Conference vmsnet::nascar$note:nascar

    Maybe..... he's going have to get past the two Dale's to do it though.
    I got to agree with sir Swami, with passing at a premium, Earnhardt is
    a monster to get around. He'll be tough.  Gaffer keep the truck running
    son, road trip coming up on Sunday, also going to finally to get to rib
    the Defending contest chump (Cullen) in person.
    
    CJ

    re -1
    
    In your dreams bonehead
    

    
    re last.
    
    
    Ahhh you referring to me ?  If you are how about a friendly wager ?
    
    
    CJ

    re -2
    
    It didn't look too hard for everyone else to pass Skid Lid while he was
    spinning like a top.... again! If it wasn't for instant replays, you'd
    think Gordon blew past him so fast, that's what put him on his coconut.

>>                      <<< Note 281.4 by POLAR::NESBITTW >>>
>>                          -< WHO'S THE BONEHEAD NOW! >-

>>    re -2
    
>>    It didn't look too hard for everyone else to pass Skid Lid while he was
>>    spinning like a top.... again! If it wasn't for instant replays, you'd
>>    think Gordon blew past him so fast, that's what put him on his coconut.


	Yeah, it did look that way until the replays show that Boy Blunder
 crowded Dale Earnhardt into the wall, and Dale did everything he could not
 to hit anyone, only to get rammed in the back by Dale Jarrett. Then all
 three Hendrick boys gang up on WildBill.....

	Impressed??? Nah, that's the only way they could have gotten by Dale
 Earnhardt (smashing him)......

	Hey Swami, I want my money back.... What happened to that HEX on
 Boy Blunder, that I had asked for???? No points for you this week ;-) ;-)...


	Norm  (a Dale E. fan... Can't you tell?? ;-) ;-)

    If you listen to Earnhardt's own comments, he developed a push from
    Gordon's car being right beside him. He'd have done the same thing as
    Gordon did if the positions were swapped. I don't buy it that Gordon
    crowded him, Earnhardt just couldn't handle the heat. He might want to
    invest in a full face helmet for future superspeedway races though.
    
    

During all the practice sessions DE had this problem of pushing when 
someone was underneath him.  That was the biggest factor for him pushing to 
the front and trying so hard to stay there.  All DE needed to do when JG 
got under him was to tap on the brakes a bit to hold his car in line.  Of 
course we all know that would have resulted in him being freight trained 
back to 12-15 or so.  DE has never been known to play it safe.  He took his 
chances and this time it bit him. Jus' Racin' !!!

Jilly

    First let me say that I am "not" a boy wonder fan. But I dont feel that
    he caused it. I was watching the race via a live satellite feed. Its
    really interesting what the guys talk about when every one else on on
    comercial. 
    
    They were saying that  the 24 had the 3 beat and under normal race
    conditions dale would pull in behind and try pas latter. But since
    there were only aprox 10 laps left dale refused to let up and it cost
    him. 
    This is not my opinion but the opinion of the TV crew!
    
    Dennis

rep last 2

       I didn't say that Gordon pushed Dale E. into the wall, Gordon crowded/
 got real close on his left leaving Dale no where to go. If he had hit/tapped
 the brakes, there would have been a bigger wreck, since he was boxed in with
 WildBill up front, Gordon on the left, the wall on the right, and Jarrett in
 the back with who knows who else.......

	All day, Dale E. was running the low line to give himself some room
 in case if the car developed a push...... I agreed it was just racing, but
 hey, I didn't like it ;-).........

	After Dale E. crashed, I was rooting for WildBill, T. Labonte, Jarrett,
 Craven, anyone except Boy Blunder........


	Norm

    Pardon me while I get my head together... got in at 2am from Daytona.
    
    Like him (Earnhardt) or not...  after Mr. Dale wrecked all over the
    place, he got out of his car and got in the ambulance.  He told
    one of the workers to see if his car would start.  The worker started
    his car.  Earnhardt got out of the ambulance told the worker to
    "get out", got back in his car and drove it home to 31st (?).
    
    I was listening to Wusty seeing how he was doing in that little
    3 car pack he was in "I blew up."
    
    Who else.  Woooaaa... Mr. Cool, terry labonte, early in the race...
    "The f**** toe is knocked in.  It's f'ed up....."  not typical of
    him.  Finished 2nd, not bad for bending his car up early.
    
    Gordon the chearleader... getting almost a lap down and making his
    lap up when "debris" was spotted on the track and the yellow flew.
    
    Kyle petty:  Major potty mouth.  
    
    Ken Schrader.  "The GD 41 hit me."
    Mr.S gets wrecked out of a lot of races and seems to have bad luck
    all over the place.  Regardless of what car number he's in.
    The #25 Bud car finished 3rd this year.  Hmmm, makes ya wonder.
    
    Robby Gordon wasn't the 1st guy out of the race this year.  In fact,
    Robby was still out there driving around with all four corners of
    his car attached when the checker flag dropped.  I didn't see if
    he wrecked on the cool down laps.  I doubt it.
    
    Oh Ya,  BillE.  Local boy.  I wonder if NASCAR will impound that
    intake manifold that got special deliveried down to daytona from
    Dawsonville Sunday morning.  I guess whatever they did to it worked.
    Ernie is awesome.
    
    That's about all the highlights I can remember.  It was a good
    race even with the plates.  
    
    MadMike

>    Who else.  Woooaaa... Mr. Cool, terry labonte, early in the race...
>    "The f**** toe is knocked in.  It's f'ed up....."  not typical of
>    him.  Finished 2nd, not bad for bending his car up early.
    
From all the reports I've read The Iceman talks a blue streak all race long 
every race.  He doesn't chill until he is out of the car.

Jilly

    
    	Remember ,
    
    	What goes around, comes around!  He who laughs last laughs best.
    
    	I am sure Dale will be behind Jeffie girl and return the favor.
    
    	Travis

    
    	and EARNARDT will reply that's RACING!

From:	US1RMC::"tfoley@enter.net" "MAIL-11 Daemon" 16-FEB-1997 18:39:45.76
To:	delni::Gaffney
CC:	
Subj:	Rat Boy's out of control

First of all, da swami wants to say that Bill Elliott has much more 
class than I ever thought possible, way more than the swami would 
have had under those conditions.  Gordon would still be picking grass 
out of his teeth if he tried that dumb%ss move on me.

He's a youngster and he's already out of control.  I must say that 
Dale Earnhardt showed a touch of class himself, in his interview.  
Although, towards the end, he did kinda hint that Jeffie helped him 
along on his merry way.
As for the race, hooray for Ricky Craven and Bill.  Maybe we gonna 
see some real new faces in victory lane this year.

Lots of action, but NASCAR needs to get a grip and try to give these 
guys something to work with for passing.  They also need to make sure 
races finish under the green flag.  Like in the Winston, after there 
are 5 laps left, only green flag laps count.

And of course there's Rusty, off to another BLAZING start. :*)
Da Swami gives the whole spectacle a "B-" with the ending a definite 
"F".
Okay, now let's get the yearly contest cranked up.

da swami

    JUST TO CLEAR THE RECORD JEFF NEVER TOUCH DE,LIKE DALE SAID 
    JEFF WAS THE MORE EAGER TOO END UP IN THE WINNERS CIRCLE,
    BESIDE DALE J. WAS THE ONE WHO MADE DE FLIP,IF DALE J. DIDN'T
    TAP HIM DE PROBALY WOULD BEEN ABLE TO CONTROL HIS CAR.
    
    

    
    The way I saw it.  Dale E bounced off the concrete, then connected with
    Jeffie, then connected with Irvan, than Dale Jarrett send him in orbit.
    Jeff and Dale did connect. I am not getting into who hit who.
    
    If Dale E said " Jeff was the more eager too[sic] end up in the winners
    circle" I'd be damn surprized. Clearin' the record ? Your's is skippin'
    
    Also if you reversed the roles would Jeffie jump out of the ambulance
    and back into the race car? Me don't think so.
    
    CJ
       

Ironhead said he through Gordon was "too eager", implying that Jeffie should
have been more patient.  DE never claimed that Gordon hit him.  In fact, Dale
said his car "pushed into the wall".  

As for Jarrett hitting DE when he slowed down, that just seemed like a fair
return for DE rear-ending Jarrett earlier in the race.  Difference was that
Jarrett wasn't out of shape when he was hit so he didn't crash, whereas
Earnhardt was, so he did.  Camera shot of the first hit was pretty good, looking
out the back window at the black 3 coming up and then the jump when he hit.

-mickey-

>>  Ironhead said he through Gordon...

That should be thought...obviously.

    It certainly looked to me like Jarrett had it slowed down enough not to
    hit Earnhardt, but that Irvan rammed Jarrett pretty hard when Jarrett
    checked up, thus sending him into Earnhardt and the rest is history...
    
    -Steve
    

    I wish I had a dollar for everytime ol'Ironhead "CROWDED" someone else.
    Looks like this time he didn't have the best car for what he was trying
    to do.  
                Thats Race'n.....
    
    I admire his determination though..  I was surprised he didn't check to
    see if the car would turn over BEFORE he got out of the car..  
    ( must be slipping in his old age) 
    
    /Don
    
    

    This one was different than most.... Ironhead actually hit the wall.
    
    Some one told me that the reason that Ironhead never hits the wall is
    because there no numbers on it.
    
    arr arr arr
    

    Just to add more fuel to this, from the Fitchburg Sentinel.... Bill
 Elliott who was leading at the time of the wreck "It look like Jeff took
 Dale out over there from what I saw in my rear view mirror" said WildBill.
 I kind of hated to see that, I wanted to race old Dale again......

	re -1. Dale E. only crowded other from the back, when he stuck his
 front end under the guy's bumper ;-), scared the heck of the other drivers ;-)

	Norm

From:	US1RMC::"tfoley@enter.net" "MAIL-11 Daemon" 18-FEB-1997 20:51:22.38
To:	delni::Gaffney
CC:	
Subj:	History lessons

Go back with us now......it's Charlotte, Memorial Day weekend, Kyle 
Petty dives onto the apron of the first turn, trying to get by the 
leaders and causes a huge mess.  Nascar penalizes him for 
stupid/rough driving.  Now flash ahead to last Sunday...Gordon dives 
COMPLETELY below the white line, on the apron, to pass Elliott.  I 
ask you, what's the difference?  

Is it because Elliott chose not to endanger his (and everyone else's) 
life and got out of the gas?  STUPID is as STUPID does and a bonehead 
move is a bonehead move whether it works or not.  Gordon has read too 
much of his own press, he's getting cocky and arrogant.

When our old whipping boy Jimmy Spencer does it, it's stupid and 
unsafe.  It's a wonderfull pass when Jeffie tries it.  Sounds like 
the "Tiger Woods" syndrome to me.

I think Jeff needs to take a "header" to see how the other half 
lives.  Look out...I said it about Dale and he took not 1, but 2 of 
them.  

da swami 

    GET OVER SUNDAYS RACE, IT IS IN THE PAST JUST LOOK FORWARD TO NEXT
    SUNDAY RACE. WHEN GORDON WIN AGAIN HA HA HA...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -re 23
    
    First of all, the only reason Gordon had to go down to the grass is
    because Elliot was trying to block him, and rightfully so. If Gordon
    didn't try the pass or if Elliot didn't try to block him we probably
    would have had a boring end to the race. Granted it did end sort of
    boring under yellow but that had nothing to do with either Gordon or
    Elliot.
    
    If it had have been Earnhardt pulling off the move, you'ld probably say
    how fantastic the pass was and how great he is. Besides if anyone has a
    good run on the car in front of him and gets to the inside, it's
    his corner, his lane period, as long as he's got control of his car and
    doesn't lose it.
    
    I agree with the last note, that was Sunday's race, get over it and
    lets get ready for the Rock. Hopefully Earnhardt can keep his car
    upright on all fours so we don't have to listen to anymore excuses! 

>>                     <<< Note 281.25 by POLAR::NESBITTW >>>
>>                                -< Get Over It >-

>>    -re 23
    
>>    If it had have been Earnhardt pulling off the move, you'ld probably say
>>    how fantastic the pass was and how great he is. Besides if anyone has a
>>    good run on the car in front of him and gets to the inside, it's
>>    his corner, his lane period, as long as he's got control of his car and
>>    doesn't lose it.
    
	re -1

	If it would have been Dale Earnhardt doing the same move, all of you
 Crash Gordon fans would have crucified him (re-read some of your notes from
 last season)...... 

	Norm

    re: how the Earnhardt/Gordon incident occured
    
    I watched the race on TV and saw the myriad of replays - but it
    wasn't until I saw the video clip on the NASCAR home page that
    I truely saw what happened.  When gordon went under Earnhardt
    coming out of the turn, it took the wind off his spoiler and
    drew him into the wall.  He caught it, and DIDN'T hit gordon
    coming out (although Gordon did swerve like he was tapped - there
    was daylight between the cars all of the time).  As Earnhardt
    slowed to catch the car (yep - he did check up), Jarrett did the
    same.  It was Ernie E that rammed the back of Jarrett and caused
    the whole mess (as was eluded to before).  Was anyone at fault?
    Not really.  Yep- Gordon pulled an Earnhardt and this time Earnhardt
    got the abuse of the pass.  But ANY move the was pulled by ANYONE in
    that front pack would have created similar things.  Some folks were
    running on only 2 newer tires, and all were running to the floorboard
    all the way around the track.  Even with the new "stick to the track"
    changes they made for Daytona for 97, the aerodynamics of those cars
    at those speeds caused the problem - even moreso than in previous
    years.  At 180 mph with racing slicks - if you lose your downforce
    you're toast.  Maybe they need brake lights on those cars - maybe 
    the #28 car might have prevented the chain reaction :-)
    
    I will say that this incident - plus Gordon's pass on the infield
    past Bill - will set the tone for the rest of the year.  Earnhardt
    was diplomatic and very sportsmanlike in his behavior after the
    race - but watch out in the coming weeks - this year's cup is up
    for grabs and it's gonna be like a war!!
    
    andy (mostly read-only noter, who has an autographed pic of Dale E
          on his wall)
    
    ps - interesting quote in the WWW page - According to Gordon, as he
    was taking is lap after the victory, he saw a battered earnhardt car
    come up on him.  Gordon said to himself something like "oh, sh*t
    -what's dale gonna do..." - and when Earnhardt came up beside him he
    gave Jeff the "thumbs up".  Not sure if Gordon soiled his racing suit
    in anticipation or not - but it sure told me that the pressure is 
    really on this year.

    Maybe the fundamental problem is not just the restrictor plates, but
    the effectiveness of the whole aerodynamic package at these speeds. 
    Unlike other series, NASCAR places draconian limits on aerodynamics,
    making the reasonable assumption that aero development will cost big
    money and increase the disparity between the haves and have-nots. 
    However, we now have the situation where cars can be disrupted so easily
    by a careless or malicious tailgater that it's beginning to take away
    the fun of watching the sport.  "He took the air off my spoiler and I
    spun/crashed/flipped;" how many times have we heard that over the last
    few years?

    It may be time to rethink the entire rules package and provide the cars
    with more aero stability on the 1+ mile ovals, in a way that isn't
    easily disrupted by surrounding traffic.  I'm wondering if a spec
    undertray with a really limited diffuser might not be the way to go. 
    It would be more stable and significantly less affected by traffic than
    a trunk-mounted device and, being under the car, would do little to
    disrupt the "stock car" illusion.  You could then use the existing
    trunk lid spoiler as a trim tab.

    I can think of a couple of configurations that might provide 1000 lbs.
    of downforce at 180-200 mph without requiring a Chevy Monte Carlo to
    look like a full Group C package.  You wouldn't want to go whole-hog
    into shaped underbodies anyway, because the cornering loads would
    increase past the tires' safety margin.  Being a spec setup, the
    undertray could be provided to all of the teams by NASCAR, just like
    the Roush roof flaps. It would be nice to see these guys racing
    side-by-side in the turns once again and reduce the "knife-edge" aspect
    of superspeedway racing. All I know is, watching Dale, Dale, and Ernie
    get taken out of the Daytona 500 with 10 or so laps to go took a lot of
    the fun out of the race for me.

    George

Ain't no disputen who the short track king is now is there?
Eventhough you was a lap down now you still got learnen to
do before you put the moves on the king.  YA HEAR ME SON?

Ay, thank Susie for the button.  I knew she was right for
the job.  See now Stream didn't even sense a thing.

    ...and his engine did not pass post-race inspection

    You're kidding, right?
    

    problem with the compression rating, ruling due today, see
    www.nascar.com...