can simply "make" yer' own chips for documentation purposes.
> 2. i dont have any pictures of starboard side of plane, how
> do i know if it was decorated the same way?
* I'm pretty sure the "Spirit" legend appears only on the port [left] side of
the fuse, which was very common. In any event, you only "have" to show as much
as yer' documentation supports. In fact, it can be trouble to show something on
the model that doesn't appear on yer' documentation.
> 3. the 3-view i have is for a p47-d23 with different cowl flaps.
> is it ok to have an addendum to the 3-view with the proper
> flap design or do i need the exact correct 3-view?
* Yes, it's common practice to use addendums to detail "minor" deviations from
the 3-view, when one for the exact model cannot be obtained. I'd try to obtain
the correct 3-view, if possible, but, failing that, would use the addendum ap-
proach you mention.
Adios, Al
|
| 438.3 | uh oh, st2500 | TALLIS::LADD | | Mon Jan 25 1988 21:30 | 39 |
| al, i already love bert's p47. my previous quicky kit review may
have sounded solemn as i listed the 5 things that could have been
better, but i didnt have time to list the 1001 things that are great!
its been the most rewarding building experience yet and i look forward
to the flying... and building another even better one...
hmmm. i bought a st2500 because it was one of the engines recommended
by bert baker and because i watched a bert baker zero fly well with
the same engine. however, i bet bert's instructions were printed
before the st3000 was available, and i'm sure that zero weighed
less than the 24lbs i'm aiming for with the jug. the jug also has
to be less aerodynamically clean with that humungous cowl up front.
i specifically stayed away from the st3000 because i'd heard rumors
(dave platt magazine article) about possible vibration problems,
but that was better than a year ago.
i know nothing about bullies, are they glo or gas? i was leaning
towards the ole faithful 2-cycle glo engine cause i understand them
and have had good luck with them.
you say buy the best engine you can afford. good advise. the thing
i can afford the least is a crash and I PREDICT THAT IF I CRASH,
IT WILL BE DUE TO ENGINE OR MECHANICAL FAILURE, rather than pilot
error or radio interference. at least thats what past (painfull)
experience has taught me. i'll talk more later on my mechanical
failure concerns (like elevator pushrod).
i've read with interest about the CH ignition setup. figured i'd
wait and see if i was unhappy with idle RELIABILITY. can it really
affect top-end power?
as for the documentation, thanks for the pointers. i'm not surprised
that there is a G model of the "spirit of atlantic city". i've
found 3 pictures of mahurin's planes, and 1 picture (the d5) is obviously
different cause the list of crew members painted on the side is
different. thanks again for the info, i'm gonna pursuit it.
kevin
|
| 438.4 | THE OL' JUG'S CLEANER THAN YOU IMAGINE..... | GHANI::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Tue Jan 26 1988 13:52 | 65 |
| > .......the jug also has
> to be less aerodynamically clean with that humungous cowl up front.
* Expect to be pleasantly surprised at how much aerodynamically cleaner than you
might expect that massive Jug fuselage "really" is. Kartveli [designer] and Re-
public must've really done their homework as the Jug is deceptively clean for
its apparent bulk...with adequate power it hauls the mail very respectably.
> i specifically stayed away from the st3000 because i'd heard rumors
> (dave platt magazine article) about possible vibration problems,
* This was/is a problem with virtually all the big ST mills. Surprisingly,
the CH CD ignition has really smoothed out the one -3000 I have immediate ex-
perience with. The vibration level "feels" no more than the average .60 pro-
duces and it'll idle at ~800 R's.
> i know nothing about bullies, are they glo or gas? i was leaning
> towards the ole faithful 2-cycle glo engine cause i understand them
> and have had good luck with them.
* The Webra can be bought/run, optionally, gas or glo. The guys in California
are running them glo [with the Don Lien adaptor fitting an O.S. 7D carb] with
excellent results/power. My buddy, Diego Lopez runs nothing else in his models
which include a Baker Zero, 2-Baker Jugs, a Baker P-38 and a Don Lien F-6-F
Hellcat. It is a much sturdier, more tolerant handling engine than the big ST's
but the 3.7 [not 3.2 as I said earlier] Sachs-Dolmar puts them all to shame.
Naturally, it's also the most expensive of the three.
> you say buy the best engine you can afford. good advise. the thing
> i can afford the least is a crash and I PREDICT THAT IF I CRASH,
> IT WILL BE DUE TO ENGINE OR MECHANICAL FAILURE,
* EXACTLY! That's why you really can't afford "not" to afford the best you can
justify buying. Speaking of mechanical failure, unless folks thereabouts are
having better luck than we're seeing, I'd recommend "against" using Dave Platt
retracts [sorry `bout that, Dave, muh' friend]. We're having a great deal of
difficulty, reliability-wise, due to poor quality construction of the air cylin-
ders. Check with "Big Bert" for what gear he currently recommends; Scale-Flight
or the new Don Lien gear are possibilities as are the new, giant scale Robarts.
This, again, is "not" an area in which you can afford to scrimp.
> i've read with interest about the CH ignition setup. figured i'd
> wait and see if i was unhappy with idle RELIABILITY. can it really
> affect top-end power?
* My buddy Chuck's ST-3000 was formerly ornery to start/adjust, had a propensity
for overheating [out in the breeze on the nose of a Byron Pipe-Dream] and had
all it could do to manage 8300 R's on a 15x10 prop. Since installing the CD ig-
nition, it starts/runs/idles like a dream and turns a 16x8 prop at over 9500,
though Chuck keeps it tuned-down to 92oo for safety. Now installed in a 25lb.+
Platt Mustang, we estimated its level-flight speed last weekend at easily 100mph
plus, and that was with "the gear down!" That was with the timing set 28-degrees
advanced...the instructions say you can go as much as 31-degrees so Chuck fig-
gers' he may be able to get 10K's out of the -3000. The biggest disadvantage I
see with the CD ignition setup is that it costs nearly as much as the purchase
price [on sale] of the engine itself.
BTW, Kevin, my spy network informs me you've purchased a quantity of Dan Parsons
.6-oz. glass cloth. This is intended for the Jug, I assume. In the interest of
easier application and less weight [not to mention sanding] you might consider
applying the cloth with K&B clear per Tom Tenerowicz's technique. Dan's method
using Enviro-Tex epoxy resin certainly works but tends to be slow [due to the
curing time of the resin] and requires quite a bit of elbow grease.
Adios and keep us informed as to yer' progress, Al
|
| 438.5 | bully or sachs | TALLIS::LADD | | Tue Jan 26 1988 21:05 | 33 |
| i think its time to seriously reaccess the engine situation. the st2500 i have
i bought fairly cheap ($113) back when the dollar was stronger, so i can get my
money back. the motor box i constructed in the fuse will become obsolete
with a new engine, but
its no big deal to remove it and build another one (after all, i built the tail
cone 3 times). so the bottom line is i'll probably get either a bully or sachs.
who sells bullies? i've only seen don lien accessories for bullies advertised
like mufflers for $85. the cost of a st3000 with ignition and muffler will
easily reach 300. i wish i had a byrons catalogue, they seem to favor sachs
for their warbirds but also use quadra with reduction drives. hmmm, more
research to do! do gas engines turn bigger props slower, so no gear reduction
necessary? why do sachs but everyone to shame, power or reliability or ???
i dont know what the favored giant scale retracts are around here. there aint
many of us nuts. i know lindsay smith used dave platt retracts in his platt
fw190. but last time i saw him (orange scale meet last july) he hadnt flown
his plane yet, it was static only. interestingly, for extra money, the
retracts were modified for the fw190, some kind of bend in the strut...
big bert himself is pushing the scale flight retracts naturally. last week
he got a batch of 15 sets for p38's and was expecting another batch for 47's
in about 3 weeks. so far bert seems to be golden and i'll give his retracts
a shot. one interesting suggestion he made was to make my own air
reservoir by silver soldering a brass tube into a wd40 aerosal can.
if my wife hooks into your "spy network" i'm in big trouble! yes, i talked with
mrs dan parsons just the other night and she sweet talked me into a double order
of cloth. nice lady. i told her i was a new customer and al casey referred me.
credibility went out the window right there. "BIG AL CASEY!" she said... she
i gotta go, will continue tomorrow.
kevin
|
| 438.6 | THINK I'D OPT FOR THE WEBRA BULLY...... | GHANI::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Wed Jan 27 1988 13:46 | 46 |
| > who sells bullies? i've only seen don lien accessories for bullies advertised
> like mufflers for $85.
* I'm reasonably certain the Bully is distrinuted through Circus Hobbies as they
[as far as I know] are the exclusive distributor for Webra engines.
> ....i wish i had a byrons catalogue, they seem to favor sachs
> for their warbirds but also use quadra with reduction drives. hmmm, more
> research to do!
* Don't fool with reduction unless you don't mind "not" having respectable top
end speed and vertical performance..crisp, realistic performance [in my opinion]
of these large warbirds is only attainable using a healthy power plant, direct
drive [1:1] to the prop.
> .....do gas engines turn bigger props slower, so no gear reduction
> necessary?
* Yes. Expect a Quadra/sachs type mill to turn a [say] 16" prop at 7500-to-
9000 RPM. The glo ST's/Bullies can be "coaxed" close to 10K on similar size
props.
> why do sachs but everyone to shame, power or reliability or ???
* Yes! Power, reliability, quality and longevity but, primarily, POWER are the
strong points of the Sachs. For use in large warbirds, the Sachs is superior to
any other engine presently available but it "is" larger, possibly requiring some
butchering of the Baker -47 cowl. Were it me, I'd opt for the Bully which has
demonstrated more than acceptable performance in this [and other] ship(s) and
fits comfortably within the cowling.
> big bert himself is pushing the scale flight retracts naturally. last week
> he got a batch of 15 sets for p38's and was expecting another batch for 47's
> in about 3 weeks. so far bert seems to be golden and i'll give his retracts
> a shot. one interesting suggestion he made was to make my own air
> reservoir by silver soldering a brass tube into a wd40 aerosal can.
* Another alternative is to use a 1-liter plastic soft drink bottle [or smaller
as suits the space available]. Diego Lopez uses [about] a 12-oz. shampoo bottle
with fittings installed in the cap.
> .......and she sweet talked me into a double order of cloth. nice lady.
* Yep! Sounds like good ol' Bette alright! I know you'll love the cloth though.
Adios, Al
|
| 438.7 | high on dope | HANDEL::LADD | | Thu Jan 28 1988 21:08 | 48 |
|
i intend to cover the wing of the p47 with .6 cloth and nitrate/talcum
powder. bert says this is much less prone to cracking than is k+b
superpoxy. he says to lay down the cloth and saturate it with straight
nitrate with a brush. when dry, sand lightly and apply 2 or 3
coats of nitrate thicken as much as possible (brushability) with
talcum powder, sanding between coats. he also recommended doubling
the wing top and bottom around the landing gear blocks with 2oz
cloth.
i am testing this procedure on my top-flite corsair which has a
sheeted wing. first thing i discovered is that as the dope shrinks,
it distorts the wood anwhere the wood is weak, esp at edges that
are butted together but not really glued together. i've found nitrate
to brush on real easy and sand almost too easy. you can burn clear
thru thin cloth in a flash with 220 sandpaper after only 1 coat.
i do wonder how acrylic laquer will adhere to this.
i'm also wondering about the elevator push rod which is a conventional
push-pull rod. its about 4 feet long and its in push mode for up
elevator, just opposite of what you'd hope for. i made one from
2 pieces of 1/4x3/8 spruce laminated with zap, then laminated with
.007 carbon fiber. its a bit heavy and still has some flex. what
are other people using for heavy-duty push rods?
servos is another interesting topic. i'm going to use my relatively
new futaba 7ch fm, but buy all new servos. right now i'm figuring
on the following:
elevator 1 1/4 scale
rudder 1 1/4 scale
ailerons 2 normal size ball bearing
flaps 1 1/4 scale
throttle 1 micro
retracts 1 small retract ???
drop tank 1 micro
the retract system is gonna be complicated. i'm leaning on the
tailwheel being mechanical and the mains of course air. then
should the airvalves for the mains be in the wing with its own
servo or should i keep everything in the fuse. i guess with the
first setup there are 2 retract servos and only 1 airline from
fuse to wing (air reservoir). in the latter there is only 1 servo
but air lines for retracts (4) and probably doors (2?). i gotta
think the extra servo and y connector (weight and $$$) is almost
worth it. how reliable are those quik-connectors?
kevin
|
| 438.8 | TRY ARROWSHAFT, KIMOSABE........ | GHANI::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Jan 29 1988 13:34 | 25 |
| Kevin,
I'd suggest you consider using fiberglass arrowshaft for pushrod(s).
If not available in the required length, arrowshaft can be easily
spliced by telescoping a piece of hardwood dowel [or even brass
tubing] inside the arrowshaft with liberal epoxy. Then drill and
pin on both sides of the splice for security [peace of mind].
Also, I'd consider using two elevator and aileron servos, one on
each surface for the extra security a redundant system provides
as well as reducing the load(s) on each individual servo.
For retracts, I recommend mounting everything in the wing with NO
disconnects. I believe strongly in having as few potential leak
points as possible and quick-disconnects are just another place
to cause problems. This will require a separate servo to operate
the mechanical tailwheel retract but the system integrity makes
it well worthwhile. Main gear inner doors can be slaved to the
retracting wheels without the necessity of an additional servo via
a drag whisker mounted to the door such that the wheel contacts
the whisker and pulls the door shut behind it. th door can be spring
loaded in the open position or, Dave Platt simply weights the door
[with lead] to stay open by gravity.
Adios, Al
|
| 438.9 | AND ANOTHER THING....... | GHANI::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Jan 29 1988 13:49 | 10 |
| Kevin,
I should add that I believe it's a good idea to suspend pushrods
of this size/length with a bushing at both ends. I'll normally
use a piece of inner-nyrod slipped over the 1/16" pushrod wire
supported in a balsa/ply bracket attached to the fuse or a convenient
former. This makes for a smooth-running control and removes vibration
loads from the servo.
Adios, Al
|
| 438.10 | carbon fiber laminate for sturdy pushrods | SPKALI::THOMAS | | Mon Feb 01 1988 09:59 | 10 |
| Kevin, My suggestion.
Use a balsa stick 3/8x 3/8 with carbon fiber laminated on all
four sides. Also use 4-40 threaded wire ends.Finally support them
down the fuse. Oh yes, if possible consider spliting the elevators
and useing two pushroda and two servos. If one then fails you always
have the other.
Tom
|
| 438.11 | pushrods and the bully | TALLIS::LADD | | Mon Feb 01 1988 21:11 | 28 |
| yes, i've considered splitting the elevator into independent systems.
certainly would take some of the load off the push rods. problem
is i can't think of how to do it without compromising looks. the
kit had supplied with it a single metal control horn that allow
a single pushrod to power 2 elevator halves. problem is the horn
that the pushrod connects to must be inside the fuse which is pretty
narrow at the end. also in the full up elevator position, the control
horn is imbedding itself into the leading edge of the rudder so
i'm instructed to gouge a spot out of the rudder for this. with
2 separate control horns it will get tight and i will also have
to anchor the horn down where it pivots, whereas before the hinges
on the elevator would have been enough. make sense? hard to explain
without pictures and waving hands! anyways its a good suggestion
and i will continue to ponder, wanna get my hands on a fiberglass
arrow shaft and flex it and weigh it...
yes, the ailerons will be powered by separate servos.
al, circus sells 2 bullies, one glo and one ignition (gas). they
are the same price but i cant imagine how they made the non-ignition
one the same price. you mentioned people were running bullies with
glo, does that mean no ignition? if i'm gonna replace the intake
and carb anyways can i get the ignition version and convert it back
to glo if desired. seems like a waste to pay for their "deluxe
lorto carb and pump" if i'm gonna throw it away. pump, really?
help me al, after all, you started all this!
kevin
|
| 438.12 | GLO - NO IGNITION....... | WAZOO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Wed Feb 03 1988 13:26 | 19 |
| Kevin,
The guys I'm personally acquainted with who run Bully's buy the
glo-version (no-ignition) then substitute an O.S. 7D carb via a
Don Lien adaptor plate. I am aware of modelers who run the Bully
[apparently] successfully with the stock pumper-carb but have in-
adequate information to make an intelligent comparison. Incidentally,
the O.S. carbed versions are being run "without" pumps, which I
heartily agree with as pumps are just one more thing to cause prob-
lems when you least expect [or can least afford] them.
I guess, if it were me, I'd probably try the stock carb first and
only substitute the O.S. if I didn't like the performance/handling
of the stocker. If you'd like to pick the brain of the guy who
probably knows more about Bully's than anyone, give Diego Lopez
a call...just tell him I recommended you call him - he'll be more
than happy to help. Diego's number is (714) 734-2228.
Adios, Al
|
| 438.13 | glo | TALLIS::LADD | | Wed Feb 03 1988 16:05 | 11 |
| thanks al, i'll build up some courage and give diego a call. i
did talk to don lien before i knew enough to ask intelligent questions.
his arguement was that the os carb improved fuel economy more than
performance. he agreed with you that the st2500 was not really
enough engine for the baker p47. he said the st2500 is good for
15 lbs thrust compared to 20 for the bully. he also had nothing
but praise for bert's p47 kit which is interesting since he is a
competitor with his hellcat and fockwulfs (i thot i once saw a p40
too).
kevin
|
| 438.14 | COMING SOON.........?? | MAUDIB::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Wed Feb 03 1988 17:23 | 13 |
| Kevin,
Don's announced the P-40 but I don't believe it's been released
as yet. Don's a real gentleman and gives credit where it's due
[regarding Bert's -47] and, it doesn't hurt that they're long-
time friends either.
Don's retracts look very nice also. I'll probably invest in a pair
as soon as I've decided what th' He** I'm gonna' build next, scale-
wise. BTW, Don is another of our out-of-town members of the 1/8
AF and I expect to see him next month at our Spring Fly-In [BASH].
Adios, Al
|
| 438.15 | time is slipping by... | TALLIS::LADD | | Mon Feb 15 1988 16:00 | 33 |
| work and home life have been hectic lately, and i fear i'm slipping
my p47 schedule. last week i received a cockpit kit from avco models
in michigan. somewhere between the time i ordered the kit and received
the merchandise, the business was sold to a mike cook somewhere
in texas. anyways, i am only mildly impressed with it - it dont
match the documentation it came with very well, the gunsight was
not available, and the quality of the dummy engine was so so.
next time i will build one from scratch but this will do for now.
however, armed with the required dimensions of the cockpit, i was
able to build and install the cockpit box. this was important in
that i know can plan radio installation since clearance under cockpit
is now known. its hard to believe that with such a big fuse, theres
so little space between top of wing and floor of cockpit.
i'm still waiting for retracts. latest estimate is end of feb.
i've covered bottom of wing with .6 cloth and nitrate (center
section reinforced with multiple layers of 2oz). the .6 cloth and
nitrate are both new experiences for me, and its been great. the
nitrate sands real well and i've learned how much talcum to mix
with the dope. after retracts are in (i havent yet even made the
cut-outs) im gonna double up the wind around the landing gear blocks
with 2oz cloth. the cloth feathers real nice after the initial
coat of straight nitrate.
next time i'm going to install the bellcranks in the wing upside-
down so i can install access covers. that way i can install the
pushrods that protrude from the wings after all sanding and painting.
the reason i'm covering the bottom of the wing first despite lack
of retracts is so i can install pushrods after sanding, then glue
bellcrank covers on top of wing, then cover top.
kevin
|
| 438.16 | y | TALLIS::LADD | | Tue Mar 01 1988 15:27 | 29 |
| well the p47 project continues to creep ahead slowly. this weekend
i carved the cutouts for the flap and aileron servos in the top-
center section of the wing. ailerons are powered by separate s131's
which sit very close to each other. the pushrods going out to the
bellcrank have to stay high in the wing to clear the main wheels
when retracted, but in spite of this the aileron cutouts go deep
into the wing. same for the flap servo (single s134) which has
to set deep in the wing so flap linkage dont collide with elevator/
rudder pushrods when wing is installed. to retain strength i lined
the cutouts with 3/32 ply, making a 10 minute job into a 2 hr job
+ epoxy setup time.
i also finished installation of bellcranks and pushrods for ailerons
(there are 6 pushrods for ailerons) and finally glued bellcrank
covers back on. now its sand till can't sand anymore, repeat for
several nights, and glass top of wing. that will be a major milestone
cause then i can fit wing to fuse, make a fillet, and then fuse
will be ready for primer. amen.
well, that may be premature cause i've yet to select an elevator
pushrod (i know i know, whats taking so long) and i havent yet
made the pushrod guides and the tailcone is already glued on,
this time for good. i anticipate inconvenience but not diseaster
by having only the rear opening, tailwheel opening, and wing opening
as access to where the pushrod guides need to be installed. we'll
see. i might postpone these decisions till my visit to phenix to
see how other juggies are installing pushrods.
i've got a lot to do till then, finish sand and glass all control
surfaces for instance. will need retracts soon too.
k
|
| 438.17 | bud mahurin arrived last night | TALLIS::LADD | | Thu Mar 03 1988 15:44 | 12 |
| last night ups man delivered 1/6 scale wwII pilot from AH designs
in england. it was cheap, $20 + 5 postage, and was all ready to
fly. you get what you pay for as i'm only mildly pleased with it.
clothes are fabric, head and vest are some kind of soft rubber.
gotta admit it does look good from 10-15 feet and is ready to go
and paid for.
how do people make functional (sliding) canopies? seems like it
would be easy to lose one in flight due to vibration and wind
blast.
kevin
|
| 438.18 | HERE'S ONE WAY........ | 16391::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Thu Mar 03 1988 17:18 | 43 |
| Kevin,
Sliding canopies are a whole 'nother dimension and ther're as many
methods for doing them as there are modelers [well, almost].
A current popular method involves using Plas-strut, the many shapes
and styles of which are usually readily available from the model
railroad section of most hobby shops.
Basically, a square cross section piece with a slot cut the length
of one side is attached to the edges of the cockpit and becomes the
rails. Then a piece if "H" section is attached to the inner sides
of the canopy. The "H" section is then slid into the slot in the
square section rails and, VOILA!...sliding canopy. Yer' right though,
some means of securing the canopy closed is necessary to prevent
its being sucked/blown off in flight.
I can show you this in more detail when I see you in a coupla weeks
but here's the basics of the idea.
\
\
\
_______________ \
| | | ||<----- CANOPY (attached to
SLOTTED SQUARE | | * | || "H" section slider)
SECTION PLAS-STRUT --->| |--------||
(fixed cockpit rails) | | * | ||
| /| | ||
-----/--------- |
/
/
"H" SECTION PLAS-STRUT (slides inside rails)
* = Some filler, like small square or "H" section used here to snug
the fit.
Incidentally, this idea was shown to me by "Doc" Keith and is the
method he used on his 1/5 scale SB2C Vindicator. Doc may be at our
meet this month as he frequently attends.
Adios amigo, Al
|
| 438.19 | Cycle the canopy with the retract servo? | CTHULU::YERAZUNIS | Snowstorm Canoeist | Thu Mar 03 1988 20:38 | 21 |
| re .-1, how to keep the canopy closed:
Have the canopy opened/closed by the same servo that actuates
the retracts! Many pilots in olden days liked to sit on the ground
and taxi with the canopy open, some even flying at low speeds that
way. (I seem to recall a modern STOL private plane that this was
explicitly permitted at speeds below 120kts, right there in the
pilot manual).
Advantages: Drag with the gear down is slightly more balanced,
as the topside drag of the open canopy somewhat offsets the downside
drag of the open gear. Scale ground operation is (debateably) more
realistic.
Disadvantages: Extra stress on the servo, running extra linkages, and
some difficulty in static exhibition (you have to make a decision as to
whether/how you want the gear to raise/lower (no pressure in tank,
maybe?) while you cycle the cockpit open and closed). Also you're
gonna get exhaust goop into your beautiful cockpit and all over the
pilot (but that's going to happen on any canopy that isn't sealed-down
tight anyway)
|
| 438.20 | | CLOSUS::TAVARES | John -- Stay low, keep moving | Thu Mar 03 1988 21:10 | 4 |
| However; remember the opening chapter in the book "The Right
Stuff", where the pilot of an SNJ took off with the canopy
cracked open and passed out from the exhaust fumes. I would say
that this is not a good feature on an SNJ model.
|
| 438.21 | MECHANICAL OPTIONS _NOT_ STATIC SCOREABLE......!! | MAUDIB::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Mar 04 1988 12:52 | 40 |
| Re: .-2,
Another [perhaps the most important] disadvantage to coupling the
sliding canopy to the retracts is that you're forced to open the
canopy when you extend the gear. For scale-like operation, gear
is normally deployed either following a military pitchout or some-
where in the landing pattern where flight speeds, though reduced,
are still more than sufficient to put a considerable air-load on
the servo/canopy rails and the poor servo and related linkage which
are the only things holding the canopy from flying off in the slip-
stream.
If you want to be tricky and servo-actuate the canopy, I highly
recommend you operate it from a separate aux channel so it can be
closed immediately prior to takeoff run and only opened after landing
roll out. The scale impression is great as you come to a stop at
the end of the runway, close the canopy and throttle up for the
takeoff roll. Then, opening the canopy during the taxi-back following
landing completes the illusion.
Incidentally, mechanical options such as sliding canopy, flaps,
etc. are _not_ demonstrated during static judging. The aircraft
must be displayed _exactly_ as it appears in the 3-view drawings.
That is to say, if the 3-view shows the ship with canopy closed
and flaps up, you expose yourself to possible downgrade if you dis-
play it for static judging with canopy open, flaps down...it may
look really trick _to you_ in this configuration but it distracts
the judge in terms of outline and loss of points can and does result.
Mechanical options [if you call them as scored optional maneuvers]
are only scoreable as part of the flight judging. A maximum of
three mechanicals [in AMA meets; two in Masters competition] are
allowed. If you choose [as I do] not to use mechanicals as flight
options, your flight score is still impacted by the use or non-use
of them in the 10-point flight realism category. That is, if the
retracts fail or you opt not to use flaps when the full scale ship
obviously used them as a matter of routine, downgrading of flight
realism will occur.
Adios, Al
|
| 438.22 | Look at the Pilots white scarf | K::FISHER | Battery, Mags, & Gas Off! | Fri Mar 04 1988 15:49 | 28 |
| > Have the canopy opened/closed by the same servo that actuates
> the retracts! Many pilots in olden days liked to sit on the ground
> and taxi with the canopy open, some even flying at low speeds that
> way. (I seem to recall a modern STOL private plane that this was
> explicitly permitted at speeds below 120kts, right there in the
> pilot manual).
Olden days are relative here. In the Navy it was standard procedure on
planes that did not have Martin-Baker ejection seats that you would
take off and land with the canopy open. It may have varied from plane to
plane but I can tell you from experience that AD1 Skyraiders always had
the canopy open for their cat shots and arrested landings. Also I took
a flight off the USS Oriskany in a Douglas A3D and we had the top hatch
open. The reason for this is obvious - if you take a cold cat or break
a wire on landing and go in the drink you can crawl out of the plane.
One of the hazards of canopies is that when the airframe becomes damaged
the canopy probably will be jammed in whatever position it was in last.
That is why modern jets all have tall seats and fire the ejection seats
thru the canopy. If they tried to open it and it only slid back a foot or
two and jammed they you would be faced with ejecting thru steel instead
of plastic. Course P-47s were not Navy planes so it is likely that the
Army welded the canopy shut after locking the pilot in :-)
_!_
Bye ----O----
Kay R. Fisher / \
================================================================================
|
| 438.24 | functional canopy sounds neat | TALLIS::LADD | | Fri Mar 04 1988 16:25 | 32 |
| boy, canopies sure can get complicated! i had intended all along
to just glue the canopy to fuze and end of story. the idea of having
a sliding canopy (whether operated manually or by servo) scares
me. i can just see if flying off first flight. i remember the
story of some guy (dan parsons?) losing a plane cause the canopy
flew off and took antennae with it.
anyhow i can't seem to resist bells and whistles, and a servo-
operated canopy sounds kinda neat. i'm not too worried about
fuel getting in the cockpit as the exhaust will exit out the
bottom. attaching the canopy to retract servo is a neat idea,
especially since i already plan to use my 7th and last channel
for drop tank (tho i can imagine ways to combine drop tank and
canopy on 1 servo). time to read my p47 pilot manual again,
tho i'm sure ill just glue the damn canopy to the fuse.
on another subject i talked to bert baker again. the retracts
are built and he was willing to take my order. the retracts
will cost the same as the kit was, ouch.
bert also told me how he makes elevator pushrods for his jugs.
first he says he doesnt know of anyone splitting the elevators
with separate pushrods. he uses 3/8" square medium weight
balsa with no carbon fiber or nothing! instead
he installes a "loop guide" at midpoint of rod to prevent
bowing. he thinks servos take less vibration due to lightweight
rod and claims hes never had a failure. he also says lots of
people disagree with him. it certainly keeps weight out of the
tail.
kevin
|
| 438.25 | DON'T DO IT...... | MAUDIB::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Mar 04 1988 16:53 | 30 |
| Kevin,
I'd sure recommend [again] against coupling canopy to retracts.
You simply don't have enough control over the airspeed at which
the canopy opens. Another option is to forget about servo actuation
and simply make the canopy maunally slideable...it _does_ look neat
siting in the pits with the canopy back and the flaps down. This
is how Bob Frey does his ships. When it's time to fly, he simply
slides the canopy shut and secures it with a pin, screw or whatever
so it can't blow/vibrate open/off.
If yer' still intrigued with the idea of servo actuation, consider
using that jackscrew servo you see advertised in the mags...it has
a 2 1/2 or 3 inch throw negating the need for exotic linkage to
increase a conventional servo's throw. Also, you could rig the
jackscrew to operate from the overtravel of another channel via
micro-switches...we used to use high/low throttle trim for this
type operation but the high throttle position on the newer breed
of radios is unaffected by trim lever position so it'd be stickier
to implement. Were I you, I'd just glue the canopy on or make it
manually slideable only.
Adios amigo, Al
P.S. BTW, the reason the departing canopy on Parsons' ME-210 took
the Rx antenna with it was that Dan had passed the antenna out "through"
the canopy in the scale exit position. If an antenna isn't rigged
to exit directly through the canopy, the chances of it being torn
off by a departing canopy are very slight, though stranger things
have happened.
|
| 438.28 | You're right- scale points... | CTHULU::YERAZUNIS | Snowstorm Canoeist | Mon Mar 07 1988 16:02 | 13 |
| Re: back a few: You're right, having the canopy on the same servo
as the retracts may well cost you scale points...
Is it reasonable to assume you will drop bombs ONLY when the canopy
is closed? If so, a single jack-screw servo will do everything...
Overtraveling the jack-screw to the closed-canopy position can release
the bomb trapeze. The jack-screw has plenty of force and a
realistically slower-than-bellcrank action.
Go for it!
-Bill
|
| 438.29 | Bombs Away - Now - Really! | K::FISHER | Battery, Mags, & Gas Off! | Mon Mar 07 1988 19:23 | 14 |
| > is closed? If so, a single jack-screw servo will do everything...
> Overtraveling the jack-screw to the closed-canopy position can release
> the bomb trapeze. The jack-screw has plenty of force and a
> realistically slower-than-bellcrank action.
Ah - but you want the Bomb drop to be very responsive - if the delay
between the Bombardier pushing the pickle and the release is long you will
have a hard time hitting the target!
_!_
Bye ----O----
Kay R. Fisher / \
================================================================================
|
| 438.30 | Have to test it... | CTHULU::YERAZUNIS | Snowstorm Canoeist | Tue Mar 08 1988 13:38 | 9 |
| I suppose a lot depends on whether you're doing straight-and-level
bombing or dive-bombing. Straight-and-level *does* need fast release,
but a dive bomber can afford a 1/2 second wait.
Besides, cockpit canopies don't snap open and closed like
switchblades... at least not if they're manually actuated.
I guess the only way to see is to boilerplate it up and test it.
|
| 438.31 | pee-47 | TALLIS::LADD | | Tue Mar 08 1988 20:57 | 42 |
| great stuff on cockpits. i looked at some plasti-track or whatever
this weekend. the selection of sizes wasnt so great. al, how big
were the 'h' rails? 1 size looked miniscule and the next huge,
like 1/4 inch wide.
i went to the sporting good store and bought me a couple arrow shafts.
aluminum instead of fiberglass. great stuff but will i have radio
interference problems?
i called larry wolf a week or so ago about fs numbers for 56th
fighter group. he gave me 3 possible numbers for top olive-drap
and 2 for grey. he says i need to give him more info, either a
5 digit fs number, a 3 digit wwII number, or a name like "medium
green". he also said to check a book entitled "camoflauge and
markings" by harley ford or some such person. finally he recommended
calling the smithsonian. sheesh, nothings easy.
the top of the wing is covered at long last. sure looks pretty,
too pretty for a warbird. next to do on wing (in lieu of retracts)
is the fillet to fuse. the fiberglass fits ok but ends too abruptly.
i think i need to sand back fillet on fuse to sharp edge and build
up filet with resin/microballons on wing to make smooth transition
from fuse to wing.
as a side note its true, i flew my little auction-bought p47 for
first time today. i'll call it the pee47. took a while to get
engine running thanks to infamiliarity with multiple needle valves
and 2 bad glow plugs (the second not so bad as the first). thanks
dan, i'll replace the plug you gave me. takeoff was in about 20
feet, good for such a heavy model with 54" wingspan. for first
few minutes it was all over the sky. finally calmed down with
full down trim and slight aileron. the como .51 has balls, flew
briskly at half throttle for 15 minutes. landing was a repeat
of ankers robinhood. wheel flew off in landing roll (ok, it was a
bounce). no damage, just a missing wheel collar. you dont realize
how bad that field is till you see it in winter when there is no
grass. plus i had to put it down quick cause i didnt think i could
make it to the other side of the huge puddle that spanned the middle
of the runway...
gotta go
kevin
|
| 438.32 | JUST MAKE IT S T R O N G ...... | MAUDIB::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Wed Mar 09 1988 14:33 | 35 |
| Kevin,
I haven't picked through the selection of Plas-strut for awhile
but, if nothing's available in between the sizes you saw, I'd opt
for the 1/4" stuff. Even with the canopy tightly sealed shut, there's
a considerable low-pressure area above the canopy trying to suck
it off so all the beef you can provide is advised.
What you mention about forming a resin/balloons ramp up to smoothly
meet the wing fillet is S.O.P. hereabouts. I learned it from Bob
Frey and used the method on the MiG-3's fillet...really slick -
the slight ramp-up is not detectable and it makes the plane look
like it's one-piece rather than having a removeable wing. Try it,
you'll like it. One suggestion: use masking tape to mask the ramp
about 1-2" outboard of the fillet on the wing. When the balloons
have cured, feather sand into the fillet _and_ into the tape, then
pull the tape and feather into the wing itself. This is easier/cleaner
to do than to randomly apply the balloons, trying to feather into
the wing with a moistened finger.
Who makes the little pee-47 you got ahold of? At 54" I can't zero
in on the kit...I think Meister's (JEMCO) was slightly larger but
maybe not. Unfortunately, this small, overpowered bird may not
do much to prepare you for the Baker Jug. You might try flying
around at reduced power to try to simulate the feel of the bigger
bird, staying comfortably above stall speed of course.
Adios amigo, Al
P.S. 8-days and counting to D-Day [yer' Arizona invasion]. Man,
if the weather we've had for the past 6-weeks or so holds, yer'
gonna love it! My only concern, weatherwise, at the moment is that
it might be too warm, approaching 90F. Not to worry though, the
humidity'll be less than 10% and we'll have plenty of Colorado Kool-aid
on hand.
|
| 438.33 | fillet 'o wing | HOLST::LADD | | Wed Mar 09 1988 22:12 | 47 |
| al, i stole the wing fillet idea from a dave platt article in flying
models some time back. havent tried it yet, but sounds easy, and
no doubt is common practice for you long-toothed veterans. the
suggestion of using masking tape to end the ramp on the wing is
a new/good one, it will keep the ramp aligned and prevent me from
sanding into the wing accidently. for others interested in full
procedure, here it is as i remember it.
1. tack monokote to wing where it meets fuse and where fillet will
be.
2. bolt wing to fuse.
3. make microballoon/superpoxy slurry and make fillet slightly
oversized, let dry.
4. remove wing, may require a rap. remove monokote.
5. sand outer edge or fillet so its about 1/16 inch thick, edge
is for strength.
6. tack string of monokote to this edge, remove bottom overhang
with razor.
7. bolt wing back on fuse.
8. al says put a strip of masking tape where fillet will end on
wing.
9. again with uballoons/resis, make wing half of fillet and let
harden. monokote will is a dam to isolate fillet into 2
separate halves.
10. with razor trim exposed monokote. sand/shape fillet.
11. remove wing, remove now tiny strip of monokote from edged of
fillet. fillet should now be almost invisible when wing is
installed.
how'd i do, al. again, i havent tried this, but the toughest part
sure sounds to be sand/shaping the fillet free-hand. in the case
of the baker p47 the fillet already looks pretty good on the fuse.
to make it look real good, tho, i think i have to sand back some
of that fillet and build on to it. i remember al talking about
compatibility of polyester resin and epoxy fuses. this fuse is
epoxy. do i have to mix epoxy with microballoon, superpoxy sands
easer...
the pee47 is of unknown origin. the 54" wingspan i measured from
tip to tip, not from tip to bottom to tip, so maybe with dihedral
the span really is 56". i would like to know whose kit it is.
i doubt jemco, partly cause it dont look that good and because the
wing is built-up balsa and unsheeted whereas i think the jemco
model is foam wing. other possibities are top flite (60" span,
nope), and champion (i think 52" span).
kevin
|
| 438.34 | SOUNDS RIGHT ON TO ME....... | MAUDIB::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Thu Mar 10 1988 13:11 | 29 |
| Kevin,
You did fine. Naturally, steps 1-thru-? won't apply to you as that
part of the fillet is already molded into the glass fuse of the
Baker Jug.
I like the Monokote for masking the edge of the fuse fillet. I
used plain ol' black electricians tape which worked OK but was a
little ornery to keep stuck tightly throughout the entire process
and produced a wider [though acceptable] gap. Platt uses Monokote
for all sorts of clever little building techniques but absolutely
loathes the stuff as a covering/finishing material.
Yer' correct about the toughest part being the shaping/sanding [ain't
it always?] but it ain't that tough if yer' careful with the
resin/balloon mixture...keep it a dry, fluffy mix using as little
resin and as much balloons as possible and the stuff sands quite
easily while remaining almost bullet proof - great stuff.
As to compatibility, yes..., if the fuse is of epoxy/glass
construction, then epoxy resin should be used with the balloons.
It follows, of course, that is the wing skin is already glassed
using epoxy, epoxy resin should be used here also. I can't guarantee
you'd run into difficulty trying to use polyester resin over epoxy
but why risk it, right? I _do_ know that K&B polyester resin takes
an eternity [many weeks/months] to cure over 5-minute epoxy, epoxylite,
etc. so _I_ sure wouldn't take the risk.
Adios, Al
|
| 438.35 | | BSS::TAVARES | John -- Stay low, keep moving | Thu Mar 10 1988 13:14 | 3 |
| Did the procedure say something about putting saran wrap or waxed
paper between the wing and fuse while you're adding the
epoxy/microballon mixture?
|
| 438.36 | WE _WANT_ PART OF THE FILLET ON THE WING..... | MAUDIB::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Thu Mar 10 1988 13:22 | 15 |
| John,
That's what tacking Monokote to the wing accomplishes in the first
steps of the process where the first part fillet is applied to the
fuse. For most sport-type applications, this is probably as far
as you'd want to go.
For scale, however, we don't want a _step_ between the wing and
the edge of the fillet so a _ramp_ is applied to the wing to transition
smoothly into the fuse fillet. In this process, only the edge of
the fuse fillet is masked as we _want_ the balloons to stick to
the desired area of the wing. It's a little tough to describe but
I hope this clears it up for you.
Adios, Al
|
| 438.37 | more fillets | TALLIS::LADD | | Thu Mar 10 1988 15:20 | 16 |
| thanks al for the clarification, that was a key tidbit of info
i didnt mention... since my wing is covered with cloth and nitrate,
i'm not sure which to mix with microballoons, but it'd probably
better be the same as the fillet on the fuse for consistent
sandability.
incidently, i experimented with polyester resin (regular hardware
store kind and k&b superpoxy) and epoxy on the baker epoxy fuse.
i didnt see any better adherance with epoxy and no funny reactions
with polyester resins, so i used polyester for some critical things
like joining the tailcone! seems ok.
i didnt hear any yells of "dont do it" about the aluminum arrow
shaft pushrod. i'm still kinda worried about radio interference.
kevin
|
| 438.38 | WELL, _I_ WOULDN'T USE THEM........!! | MAUDIB::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Thu Mar 10 1988 15:43 | 27 |
| Kevin,
The only reason I failed to comment on the aluminum arrowshaft pushrods
is that, frankly, it slipped my mind.
Now, I _know_ that technological improvements in today's radio systems
are supposed to've virtually eliminated sensitivity to mechanical
[metal-to-metal] noise and the secondary-antenna effect of all metal
control rods, BUT..., I remember all too well the problems we
experienced with earlier proportional radios due to these factors.
Call me old fashioned if you must but, as long as the means are
available to avoid these one-time glitch producing factors, I'll
opt to do so every time. I still avoid metal-to-metal contact
everywhere possible and remain aware of the secondary-antenna effects
of running long pieces of metal parallel to the Rx antenna.
For these reasons, I'd listen to my gut-feel and use those aluminum
shafts to make, well, maybe arrows out of, opting instead for fiber-
glass arrowshaft or some other non-metallic material for pushrods.
My motto was, is and always shall be: BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY!
I'd like to think that my low crash-to-years in the hobby ratio
has resulted, to some tangible measure, from adhering to this phil-
osophy.
Adios amigo, Al
|
| 438.39 | retracts | TALLIS::LADD | | Mon Jun 20 1988 21:19 | 18 |
| contrary to popular belief, the p47 project is not dead. over the
last few months progress has been slow. but the big news is that
i've got the bully and the retracts.
the retracts (scale flight made by gene barton) are really impressive
with spring loaded shocks and sort of functional scissors(?) i was
finally able to cut out the landing gear blocks and epoxy them into
the wings. the big big chore has been beefing up the walls and
bottoms of the cutouts for the retracts and wheels. it was amazing
how much material (foam) was removed just to get the wheels to fit
in the wing, not much strength left. another fun part was figuring
out how to power the inner landing gear doors. ended up with cable
system. i should be fiberglassing the inside of the wheel wells
early this week and finish fiberglassing the rest of the wing also.
will soon have the whole beast in primer and ready for test flight!
soon is defined as before winter!
kevin
|
| 438.40 | bully is a bear | TALLIS::LADD | | Thu Jul 28 1988 21:59 | 36 |
| well, the p47 is in primer and almost made its maiden flight a week
ago while i was on vacation. the biggest holdup is the muffler
for the bully. the manifold i bought from circus was too big to
fit in the cowl, so i hacksawed all but the first inch of tubing
from it and added a silicon extension held by automotive hose clamp.
problem is the turn is tight so theres more back pressure than i'd
like. also during engine run tests the tubing split at this
connection. this affected back-pressure which probably affected
needle adjustment which... needless to say i must fix this to get
consistent engine runs.
i did have a problem with the bully. on the teststand i couldnt
control high speed, couldnt get it to run rich. i remembered the
instructions warned of these symptoms if too small a diameter fuel
tubing was used. i did that but forgot about the fuel tank that
i'd assembled many months earlier. i used fat tubing in the tank,
larger brass tubing, and even drilled out the klunk. much better.
i'm still getting only 7,600 rpm with a 20x8 prop, it pulls like
hell but instructions say i should get upto 9,600 rpm with that
prop (well, maybe they meant an 18x8).
i also havent got down the technique of starting the bully. it
seems to want to be primed frequently and seems to want to run
backwards 90% of the time, no matter which direction i flip the
prop (with a piece of lumber).
another nagging problem is i have no pump to pressurize retract
system. backordered everywhere it seems. in a pinch i'll lock
the gear down.
during taxi tests i ventured in the grass and ripped off a tailwheel
gear door.
anker, have you flown your f16 yet?
kevin
|
| 438.41 | Well, not quite there yet | PERFCT::ANKER | Anker Berg-Sonne | Fri Jul 29 1988 21:15 | 40 |
| Re:< Note 438.40 by TALLIS::LADD >
Kevin,
No, I haven't flown the F16 yet. I'm putting the final
coats of paint on it and plan to have the maiden flight on Sunday
the 13'th (it's Sunday, may be one off on the date) IF I can find
a good site to fly from. This planned to be a major event with
lots of spectators, still and video cameras, t-short concessions
and so on. I have promised to make the event public just in case
it turns out to be the terminal flight too.
I need to ask Kay if we can get permission to have such
an event at Orange. I would like a lot of runway and be able to
keep spectators at a safe distance in the right direction and
can't think of a better site. If I can get permission to fly and
also have lots of visitors I will plan to get there fairly early
in the morning between 9 and 10 and have the major event shortly
thereafter.
The technique I plan to use is to have a couple of runs
down the runway without taking off, which will allow me to get a
feel for the bes`ast before I commit myself. Then, when I feel
real confident, I'll go for it.
Oh, it forgot. I'll want to fly the Super Sportster .60
once or twice first.
Hope it works out
_
/ |
| _====____/==|
|-/____________|
| | o \
O \
O
Hang in there! o_|_
|
Anker \_|_/
|
| 438.42 | p47 almost in action | TALLIS::LADD | | Thu Aug 25 1988 17:13 | 57 |
| its been a long time since i've said anything about the p47. the
heat of the last many weeks definately slowed me down.
the p47 is in primer and looks pretty good. i used ditzler epoxy
primer (dp40) which is a light shade of green, not bad for a warbird.
i still have much puttying, sanding, painting etc for final product,
but this first coat will keep the glow fuel from attacking the nitrate
dope, and will help prevent the "paint syndrome" (fear of flying
a plane cause it looks too good to risk crashing).
the canopy is temporarily held on with a combination of rc56 and
black tape. it looks only slightly bogus with the tape. i'm quite
confident it wont blow off in flight and i can get it off later
without destroying.
the bully is mounted inverted. looked like it would not quite fit
right-side-up unless thrustline was lowered from scale. i should
add that, while don lien has cashed my check, i have no carb adapter
or shaft extension yet, so engine is totally stock. i might have
been able to mount engine rightside up if it set back in the cowl
more. a benefit of this setup is that the engine is way forward
and reduces the amound of nose weight needed (none yet).
oh, while on the subject of balance. instructions only say
recommended balance point is 20% of chord, 15% for test flights.
i assume he means at the center section for this tapered wing.
i am certain the p47 is currently nose heavy at 15%. i know the
cg for the pee47 is much further rearward.
currently the p47 weighs in at 21 pounds. this is light for this
model and is due to minimal paint at this point and the lack of
nose weight (shailesh had 4 lbs).
engine runs good, even idle despite inverted. starting is another
story. i use a chicken stick. it loves to start backwards. i
am still learning how to prime it and start it reliably. i often
flood it, a problem aggravated by the inverted cylinder. it runs
real strong once going, turning a 20x8 prop at 7500 rpm at a
reasonable needle setting. exhaust system is combination of tatone
incowl muffler going to a second baffle made from a soup can! the
can is just to get the exhause out at the bottom of the cowl, it
doesnt effect noise level that much. sound by the way is great.
retract system works pretty good. hopefully ive found the last
bug. reservoir is made with a soldered wd40 can. air is pumped
in with a bicycle foot pump. connecter between pump and rhomair
filler is a normal needle used to infate basketballs, etc with
retract tubing shoved over the end of it. simple.
i need a bigger fuel tank. 16oz tank is marginal with i'm guessing
8 min runs at full throttle. definately need to know before first
flight.
otherwise i just need to be more familiar with engine before first
flight. a few weeks away. gulp.
kevin
|
| 438.43 | GIVE DON A CALL...... | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Thu Aug 25 1988 17:51 | 22 |
| Kevin,
Don is a straight a guy as they come but he's been terribly
preoccupied/disorganized the past two years as he struggled to run
the business and design/build a new house while living/working out
of a small trailer on the homesite. I talked to him at Riverside
last month and he said he's finally moved in and gettin' a leg-up
on getting things reorganized. Give him a call as a reminder and
I'm sure he'll come right through for you. (I have the number if
you don't.) Lemme' know if you need my assistance.
Yes, the 15-20% of chord refers to at-the-root. Bob flies his Jugs
(actually, _all_ his planes) _at_least_ that noseheavy quite
successfully. The only negative I'v seen to this is the landing
flair _must_ be timed correctly as his planes will run-out-of-elevator
should you miss.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.45 | first flight | RICKS::KLADD | | Tue Sep 06 1988 21:30 | 95 |
| well, saturday was the big day. after much tweaking, fiddling, adjusting, and
debugging, i felt ready to fly the p47.
we showed up at the field quite early. it was still a bit foggy, but mild wind
and no audience, perfect for me. i unloaded the jug, put it all together,
fueled it up, and then stalled for an hour or so flying the little pee47.
this thing with a human being in it came along and taxied nearby. it looked
like an autogiro, definately a deathtrap. the guy never took off, once he
really revved the engine up and it seemed to get light and skid sideways.
kay could be heard to say "aw geeze, i dont want to havta take this guy to the
hospital". finally the guy and his contraption went away.
we started the jug and fiddled for a bit. i wanted to make sure it would run
a complete tank at the current needle setting. i'm still not completely
happy with throttle response. anyways, twenty minutes and 1 glowplug later,
i declare it ready for flight.
fuel it up, start it up, and taxi down the runway and turn around. kay mans
the video camera. my life flashes before my eyes as i ease in the throttle
and right rudder. the tail lifts up quickly. it rolls past us and slowly
rises off the tar. it looks like its in slow motion. fearing a stall i
slowly bank into a left turn and come around. it feels great, just looks slow!
i pull up landing gear as it flies overhead.
next few minutes i fly figure 8ish pattern getting to know this bird. it flies
just superbly. aileron response is nice and slow, the first testflight of a
new bird where i didnt have too much throw. i then lower landing gear,
reduce throttle just a bit, and play with flaps. no noticeable change in
attitued. this is great, i expected a wing or the nose to drop, instead it
just flies slower.
i decide that its flying fine, just looks slow cause its so damn big,
especially compared to the pee47. make a practice approach, not bad, not
great, time for the real thing. it sure looks impressive in a flyby.
the landing approach was slightly across the runway due to wind direction.
as i was only 1/4 turn away from approach i reduced throttle. flaps were
half down. plane drops like a stone. heres where the trip to arizona paid
off as i watched many baker jugs land the same way, they really drop and slow
down! i was ready for it.
the p47 gently kissed the ground and eventually rolled to a stop at my feet.
one of the most, maybe the most, exhilerating moments of my short rc career.
best thing is its on video tape and i've watched that flight many times since.
al, i remember what you said about bob frey's p47 almost running out of up
elevator while flaring for landing. i think (altho things happened so fast
i dont really remember) by the time the plane touched down i was at full up.
in the future i might try bringing back the cg.
after my pulse slowed down a couple fliers with their jets showed up. they'd
tried the week before to convince me to take the jug up, but it was too windy.
it was at least as windy as the day of the funfly in orange. this day the
wind was mild and the jug was already proven airworthy. time to show it off.
second takeoff started just as the first. but as the plane went by me, the
right main wheel separated from the strut! luckily the plane was light and
i was able to pull up, but ship, how was i gonna land. man, i had checked
everything, much to kay's chagrin. all bolts on the retracts except for the
ones holding the axles on had been checked. i'd taken the wing off and checked
everything, and even the cowl. but not the stupid set screws for the axles.
so after flying around it was decided to land on the belly in the grass. while
i was up, and since i was about to stove up my plane, i tried a roll. not bad
but aileron response is slow and that sucker drops.
the landing was made parallel to runway, flaps up. it glided a lot further
this time, hit the ground, and slid about 40 feet. looked like minimal
damage. as we approached the plane we couldnt believe it. no damage, nada,
nothing but a bent exhaust exit which we bent back. the primer on the bottom
wasnt even scratched. im starting to like this plane more and more.
i fixed the axles the way i should have in the first place, filing a groove and
reinstalling with locktite. this was easily done at the field. everything
else was holding tight.
third flight was so uneventful it aint worth talking about. all in all i was
thrilled with the p47. it flies so smoothly i cant believe it. my pee47 is
an absolute joke in comparison. i'm dying to fly again. maybe 5 flights next
time.
i still have concerns with the engine and am going to continue bench running
it. i got to admit its the best idling engine ive ever had, and now that i
have some experience its easy to start (it loves to start backwards).
also need larger fuel tank. will also be adding landing gear doors before
winter, which is when i plan on detailing the bird.
at this point i definately want to compete in orange next summer. am even
considering a second p47. i figure i could build a second plane in less than
half the time and with way less than have the money since i already have engine,
retracts, servos, etc.
later,
kevin
|
| 438.55 | Bubble or razorback? | MDSUPT::EATON | Dan Eaton | Fri Sep 09 1988 19:09 | 18 |
| Hey Kevin,
Chris and I just got back from watching the P47. Neat stuff! Gawd
I love the sound of those big engines. As an added bonus the CAF
had 'SHOW ME', their B25 sitting out in the sun along with a nice
shiny TEXAN. The hanger was also open. Inside was a Trojan, Bird
Dog, high wing monoplane with Spanish (?) markings, and a yellow
bi-plane in Navy markings that I can't identify.
I snapped off a bunch of pictures. Then they got the crowd back
and fired up that hummer. He took off, made a couple of low passes,
and then headed off towards the Mississippi River to follow it to
downtown St. Louis.
Chris and I came up with a question for you on the way back. This
P47 had the bubble canopy. Which came first, bubble or razorback,
and why.
Dan Eaton
|
| 438.56 | What I was told was... | LEDS::COHEN | | Fri Sep 09 1988 20:44 | 12 |
|
The razor back was first, because the canopy was made from glass,
and thats just how they faired the window pane style metal frame
into the fuselage. Design wise they certainly could have
approximated a bubble style canopy with metal framework,
apparently no one thought about it, though. Bubble canopies
arrived on the scene with the advent of plexiglass, which allowed
the production of the bubble style canopies because it could be
molded. The razor back fairing was eliminated to provide the
pilot with better visibility. This style canopy was also used on
the P51, the bombadier windscreen in B-29s, and many other
aircraft designed or redesigned toward the end of the war.
|
| 438.58 | THE RAZORBACK WAS FIRST..... | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Sep 09 1988 20:58 | 36 |
| Dan, Chris,
Hope Kevin doesn't mind my horning in but I thought I'd give ya's
the skinny on yer' question.
As was the case with the Mustang and Spitfire (and probably some
others), the razorback Jug was first. Reason? Advancing technology.
The technology necessary to fabricate a full-blown bubble plexiglas
canopy was only just surfacing in the early 40's and it was far
easier to build a greenhouse canopy fairing back into a raised
turtledeck. Visibility was always a problem with these "razorbacks"
and some attempts were made to compensate: both the P-51A, B & C
and all P-40's had half-oval shaped windows behind the pilot to
enhance his rearward vision; the Spit used a blown, framless canopy,
called a Malcom-hood to enable the pilot to look out-and-down, back
etc. In fact, the Malcom-hood was commonly adapted to the P-51
prior to the advent of the "D" model. The P-47 had concave sides
to the turtledecking which met in the sharp spine which became dubbed
"razorback." This enabled the pilot to look rearward through the gap
between the concave sides and the unsealed rear of the canopy.
With the advent of the bubble canopy, all these ships (except the
P-40 which was too dated to justify such a radical mod.) were converted
to bubble canopies. An odd side-effect of this change was that
the increased turbulence behind the bubble actually caused a
diminishing of speed upwards or 15 mph and some pilots retained
their older mounts, preferring the better speed. Most pilots, however,
realized the 360-degree visibility provided by the bubble-canopy
was one hell of a life-saver and made the swap without remorse.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.59 | mines a p47d5 (razerback) | RICKS::KLADD | | Fri Sep 09 1988 21:10 | 24 |
| as already mentioned, the p47 first appeared as the razerback,
with birdcage-like canopy. the bubble canopy didnt appear till
quite late in the game, er, war.
people often equate the p47d as the bubble canopy version. not
true, all p47b's, c's and d1 thru i think d22 were razerbacks,
with p47d23 the first bubble canopy. in reading the history of
the p47, i am amazed at how many changes and refinements were made
to this ship over the course of the war.
p47g's were a special case, built by another company. i dont
remember all details but al casey will.
another tidbit, the bubble canopy allowed visiblity behind the
aircraft which was found to be vital. however, the lack of the
razerback spine cause pilots to complain about the planes lack of
stability. later bubble versions had a small dorsal fin added
behind the canopy to get back some of the "fin area" lost by
removing the razorback.
scott, yes we simulated a gear up crash landing in the english
countryside very authentically!
kevin
|
| 438.61 | flights 4 and 5, pass the epoxy | RICKS::KLADD | | Tue Sep 20 1988 21:26 | 109 |
| sunday kay and i went flying in orange. we arrived early around 9am and
expected the usual calm relaxed flying conditions (no crowds). instead we
walked into a fairly big-time rc helicopter fun fly. when we first got there
there was randy king (pres of mohawk valley flyers) and one or 2 other pilots.
by the time i got the p47 put together, i had 5 or 6 people standing over me
and another 5 or 6 still unloading helicopters out of their cars. by midday
i bet there were 25-30 helicopters and half as many pilots. one guy crashed
early and claimed radio interference; it sure made a loud thud when it hit the
grass.
before coming to the field i had changed the fuel tank in the jug, 24oz instead
of 16oz to give me more time in the air. i had also elevated the tank a bit
in the engine box as a desperation attempt to get the engine running richer;
i've had trouble from day one with that bully controlling high speed with the
high speed needle. i also had replaced the former in the tailcone upon which
the tailwheel is bolted. the new former has much more contact area with the
fuse and should be less apt to come loose when hitting the cracks on the
runway in orange.
i started up the bully and it ran ok for a minute or so. then it began
starving for fuel at high speed, worse than before. after the usual fiddling
we tore the carb apart. inside were several slivers of plastic. i had a
filter from the fuel pump to the tank but not from the tank to the carb. the
new tank apparently had plastic burrs in it but we didnt quite figure this out
till we had reinstalled the cleaned carb in the plane, run it again, and still
had trouble with high speed. at this point i was sick of it all and packed
the p47 away and watched helicopters.
there were 2 more terrific crashes. one was ernie huber(sp) who was doing
amazing maneuvers till he was too low and too far away and lost radio contact.
i didnt thing this could happen with eyesight the range limit, but heard he
had some kind of funny receiver antennae. perhaps helis vibrate more too?
i didnt see the actual impact but parts went everywhere. he had a new engine
in it which was still running (screaming is more like it) when people arrived
at the scene. i understand engine had 0 compression afterwards.
later in the day i dragged out the p47 and tinkered far away from the flying
activity. randy king tore down the carb thoroughly for me while i put the old
fuel tank back in. randy found plastic as he took everything imaginable apart.
we also discovered that the carb adapter was installed upside down. theres a
little pinhole in the crankcase where it mates with this adapter, with a
pinhole also in the adapter. with the adapter upside down this hole was
blocked. this hole supplies crankcase pressure (i'm told) which powers the
pump in that delato(sp) carb. great! the old fuel starvation problem was
finally solved and the new severe problems were cause by debris in the newly
installed tank. with everything put back together, and a fuel filter borrowed
from kay installed, we were ready to try again (at least 5 man hours later).
we brought the p47 back to the flight line and ran and adjusted the engine.
for the first time ever, it responded to the high speed needle valve normally
(before it would stop richening after about 3 turns out, just rich enough to
run dependably).
by now most fliers had packed and many were just waiting for me to fly before
they left. i needed that pressure like i needed a hole in my head. after
more tweaking and adjusting i taxied out. sure enough my tailwheel was out
of alignment after replacing that former. oh well, the tail lifts off quickly
anyways.
i hit the gas and the jug executes its usual gorgeous takeoff (except for some
jerking of the rudder at beginning of takeoff roll due to tailwheel and nerves).
the plane flew the same as before, not very fast. after flying around for a
while i tried a roll; flew by, pitched up the nose, and full right aileron.
it rolled sooo slow, in fact i was only 30 feet high when i came around! kay
checked my dual rates and sure enough, they were on. with the rates off, the
second roll was pretty good. landing was uneventful except that the dual rates
were on for the elevator too, and i couldnt flare as much as i liked for the
landing.
as i defeated all dual rates on my xmitter, there was a mass exodus. nobody
left but kay, randy, and myself. i fueled her up and flew again.
for the second flight the bully was amazing! we didnt touch anything on the
engine between flights, but it was clearing running much, much stronger. i
was almost thinking of throttling back just to calm my nerves, whereas the
prev 4 flights i was nervous about the thing flying too slow and stalling.
kay convinced me to try an immelman, so from a very shallow dive i leveled
out 30 ft from the deck. then as it flew by i pulled it up into about a 300ft
loop. power was incredible. half roll at the top and it was still flying
fast. soon i was thinking maybe i should land, but we had a timer running and
id been up in the air less than 5 mins. when the timer did go off, i wasted
no time lowering the gear and lowering the throttle and flaps to half.
then it happened. as the plane was almost perpendicular to the runway, the
engine quit. my first deadstick landing and i was low and fairly slow. kay and
randy later told me they thot i could have made the 180+ degree turn and land
on the runway, but i elected to play it safe and only turn 90 degrees and land
across the runway. i still stand by that decision. what i should have done,
however, is just pull the gear up and land in the grass, cause i overshot the
tar and landed in the grass anyways. i think on tar it would have merely been
a rough landing, but in the grass it didnt roll far before the nose hit the
ground. damage was worse than i first thot. the cowl was ripped and the
screws holding the landing gear in pulled out. thats all ok, easy to fix.
however, i also bent a pin in one of the landing gears.
the landing gear required only minor "love taps" with a hammer to fix the
pin, and the landing gear blocks are all repaired. still, those retracts are
too expensive to treat that way, and i will be much more apt to pull them
into the safety of the wings next time i have to land in an inconvenent spot.
i'm still puzzled about the engine. i thot and still think i understand why
the high speed needle was misbehaving (that pluged hole to crankcase). what i
dont understand is why on that second flight the engine suddenly sprang to
life and had more power. i do know why it quit. until the 5th flight i
consistently got 6+ minutes/16 oz tank. on that last flight, running much
stronger, i RAN OUT OF FUEL in just over 5 minutes! back to the 24 oz tank
with a filter...
kevin
|
| 438.63 | flight 6, el gearo foldo | RICKS::KLADD | | Tue Sep 27 1988 20:48 | 36 |
| i got 1 more flight in last sunday at orange. i'd hoped for more
but i had a landing gear problem upon landing. sigh.
the problems with the bully carb appear to be fixed. i ran it
quite rich at about 7300 rpm's on the ground. hogan held the
plane while i warmed up the engine. he said "wow, does this thing
pull hard". that was at half throttle.
if there is still a problem with the engine, its with fuel consumption.
i'm consuming almost 3 oz per minute at full throttle. course thats
at rich needle setting.
the flight was uneventful. it was windy and this was the first
time the big jug was affected. i was a bit uncomfortable and didnt
even do a roll.
the landing was not a greaser, but it wasnt hard either. however,
the left main (the one damaged during flight #5) twisted inwards
upon impact and the resultant toein was 45 degrees. the jug continued
to roll forward for 20 feet i'd guess with the nose sloooowly dropping
and skidding on the ground due to the twisted gear. somewher during
the skid, the same left gear pulled from the blocks slightly as
well.
the problem was definately caused from poor repair from prev damage.
this time i think i've got it licked, but we'll see. kevin the
airplane mechanic chose to spend friday nite watching red sox rather
than working on planes!
it figures that the batteries on the video camera ran out just
before the landing. i'd like to see that one again. in the future
i'm going to try landing with more throttle to decrease vertical
speed during touchdown. either that or less nose weight. think
i'll try the throttle first.
kevin
|
| 438.64 | SEE, I DIDN'T FORGET YOU...... | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Sep 30 1988 22:07 | 20 |
| Kevin,
I remembered to get Gene Barton's address and phone number for you:
Gene Barton
c/o E. Barton Machining
11640 Salinas
Garden Grove,
CA 92643
(714) 539-9142
This is Gene's business address and phone number so call him during
business hours, California time (3-hours less than EST).
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.65 | YOU HAVE BUT TO ORDER ONE...... | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Mon Oct 03 1988 18:30 | 14 |
| Kevin,
I had occasion to speak with Gene Barton today and I happened to
remember to ask about the O.S. 7D carb adaptor for the Webra Bully.
Gene says he took all of Don Lien's [machineable] hardware items
(but none of his obligations). He currently has a number of the
adaptors which are priced at $35.00 each. Give him a call at the
number posted in .-1 and he'll get one on the way for you.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.66 | delato carb faces extinction | RICKS::KLADD | | Mon Oct 03 1988 21:14 | 18 |
| hey al,
i dont care what dan snow says about you, you're all right. thanks
for the number/address. i called gene and he indeed can help me
out with the carb adapter and the shaft extension. check will soon
be in the mail.
on a similar note i asked him what kind of fuel consumption he got
with his bully. he emphatically says he dont fly bullies but also
said diego gets 12+ minutes flights with his bully/os7d/32oz tank.
thats THIRTY_TWO ounces of fuel. pass the fuel pump. he said he
flies with 24oz tanks with his big supertigres. if anyone wants
to build a baker p47 to be used as an everyday flier, a gas engine
will be cheaper! for occasional flying the bully is still probably
the way to go.
thanks again al,
kevin
|
| 438.67 | PORNADA, AMIGO...... | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Mon Oct 03 1988 21:36 | 29 |
| Kevin,
I wasn't aware of the high fuel-consumption of the Bully; Sheesh,
that's nearly 3-oz. per minute!! Guess ya' gotta' pay the fiddler
if'n yer' gonna' dance, eh?
BTW, Gene's Super-Tigres are far from stock. He mills out the
combustion-chamber to resemble the domed chamber of a Moki and does
some other [mostly porting/polishing] tricks on his engines. He
gets as much out of these mills as anyone I've seen but not without
having his problems too. I've watched Gene struggle for an entire
meet trying to get his engine to run properly...fact is, he told
me that, just last weekend, he dinged his P-51 at the North vs South
(California) shoot-out up in Northern CA somewhere when a sick engine
caused an emergency landing in the rough. Damage isn't serious
and Gene says he was needing to do some overhaul on the bird anyway.
Oh, Gene told me that Diego busted up his gorgeous Hellcat pretty
bad at the same meet when he staggered into the air and crashed
after a collision on the ground. A whole new fuselage will be needed
to repair the bird, according to Gene.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.68 | boing | RICKS::KLADD | | Fri Oct 21 1988 16:00 | 25 |
| before flying last weekend i made 3 modifications to the p47.
bigger fuel tank (32 oz)
more elevator throw
less nose weight
the fuel tank is rubbermaid brand. thats right, rubbermaid. its
a rectangular quart container with a screw top lid with a hole/stopper
arrangement. i rtv'ed the lid on for safety and a stopper from
a sullivan tank fit perfectly in the lid hole. works great and
i got two 9 minutes+ flights in with it with fuel to spare.
the extra elevator throw greatly helped rolls. while inverted i
now have enough speed/down-elevator to maintain altitude and even
climb, a definate confidence booster.
the nose weight i'm not so sure about. the jug bounced on both
landings made last sunday. it/i never did that before. the extra
elevator throw could be aggravating it but i think the loss of nose
weight is the major difference causing me to bounce back into the
air a bit on landings. i'm going to keep the nose weight as is
for now and try to do better. if i still have problems, the weight
goes back in! cg went from 15% to almost 20% of chord.
kevin
|
| 438.69 | ANOTHER ATTA'-BOY.......!! | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Oct 21 1988 16:20 | 21 |
| Kevin,
Way to go, amigo. How many total flights does that make? Is the
landing gear repair holding up OK now??
Balance at 20% sounds fine, depending on _where_ yer' measuring
from. 20% at the root would still be ahead of 20% at the Mean
Aerodynamic Chord (MAC) which is where you should be measuring,
indicating that you may still nose-heavy. As you say, try it some
more to determine if it's just pilot-technique but be verrrry careful
moving the CG back; you _definitely_ don't want to wind up tail-
heavy!!
Did you get yer' parts from Barton? I asked Gene about it at the
Masters and I think(?) he said they were already on their way.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.70 | all 9 lives spent | RICKS::KLADD | | Fri Oct 21 1988 20:21 | 43 |
| al, so far i have 9 flights on the p47. all uneventful except for
the 5th, the one where i ran out of gas and landed 200 yards away
in the grass with the gear down! after than incident one of the
gear was dinged up and i was having trouble with the set screw not
keeping the toein from wandering. elected to fix that for the time
being with epoxy (i know, sounds bad) and its been ok since. but
just a matter of time... this winter i'll have gene send me a few
spare parts.
incidently those set screws are a bear. i have found that even
with the healthy gear and filing a flat spot, the set screw comes
loose. i've decided its not the set screw backing out, but that
i just wasnt honest with myself as to whether the flat spot was
perfectly lined up. i was filing a flat spot, then twisting the
gear the way i wanted it to end up, then torquing the set screw.
the result was the set screw wasnt necessarily well seated in the
flat spot and would jar loose from vibration or any one of my
imperfect landings. now i file a flat spot, install the gear, and
slowing turn in the set screw, constantly twisting the gear just
a bit. as the set screw goes in further, the amount the gear can
twist decreases till there is no twist. at this point if the toein
of the gear is off, the flat spot must be fixed by refiling.
yes i'm measuring cg from the root. the plane rolls noticeably
better and i will probably soon realize that it really lands better
too (flares better).
dan miner was supposed to stop by my office and pick up the video
i showed at the last 2 decrcm meetings. the first part shown 2
meetings ago has the first several flights. too bad dan wont bring
them with him to phenix, but i'll get it in the mail to you once
the flying season is over (once i've stopped appenind new stuff
to it) and i know you'll enjoy much of it.
havent gotten the goods from gene yet. now that the bully carb
is ok i'm more interested in the shaft extension. i've decided
i need it to set the engine back so theres room for the dummy engine.
especially the tatone manifold sticks too far forward. course setting
the engine back translates to more nose weight. and then theres
paint...
have a good weekend.
kevin
|
| 438.105 | taking pictures at the N E Air Museum | RICKS::KLADD | | Fri Nov 04 1988 20:01 | 10 |
| hi tom.
welcome to jugs. obviously i think the p47 is a good choice.
i've made a trip to the new england air museum specifically
to photograph their p47 (elle mae i think). itsa bubble
canopy while mine is a razorback. still its close enough.
i paid the $5 or whatever, a bargain cause nobody seemed to
mind that i was crawling under the plane, though some patrons
thot i was a bit disturbed.
see ya in the spring.
kevin
|
| 438.106 | taking pictures with permission | SPKALI::THOMAS | | Mon Nov 07 1988 10:29 | 16 |
|
I called the Air Museum and you cna get close and measure if your
willing to pay a 10.00 a one half hour fee for someone from the
museum to stand there and supervise your activity. I didn't make
it to the Museum yesterday. Maybe this week or this coming sunday.
My Holman is the bubble style ship. What did the markings look like
of the bird at the Museum? Would they be difficult to reproduce?
I did look at the plans for retract installation. Looks like i'll
have to move the main spar or do something different.
Kevin, How did they cut a foam wing for this bird? What did it
look like in your kit?
Tom
|
| 438.104 | p47 wing is neat | RICKS::KLADD | | Mon Nov 07 1988 16:09 | 27 |
| yup, the baker wings come pre-sheeted. however, i'm quite certain
the core is a single piece of foam as opposed to multiple cores
glued together and then sheeted. the real p47 wing is has a
straight leading edge (tapered back) until close to the wingtip.
the trailing edge is rounded the entire lenght much like a spitfire.
however, the trailing edge of the wing not including flap and
aileron is straight, tho at different angles. the trick to cutting
a foam wing i think is to:
1. include the flap and aileron in the initial core and cut them
out after.
2. pretend the trailing edge of the wing (including flap/aileron)
is straight.
so basically you cut a foam core with straight trailing edge and
then cut out the aileron and flap per scale drawings. (again, the
cut for the 2 surfaces is not along the same line, in fact,
they are not even parallel
with each other as you'll see in the 3-view drawings). throw these
away and build new control surfaces with curved trailing edge
outline. on the baker wing, the tip blocks are quite long and are
sanded to fit flush with the outside edge of the ailerons.
course i aint done this myself so i could be full of poop.
kevin
|
| 438.72 | desperately seeking "camouflage and markings" | RICKS::KLADD | | Fri Jan 06 1989 15:54 | 11 |
|
hello,
i have been searching for the book "Camouflage and Markings". actually
it is a series of books (each with a different author). i know
the publisher is harley ford but thats it. i've called many specialty
book stores and a few libraries (not boston library yet) with no luck.
its been out of print for about 3 years.
any help appreciated!
kevin
|
| 438.73 | GIVE ZENITH A JINGLE..... | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Jan 06 1989 16:04 | 10 |
| Kevin,
Have you tried some of the Aviation Book houses like Zenith Aviation
Books? Try them at 1-800-826-6600 and let us know how you fare.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.74 | glimmer of hope | RICKS::KLADD | | Fri Jan 06 1989 17:10 | 13 |
| thanks, i just gave zenith a jingle. they didnt have it but gave
me 2 other numbers to try
military bookman (212) 348-1280
book look (914) 986-1981
i had tried military bookman yesterday.
boston public library has the book. all i gotta do is drive to
boston. oh boy, i'd rather die. anybody want to do research at
boston public library for me, all expenses paid!!!
kevin
|
| 438.75 | | SA1794::TENEROWICZT | | Fri Jan 06 1989 17:29 | 10 |
| Kevin, Call the Boston public library and ask if they have an expended
book usage program. Most big metro libraries do this. They work
with smaller more local libraries and often they will send a book
to a specific library on request. I you have a valid card at your
local library they may be able to get the book shipped from boston
for your use. they even call you to inform you that the book has
arived.
Tom
|
| 438.76 | | SA1794::TENEROWICZT | | Fri Jan 06 1989 17:31 | 6 |
| Kevin, You do know that you can put your hands on a restored Jug.
In Windsor Lock Co. app. 2 ,iles from the where you and Kay went
to the auction a couple of years back.
Tom
|
| 438.78 | Try the Smithsonian | CLOSUS::TAVARES | John -- Stay low, keep moving | Mon Jan 09 1989 13:14 | 10 |
| I had good luck getting some information on a Polish aircraft
from the Smithsonian. The expert on the aircraft recommended a
couple of books in Polish to me, I wrote the Smithsonian and got
copies of the information I wanted from the books. If they can
do that for a very obscure aircraft, a T-bolt should be no
problem!
I have the address that I wrote to at home, if you need it let me
know. They really fell over themselves helping me. And it was
free.
|
| 438.80 | still sanding | RICKS::KLADD | | Wed Jan 18 1989 21:14 | 25 |
| well, its been a long long time since i've made a progress report.
today the p47 is in its final coat of primer. the original coat
and the second were pretty much all sanded off preceded by some
putty. according to kay, the plane looks no better from 10 feet
than it did 10 weeks/many-man-hours ago!
i had a scare with the wing. while wet-sanding i noticed the
ply hanging over the trailing edges was curling from the water.
horrified, i stopped and dried everything off. luckily everything
straightened out after a day of drying, but that was almost
diseaster. next time i will make a fillet for all trailing edge-
overhang (only did it for flaps which stick out a good inch), and
will try to seal underneath before installing control surfaces.
next i'm gonna make some panel lines with masking tape and brushed
on primer. never done this before, should be interesting. hope
to get first coat of silver on this weekend. then i will really
be venturing into unexplored territory as i make rivets and mask
panel lines with 1/64" tape.
there's a slight chance i will take the jug with me to phoenix
in march. gotta figure out the shipping...
kevin
|
| 438.82 | IT'S NOT TOO RARE..... | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Thu Jan 19 1989 13:20 | 11 |
| Dan,
1/64" panel line tape can be ordered from Larry Wolfe's Jet Hangar
Hobbies or, I understand, it's a fairly common item in drafting
supply stores.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.85 | Jet Hangar Hobbies | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Thu Feb 09 1989 14:05 | 10 |
| Kevin,
Try (213) 429-1244. Larry's shop moved a year or so ago and the
number probably changed as well.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.87 | almost ready again | RICKS::KLADD | | Mon Mar 06 1989 15:27 | 30 |
| well, its been a long time since i've provided an update. the p47
is almost ready to fly (again). currently its in olive drab and
grey, with the white eto ring on leading edge of cowl. all other
markings are still "unimplemented". with the paint, rivets, and
panel lines, it looks pretty good, not perfect, but good enough.
the radio is installed with the exception of the retracts. i've
got some experimenting to do to get the doors to sequence properly
(i had no doors when i flew it last fall).
i spent much of the weekend wrestling with the engine installation.
the engine is now installed upright, which changes everything.
i had to take a hacksaw to the tatone manifold to get it to fit
under the cowl. not pretty but functional. now i'm debating with
how to prime the engine and how to hook up a nistarter. the big
decision is whether to drill a hole near the top of the cowl for
the glow plug. this would allow me to change plugs without removing
cowl, and would allow priming by removing the plug. problem is
i can't stand the thot of drilling another hole in the cowl, esp
on top. also priming would still be inconvenient. however, without
a hole i'd have to build my own clip to attach to plug, since the
remote headlock i have won't fit under the cowl. ah, decisions,
decisions...
in the next few days i should have the retracts stuff installed.
then i can balance the plane. am dying to know how much nose
weight is needed and final weight. flying weight last fall was
around 23 lbs. probably will now be about 26.
kevin
|
| 438.88 | Glow plug wires? | K::FISHER | Only 8 Days till Phoenix! | Mon Mar 06 1989 19:09 | 10 |
| > a hole i'd have to build my own clip to attach to plug, since the
> remote headlock i have won't fit under the cowl. ah, decisions,
Kevin - somewhere in this huge file there were some clever ideas on how
to attach a wire to a glow plug - any body remember what they were?
Bye --+--
Kay R. Fisher |
---------------O---------------
================================================================================
|
| 438.89 | hole-in-the-cowl | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Wed Mar 08 1989 13:46 | 15 |
| Kevin,
Just a short blurb to let'cha know your fuel from Circus arrived
in good shape via UPS Monday. On the hole-in-the-cowl question,
I finally convinced Bob Frey to go with a hole, if only for ready
replacement of the plug without having to pull prop/cowl/etc. and
he loves it...Judges don't pay any attention to it and I guarantee
it's invisible on a 100 mph low pass viewed from the back of a galloping
horse.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.92 | glowplug connector | HEFTY::TENEROWICZT | | Wed Mar 08 1989 16:33 | 17 |
| Kevin, I'm not sure what kind of amps your running for that large
glow plug but...
Take a common hair pin (bobby pin) and cut it dawn to about 3/4"
long. Sand off the paint on the unside and part of the outside surface.
Solder a wire to the outside and add a small piece of shrink tubing.
For the other end you can get a Jack plug from radio shack and install
a hex nut (soldered) that fits a glow driver.
To install the hairpin to the glowplug cut a small piece of mylar
to fit over the plug. Pop a small hole in it to allow it to slip
over the glowplugs lead and then install the hairpin clip. Attach
the other conductor from the Jack plug to the engine and your all
set. The good think about this set up is weight. Yoou have very
little weight suspended from that glow plug.
Tom
|
| 438.94 | my first scale contest | ROCK::KLADD | | Thu Jul 20 1989 22:02 | 272 |
| it was a very fun and eventful weekend for me at the scale meet at westover.
this was the first scale meet of any kind i'd ever been in, and the first time
my p47 thunderbolt "little demon" had ever been seen in public (except in
various stages of incompleteness at a few local club meetings). it was the big
debut for both of us. i was a wreck.
i arrived shortly after kay and we set up next to some of the local contingent,
lindsey smith had a 90 inch scratch-built hurricane, art alfano had a byrons
pitts with a g38, tom loose had some civilian thing with a smoke system. we
lined up for static. at that time i checked out the competition and figured
tom kosewski (1988 top static score at masters finals) and jack buckley (cap10)
were untouchable, but there were 3 other qualifier slots up for grabs. charlie
nelson and steve sherwood were judges and didnt compete (already qualified?).
this was a major opportunity for me to steal an invitation. scott
foster had a bert baker p47 (bubble canopy) which was ok. it had paint runs,
the guns were coming out of the wings in all directions, munched wing tip
covers, and just wasnt spectacular. there was a b25 (its picture was in
flying models last month from wram coverage) that, if it flew at all, would
be trouble. irv searle had his bucker and there were many other nice planes
that all had a shot. i knew scott qualified with the same p47 last year, so
i decided if i could get a big enough lead on him in static, i might get lucky
on a flight and hang on to beat him which should be good enough for a masters
invite.
static was more hectic than i ever imagined. when it was my turn i was to
put my plane on this dinky little table. it wouldnt fit so i was constantly
holding it, turning it, taking props off, rotating, etc. after i had been
judged for craftsmanship, the judge came over to give me some pointers. he
said i lost a few points for little things that lots of first time competitors
do like leave the ailerons off center. he said that as i tilted the plane he
could see the ailerons werent at the same angle and, "to be fair", had to
deduct points for a warped wing. i complained that it was hard enough just
trying to keep the plane perched on the table, and that my helper and i had
probably knocked the control surfaces off while trying to move the model
around. his was response was "these tables are the official size, you should
build the model to fit the table". uh huh.
the rest of static was uneventful except we waited a long time between judges.
kay had 2 identical berliner joyces, one entered in sportsman and the other in
expert. all was ok until the 2nd one reached nelson, and after some debate
and flipping thru the rulebook, was declared illegal. the rules say once a
pilot enters a plane in expert, he is inelligible to enter in sportsman ever
again. but what about in the same meet? i think they did kay a favor cause
if they had let him in expert, he'd be poop out of luck next year and could
only fly 1, in expert.
after waiting around all morning in the hot sun, it was suddenly time to fly.
when the flightline was announced, i was up 2nd out of about 13 or so planes.
yikes, i had to fuel, air, fill out my schedule as fast as possible.
everything seemed ok and the #1 plane was in the air before i knew it. charlie
nelson kept coming over to me and asking if everything was all right. i didnt
understand why but later figured out i was supposed to line up behind the
judges and start my plane there. i'd really wished i had known where and when
i was supposed to start my engine. finally charlie told me where to roll it
and that i had to wait till the other flier was down before attempting to
start. he was down before i knew it.
kay and i try to start the plane. first flip, just a pop. second flip, it
starts! backwards. kay disconnects the battery and, after letting it warm up
just a bit, i start pulsing the throttle. after about 5 cycles it reverses
direction and starts running forwards. smoke is pouring out of the exhaust.
i put a tack on it and turn in the needle. yep it was a bit rich so i lean it
to 7200 rpm and back out to 7050 where i've been flying it. with the words of
good advice from al in my mind, i continue my normal preflight routine and
hold the big jug nose up for 10 seconds while kay holds it at full throttle.
it runs great, no excuse not to fly, im so scared. i look up and about a dozen
video cameras are pointed straight at me. i want to puke.
2 nights before i had fixed a problem with the left main wheel bearing. it had
been binding under load and little demon had been having trouble turning right.
now it taxied great. i was relieved to find out the fix worked and i could
taxi reliably. i rolled 50 feet to my right and turned around and stopped.
"my first manuever will be a takeoff" i said, trying to mask terror with humor.
i started feeding the throttle and right rudder. she rolled forward and
wandered just a tad to the right. this was new. that fixed main gear made me
change my takeoff technique with the rudder entirely. i wrestled with the
rudder and was real cool with the throttle and did ok. later found out i got
an 8 and a 9 for the rog. i was in the air. if kay hadnt reminded me, i dont
know when i'd have gotten around to hitting the retract switch. anyways, the
gear went up ok and we were off.
i circled around, trying once again to breathe normally. after a lap i
announced my first maneuver. "my next maneuver will be a tank drop".
immediately i heard the judges start to mumble. i ignored them. "dropping
tank... now". it didnt come off. i'd never had a chance to test this and
deserved it not working. i dared not try to reengage the tank in case the
tank has slid part out causing the servo to jamb. so i flew around knowing
the tank would probably fall off sometime during the flight. "my next maneuver
will by a fly by". by now the judges arent just mumbling, the are yelling for
the contest director and talking to each other. i do the fly by but they
hardly look up. i get thru a figure-8. by now the cd is there and from the
corner of my eye i can see they aint watching me, no, they're reading the
rule book. following the sound advice of al, i ignored everything and
continued as if nothing was wrong. "starting maneuver now" i said as i pitched
little demon into a military roll. it was hysterical. 2 judges and a cd
briefly look up, the judges write something down, and then they continue with
the rule book.
i made a good, not great, landing. it was gentle on the gear and those are
the best kind. i was happy. i knew the flight was shot as soon as the tank
didnt fall off (it did fall off later but luckily almost in front of the
judges, someone retrieved it for me). i didnt even pretend to be disappointed
as someone explained that 6 of 10 maneuvers got 0's due to being out of order.
too bad tho, it turned out to be one of my best flights of the meet. one judge
had scored all maneuvers and i would have gotten an 77 from him if theyd all
counted, that was in spite of a 0 for the tank that didnt drop. instead i got
a 34. i was learning the hard way.
kay flew next and he's already described the flight in graphic detail.
lindsay's big hurricane flamedout on an overshoot, and overshot the tar and
went into the grass with gear down. damage ended his contest. too bad. i've
avoided maneuvers requiring low idling for that very reason.
soon the static scores were tabulated. i wandered over to the board and saw i
got an 86. well i thought, a little lower than i expected but not too shabby.
maybe they thought the colors were off, or the outline, or some mistake in doc.
then i looked and kay had an 82.5. wow, he almost static'ed as high as me, in
fact, he was in 2nd place in sportsman static-wise. then i looked at the score
for scott's p47. what, he got a 92.5? what did i do wrong. i had assumed i
would out static him. i was bummed out big time. my static, combined with my
first flight score of a whopping 34 put me out of contention. i would need a
miracle.
the miracle came on my second flight. everything went right. the engine
started first flip. forwards even. takeoff was long, straight, and realistic.
i didnt drop the tank and substitued an immelman in its place. it was the
first immelman i'd done all year with that plane, it was excellent. with every
maneuver kay said "jesus, that was good". i was unconscious. then came the
landing. the glide path was smooth, but was coming up a bit short. i ever so
gingerly fed it a bit more throttle. there was no wind to speak of and little
demon started flaring, rock solid and smooth. the wheels touched down exactly
in front of the judges and 25 feet away. perfect. the crowd went wild, kay
gave me some skin, and i knew right there that i'd just flown completely over
my head (sorry). i got a well earned 88.
i went home (actually stayed at mother-in-laws apt nearby) happy. i was still
a long shot for a qualifier invite but honor was intact. the established
competitors now had something new to think about. i had a slightly gimpy
retract to fix, but, other than tapping it with a hammer a couple of times,
i had only to put little demon on charge and i was ready to do battle again
the next day. i didnt get much sleep that night as i flew that gorgeous flight
over and over again in my mind.
day 2. kay and i got there a bit late (actually the military didnt let me thru
the gate for 15 minutes or so). this was too bad cause we had to set up way
down at the end. i can live with that except we were past the fence which
kept spectators back. this day i was next to last on the flight line, so i had
plenty of time to get ready. i had little demon assembled and spent a relaxing
morning talking and watching the competition. i noticed that kay and i were
flying back to back on the same flight line so we got my position changed. i
would fly last.
kay flew and his engine actually kept running the whole flight. even one of
the flight judges kidded him about his engine making it to the end. just
before kays flight i noticed that my gear was sagging again. what! i just
fixed that thing. i removed the gear from the wing in record time and found
the problem, its hard to explain but basically there are 2 aluminum stops which
keep the gear from opening too far. because of a misalignment, one stop barely
catches the rotator block. the other i had tapped straight, but unbenownst to
me at the time, it fractured when i did so. luckily i had a part so it took
me 15 minutes to get everything back together. i did get a break, art alfano
protested a flight and flew ahead of me. phew. in my haste, i connected the
air lines backwards the first time. the spectators bugged me a bit, for as
kay and i are frantically (and i mean frantically) trying to get it back
together, people are literally looking over our shoulders and asking questions
like "is it a kit, or scratch built". i probably appeared very rude but was a
bit annoyed. sue got some of that scene on video tape. now that its over, its
kind of funny to watch.
we got to the flight line a little late and immediately commenced to start the
engine. i put the glow plug on and noticed that it was drawing a bit more
current. i flipped and flipped, primed, flipped some more, primed, flipped.
nothing. the judgeds announced that i had 10 minutes left. i was getting
unnerved. i took the plug out (thankfully i followed al's advice and had made
a hole in the cowl for the plug) and didnt bother to inspect it. i spun the
prop a few times and put a new plug in. it popped first flip and started 2nd
flip. backwards. a few pulses of the throttle and it was running forwards.
i put the tack to it. 7500 rpm. it has never run at that rpm with the os7d
carb. is my tach broken? is it too lean. i fumble with a screwdriver and
richen. it starts a smoking like crazy and rpms drop. i go lean to 7500 or
so and back rich to 7400. hold nose up and it runs great to my tremendous
relief. judges say 6 minutes left. i taxi out and the wind is really blowing
and its a struggle to just turn down wind without really goosing the throttle.
the extra power i was getting showed immediately. combined with the headwind,
she was off the ground in 50 feet, not quite what i was hoping for. the figure
8 was tough as i was not compensating enought on the downwind legs. at the
military roll (my best maneuver usually) i completely botched it and damn near
lost the plane. i believe the added power increased the roll rate, and when i
tried to slow the rate (forgetting al's advice to "just fly the way you do on
a lazy sunday afternoon), i pulsed in up instead of down as i went inverted.
result was a very embarrassing hitch in the roll and for a split second,
everyone including myself thought i was going in.
on the backstretch i did another roll to regain some of the lost confidence.
i probably should have told the judges first cause from the corner of my eye i
saw one turn and look at me as if he was mad. that roll was fine but of
course the damage to my score was done.
the rest of the flight went well, yes, even the victory roll at the end.
i fell of at the top of my immelman. perhaps i was overconfident about the
newly found power in my engine, but i think it really was cause i started
the maneuver in a headwind, and ended with a tailwind.
the landing was going great, i was a foot off the ground and reasonably in
front of the judges when a gust ballooned me 3 feet up. i settled nicely
after that and the judge said "dont worry, we know that was the wind." i got
a generous 82 on that flight. even jack buckley told me great landing. he
knows i exist! at least the 34 i got on the first flight was erased.
scott foster flew the 3rd round on his p47 and had a landing gear problem.
one gear wouldnt come down. later he said the inner door didnt open and thats
what jambed the gear. anyways, he belly landed in the grass and broke up his
wing pretty bad. he might have better off on the tar than in the long grass,
which caught the wing, but hindsight is 20-20.
irv searle got better scores with his bucker the second day, despite way worse
wind conditions.
my last flight was the very last flight of the meet. i didnt know it at the
time, but i needed a score of ~87 to take the 5th qualifier invite, and everyone
around the impound area knew and were watching. i was told they were rooting
for me. well, tom loose who was currently in 5th was probably not. 8^)
the engine started no problem. i had even more trouble taxiing into position.
a lot of planes had dropped out of the last round due to wind. i considered
it, but, i guess i knew i was close and i wanted to show courage and, most
importantly, i didnt feel the wind was jeapardizing the plane since it was
pretty much straight down the runway.
just before i took off, a gust of wind knocked down about 4 tarps including the
the one at the impound. the chairs the other flightline judges had been were
being blown down the runway too. all systems go, so up i went.
the rest of the flight was uneventful. i tried but still didnt compensate for
the wind enought in my figure 8. i adjusted on the immelman, and it was a bit
better. i hammed it up just a little on the victory roll and came barreling
up the runway less than 10 feet off the deck. i shoulda done that
downwind, then it would really have been honking. landing was typical.
when it was all said and done, i got only an 84 on the last flight (92 from
one judge, 76 from the other, hmm). so my flight score averaged to 86, same
as my static. not good enough for a qualifier invite. i console myself in
knowing my flight scores were better than 2 fliers who did qualify. i'm mad
cause the craftsmanship part of my static score was so bad, same as kay, much
worse than scott's p47. craftsmanship, i just dont understand how i could do
much better. hell, even the static prop was hand-carved and hand-painted and
looked great.
as it turned out, the static scores determined the qualifier winners in the
exact order. i dont know why any of us bothered to fly. i finished 6th in
static, 4th in flying, and 6th overall. i got a lot of sympathy. the
qualifiers, in order, were tom kosewski (fokker), jack buckley (cap10), scott
foster (p47), irv searle (bucker), and tom loose (civilian thingy).
in summary i had a blast. it was not readily apparent to me when i was
preparing to fly that was having fun, but i was having fun. best moments
were always when the wheels softly touched the ground.
i learned a lot. i made a lot of mistakes, both while presenting the model
during static, and during flying. those mistakes really cost and i've said
"if i'd only..." so many times the last few nights while i tried in vain to
sleep.
i met most of my goals. my plane and my ego survived. i made many many new
friends. learned. had a blast. earned a piece of that halo. and it only
cost me 2 years of building. such a deal.
i'll be back.
kevin
|
| 438.97 | 1000-ATTA'BOYS..... | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Jul 21 1989 15:51 | 21 |
| Kevin,
Again, I congratulate both you and Kay for braving the baptismal
fires and becoming introduced to competition. The only thing that
kept you out of the top-5 was the lack of a commodity that cannot
be taught; I call it "contest moxie." (Of course, a little
old-fashioned luck never hurts either.) This can only be gained by
making mistakes in actual competition and learning from them...no
one ever stops learning, by the way. With a better knowledge of
the "do's-and-don'ts" gained from yer' first outing, you should
be well positioned to do even better in subsequent contests.
BTW, off-line, Kay gives me the credit (blame?) for getting you
both interested in scale competition...if true, I gladly take the
heat. :B^)
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.98 | this buds for you | ROCK::KLADD | | Fri Jul 21 1989 17:15 | 7 |
| thanks al and bill. it was exciting, and yes, i'm proud. whenever
someone asks where i learned to do that, i tell em, my friend and
mentor, the great desert fart, taught me almost everything i know
about scale! 8^) thanks for being so generous, al. and someday
student will meet master in competition!
kevin
|
| 438.99 | and a scale ground crew too!! | WRASSE::FRIEDRICHS | Never trust a premi! | Fri Jul 21 1989 17:56 | 15 |
| Kevin,
If they truely have "regulation tables", it sounds like it might be a
good idea to build a display stand that could be placed on the table
and the plane placed on it...
It could be simple, just a "T" made from wood so that the top of the
"T" is under each wheel and the tail wheel is on the post. You could
build some scale chalks with string between them and attach them to the
"T" where the main wheels are placed to insure the model won't move.
Placed across the table, it should be more than secure...
cheers,
jeff
|
| 438.100 | BULLHOCKEY....!! | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Fri Jul 21 1989 18:36 | 22 |
| Kevin, Jeff,
I think the judge who expounded some drivvle about a regulation
size table was blowing smoke. To the best of my knowledge, there
is no such thing as a regulation size table...in fact, a table isn't
even required and is not used in most of the contests I attend.
The model is simply placed, on the ground, in the center of a 30'
circle, thereby establishing a 15' judging perimeter, 360-degrees
around the model. The judge(s) walk around the model with
documentation and score sheet in hand and the modeler never has to
touch the plane except to display a top or bottom view for the judge.
Kev,
That'd be great, meeting in competition one day but you gotta' promise
to takle it easy on me...OK? :B^)
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.101 | | SA1794::TENEROWICZT | | Fri Jul 21 1989 18:39 | 10 |
| Sounds identical to what the Mag's say was used at the "Top Gun"
contest. Al had written (I think) that chocks and ground displays
had been eliminated by the rules but I can't see why anyone would
think to object to the "T" idea. One addition is that a flip board
could be added to support the fuse when the wing is removed. That
way the "T" could be multifunctional. Not just for displaying the
plane but also to transportation.
Tom
|
| 438.102 | SEE YA' IN FT. WORTH...?? | PNO::CASEYA | THE DESERT RAT (I-RC-AV8) | Thu Dec 21 1989 14:25 | 28 |
| Kevin,
Speaking of yer' Jug (in the DECRCM topic), have you got it all ready
for the forthcoming season and, if (actually "when") you qualify, do
you think you might compete in the Masters next September in Ft. Worth,
Texas?? Still a pretty fer' piece for you to travel but about the
same, or is it a little closer, than St. Louis. I haven't made up my
mind whether I'd compete but am kinda' leaning in that direction...course,
I gotta' get qualified _first_! :B^) In any event, I'll probably be
there in one capacity or another as Harris Lee's already mentioned he'd
like me to do the mag-article again if I want to...he indicated he'd
offer, minimum, the same deal as last year, maybe better (like air-fare
included) so I have a way to go should I fail to qualify or decide not
to compete.
Ft. Worth is about the same distance from me as Denver, give or take a
couple-hundred miles so it's not out of the question to drive it if I
decide to compete without an enormous expenditutre of vacation time and
$$$ and still have the ability to make it a nice leisurely 2-day drive.
As I say, it's not out of the question. What're yer' thoughts? It's
not too soon to start giving it some thought.
|
| | 00 Adios, Al
|_|_| ( >o
| Z__(O_\_ (The Desert Rat)
|
| 438.103 | i plan to try | ROCK::KLADD | | Thu Dec 21 1989 16:14 | 48 |
| al,
i have even fewer illusions about being able to qualify this year than i
did last year. its tough. i will have to improve.
the p47 aint ready yet, in fact, reading about you getting ready has
gotten me thinking about my own "maintainence". i managed to flip little
demon on her back during a poor landing late last fall and haven't
quite gotten around to fixing the fin.
the fin will be easy to fix. i also need to fix some outline problems
which "came with the kit". i remember you once commented that chuck's
p47 had the turbocharger outlet in the wrong place on the bottom of the
fuse. mine too. i could try to find a different 3-view (theory is
bert used a diff one to build kit) but that will probably cause other
problems, so i probaby will saw off old scoops and build up new ones.
that and some documentation problems should buy me at least 2 more
outline points (tho i think there is a concept of static score
compression - the judges keep looking till they find enough
downgrades).
my biggest problem in both westover and philly was static, and in both
cases about half my points were lost in craftsmenship which only represents
30% of static score. not much i can do about craftsmanship now but
lie in my BOM declaration 8^). so i think little demon is doomed to
not be too competitive, at least around here where glass fuses and
foam wings are somewhat frowned upon, at least when purchased.
i figure it will take me a month of leisurely maintainence to get
little demon ready for battle, it will be a little bettern than ever.
if i did qualify, i might go to texas. if you were going, especially
if you were competing, it would probably be a sure bet that i'd make
the trip somehow, most likely driving. a long long drive.
i still need to figure a way to transport p47's on airliners. if i
could you'd probably see little demon in phoenix in march. but i'm
most likely doomed. as you know i have a second baker p47 kit and
have committed to building the wings in 3 pieces (already cut the
sheeted foam core) and the tail removeable. that plane won't be ready
till the '91 flying season at the earliest.
besides baby, i've been distracted by an me110 but thats another note
to be written.
clear as mud?
kevin
|
| 438.104 | bug fix | BRAT::RYDER | perpetually the bewildered beginner | Sat Sep 01 1990 12:02 | 1 |
| 438.107 | | SA1794::TENEROWICZT | | Tue Oct 30 1990 10:38 | 55 |
|
In a number of other notes I wrote about a P47 I saw at the
New England Scale Masters Qaulifier. It was a Baker Jug modeling
the "Big Chief". Flown by a Scott Foster of VT I had talked quite
a bit with scott and got his address. He had indicated that he
would help me with the paint documentation so in late July I wrote
him a letter. It's been some time since that letter and I got a
replay the other day. Owning to the fact of getting ready for the
Masters I can understand the delays. Below is the content of the
letter. Maybe it will be of interest to other noters...
Tom,
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. Enclosed
is a paint chip from Fighter Rebuilders in Chino Ca. for the green.
If you go to a paint shop that uses Dupont paints (or a distributor)
you can get a book with their color charts. The gray is 72092 and
the red is 6543. If you want to use another paint other than Imron,
just match these colors.
The Imron green is 2547UH mixed as follows; 3/4 Q*
548U .5
561U 7.0
555U 62.5
535U 247.0
562U 625.0
563U 675.0
571U 750.0
The company that made the numbers and the stars and
bars was Aerolof Designs
P.O.Box 326
Hinsdale,Ill 60522-0322
(708)974-4760
Just call them and tell them you ar doing my plane but
it is a little smaller and they should be able to size them for
you. One word of caution; they are not perfect and they are very
expensive. You may want to paint some of the markings. Only a
few people would find what is not perfect but they are usually the
judges!
I didn't touch my three view but it wouldn't hurt if
you want to.
If you have any questions pleases feel free to call
Scott.
Tom
|
| 438.108 | Just remember - Imron kills! | DIENTE::OSWALD | Randy Oswald | Tue Oct 30 1990 13:13 | 7 |
| Tom, and any others who might use this information,
Please remember that the only safe way to paint with Imron is to have a totally
enclosed fresh air supply type mask. Organic filters aren't sufficient and
exposure to Imron can and has killed!
Randy
|
| 438.109 | Kevin Ladd's P-47 | KAY::FISHER | Stop and smell the balsa. | Wed Jan 23 1991 11:56 | 40 |
| R/C Scale Modeler - March 1991 - Page 34 and 35.
A two page color picture (Centerfold?) of Kevin Ladd's P47.
No mention in the accompanying text so I'll fill in the details.
This picture was taken during the Scale Masters in Dallas Texas.
That is a Skyraider in the background.
Kevin's P47 is a 80" wing span Bert Baker Kit (now Yellow Aircraft) with
a Webra Bully engine, and Gene Barton retracts. He uses a JR PCM-10
radio. The finish is automotive acrylic lacquer (Ditzler). The fuselage
is fiberglass and the wings are foam cores sheeted with balsa and covered
with .6 oz fiberglass (Dan Parson's cloth). The paint was custom ordered
by Federal Stock Number form Jet Hanger Hobbies (Larry Wolf) and there
are over 7,000 rivets hand applied with RC56 glue thru a hypodermic needle.
The 4 blade show prop (the one in the picture used for static judging) was
hand carved. The flying prop is normally a 18x6x10 turning approximately
7800 rpm.
The engine has "never" failed in flight although Kevin did run it out of fuel
once. This plane has many flights on it. The closest thing to a crash was
when Kevin was hot dogging one day and raised the retracts up just a
little too soon and this caused it to break a prop and slide down the runway.
On one of the first flights it lost a main gear wheel and he belly landed
it on the grass with almost no damage.
Kevin has two more of these kits for future projects.
There are only two DEC employees who have ever made it to the Scale Masters
(that I know of). One - our veteran Al Casey with his infamous MiG 3 and
two Kevin Ladd with his first attempt at a scale plane.
If you think this P-47 is awsome - wait till you see his next project!
Congratulations to Kevin Ladd (famous scale modeler from Townsend Mass).
Bye --+--
Kay R. Fisher |
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