Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    I shot my first elk this year.  I received a cow license.  We had
    been hiking about 3 miles from the road and had seen nothing.  I
    was not feeling too good (cold, wet, headache, and sore from climbing
    mountains) so I started walking back to my truck.  About 400 yards
    from my vehicle, a cow ran across the jeep trail and into a meadow.
    She was running like the devil was behind her.  My first shot broke
    her back.  She still dragged herself 25 yards with her front legs
    before I hit her again.  I took my first shot at about 120 yards
    using an old sporterized Remington P17, 30-06.  I dropped her with
    a Remington 180gr bullet.
    
    I'm picking up the meat tonight from the butcher.  They estimate
    they may get 200 to 225 pounds of meat.  She was a good size cow.
    
    HAPPY HUNTING,
    
    PAT

Well, the nerve racking week, before season, paid off. I got my Elk this year.
It has been 4 years coming.

 Details follow, sorry for being long winded


It started Friday when we, my son and I, headed for out hunting spot. We got
there about 3:00 pm and set up camp. About 9:30 that night two trucks pull up,
with 3 guys. We where talking about it and agreed to get up early to bet them
into the woods. 

 Well we did. We where up at 3:00 am getting ready. Where started into the
woods by 3:30 that gave us 2:00 + hours to wait for day light. What a long cold
wait that was. 

 At first light we started walking a ridge which headed straight up,
almost to timber line. Seeing nothing along the way. When we got to the top
we agreed to take a good break to get the lungs to slow down a bit. This is
when things started happening. 

 First there was a shot way down in the valley. Just one shot. 2-3 minutes
later there where shots closure. These where from a kid that had gotten
a nice 4X4 buck. Then a few seconds later shot where being fired just
over the ridge where we had just come from. This was the guys that we
wanted to beat into the woods. They got a Spike and a 4X4 Bull.

Soon the woods above us where filled with noise, Elk running through the
trees breaking very thing in their way. The first over the ridge was
a spike bull and a cow. I only had one shot at the spike, I shot. The
spike and cow took off. I walked down to where he was at to see if I could
find blood. Looking back up the hill I found a nice hole in a Aspen tree,
clean miss.

About a minute later, again the sound of breaking timber was above us. Elk
where coming over the ridge. There where two groups of them. One was kind of
low trying to sneak along side the hill. The other was coming right over the
hill straight at us. We where on the good side of the wind and they had no
idea we where even there. I was spotting the group going low looking for
antlers, all I could really see where legs. My partner was watching the
other group as they got closer. There where about 5-6 cows and in the back
was the Bull. He was mine...

I have to say this, but I don't want to..(DAVE()) I sited in the bull and
squeezed off on the trigger, nothing happened. I looked at the gun and
shouldered it again, nothing happened. I made a *very* fast rifle switch with
my boy and the first thing he said was "Dad the safety is on". I thought the
damn thing froze or something. Boy what a fool! $500 gun and I still haven't
killed anything with it. OK, I said it. 

They, Elk, started to quarter away from us, trying to head back up the hill.
Just as the Bull turned I shot and hit him in the hind leg just above the knee.
Great shot, huh... The next shot I think was the gut shot, another great shot.
He worked his way about 15 yards down the hill by this time. I shot again
wasn't sure where this one hit. But as it turned out it was a neck shot. Which
after looking where it was, it should have been all over and it should have
dropped him right there. There was bone hit on that one, just behind the head.
Instead of going down, he leaned against a tree and just stood there. Rear
facing me. I shot again a hit right at the top of the tail, didn't do much but
fluff some hair. Just as soon as I lowered the rifle to look what happened, a
Cow was standing *RIGHT* there. At first I thought I hit her, I had no idea
where she came from, she was just standing there looking right at me. I moved
in closure and got to with in 10-15 feet away from the Bull, when he turned and
look right at me. He look a little mad and I wasn't sure which way he was going
to go. I centered on a good heart/lung shot and fired. The shot went about 3"
low and hit right at the top of the right shoulder which did hit the right
lung. That dropped him right there. 

The estimated weight was 700+ lbs on the hoof. 450-500 after field dressed.
He was a 5X5 Bull, which is about 3 maybe 4 years old.

Then came the part on how to get him out of the woods. My son and I tried to
pull the whole thing out, no luck. We where maybe 50-75 yards on the wrong
side of the ridge, which was very rocky and full of dead fall. Boy and I
pulled from about 9:00 to 4:00-4:30 pm and ony got I'd say 50 yards. This
was even after we cut him in half and quartered the rear. That was the end
of that day, we just left him up there.

 That night we went into town trying to find a horse to pull this thing out.
They wanted $75.00 to do it. So, I called DAVE() up and he was about half
packed when I called. He showed up and we told him all about todays events.

The next morning we where up 6:00 ready to go back up to pull down this Elk.
Dave() had brought a piece of plywood, small nylon rope and "The Drill". The
plywood and rope work pretty good for a while, until the rope cut through
on the bottom. Then Dave() took the front HALF and dragged it, boy pulled
one back quarter and I strapped on the other quarter, on a back pack frame
clearing dead fall fall most the way down. I figure a quarter was above 120
lbs. the front half 200-250 lbs. This is what started the note on how to
get'em out.

We did get him out about 2:00 pm., then drove home to get him to the locker.

We where back out to try and fill the deer tags we had, but no luck. The
Mulely bucks where still up high and under heavy cover and of course Doe's
where everywhere.

Over all it was great, week in the woods, Elk soon to be in the freezer.
Boy's a little upset that he did not get his deer, but... The only thing
I'm not to impressed with was my shooting, but... 
                                                     I GOT ONE.

Mark

ps: You'll know you have a GOOD friend if he helps you drag !!!

         Thanks Dave() !!!!

                      GOOD LUCK TO THE REST OF YA...

    Wow!
    
    Mark.

    Geez, great story Mark.  I thought I was there.
    
    So you missed him with your new 700 BDL you just bought?
    
    What did you take him with?
    
    How come boy didn't shoot?
    
    I assume all this was in Colorado and Dave is Dave Hagerty. 
    
    I have to sit here until Friday and dream about hunting.  You've
    made the wait seem even longer :-)
    
    Will you mount the rack?
    
    Congrats!
    
    Brett.

    Well I didn't miss him with my BDL, I could never get the trigger
    to work :-) I wish I could have used the BDL because it was loaded
    with 180 gr. bullets.
    
     The gun I used was a Western Field 30-06, loaded with 150 gr. bullets.
    150's are not enough for Elk. That neck shot proved that. This is
    the gun that my son uses. Someday soon it will be his to care for,
    I think it might make a good X-Mas present.
    
    Boy didn't shoot because he only had a Deer license, not an Elk. I told
    him that hunting is not a necessity it's a right, so he would be
    expected to buy his own license. (I think he gets more out of it that
    way) But instead of saving his money to get licenses, he bought
    cassette tapes($40 plus worth of tapes). So, I did not lend him the
    money to get an Elk tag. Which is kind of bad becuase I pretty sure we
    might have pulled two bulls out of the herd.   (sound fair ???) 
    
    Dave = Dave, the mule, Hagerty
    
    I thought long and hard about getting him mounted, but I was just
    happy to finally get him down the mountain. He was a nice Bull,
    but just not nice enough, I fell, to get mounted. He was not a Large
    5X5, and some of the tinges(?) where broke off. I have not measured
    him, to see but one antler is pretty close to 3 to 3 1/2 feet. I
    saved the antlers and all of the hide. (I tan my own). Someday
    soon the antlers will be added to the den wall.

>        Dave = Dave, the mule, Hagerty
>    
>    I thought long and hard about getting him mounted, but I was just
>    happy to finally get him down the mountain...
    
    ...but my wife objected.  I don't look like an elk, anyhow.
    
    						Dave()

    

    Just a update.  I picked up the meat last night from the butcher
    and I ended up with 227 pounds of elk meat.
    
    PAT

    Mark,
    
    Sounds very fair.  I'll bet he buys a license next year!
    
    I have to agree with Dave, he'd make an aweful mount.
    
    Brett.

    Hi Wapiti hunters,
    
    Wow those stories sound awesome.I'm an eastener veeeerrry much
    interested in planning a trip out west in the near future( next
    year or year after). It's my dream to unleash an arrow at one of
    those beasties! They must look terribly huge up close and personel!
    
    Anyway, its hard to plan a hunt not having any insight into where
    to go and so forth. I'm skeptical about guides, cause I've heard
    real horror stories about people being taken advantage of by them.
    I know that there are reputable ones out there, yet I'm not a rich
    person either. I'd like the idea of semi-roughing it, yet I can
    imagine the chore of lugging a 500+lb. beast a few miles at high
    altitude. It's plenty tough enough to drag a 100lb deer a mile out
    of the woods.
    
    If anyone has any thoughts how a non-resident could pull it off,
    I'd appreciate hearing about it. Thanks

    You wait until they go past the truck, before you shoot :-)
    
    You can pick an area with in the state of Colorado you wish to hunt.
    Most areas West of I-25, which runs from Cheyenne, Wyo through
    Colorado on into New Mexico, are unlimited, meaning pick your
    tag up at any sporting good store, for archery. Last years season
    ran from AUG 15 to SEP 20. On Sep 1 those tags automatically change
    from BULL ONLY to Either Sex tags. Some areas also has point restrictions
    which is a bull must have 4 points or better.
    
    Noresident tags $210.00
    
    Find the place you wish to hunt and get here before opening day to buy
    your tags. You can also apply for Limited License which are available
    and if you fail on those they will send you a Unlimited tag. 
    
    Nothern Colorado has the biggest herds of Elk, but there are alot
    of Elk in other places as well.  Craig, Colorado host one of the
    biggest, but alot more hunters as well.

    I belong to the North American Hunting Club, which just sent me
    a list of approved guides and outfitters.  Which is a list of all
    the Guides that members have used and liked. I can send you some names
    out of this book, if you want. Guided hunts range from $500 - $2,000.
    I know Guides are not cheap, but if don't have time come out and
    scout and area, it might be the way to go.
    
    Let me know what details your looking for.
    
    Mark
    
    ps. If your going to hunt in the Aug to Sep time frame, learn to
        bugle Elk. If the Bulls are around, they'll find you and you'll
        find them.

    Picked up the meat Friday. 273 lbs. (that's without one front
    shoulder).
    
    I guess the last shot in the shoulder did alot of damage, there
    wasn't much they could get out of it. :-(

    Mark...

    February 18-21, 1988
    
       Fourth Annual International Elk Camp and Exposition,
          The Salt Palace
          Salt Lake Sheraton & Towers
          Salt Lake City, Utah
    
    Hosted by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
    
     More information and registration forms: Call 1-800-843-7633 or
                                                   1-406-295-5424
    
    See ya there !
    
     World largest Elk's will be on display !!

     Mark

    Give me a few more weekends and I'll enter one here. I took up the
    way of the Indian this year, bow and arrow. The main reason was
    to call them in, gets real exciting that way.
    
    Last weekend was the first weekend we, my son and I, went out and if
    that was the start of things to come it will be exciting, ran into a
    herd the first twenty minutes in the woods. Woke up Saturday morning to
    cow (elk) talk.
    
    The Elk are or where not Bugling yet, can't wait till they do.
    
    Mark

    Well, another weekend down. More Cow Elk and spike bulls spotted.
    None of the big boys yet. Still not bugling yet.
    
    This Thursday starts either sex, but, I'd prefer to run into a
    nice 6X6.
    
    Any one know if the Elk are Bugling else where ? I read in the
    paper Sunday that they are in Yellowstone N.P., but they are
    also trying to stay out of the fire.
    
    It's getting cold in them there hills...
    
    Mark

    Still no bugling yet here in Colorado. I was out in the woods the
    last five days and had the best time of my life hunting, and did
    not get anything. Had many elk with in 30 yards. But, never took
    a shot.
    
     We saw more animals than ever before, elk, deer, turkey, antelope,
    coyote, and Mr. black bear. Caught fish by hand out of the stream
    by camp. It was a blast. Which is what that old bear was doing too.

    I might try going out again the weekend of the 17th, but if I can
    not make it that's alright.

    Trees are starting to change here in the high country, frost on
    the grounds in the morning. Best time of the year.

    They are starting their rut here in Oregon about now.  I went over
    to my cabin in the Blue Mountains this weekend for some grouse hunting
    and some scouting for game.  Saw lots of elk and deer (mild winter).
    The elk were herded up, but no big bulls evident on the first day.
    Second day I was walking a ridge and out came a cow elk trotting
    and looking over her shoulder.  A little later out stepped a nice
    6-point in great shape with at least 3-4 inches of ivory color on
    those dark horns.  What a magnificent animal!!!  He new I was around,
    but couldn't see me.  He would prance, throw his head, sniff the
    air and whirl around.  Finally he couldn't stand it anymore and
    took in after the cow, so I guess the rut has just started.  Not
    much bugling though.
    
    By the way, my brother-in-law and I ended up with 19 blue grouse
    and 2 ruffs.  A great weekend!!! 

    	Although I have killed several elk over the last 12 years I will 
	never forget the thrill, excitement, and hard work of bagging
	that first one.  Here is how the story goes:

	I moved to Colorado in 1976 and made friends with two guys who are
	brothers where we worked.  They invited another friend and me to
	hunt with their dad, other brother, and them.  The unit we were to
	hunt in is a specified area, meaning we had to apply in the spring
	for the tags.  I filled out the tag and chose a bull license.  Three
	months later we find out that we all drew tags.  So far so good,
	except I've never been to the area.

	Late August one of the guys and I drive out to the area to scout
	around.  We drove around looking for elk looking terrain, I would
	have not known it if it bit me.  Did some hiking and glassing and
	found some old droppings and tracks.  Now, somewhat concerned and
	disapointed, I ask my friends where I should have been looking.  My 
	friends assured me that there are elk in the area where we had been.
	Being resourseful, I called the game warden that is responsible for
	that unit.  Told him that I'm new to elk hunting, had a tag for
	that area, had been scouting, but was wondering if he could point
	me in the right direction.  He suggested that I check out a couple
	of gulches off of the main ridge.  He was very friendly and wished
	me luck.

	A couple of weeks later we drive out there again and check out the
	places the warden suggested.  Fresh elk sign every where.  Now to
	put together a hunt plan.  We did some more hiking and scouting to
	find a way into and above the gulches.  We had a plan.

	The six of us get to the area the day before season and set up camp.
	We discuss where each of us are going to hunt.  Three of the guys
	are going to hunt the other side of the ridge and three of us are
	going to hunt the gulches.  With the excitement of my first hunt
	sleeping was hard to do and then 4:00 came around.  We got up and
	fixed a bite to eat and some coffee and tea.  Packed a snack,
	checked all our gear, got in my truck and drove to the head of the
	trail we were going to use.  

	It was a long hike up the side of the ridge to get to the head of
	the gulches.  Soon we had to leave the trail and trip through the
	down fall in the dark.  One of the guys headed for another gulch
	while the other and I went down the ridge above another.  We got
	down to where I wanted to set and my friend headed down across the
	bottom of the gulch and up the ridge on the other side.  He was going
	to hunt the next gulch over.  As he reached the bottom of the gulch
	and started into the timber on the other side, I heard an animal move
	around about 100 yards below him.

	It was still an hour till hunting light and I had found a tree to
	lean up against.  The lack of sleep the night before was catching
	up with me and I had to keep telling myself "This is opening day,
	stay awake, stay awake".

	The side of the gulch I was sitting on was south facing and very open.
	The bottom of the gulch had aspens running up through it, with the
	other side covered with pines.  I was setting about 300 yards up from
	the bottom of the gulch and about 100 yards higher than the bottom.

	Daylight was breaking and I was starting to make out the trees along
	the side of the ridge and the bottom of the gulch.  Still fighting to
	stay awake, I spot a gleam from inside the aspens in the bottom of the
	gulch.  It was in the same location where I had heard some movement
	when my friend walked through.  Straining my eyes to see what it was,
	out steps a huge bull elk.  My eyes nearly popped out.  He is standing
	broadside to me 300 yards away.  Trying to keep my cool, I knew he was
	futher out that what I was sighted in for, and I knew about how much
	I should hold over at that range.  I wrapped my arm through the sling,
	pulled the stock tight into my shoulder, set the cross hairs on his
	back bone above the shoulder, and fired.  I kept my eye on him through
	the scope and nothing, I didn't hit him.  The elk is still standing
	there, I chamber another round, take aim and fire.  Again I watch 
	through the scope and nothing.  As I'm fighting back the urge to panic, 
	aka buck fever, the bull steps back into the aspens.  He is just
	standing inside the aspens, I cann't get a clear shot.  Thinking back
	to the shots I had fired, I remembered I didn't see the bullets hit
	in front of the elk.  My shots were going high.   Come on big guy,
	step out, give me another chance.  It seemed like forever, he stood
	inside those aspens.  I could see his ivory tips shining and his dark
	body.  Finally he steps back out.  I place the cross hairs on his front
	shoulder, take a big breath and exhale, and fire.  He stood still, damn
	I thought "I'm going to blow this".  Then his mighty head drops, then
	his right front shoulder, followed by his left, and then his whole body
	drops and rolls over onto his side.  "Yea!" I scream.  It seemed like
	I couldn't get get down that hill fast enough.

	The bullet had hit his back bone above the front shoulders.  As I got
	close to him he tried to raise his head.  I put two more shots into
	his head and soon he lay still.  He was huge.  Six full points, the
	rack wider than the length of my rifle.  His body was very dark and his
	musky smell was thick in the air.  I admired his size and beauty as I
	sit beside him catching my breath.  I could not believe how big he was,
	I would have to say well over a 1000 pounds.  As I looked at his body, I
	wondered how he was able to get through the thick timber with that huge
	body and rack.

	I went over to where my friend was and brought him over to my elk.  We
	field dressed it, which was not easy, and hiked back to my truck.  Four
	of us spent the rest of the day getting him out.  I was able to get my 
	truck within about 1/4 mile of him and it was a down hill haul.  He 
	packaged out at about 400 pounds and that rack is mounted in my family
	room.  I have not had the rack measured, but judging from the size of
	racks that I've seen that have been measured, I would estimate it to be
	between 375 and 400 points.

	There were two cows bagged by my friends that season also.  Although 
	I've bagged a 4X5, a spike, and several cows, none are as memberable
	to me as that first one.

	Gordon

    Neat story.  Boy I'd love to go elk hunting.
    
    Jeff

    Really was a great story, almost like being there... 
    
    Fra

    Those of you with experience in elk hunting have probably had this
    happen to you, but I found it humourous, anyhow.
    
    Last weekend, I went out with Mark Waters and his son to do some
    scouting.  They were hunting elk Hiawatha-style, and I was along
    to do see what I could see.  Matthew (Mark's boy) and I decided
    to go up one side of a valley and Mark went up the other.
    "We'll meet at the beaver ponds" was the refrain.  As we worked
    our way up the valley, Matt and Mark bugled at each other so that
    we could keep track of one another.  The bugles got further and
    further between.  Next thing we knew, Matt bugled and got no response.
    "Where in blazes did he go?" (language cleaned up for public
    consumption).   The next bugle netted a far-off bugle that was
    *horrible*.  After a couple of these bugles, Matt stated "that couldn't
    be my dad!  That's horrible!".  I had to agree.  It sounded like
    an alley cat pursuing his love interest.
    
    Still, Matt continued to bugle.  The response got closer.  I started
    to wonder if there were such things as retarted elk.  During this
    bugling process, we had made our way to a clearing so that we would
    be visible to Mark and we could link up.  I stepped to the middle
    of the clearing just in time to see a couple of hunters make their
    way down the hill.  When they recognized me and my non-wapatiness,
    we were treated to everything from a turkey call to something that
    might have been a rooster.  Then, they left.
    
    We bugled in another set of hunters.......
    
    
    						Dave()

    On my way back from Antelope hunting in Montana, we are going to
    stop in Idaho for some Elk hunting for a week.  We got a decent
    deal on a guided hunt because two guys had to drop out, thus loosing
    their $1000 deposit.  
    
    The hunt we will be taking will last from October 14th-21st.  It
    is on horseback.  They take us about 15 miles into the mountains
    (you start off in the middle of nowhere anyhow) and hunt in the
    Boise Cascades in the snow.  
    
    The guides have about a 75% success record.  There are supposed
    to be some big Elk up there!
    
    I have to go home and crank out some Elk loads in time to go on
    Thursday morning.  A week of Antelope followed by a week of Elk!
    I'm psyched.
    
    I hope and pray I get a shot at a nice bull.
    
    If we see any nice mulies, we can take one.
    
    Brett.

    Well, the Elk hunt didn't go as planned.  We drove two hours into
    the mining country of Idaho on dirt roads (prime hunting grounds
    for many if you know what I mean).  At the end of the road was our
    outfitters base camp.  It rained all day.  We got on horses and
    packed out to the spike camp, which was about a 2 hour horseback
    ride.  The elevation is about 5300'.
    
    All that night it rained.  All the next day it rained.  We were
    staying in big wall tents with a wood stove.  By noon, we couldn't
    take it.  Went out in the rain.  I mean *rain*.  Driving torrents
    with 50 mph winds at times.  We hunted all afternoon.  I was sure
    the Elk were in the pines and the brush, not in the open brush fields.
    Saw 1 Mulie doe and one very, very large black bear moving very,
    very fast.
    
    Rained all that night.
    
    Rained all the next day.  Not far from Seattle.  Recognize weather
    pattern.  Decide to leave.
    
    Good decision.......still raining in Seattle.  Must really be raining
    at 5300' in Idaho ;-)
    
    I'd go back again.  The hunting on horseback is really a lot better
    than climbing around that stuff.  On horse it takes an hour to get
    to where we want to hunt.  On foot it would take all morning out
    there and all afternoon back assuming you don't break any bones
    when you slide down the mountain.
    
    The problem is that Idaho is an expensive license.  $321 to hunt
    Elk.  I will probably stick to hunting Washington Elk this season.
    Idaho closes next Wednesday (10/26).
    
    Win some; lose some.
    
    Brett.
    

First day back on the job after a week of serious hunting.  We set up
camp Friday, 21.  There were six of us hunting out of this camp.  We
each decided to still hunt the first morning, let the other hunters push
them to us.  A couple of the guys pushed elk to other hunters as they
walked to their stands, but none of us got a shot off.

The whole week went that way.  It was hot and dry.  Couldn't sneak up
on them, kept pushing them out ahead and they were going to fast to get
a shot at.

Saturday, 29, we took stands again as the weekend hunters came back.  I
was at my stand 5 minutes when I saw a cow come down through the timber.
She froze still giving me a shot through the aspens at about 50 yards.
One shot through the lungs brought her down where she stood.  There were
about 5 or 6 more with her that stood around about a minute then ran off.

Now I've got a lot of butchering to do, she's about 450 pounds.  Trying
all morning to find a place to chill her out for a week.  One of the ice
companies finally agreed to let me put it in their cooler till Friday.

Gordon

    What di you shoot the cow with?
    
    Brett.

    < What did you shoot the cow with?
    
    Brett,

	My usual, 130 grain SPBT .270 Win. , Rem 700 ADL.  Use the same
	load for deer, antelope, and elk.  I hand load this bullet, I
	think its going about 3150 f.p.s., works for me.

    Gordon

    re:.26
    love that 270 loading... 
    
    congrats...  fra
    

This was extracted from ALIEN::FIREARMS.  I would appear to be appropriate
for this note.  Information on the firearms and loads used on this hunt can
be found in note 314 in FIREARMS.


================================================================================
Note 313.0                    Colorado Elk Hunt '85                    4 replies
ALIEN::BEZEREDI                                     161 lines  15-NOV-1985 14:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OBJECTIVE

To harvest bull (antlered) elk during the Colorado combined Elk/Deer season
from November 2 thru November 12.

THE PLACE

Colorado, specifically areas 57, 58, and 581.  This is the San Isabel and 
Pike National Forests.

THE HUNTERS

Group A						Group B
  Paul Bezeredi from New Hampshire		  Mike, Tim, and Dave (friends
  Ed Edwards from Colorado Springs		  of Ed Edwards)
  Mike Newhouse from Colorado Springs
  Corky Towle from New Hampshire


THE TRIP

After a nice comfortable plane ride to Denver and car trip down to Colorado 
Springs, Corky and I met Ed and Mike at Ed's house.  We then decided it was 
time to go and check the sights on the rifles.  At about that time the wind 
started to blow at gale forces (over 30mph).  We managed to guestimate that 
the rifles were still sighted in because the wind caused all the rounds to
drift and to hit about 18 inches to the right of where we were aiming.  That
night we got about 3 inches of snow in Colorado springs and a few more inches 
in the mountains.

The next day (friday) we got the trailer ready (a story in itself), went
grocery shopping and headed for the Pike Forest and Thirty-nine Mile Mountain 
which would be our base camp for the first part of the week.  After a nice 2 
hour drive we reached the turn-off for the mountain road.  Our problems were 
about to begin.

Our group had vehicles consisting of a 4x4 Suburban, a van, and the trailer 
(towed by the van).  When the sun came out some of the snow melted causing a 
very slick muddy condition in parts of the mountain road.  When the van and 
trailer could not make the hills, we chained it to the 4x4 and started to tow 
it.  All went fine till we hit the deep ruts.  The trailer and van slipped 
into the ruts and got stuck.  The 4x4 couldn't pull them out. After putting 
chains on the van and 4x4 we managed to make it up the hill to base camp 
which was at about 10,000 ft above sea level.  The group B hunters had 
arrived earlier in the day.

So as to make a long story short, the first 3 days of hunting produced not 
very much.  We did see elk tracks but never did we see any elk face to face.
About all I can say is that walking at altitudes of between 10,000 and 11,200
ft above sea level can be very strenuous.  Even the slightest of hills can 
cause a loss of breath.  The rule of thumb while walking was to walk for one 
minute and then rest for 2 minutes.

On tuesday morning, Corky left camp very early to get up on the hill by 
shooting light.  At about 7:00am or so shots were heard, 5 shots very rapidly
like they were coming from a semi-auto rifle.  But no one had a semi-auto.
Corky had jumped a small herd bedded down.  He then proceeded to get a very 
severe case of buck (or bull in this case) fever.  The score: Corky 5 shots,
5 misses (at about 75 yards).

The group B hunters had decided to leave that afternoon.  Ed had left the 
night before and Mike had driven him back to the Springs and would return 
tuesday afternoon.  We had heard that a severe snow storm would occur during 
tuesday night so we decided to move our base camp down to the bottom of the 
mountain.  Bad choice.

The mountain road had gotten very muddy (about 6 inched of grease like mud).
When Mike returned we loaded up and headed out.  We didn't get 200 yds out of 
camp when the van/trailer got stuck in the goo.  After using the 4x4 to pull 
them out, we decided the van could not tow the trailer thru the mud.  So we 
rigged a rope hitch to the trailer and tied it to the front of the 4x4 and 
attempted to pull the trailer out of the muddy part of the road.  Bad choice.

After traversing about 200 yds of the 400 yd mud hole, the 4x4 hit a bumpy 
rut, while at the same time so did the trailer.  The trailer slid down off 
the side of the road, down the hill, taking the 4x4 with it.  Had it not been 
for a tree and a stump the 4x4 would have rolled over and the trailer would 
have tipped.  As it was we were stuck and had to leave the 4x4/trailer and go 
back to the Springs to get help.

Ed wasn't too happy to see us (the trailer and 4x4 were his).  We managed to 
convince him that we should spend wednesday getting the necessary equipment and
go back on thursday and un-stuck the stuck vehicles.  About this time Corky was
complaining that he hurt his back while trying to get the vehicles out of the 
mud.  He decided to leave for home on thursday morning after helping us get 
the trailer out of the mud.

We left early (2:00am) for the mountains to get the stuck vehicles.  Corky 
took the rent-a-car so he could leave by 7:30 to catch his plane.  We managed 
to get the trailer un-stuck by then (with no help from the useless power 
winch we rented) and Corky took off.  After 3 more hours of work with 2 come-
alongs, rope and chain, we managed to get the 4x4 up onto the road.

As only Ed, Mike, and myself were left, we decided to head for area 57 and 
try our luck in the San Isabel National Forest.  Great choice.

After getting there and setting up camp (at 10,000ft) Ed and Mike (who both 
had deer licenses) wanted to go road hunting for deer before dark.  I said I 
would stay behind and prepare dinner as I had no deer license.  At 9:00 they 
returned with a rather large elk in the back of the 4x4 and an even stranger 
story (I'll let Ed tell it if he wants).  Ed had shot an elk at about 400 yds 
just before dusk.  It was part of a larger herd that had at least another big 
bull and quite a few spikes.  Ed's elk had 3.5 points (7 points to us 
easterners) and dressed out at about 750 lbs.

Now that we knew where the herd was we made plans for the next morning.  We
were up early and took off from camp just at shooting light.  We went about 3 
miles and over a rise looked down into a meadow and saw the entire herd just 
standing there like they were waiting for us.

Again to make a long story short, we took off into the field, got about 400 
yards from the herd, bailed out, each picked a spike (the big bull had taken 
off at first sight of us), someone (not me) shot and missed, the herd took 
off into an aspen grove and out the other side.  We took off after the herd 
in the 4x4.  When the herd reappeared, we bailed out, each picked an elk and 
fired.  I dropped mine in its tracks at 400 yds and Mike wounded his.  While 
Mike and Ed took off after the wounded elk, I took off running (at 10,400 ft
remember) after my downed elk.  When at about 200 yds the elk started to get 
up and crawl to the woods I put one shot into its backbone and another into 
its lower chest.  It still managed to crawl 30 yds to the woods and expire 
wedged between 3 aspen trees.  it was impossible to move him to his back to 
gut him.  He was heavy so I waited for 4x4 to come back and pick me and the 
elk up.

Little did I know that the wounded elk had gotten away and was shot by 
another hunter, and that the 4x4 had gotten 3 flat tires while driving thru 
the fields.  An hour or so later Ed and Mike made it back to me on flat tires
and Ed stayed to help me move my elk while Mike headed back to camp to get 
the van and change the tires on the 4x4.  It took Ed and I about 2 hours to 
move the elk, gut it, and drag it 200yds down the hill so the 4x4 would have 
and easier time of getting at it.  The elk was about a 20 inch spike horn 
that weighed in at about 600 lbs dressed.

The next day was saturday and it snowed all day (about 3 inches).  Ed an Mike 
went road riding but saw nothing.  That night we had elk tenderloin for dinner.
It sure beat Mexican burritos.

Sunday morning the plan was for Ed and Mike to go to the other side of the 
valley where we knew the elk herd might be.  As it turned out, we were right 
and we harvested another elk.  A small spike horn.  Score so far, 3 hunters,
3 elk.  We beat the odds.

EPILOGUE

On our way back to Colorado Springs we stopped at Thirty-nine Mountain to see
the boys in group B and brag about our kill success.  We convinced them to 
move to where we just came from because we knew there was still more elk 
there.  As it turned out, they harvested 2 elk on monday morning.

Final score:

	P. Bezeredi	- Elk
	E. Edwards	- Elk
	M. Newhouse	- Elk
	C. Towle	- 5 shots, 5 misses

	Mike (group B)	- Elk
	Tam (group B)	- Elk
	Dave (group B)	- no shots


================================================================================
Note 313.1                    Colorado Elk Hunt '85                       1 of 4
BISON::EDWARDS                                       50 lines  15-NOV-1985 17:05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few points of interest.

	Thirtynine Mile Mountain is relatively close to home.  It is only
about 1.5 to 2.0 hours from my house to camp at the mountain.  There are
surprisingly very few people that hunt the mountain.  That is why we chose
this as our starting point.  The mountain is pretty massive, with an east
west main ridge that runs about six miles, and gets up to 11,554 ft.  It
also has several north south ridges that run off the main ridge line.  There
are few roads that encroach on the mountain and it is heavily treed with
both pine and aspen.  Elk do tend to move on and off the mountain regularly.
However, the heavy trees, lack of access, steepness of the mountain and the
multiple ridges all combine to make it a very difficult mountain to hunt.

On Sunday, the third, in addition to seeing tracks, I jumped a group of three
Elk.  I didn't see them, but when three Elk pick up fifty yards away from
you in the woods, you know it.  I sounds like two freight trains colliding.

The next day I also saw (twice) three elk.  One was a bull, I have no idea
how big his rack was, and the other two were definitely cows.  No shots were
taken because they were spotted and through the timber before I could get
my rifle to my shoulder.  The Bull was the first one gone, and there was
no sense in trying to shoot at one of the cows.  My permit was good for 
"Antlered Elk Only".

It appeared that Corky had hit the jackpot Tuesday.  He scared up what was
reportedly 15 to 16 Elk.  I am not at all surprised that he tried to choke
himself to death.  He must have thought that he was in a war zone when those
monsters all picked up at once and started crashing through the timber.
If any of you have ever been pheasant hunting and had one of those little
birds pick up 10 feet from you you can multiply the sensation of surprise
and possibly fright by about 10,000 and you may have a close approximation
of how Corky must have felt at that moment.  But I will let him fill you
guys in on that.

At any rate, it looked like more and more Elk were moving onto the mountain
every day.  However, everybody left on tuesday.  We figured that the mountain
and the Elk could use a couple of days of quiet.  It might make the Elk a
little less jumpy.  The plan was for group A to move to area 57 and slay
some deer, then friday evening for everybody to move back to Thirtynine Mile
Mountain and try and find the Elk again.  

Group A was able to find group B again on Sunday afternoon and greet them
with a bad news/ good news joke.

	Bad news:  We didn't harvest any deer, fellas.

	Good news:  We don't have any room for them anyway, those three elk
		    in the back of my Suburban take up all the room we have.


================================================================================
Note 313.2                    Colorado Elk Hunt '85                       2 of 4
TRUCK::TOWLE                                         83 lines   2-DEC-1985 09:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I might as well tell my side of the story. I'll pick it up where Bez 
left off on Tuesday morning.

I left camp as planned, about two hours before first light and hiked to the 
top of the mountain we could see from camp just to the west. There was a 
meadow that went almost to the top so it was pretty easy walking except for 
the lack of oxygen. As Bez said, you walk some and rest a lot..
It took me about an hour to get to the top and seeing as it was 
still pretty dark I found a place to sit near where several game trails 
intersected. I had been seeing fresh Elk sign all weekend so decided this was 
the place to be. The day earlier I had tracked two or three Elk from where I 
had picked them up in the meadow to about halfway across the top of the 
mountain ridge towards the east. I stopped tracking them just short of the 
highest point of the range we were hunting when they went down the steep 
south side of the mountain. Elevation dropped rapidly and I didn't want to 
have to climb back up to the top. To say these animals can really move through 
the forest is an understatement. We had snow so tracking was no problem.
Once I got close enough that I could hear them go stampeding through the 
woods. They sounded like horses.

So back to Tuesdays hunt, around dawn the wind came up and it seemed to be 
getting colder. I hadn't seen anything yet and was getting cold so I started
walking. I went back down the mountain about 300 yards or so from the top and 
started working my way along the contour of the mountain being sure the wind 
was in my face until I spotted track. The track was made late Monday night/
early Tuesday morning and still looked pretty fresh. 
The Elk were also following the contour and were working their way to the 
top.
I finally crested the top, was following the track and saw some *real* fresh
droppings. They were still steaming. 

Now is when I started getting excited! I knew I was close and I knew they 
hadn't winded me. They might have heard me but they didn't smell me so they 
didn't take off. It took me about a half hour to cover another 50 yards 
where I then found a bunch of beds. I counted 11 before I quit. 
Some of them (in the snow where ice had formed underneath them as they slept) 
were still wet and dripping. It was cold enough that they would have been 
frozen had the Elk not left them recently.
I was real close. I went about another 50 yards and caught a glimpse of one 
moving away along the top. I started getting *real* excited. 

They had moseyed about a hundred yards along the top of the mountain not 
appearing to be in any hurry, when I crested this little rise and saw them.

They saw me too!! It was a real stampede!! You ought to hear them as they go 
crashing off through the woods. It sounded like a herd of horses or 
something!
There were Elk taking off in every direction but towards me, just as fast as 
they could. That's just about when I saw three of them standing there about a 
hundred yards away BROADSIDE just looking at me. 
I was checking them out in the scope trying to see if any had antlers. The 
one in the middle did but by the time I had picked him out they had wheeled 
and were running down the mountain. I saw three points on one side.
I didn't have the best target but I fired at the Bull anyhow and the rest is 
history. They sure can move when they have to!


Once I spooked them I had all of about 10 seconds to find the one with antlers 
and fire. This combined with the way they blend in with the surroundings does 
not make it easy to see which one has antlers. Besides, their heads were at
the dead branch level in the trees and that made it just that much harder to 
see antlers. 

I had never had buck fever until then. Knowing I was close, and finally 
seeing them put the old adrenalin glands on full flow then looking through 
the scope did the rest. An Elk in your scope is one magnificent sight. They 
are literally as big as a horse!
Never have I had the shakes like that!
I took off after them, back down the mountain, (at least they were going the 
right way (-:), found where they were when I fired and looked for blood. There 
wasn't any. 
I followed them all the way back down hoping to get another chance when they 
hit the wide open meadow just north and below camp. I lost the track in the 
meadow and hiked back uphill to camp.

As weary as I was from all that. I couldn't imagine what I'd have done if I'd 
have nailed one.

Oh well,,, maybe next time.

Still though, all in all it was a very enjoyable hunting experience.

Corky
================================================================================
Note 313.3                    Colorado Elk Hunt '85                       3 of 4
CSC32::WATERS                                        10 lines  19-SEP-1986 18:14
                        -< where is County Road 59 ?? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hey, do you guys know where County Road 59 is ?
    
    Unlimited Antlered Only Elk hunting is only east of county road
    59. I've been out there but have been unable to find it. County
    Road 53 is just south of Hartsel.
    The 1986 Hunting Information booklet has it listed in all three
    areas, 57, 58 and 581. That is a little confusing.
    I would like to go to 581 or 57, if I can find this road...
    
    Thanks much Mark
================================================================================
Note 313.4                    Colorado Elk Hunt '85                       4 of 4
BISON::EDWARDS                                       23 lines  23-SEP-1986 12:03
                            -< The answer is .... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The regs list units 57, 58 and 581 west of rd 59 under all three units.
This means that one limited license allows you to hunt all of 57, all of 58,
and everything in 581 that lies west of county rd 59.  There is no unlimited
elk hunting in those areas at all.  If you don't have a limited elk license
don't get caught with an elk in those areas.  You can, however, hunt deer in
those areas, with some limitations.

     Now, for the location of Park County Road 59.  That is the road that 
goes between Spinney Mountain Resevoir and Eleven Mile Resevoir.  It also
runs along the south side of Eleven Mile Resevoir and between Saddle Mountain
and Thirty Nine Mile Mountain, eventually meeting Highway 9 south of Hartsel.
Effectively, the only part of 581 that is included in limited Elk with 57 & 58
is Thirty Nine Mile Mountain.

     Hope this helps.  If you need more info give me a call at 2158.  I'll
be glad to share whatever information I have.

     If I were hunting Elk in the unlimited area of 581 I would either hunt
Saddle Mountain or Rhyolite Mountain.


	Ed^2

      From what I'm hearing (and reading) it looks like the Yellowstone
    Elk herd is taking a tremendous pounding this winter.  After several
    mild winters and not enough hunting pressure on areas bordering
    the park the herd size far surpasses the carrying capacity of the
    winter range.  Normal winterkill is about 10% and the animals don't
    usually start dying til March/April but they've already found 140
    dead animals back in early February.  Also, the animals taken by
    hunters were on an average, thin and showing signs of age, i.e.,
    worn teeth.
    
      I would hope that this tragedy is properly documented and utilized
    as a lesson in wildlife management for those uneducated many that
    oppose hunting.
    
    Dave

    
    To help me understand the size of the problem; what is the estimated
    herd size? or how does 140 dead animals (so far) compare with 10%
    in the past?  Is this partly due to the damage done to the range
    by the fires of last summer?  
    
    Kevin

    
    
    How about a question.  From my limited experience, I firmly
    believe that an elk is one tough critter to put down.  I've
    even read that the North American Wapiti (that's longhand
    for elk) is the toughest of all N.A. game to bring down.  I
    can't comment on that.
    
    My question is:  Where do you shoot 'em?  Do you go for that 
    area right behind the shoulder in hopes of a heart/lung shot?
    Or do you just aim right at the shoulder in hopes of breaking
    them down and preventing them from running.  I've read
    accounts of bull elk running for miles with their hearts shot
    out.
    
    OK you elk hunters, let's hear from you on this.
    
    Jerry

    
    
    re. .31
    
    I'm gonna try one more time to revive this topic.  I don't
    want to start any controversy, but I would really like some
    opinions based on experience.  So, once again, where is the
    best place to hit an elk?  With deer, I always go for the ribs,
    if possible, to try for a heart or lung shot.  But with a big
    animal like an elk, I'm not sure.  I've killed one cow elk
    and I shot it in the ribs.  It was trotting, at 150 yds., when
    I hit it in the ribs.  It stopped in its tracks, but I had to
    pump three more rounds into before it dropped.  It's quite
    possible that it would have dropped from just the first shot,
    but who's gonna take that chance.  I was using a .270 and
    one of the shots left a baseball sized exit wound on the far
    side of the ribcage.
    
    So, would I have been better off going for a shoulder?  I know
    that there's plenty of you out there with opinions, so let's
    hear 'em.   Also, I'd like a little feedback on favorite
    calibers.
    
    I'm waiting,        
    
    Jerry

    I'll bite, I would not go for a shoulder shot. That's where I hit
    my last Elk and lost most of the shoulder. Right behind the front
    shoulder should be a sweet spot.
    
    I used a 30-06 180 grain factor loads.
    
    But, as soon as I'm out of here today I'll be in the mountains
    with the bow and arrow hoping to talk'em in. :-) Bow season
    started Wednesday. 
    
    20 more minutes...
    
    Mark

    Man what a weekend.
    
    We went to the north-west corner of Colorado this weekend, (general
    enough :-). Getting there around 11:00 pm and packing in about 
    five miles and setup camp. Saturday morning we woke up and 
    glassed elk below us in the medows. After chasing then around 
    all morning and no luck we waited until evening. That when 
    the fun began.
    
    We spotted about 8 elk in a medow around 2:30pm. By 4:00 we where
    sitting on the edge of that medow. We split up around 5:00. About
    6:00 I headed into the timber where I saw the elk go in.
    
    As soon as I got into the woods, 30-40 yards, elk were everywhere. I was
    right in the middle of the herd of about 40 animals. I started cow
    calling and bugling. Not more than 20 minutes passed and a 4x4
    walked within 10 yards of me. He was walking head on to me and there
    was never a chance for a shot. 
    
    Following the cow calls and bugling all the time I finally got the
    BIG boy to bugle back. After chasing them for what seemed a half
    mile I caught up with him a another medow. I was at the edge 
    bugling with him for about 45 minutes just watching, he was about
    80 yards out. IT WAS GREAT, just like in the movies. But, he would 
    not move out of the medow and it was dark. He'll be there another
    day.
    
    I'm ready to go again, but my legs are swore !!
    
    The rut is starting early this here.

     Re: last
    
      Please don't tell anymore stories like this.  You see I have to
    wait until 10/15 before I can go deer hunting.  My brain can't take
    the overload! If I keep reading stories like yours I'll be a candidate
    at the local screw factory for a re-threading.  My wife has already
    started hiding the Field & Streams and Outdoor Life copies. So
    please, think of us poor, unfortunate souls.
    
    
    Jeff 8*)
     

    re.35
    
    Jeff, ain't it the truth!!!!!!!! I'm usually bowhunting somewhere
    early Oct, but this year I can't get out for deer til Nov. 6th.
    
    I screwed up and my got my wife pregnant,( due OCT 10) too close
    to the season! 
    
    But I'd say, keep the stories coming. It's all I can do between
    now and then!
    
    Barry

RE:            <<< Note 79.34 by CSC32::WATERS "The Agony of Delete" >>>
                              -< what a weekend >-

	Mark,

	Whats the latest?  You been back out again?  I've got reports
	of lots of elk sightings over in the unit I'm hunting in.  I've
	been too busy cutting wood and too tired afterwards to hike
	around when I've been over there.  I'm done cutting wood now
	and have the next few weekends, except for antelope season,
 	to get up there and tie one up.  

	Gordon

    Yea, I'm back, but I don't want to be.
    
    Took all last week off to hunt. 45 minutes into walking in, ran
    into a nice 6x6 bull with 3 cows and a spike. I got two shots
    off at the big boy, but missed :-(. I got to watch him totally dismantel
    a tree while waiting for my first shot. What a site. Saw a total
    of 9 animals, 1 bull, 3 spikes and the rest cows.
    
    Headed back up north after two days around Salida. Got ready to pack
    in and it snowed about 6 inches. So we never got to where I wanted
    to go.
    
    I was standing on a little hill bugling into the valley ahead of me,
    and a 5X5 bull walked right up behind me. There was no more than
    10 yards between us and here I am setup looking the other way.
    By the time I got turned around he was gone. I can't understand
    how an animal SO BIG can be SO QUIET, even in heavy timber.
    
    So again this weekend I'll be out talking to the animals.
    
    Mark
    
    ps. Sundays paper they said that there will be additional Cow tags
    given out this year. So, you can hold a bull and cow tag, in some
    areas.
    
    pss.  It is **extermly** dry in the southwest part of the state this
          year.

    I'm leaving tomorrow for 4 days of Elk hunting.  We're going about
    an hour and a half east of here.  Since I was already out der hunting
    this year, I haven't been that *exccited* about Elk hunting until
    about Saturday.  Now my heart is thumping right out of my chest.
    
    This will only be my second year of Elk hunting.  I've read that the
    average Washington Elk hunter scores every 12 years.  I don't want to
    be greedy, but I'm sort of hoping to knock down my first elk this week.
    
    I was wondering if Gordon, Mark and others may want to give me a few
    tips before I go.
    
    Also, I recently read Jim Zumbo's book in which he claims the really
    big bulls hang out in "nests" from the end of the rut till around mid-
    December.  Anybody believe this?
    
    /brett

    /brett

	Some of the things that has helped me are:

	I hunt a ridge that runs about 5 miles long north to south.  There
	are finger ridges that run down the east side of the main ridge.
	These ridges have north and south facing slopes.  The southern slopes
	are generally open while the northern slopes have heavy timber.  The
	bottoms of these easterly ridges generally run upwards towards the
	main north/south ridge.  There is generally a slight saddle at the
	top of the north/south ridge where the easterly draw comes up to the
	top.  These have been very productive spots to set opening day.  The
	elk will use these saddles to cross over the top of the ridge to escape
	to the west side.  The most used ones are at the top of very heavy
	timber draws.  During the day the elk will stay in the heavy down
	timber areas, only coming into the open early or late to feed or if
	they have been forced out of the timber.  

	If you hunt that heavy timber during the day take your time, only a
	few steps at a time, stop, look, listen, and smell.  Always be alert
	for movement and noise, limbs snapping or an elk whistle.  Keep your
	scope on its lowest power.  If you see one in there pick an opening to
	shoot through and wait for the elk to enter your scope, don't try to
	follow them with your scope to get a shot you'll just shoot trees.  If
	you spook them in the timber don't follow them.  Take off to the right
	or left depending on their direction, they will make a big circle to
	get behind you most of the time.

	Its hard to say about the big bulls.  Our rifle season starts at the
	end of the rut.  I've seen the big boys with the herds and by 
	themselves.  If he is still with the herd, he has not finished
	breeding that herd, and an old cow will be leading the herd in most
	cases.  The ones still with the herds are easier to get, the ones
	that have left the herd are tough to get.  It is true those guys will
	find the roughest place to hold up in.  They can be taken in there
	if your careful.  Remember don't follow right behind them, go off
	at an angle, usually uphill.  Good luck.


	Gordon

    Those are good tips.  They bring me to some questions.
    
    Once elk are spooked from a particular area, will they be likely
    to:
    
    A) return to the area the next day?
    
    B) cruise about 10 miles and never come back to that area this year?
    
    C) move over the ridge and hang around there for a few days?
    
    I know RM elk (as opposed to rossevelt) aren't like deer and are known to 
    travel great distances in a few hours.  Does this mean they won't
    return to a given area and are they nomadic?  Or does this just mean
    that cover very large territories?  What are their tendancies with
    regard to how far they go and what they do once they get spooked.
    
    In response to your scenario where you say elk come from the open areas
    and up over the ridges to the wooded side on opening day, I'm 
    wondering what they do once they get over the top for say the next
    morning and the next few days.
    
    Conversely, I would not be surprised to see a deer herd back in the
    same place the next day.
    
    Also, people have told me you can smell an elk at least 100 yards away
    when the wind is in your favor.  Is this true?
    
    /brett 

>    Once elk are spooked from a particular area, will they be likely
>    to:
    
>    A) return to the area the next day?
    
>    B) cruise about 10 miles and never come back to that area this year?
    
>    C) move over the ridge and hang around there for a few days?
    
	This will depend on the pressure they get from the area they run
	off to.  If no one bothers them, they are quite happy to stay
	there.  Where I hunt they seem to go about 1/2 mile before they settle
	down.  They will head for the places you don't want to go.  Last
	year I thought the elk had left the ridge, but found them 5 days
	later in the same draw they were in opening day.  I got into them
	early in the morning in a south facing clearing and they were coming 
	from the heavy timber.

	After season gets underway, the best way to get them is to post
	hunters outside the heavy timber stands and have others push 
	through there.  Important to remember though, they will be hard
	to push out.  They will tend to try to get up and around behind you.

>    Also, people have told me you can smell an elk at least 100 yards away
>    when the wind is in your favor.  Is this true?
    
	Yes.  If you or anyone gets a bull down, get a good smell of its
	belly hair.  You will remember that smell for life and when you
	catch wind of it in the woods get ready for some fast action.

	Gordon 

    Brett,
    
    Try to get one close to a road.  They are tough to pack out.  In
    case you have to pack one out, bring along a good saw so you can
    at least quarter it.  If you don't mind ruining the hide, you can
    quarter it without skinning it.  I did this and didn't ruin any
    meat.  Then I could drag it out piece at a time.
    
    Jerry

    Sorry I did not reply sooner. Been out trying to find a deer to shoot.
    No luck though. To bad I can't shoot them from my lazy boy. It's hard
    seeing them in the back yard after a week of running ridge tops.
    
    Gordon's got it covered. Hunt the darkest timber you can find, usally
    the North-East facing slopes. Watch the saddles...
    
    Another tip might be to learn to make cow calls. These work at all
    times of the year and will get them to stop, if at least for a little
    while, when spooked.
    
    Love that smell. I once walked up a ridge, wind was blowing from my
    right side, got a whiff on the wind. Turn to look and about 40 yards 
    out there he was.
    
    Mark, let us know how it went.
    
    let's see here... darn ... nine and a half months to wait. I think
    I'll hibernate for a few months.

    Thanks Mark.
    
    I just got back.  Wow!  What a hunt!
    
    For some reason I really enjoyed this more so than usual.  Having
    already gotten a buck this year, well, okay....a spike, I wasn't
    as hyped as I normally am before I go hunting.  But when I got to
    camp, I was really up for the hunt.
    
    The terrain is great.  The first day, I saw a lot of sign and thought I
    might have a chance.  The Washington average is 1 elk per hunter every
    12 years.  Well, the guys at the camp near us ought to stay out of the
    woods for a while because they had 5 bull heads lined up on a log
    within a coupls days.
    
    I tried to do a lot of the things that Gordon had suggested.  On the
    second day I was hunting in some fresh snow on top of a steep mountain.
    I was seeing fresh sign everywhere.  I guess I started getting buck
    (bull?) fever because I started looking for the bull and thinking that
    I was right on him.  My judgement became impaired and I somehow wound
    up on the backside of the mountain at 3:30 PM.    I headed down for
    the road (which I, of course, couldn't miss) and kept going down, down,
    down....until I noticed I wasn't in snow anymore.  Since I parked the
    truck well above the freezing line, I realized I was hosed.
    
    To make a long story short, I wound up digging in for the night at 5:00
    PM.  I like to think of it as a spur of the moment spike camp. :-)
    
    If not for the efforts of Dave PUGET:: Brown, I'd have been there all
    night.  Dave and friends lured me out with a few .30-06 blasts around
    midnight.  The bad news was that I had convinced myself that if I spent
    the night where I had bedded down, I would be able to jump a bull at
    first light.
    
    As it turned out, I hadn't even seen an elk by Saturday.  I was sort of
    depressed in spite of the fun I was having.  On Saturday, Dave and I
    set up stands a spot that we had scoped out the night before.  He calls
    it "Dave's Ridge" after himself.  I was on stand at 6:15, first
    shooting light is 6:30.  At about 6:45 I saw a hunter go by across the
    clearing from me and he was circling behind me.  Then around 7:00 AM
    from the stand of firs behing me I heard some twigs snapping.  I
    figured it was the same hunter.  I turned so that I could look at the
    clearing to my right.  It was about 50 yards wide.  Then it came. 
    First, a big cow scurried across the clearing.  It trotted
    perpendicular to me and only 10-20 yards away.  no bone showing.  Then
    the others with a calf skipping in the rear.  No bones on any.
    
    Even though there was no bull, I felt very excited that I had at least 
    executed a plan that got me in the middle of some Elk.  Hell, they
    almost ran me down.  I sat on stand (hoping there may be a bull
    somewhere) and listened and watched as the small herd migrated up the
    ridge across from me toward Dave.  They were snapping twigs and moving
    rocks as they climbed.  Dave and I agreed to meet at 7:30 and still
    hunt the ridge.  I went up to see Dave and asked if he saw any elk.  
    
    "See any?  They almost walked on my feet".
    
    The elk never saw either one of us.
    
    I'm hooked.  I figure I know what I'm doing to some extent, now, and I
    can't wait till next year's hunt.
    
    Thanks for all the tips and advice.  It wasn't wasted.....just 12
    months early :-)  :-)  :-)
    
    /brett
    
    P.S.  NEVER, EVER, EVER GO INTO THE WOODS WITHOUT A POCKET FULL OF FIRE
    STARTERS!!! 

    We got one!!
    
    First morning we got into a bunch.  The weather was sunny - not
    what I'd consider good elk hunting weather. I put two hunters on
    the top of the ridge and one walking an old skid trail down on the
    bottom.  Then I parked the rig and walked along the top of these
    draws that broke down toward the bottom where the guy was on the
    skid trail.  About 9 AM I heard some elk running down to my left,
    coming up out of the bottom.  I could see the herd through the trees,
    but couldn't pick out anything distinctive. I ran like hell for
    an open spot, but was loosing the race.  Then I pulled out my famous
    "cow talker" and chirped it a couple times and the whole herd stopped
    in their tracks.  Too bad for this spike.  Two shots with my 270
    Weatherby and he was down.  There was another spike in the bunch,
    but never got a chance for him.  Elk down at 9:15, back at the cabin
    by 11:00, but didn't get him skinned, washed out and bagged til
    2:00.
    
    We went out again to the same place, but just saw cows.  I did get
    a grouse with the 22 so we supplemented our dinner that night with
    fried grouse and elk liver.
    
    That night I was awaken by the sound of sleet and rain, so I had
    to get up (with my son) and move those elk into the wood shed. 
    That wasn't much fun, but saved the meat.  That day we hunted in
    fog and sleet til noon then gave up because of limited visibility.
    Got home about 9:00 pm                                       
    
    The fun stops once the animal hits the ground.  You'd think I would
    know this by now.
    
    
    Ken
       
    

    Congratulations!
    
    Sounds like you had the same weather we had.  Must have been last
    week.
    
    11 months, 3 weeks and.........
    
    
    :-)
    
    /brett

    
    
    	The Brett finder has the following to say:
    
    	
    
    
    
    	That night Brett got turned around was quite the time. We started
    by saying "Let's go in here for 20 minutes and come right back" I went
    in and out in my alloted time; no Brett. Went back in and out; no
    Brett. Sat on a promontory overlooking the truck and some likely
    looking Elk area; no Brett.
    
    	Getting dark and stormy.
    
    	Sit in truck; no Brett.
    
    	Blow horn, yell until voice gone; no Brett.
    
    	7:00 PM; drive down about 2 miles to a camp in local valley and 
    	solicit help.
    
    	They say "Give him another hour"
    
    	Another hour; no Brett.
    
    	Releived by by guys in lower camp to make 1.5 hour round trip to
    	our camp to get search help. These guys were about 3 sheets to the
    	wind when they left their camp and got lost on the road on the way
    	to my position. They finally got there as a result of my guiding
    	them in with CB. Departed to our camp.
    
    	9:35; Arrive back at last known sighting of Brett. Compare notes
    	with guys from local camp who are now so screwed up, all they can
    	do is talk.
    
    	10:00; Finally get other guys to leave so we can start looking.
    	4 of us walk into woods 100 yds guided by coleman lantern and 
     	I touch off a .44 magnum round. (the flames are **spectacular** at
    	night) Hear a shot about 2 miles away to the northwest.
    
    	Drive the road the ridgeline to the north to it's end; about 1
    	mile. 
    
    	Tough off another .44 magnum round.
    
    	Return shot much closer.
    
    	Last two steps repeated using both the .44 magnum and 30-06
    	noisemakers along with vehicle horns and headlights shown into the
    	downslope timber. 
    
    	11:45; Sight Brett's flashlight coming up through the timber (with
    	Brett); about a 75 degree slope.
    
        12:00; Go down per CB invite to the guy's camp in the lower valley
    	for Beer and Rebel Yell.
    
    
    	That's the first time I had been involved is such a situation; it 
    	was interesting but I wouldn't want to repeat it too often. 
    
    
    	Morals:
    
    		1) Get a key for the vehicle you are using. ( It was
    		Brett's, he had given me one )
    
    		2) CB's are great! This is the first time I had had
    		opportunity to use one in a seriously constructive mode.
    		I am glad I had brought my handset; Brett, you need one in 
    		your truck.
    
    		3) Carry firestarters.
    
                                                 

    Thanks Dave,
    
    Two weeks later, it's almost funny now.  The one thing I'm going
    to say (and then we'll get back to Elk hunting or start a new note
    on getting lost (and hopefully found)) is about those fire starters
    again.  
    
    I used to carry firestarters and a number of other things.  But they
    get in the way and matches will do.  Who needs to carry all this $h1t
    into the woods?  Well, I unfortunately didn't plan on getting stuck
    in the woods after dark.  I had ten matches.  The wind was blowing
    at an incredible rate and trees (big ones) were coming down all around
    me.  It had been raining/snowing for a week.  Everything in the woods
    was like a wet sponge.  I had two problems:
    
    1) I couldn't find anything dry enough to light
    
    2) and when I did I couldn't keep my matches lit long enough to light
       anything. 
    
    I squandered my matches early in the game and had to spend the time
    without a fire.  I was able to keep warm because I dug a hole under a
    tree and was able to bury myself from the waist down in dirt.  However,
    if I had a nice little bon fire, I mightta stayed the night in hopes
    of getting that big ole bull.
    
    Next year, I'm gonna carry those 20 minute firestarters that come with
    built in match heads.  Now if I had some of them.    Oh yea.......and a 
    porcupine!
    
    /brett
    

    Nothing beats a Bic lighter for starting fires and they don't
    take up much room!  Glad this had a happy ending....8-)
    
    Clay

      
    
       Bic lighters are ok but the can explode if left on for a long
    time (trying to dry kindling) and they also wont work below a certain
    temperature.
    
    
                                                try parafan wax cardboard.
    
                                                   Lee
    

    I always carry a couple of small candles.  Never had to use them,
    so I can't swear that they work.  However, it makes sense to me.
    
    Jerry

RE last few...

Check the survival conference.  There's a lot of good info on what 
makes a good firestarter kit in it.  One of the examples was a fanny pack 
that had a ziplock bag, and in the z-bag would be waxed wood shavings 
and a bic lighter or matches.  In any case that might be a good 
conference to look through...

Scott

    re .52...
    
    The candles work well.  I got a fire started when it had been raining
    heavy for two days.  Dropped wax over some of the smallest kindling
    to be found.  Had a good warm fire withing 15 minutes.
    
    Greg

    Cedar bark works very well as a firestarter. It will burn even if it is
    wet. Usually Squaw Wood (the dead wood still attached to the tree) will
    burn very well and is usually fairly dry.
    Lowell
    

    A friend of mine saves lint from  his clothes dryer to help get
    a fire started.  I've never tried it myself, but the notion
    does have some merit.
    
    Jerry

	Does it matter what type (material of clothes dried) lint it is?

	I heard that it was excellent tinder and was going to use it
	when training Scouts on primitive firestarting techniques.
	Gave it up for two reasons: 1) lint from synthetic materials
	dried in a modern electric dryer is hardly akin to anything 
	primitive and 2) it didn't work/couldn't get a spark to stay 
	"caught."

	Maybe if you only used lint from dried cotton, etc. it would
	work much better.

	AA  

    re. .56
    
    Thanks for the feedback on lint.  Like I said, I never tried it
    myself.  Thanks to your reply, I now doubt that I ever will.
    
    Jerry
    

If you have birch trees available they make excellent tinder, even when soaked.
Strip off a hunk and then shave it very thin into pile, can usaually get it 
going on first or second (wind-proof) matches.

Jack

     I was wondering if one of you Washington Elk hunters could give
    me some information on the 1990 Elk seasons.  I was invited to go
    out and do some Elk or Deer hunting with my wife's uncle who is
    a resident of that great state and I may just take him up on his
    offer.  He mentioned that cow tags were easier to get for the muzzle
    loader season.  
     If anyone knows the season dates, cost and availability of Elk
    tags for both the Muzzle loader and rifle seasons, I would appreciate
    it if they would list them here or send me a message.
    
    Thanks in Advance,
    
    Bruce

    Bruce,
    
    With Dave Brown moving to Denver and the rest of the Elk hunters at
    DECwest going to Microsoft, I can't think of anybody else from
    Washington that reads this file.   So I guess that leaves me.
    
    I believe a non-resident hunting license costs $125, which is
    reasonable for the NW.  For a resident Elk tag it costs $15.  For
    a resident cow lottery ticket, it costs $5.  I don't know what it
    costs for non-resident tag and lottery tickets.
    
    As for season dates, you'd need to know where your relative plans to
    hunt as opposed to where he lives.  The state is divided into 3-4 elk
    areas.  Each has a different season.  Then there are 3 weapon seasons: 
    firearm, archery, and muzzleloader.  For firearm, there is an early and 
    a late season.  If you apply for cow tags you must hunt in the late season 
    and if you don't you get to hunt in the early season which opens 3 days 
    before the late season.  Simple huh?
    
    I would advise that you get a WA state hunting pamphlet by calling :
    
    	(206) 775-1311
    
    This number is in "Mill Creek".  Mill Creek is a small town near me,
    not near the state capital of Olympia.  When you look up the WA state
    F&W number. it gives you the local branch as opposed to Olympia.  The
    locals told me that if you call them, they'll be happy to send you what
    you want.   
    
    If you want, you can tell me where your uncle lives and I'll guess
    where he hunts for you :-)
    
    /brett
    
    p.s. If you're in old growth forrests, watch out for owl $h1t.

    Brett,
    
    Thanks for the quick response.  It looks like I'm going to have
    to spend some time on the phone with the wifes' uncle if I'm going
    to pull this off this season.  Lots of details to work out.  I've
    had a long time desire to do some Elk hunting but have been scared
    off by the high price tags that come along with guided hunts.  When
    Uncle Ed said "come on out and we'll do some elk hunting" I almost
    fell off my chair.
    
    My mother-in-law is out in Washington now visiting Ed and is suppose
    to bring back all the information I requested in the earlier "note"
    but I'm a little anxious about the hole deal and thought I'd try
    this notes.  The information you gave has added fule to the fire.
    Thanks...  I'll make that phone call tonight and keep you posted
    on my progress.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Bruce

    I think the deadline for cow tags is real soon or maybe expired.  You
    may want to make a call and find out.  Maybe your mother could apply
    for you if you really want to???????
    
    On the other hand, hunting for bulls is just as much fun.  You don't
    really need a cow tag and rarely get them.
    
    /brett

    p.s.  If your uncle is near the Seattle/Bellevue area, look me up when
          you get here.
    
    /brett
    

    Brett,
    
    I intend to make a call tonight to get a few more details.  I put
    together a list of about twenty questions to ask him.  I'll find
    out exactly where he lives and hunts and if he's close to where you
    are, I'll look you up when I get there.
    As for a cow tag, it matters little to me if I can't get one.  I
    really will enjoy spending some time in the mountains.  And if we
    do happen to get into the Elk, well that will make the trip even
    better.  I hunted in Colorado about ten years ago and was impressed
    with the quantity and verity of game out there.  Now the opportunity
    for me to go to Wahington is knocking, and as much I love hunting
    and the outdoors, I would be a fool to let it slip by.  
    
    Bruce

    Hey, wait a minute here.
    
    I'm an Elk.
    
    I'm not goin near you guys !!!
    
    Jim
    

    Oh, come on. 
    
    Put the suit on.
    
    Save me a trip to Washington.....
    
    
    Bruce
    

    No one is talking about their 90 elk season, except the Arizona
    hunt (which sounded terrific).  What about the rest of you guys???
    
    I went out around the cabin again this year.  I have seen more elk
    all through the year than in the past, but when the season opened
    there were no bulls to be found.  The temperature was in the sixties
    for the first four days, but the ground was wet and the walking
    was quiet so no excuse for the noise.  I think they were feeding
    all night and holed up in the bottom of the canyons during the day.
    
    The closest I got was on day three.  I knew of a natural pass where
    the elk will pass from canyon to canyon if pressured from below so
    I headed there first thing.  After crossing back and forth over
    this section for 3 hours - walking, sitting, listening for any
    elk moving - I had just about given up when someone shot about 50
    yards above and to my left and then a yell. When I walked over to see
    what had happened a guy had a 4 - point down.  It turns out he was
    a guide and had just left a bunch of hunters off down in one of
    the canyons. He was headed back to his rig when this herd of elk
    came by.  It could have just as easily been me as I had crossed
    that spot not 5 minutes earlier.
    
    The snow set in on Wednesday.  I hunted around the cabin for a couple
    of hours, but no sign.  The weather was really getting rough.  We
    winterized the cabin and pulled out that night.
    
    
    Ken   
              

    If I hired a guide and he shot a 4 point (or a spike) after dropping me
    off, I'd have shot *him*.
    
    We went to Montana this year and didn't see squat.  I found some fresh
    sign in one area and spooked something big out of a nearby clear cut
    that had been growing for about 10 years...you know so the trees are
    about 2 feet taller than you.  Never saw what I spooked.  The snow was
    real crunchy and it was hard to move around quietly.
    
    Next year, I'm seriously considering a bow hunt.  As much as I like
    rifle hunting, I was thinking that I could get out there early for
    archery season and maybe even try bugling.  I figure there will be a
    lot less people out there.  Then I could could up to Taneum
    Creek/Manashtash Ridge area between Yakima and Cle Elum.....have the
    place to myself and kill one of those big suckers.
    
    I've seen cows in that area and heads of bulls tied to windshield
    wipers.
    
    What do you think?
    
    I'm getting tired of not shooting an elk.
    
    /brett

    Brett
    
    When I hunted in Montana our guides didn't even carry rifles, so
    I don't know what the situation was.  I talked to the rancher who
    also runs the hunting camp (we went to high school together) and
    he was saying they had hunters out about 2 miles from where the
    elk were, so I guess they figured if they didn't shoot them, no
    one in their bunch would.  I didn't press the issue.
    
    When I worked in Bellevue a lot of the people hunted elk around
    the Cle Elum area, but I'm not sure where.  It's nice and convenient
    if you know where to go.  I mostly hunted around Twisp area for
    deer and out of state for elk.  No apparent reason for this, it
    was just the way it happened.
    
    
    
    Ken

    
    Well, the other thing about Cle Elum and Manashtash is that you can
    avoid all that rain that you have to deal with on the East side.  North
    of I-90 is the Kolockum area.  I hear it's good also.  In fact they put
    up new fences along I-90 this year because a herd of Elk caused a 40
    car accident last year when they decided to cross at a bad time.
    
    I second the deer hunting around Twisp.  I've hunted there and way out
    in Okanagon near a place called Rock Lakes.  Nice country.
    
    Maybe we'll meet one of these days.
    
    /brett

    
    
    	Hey Brett,
    
    	Hows things in Washington? Things here in Colorado are doing great
    if one overlooks the fact that I won't be hunting this year. Serious
    bummer. 
    
    	Re: .69 Yea, I am going to try archery too, I think I told you
    about the new bow I got. But I may do Modern Firearm to begin with.
    
    	Taneum Creek/Manashtash area to yourself during archery season? Not
    probable. I've been up there then and there are more camps (and hanging
    animals) than during modern season. It rains there too, remember last
    year? You ought to see if you can get together with Rick Haller
    (Bellevue Office) if you're thinking archery. The group that he goes
    with has a very good track record. They go everywhere from the Pouge
    unit to Stampede Pass area and into the watershed around
    Chester-Morse Lake. (Some serious monster Elk in there! And don't
    forget the Penninsula.) Look him up and tell him I sent you.
    
    	Now all I got to do is figure out this Colorado joint somewhat.
    
    	Dave

    Really?  I was thinking of the area we went to, as you've guessed. 
    Remember that one guy that came to camp with the kids?  I can't
    remember his name but his wife was the short nurse.  He used to go
    there to hunt archery and said it was better during the bow season.
    
    I went out to Potholes to hunt ducks over Thanksgiving.  We stopped at
    the gas station near Taneum (the one near camp where went to get gas)
    and I talked to the owner.  I asked him how elk season was there this
    year and he said it was amazing.  He said that on opening day one truck
    of 4 hunters came out and they had all limited.  Then another truck of
    3 came out with the same story.  He said there were some big racks like
    he never saw before.  He told me where they were really shooting them
    (Joe *something* area).  I'll have to look at the old map.
    
    I may look the guy up you mentioned.....if the local office is still
    open next summer ;-)
    
    /brett

    
    
    	The area that were in would be good for archery but it is in no way
    empty of people. Many archers show up there. I'd try it if I had the
    opportunity. Either there or the Stampede area or inbetween...
    
    	Ah yes the good ol' Bingo station @ exit 101. Joe something? How
    about Joe Watt canyon (or known as Watt Canyon on the map). It's
    between where we camped last year and the gas station. Good place. That
    is where that pair of guys who went through several cases of ammo
    within 2 minutes got their 5-point that we saw last year. The Joe Watt
    area is also where the V-8 Landcruiser club camps and has camped for
    the past 12 seasons.
    
    Dave

    Yea, Joe Watt.  That's it.  
    
    I'd really like to set up camp near where we hunted that last day when
    we met those guys with the landcruiser club.  Do you still have that
    map?  Think you could figure out where that was?  I'm sure I've
    forgotten how to get up there.
    
    Maybe I'll got up there and do some scouting after the ice thaws.
    
    /brett
    
    p.s. As I said in another note, they put all new fencing in along I90
    there due to the elk overflowing into the traffic.  Now that's waht I
    call elk sign and I ain't no Jim Zumbo!  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Well, how you get to Joe Watt is to go back down to exit 101 and head
    south after exiting on Thorpe Hiway. Proceed about 1/4 mile and take a
    right at Cemetary Road at the top of the rise. This will go back and
    parallel I-90 for a bit. After a couple miles of this, there will be an
    opportunity to take a diagonal left turn (don't know the name of the
    road, suspect it's Watt Canyon Rd.). Take this left and after about
    another mile, you will be right in the middle of the lower camping
    area. Continue up this road (which is really bad) and you'll be going
    right up Watt Canyon. The road goes right to the top. Keep going strait
    after getting to the top and you'll eventually end up at Tamarack
    Springs and into where we were hunting last year.
    
    	Enjoy!
    
    	Dave

	A discussion came up about the big elk rack hanging down in
	Crested Butte.  The details were foggy to both of us.  I can
	only recall that it was shot in the 1800's and for some reason
	cann't be in the record books.  Does anyone know the facts
	about this rack?

    I have a book at home that tells the story. I'll try to remember to
    bring it in.
    
    If I remember right the guy who shot it traded the rack for his liquor
    bill. It hung there for awhile and then was inheriated by the bar
    owners son or some relative.
    
    It gets confusing I bring in the book.
    
    mark

    
    This is from the Bugle, Summer 1985. There is another Bugle with more
    details in it, I was unable to find that one, like 87 or 88.

                          NUMBER 1
One is immediately struck by the massiveness of the rack.
 The lengths of the main beams are, in fact somewhat less than those of the
three other top Boone & Crockett racks. Nevertheless, one's impression is:
"Yes, that's number one, and it deserves to be number one. It's not
particularly symmetrical; in fact, it looks a little deformed, but MY GOOD-
NESS, look at the mass!"
 The data backs up one's first impression. The circumference at the smallest
place between the first and second points of the let antler is 11 2/8 inches;
the right antler is even more impressive, at 12 1/8 inches. Even far out on
the beams, between the fourth and fifth points, the circumference measurements
are nine and eight inches respectively-or about as big around as a beer can.
 Ironically, though this biggest of all recorded bulls took a circutous route
to recognition.

 Way back in 1899, a hunter and mountain man named John Plute shouldered his
30/40 Krag and took a walk west of Crested Butte, Colorado. There, about twelve
miles from town, he carved a permanent little niche in history for himself by
knocking down the biggest bull elk ever recorded.
 Whether Plute had any inkling of the magnitude of his feat or not will never
be known.

 That he used the rack to pay off a bar bill is still a matter of conjecture,
but those marvelous antelers did wind up in the possession of John Rozich
round 1915. Rozich hung tham in his bar where they languished in glorious
obscurity for over forty years as nothing more than a local conversation
piece. But after Rozich died, his stepson, Ed Rozman, recognized the antlers
as something special and decided to find out just how unique this local
phenomenon was.
 In 1955, he contacted the Boone & Crockett Club and found out that he needed
an offical measurer to properly evaluate the rack, and that meant a trip to 
Denver-an expense that Rozman was not prepared to undertake. He simply left
the antlers hanging in the bar until he was approached by someone from the
Hotckiss Elk's Club, who promised to get the rack measured if Rozman would
leave them on exhibit in Hotchkiss for five years.
 Rozman agreed to the proposal and sent the antlers to the Hotchkiss Elk's
Club, where they remained until 1961. Finally, Jesse Williams of the Colorado
Game and Fish went to Hotchkiss to measure the rack.
 His findings were so astonishing that the trophy was sent to New York for 
verification. The offical measuring process revealed a final score of 422 3/8,
which bested the old record by 5/8 of a point. There was a brand new world
record Wapiti and it only took sixty-three years to find its way to 
recognition.
 Is there another one out there like it ? Well, the next time you're over at
old Uncle Joe's, why don't you just stick a tape on that big rack you've been
wondering about all these years. Just maybe...

	Well I'm back to the grind.  This years elk hunting was very warm
	and dry, except for the end of the week we got a slight bit of snow.
	Sat, Sun, and Mon we are spooking elk left and right in the aspens
	and pines.  I don't get even a sight of them.  A couple of the other
	guys get shots, but no hits.  Tuesday AM I decide to change hats and
	guns, got out the .300 mag and neon orange hat.  They like that neon.
	Walking in on a trail we jump a large bull, then later a cow.  On the
	walk back on the trail I'm kind of bumming and theres a cow 10 feet
	away.  While trying to see around a pine between us, she trots out
	another 20 feet into a clearing.  .300 mag had her feet side up and
	my ears ringing.  Ken, my partner, and I clean her out and guess it
	to be about 400 pounds dressed.  Leave it till the next day to cart
	out.  Wed Ken gets shots at a large herd, but no hits.  Thursday it
	snows a slight bit, just enough to quiet things down.  We see some
	more elk but no kills.  I'm looking for a big buck now.  The other
	guys see deer and elk to shoot at but don't connect.  Friday we find
	where the bucks and elk are holding up at and try some drives.  Still
	no kills.  Saturday morning the guys got into them again, but again
	no kills.  We break camp at noon, Ken and I head home.  Ronnie and
	Ernie want to go back after the elk.  Ronnie got an approx 250 pound
	cow.  Its snowing hard up there now and they are up there pulling it 
	out of the timber.

	All reports so far indicate a very poor success rate.  This is due
	to the dryness and mild weather.  This weeks predicted snow may
	change things for the third season hunters.  Hang on to your unused
	tags as there could always be a late season hunt.  Have to watch the
	tv news and papers for that possibility.

	Gordon

>	Sat, Sun, and Mon we are spooking elk left and right in the aspens
>	and pines.  I don't get even a sight of them.

	Yup.  The first part of this 2nd season was tough to hunt.  I spooked
	a bull (a guess just from the size of the trees broken when "he"
	took outa there) at about 20 yards walking game trails in the heavy 
	timber.  Never saw "him."  Next day, spooked a cow (saw this one)
	from a bed at about 20 yards again.  Walking through the oh so quite
	dry aspen leaves ;-) ... almost croaked on the spot.  These critters
	make a LOT of noise when kicked up.  (You think a grouse or quail
	spook you when you flush a covey at your feet!?)  Never even got my
	rifle up for a shot and attempting to pursue was ludicrous.  Saw
	three cows cross a two-tracker in front of the LC when going to a
	stand area ... nothing doing there.
	
	While still hunting through a very nice heavy timber area, I 
	walked up on a large doe who at first was a cow, then a buck with a
	very nice rack and finally just a large doe.  Amazing what the
	mind will do. ;-)

	My hunting partner walked up on two spike bulls (~10" & 12" fork)
	at ~30 yards and got to run the scope over them for a few minutes.
	These guys weren't legal for anybody that season.

	I did get to pattern a couple of fork horn bucks for a couple of
	days but again, not legal that season.  Spent some time sneaking
	up on some does, etc. just to for practice.

	All in all a pretty bleak 2nd season for us in CO as far as
	getting the goods.  'Course, we are all out there for the
	experience and actually getting something is only a bonus.
	Right?  Well ... ;-)

>	All reports so far indicate a very poor success rate.  This is due
>	to the dryness and mild weather.  This weeks predicted snow may
>	change things for the third season hunters.

	I hope so re the 3rd season ... we woke up with ~4" and still coming
	down.  Heard the southern end of the state got 2-4 feet right
	after we got out.  Should change their patterns a bit.

	If the 3rd season doesn't fair much better and we don't have
	a special season, there's gonna be a hard winter kill (in the event
	we get a _real_ CO winter this time around).

	AA

    type: Large Cow Elk (500-700 lbs ???)
    taken: 7mm Mag Smith and Wesson bolt action rifle
    date: Nov. 3rd (second day) high noon.
    where: between Silverthorn and Kremling (area 28 near Henderson Mill)
           Colorado
    shot: upper lung, traveled 80 yrds 
    distance from camp: 3 1/2 miles. Whew, what a workout. Got smart on
                        last cow, plastic tarps have a much lower co-
                        efficient of friction (dog team style drag)
    
    1-2 feet of snow, below zero nights in a tent. Fantastic hunting!
    After our hunting group baged 3 cows, decided to pack up and go
    hunt the deer where it is warm. Hunted two days in Arkansas River
    canyon near Cotopaxi. Seen lots of does, but no bucks.
    
    chuck
    

    My first elk hunt in Colorado.  No luck.  It snowed for the first
    couple of days, but it cleared and froze.  You couldn't walk without
    the crunching of snow.  I did get a look at 4 head.  1 spike and 3
    cows, but they were about 400 yards away and moving through the brush. 
    I would have shot if I could have got a clear shot, but the spike never
    slowed down in a clear area and I wasn't about to shoot at that range
    unless it was a clean shot.  Interesting area (around Bayfield), a lot
    of hunters and a lot of private land, as someone pointed out in a
    previous note.
    
    I leave tomorrow for E. Oregon on my place, so maybe the story will be
    different.
    
    Ken

    As luck would have it I did have better luck in E. Oregon.  On Sunday
    morning I spotted a spike trying to sneak through the timber and get
    away.  It was at the top of a canyon that usually has elk in it.  I
    pretty will knew what areas they move in, but sometime the timing isn't
    quite right.  This time I spotted him through the trees and just waited
    til I got a clear shot.  Then I missed.  I don't know what it is, but I
    seem to under estimate my gun all the time and shoot high.  The next
    opening he came through I was better prepared and hit him through the
    chest (I found out later).  I didn't see him drop, but he never showed
    himself again.  I waited and scoped the hillside, but didn't see him
    come out.  Then I had a long walk down the canyon and up the other side
    to him, but he was lying pretty close to where he was hit.  
    
    As any elk hunter knows, the fun just begins at this point.  I couldn't
    get the attention of any of my hunters, so I got the opportunity to
    dress him out by myself.  It isn't too bad if you have someone to hold
    the legs out so you can work on him, but without that it's a real
    chore.  I finally got the 4wd close enough that I could rig up
    something with ropes to spread eagle him out so I could finish the job. 
    Of course one of my hunting partners showed up just as I finished, but
    he did help load it in the rig.  Had it back to the cabin, skinned and
    cooling out in the wood shed by noon.
    
     

    So what's the scoop this year on Colorado elk hunting?  It seems
    that this note is dead.............
     
      This year I've been lucky enough to draw a 1st season cow tag,
    for area 551 in Colorado. (the area is just west of the continental
    divide, and south of hyw. 50)  We are going to be hunting around
    Needle Creek Res. and up to the top of Mt Baldy.  BTW Mt Baldy is
    not bald.  This area is dense dark timber.  Max range maybe up to
    50 yrds.  On our first scouting trip we saw lots of deer right down
    in our camp.  Went for a early morning walk and snuck up on four
    doe's, got within bow range on one or two.  Also this is where I'll
    be Bow hunting for mulies this year.
       On some of our hikes we saw plenty of fresh Elk sight at about
    9500 ft.  So the possibilities are good for lots of animals opening
    day.  Have any other Colorado hunters tried this area?
    
    
    Joe

    
    	I didn't realize you could get a cow tag for 1st season.
    	First season (rifle) has always been bull/buck only that
    	I remember.  Is this a special hunt?
    
    Clay

    No not a special season.....As it turns out this is the first time
    that the DOW has issued cow tags.  Some areas did'nt get any issued
    but alot of them did.  Could be that all these mild winters is building
    the elk herds up faster than the normal hunter sucess rate can control.
    In the 1992 stats book the DOW list area 551 as being a top producer,
    but they also add it's heavly timbered and hard to get into and
    out of.  As I've said the area we are hunting is dark timber up
    to the top of the mountain (11,500ft). 
    
    Joe

    	As Joe noted almost a year ago, this note seems to be dead at this
    time.  I hope not.  I have high hopes that there are still wapiti
    hunters still reading this note and willing to exchange hunting stories
    and info.
    
	I went to the Cimarron Valley, south and between Montrose and Gunnison 
    during the '90 hunting season.  I went with 4 others from CXO for first 
    season.  Beautiful area but no one got to shoot at any bulls.  I saw one 
    large cow on the second day as I was going up a dark timber draw early in 
    the morning.  I was very quiet, taking about 3-5 steps at a time then 
    stopping to look, listen, and smell.  This cow apparently crossed my
    path about 40-50 feet behind me when she scented me.  She came to
    attention, broadside to me with head held high, and barked an alarm and
    took off.  She was out of sight and earshot in about 2 seconds.  One of
    my hunting partners snuck up on a cow, thinking he'd see a bull close
    by.  She did have a bull nearby, but he was behind my partner.  This
    bull took for the next county and the only thing my partner could get
    focused in his scope was the tail end just before he disappeared for
    good.
    
    	Last year, the '92 season, I went with Joe to area 551 for bull elk. 
    We hunted our hearts out but only saw 3 cows for about 10 seconds,
    about 400-500 yards away as we were Jeeping into a valley to survey it
    for possibly hunting it the next day.  We didn't see any fresh sign
    until the last day when he and I individually found very fresh
    droppings but couldn't track the animals in the thick grass.  We did
    however, see LOTS of deer.  On one afternoon/evening alone we counted
    41 does.  I snuck up on a 2-point buck the 4th day without him even
    knowing I was there.  I watched him through a small opening in the
    trees and brush through binoculars and even through the rifle scope
    before I moved on.  
    
    	The last day, when we found the fresh sign, we climbed to the top 
    of one mountain and saw what is probably the BIGGEST buck I've ever seen 
    in the wild.  He had his head in the trees and into the wind when Joe 
    and I both spotted him standing broadside.  All we could see was this 
    huge rump and full belly just up to the front shoulders.  Due to the size 
    and the shadows and coloration he had we thought he was a cow at first. 
    We both approached slowly, ready to take "her" down (actually I thought
    Joe would get to shoot as he had the cow tag and I had a bull tag). 
    This "cow" reared back as we approached, enough to clear the trees "her" 
    head was in and turned away from us and ran down the ridge.
    
    	Low and behold, there was this great rack of antlers on this
    animal.  I thought momentarily that we now had a bull running away
    until we saw it bounding away like a deer, not trotting like an elk.  I
    had my rifle up, the safety off, and looking down the right flank of
    this animal, and just about to squeeze of a round right behind the ribs
    when Joe and I both determined it wasn't an elk but a huge buck with a
    great set of antlers.  This was one magnificent animal.  We jumped it
    again a little further down the ridge.  We didn't get to count the
    points on this bruiser but however many it had it would have looked
    nice mounted.
    
    	I am planning to hunt the NW corner of Colorado this year, up
    around and south of Craig.  According to the Colorado Outdoors hunting 
    stats book put out yearly, this area has had better than average success
    rates for all three rifle seasons the past two years or better.  I've
    also read in books on elk hunting that this has traditionally been a
    good area for some number of years.  We're hopefully going to have 4-5
    hunting partners going up there for first rifle season.  We also plan
    on one or two scouting trips during the summer and early fall to verify 
    where we'll be camping and hunting.  I hope to be able to put another 
    reply in this note after the hunt to announce that our hunt was a 
    resounding success.
    
    Steve
    
    P.S.  Keep this note alive!!!

    
    	Am currently planning an Elk hunt into Montana with an 
    	outfitter out of CASCADE called DL ELK Outfitters, INC.
    	They are primarily a 4x4 hunt on private land in the Big Belt
        Mountains at elevations ranging 5-7K.  I can go for either a 3 species
        (Elk, Mule, Whitetail or 4 species (above plus antelope in early
        season & lotter luck).  Am asking if anyone ?
    	  1. has any experience with this outfitter.
          2. has questions I should be asking.    
          3. any other advice/recommendations
    
    	thanks,
    	Walt
    	ATPS::Miller
    

    re -1
    
    Is this Cascade just south of Great Falls?  If so, I used to rattle
    around that area during my sheep shearing days.  I worked on a crew
    during the summers that sheared on some of those ranches out there. 
    The two I can remember were Seban (sp) and Adel.  Adel was so big it
    had its own Zip code.  I saw lots of deer and antelope and a few elk,
    but we spent most our time in the foothills.  Didn't everybody work
    their way through school shearing sheep??  Anyway, it's pretty country
    and you can wade the Missouri River up there if you want.  Probably at
    that time of year you can walk on it.
    
    I have hunted with guides in Montana.  One time out of Livingston. The
    other time out of White Sulpher.  The first time was horse back for
    five days.  I got the feeling the guides were more interested horse
    back riding than hunting.  I got an antelope and a deer.  No elk.  The
    next time was with the same outfitter, but at a different place.  We
    had horses, but were able to get most places by 4wd.  Got a deer and
    elk.  Didn't go antelope hunting.
    
    A couple of pointers.  It's your money, but they know what they're
    doing.  If you don't want to hunt the way they want, you won't have to
    but, they know the country and where the animals run so it's probably
    better to stick with them.  The guides don't make a lot of money, so if
    you get good service you should tip them.  5-7K is high enough that
    unless you're used to it you'll have a hard time keeping up with those
    guys.  Remember, they don't drive a desk all day.
    
    You should have a good time and it WILL be an experience you will
    remember - good or bad.
    
    
    Ken  

     I'm Looking forward to late Sept early Oct, me and
     and 3 friends got or general Statewide Bull Elk licence
     for Wyoming. We will guided up into the mountains by
     horse back And we will be on our own. A drop camp setup
     My friends have been fairly successfull before using this
     method. The Guide will be back every other day to pick up
     meat whatever. Now were waiting to see if we get our Muley
     License we should know by early april. We will be hunting
     near jackson hole and Tuaton national park area I'm not
     hundred percent sure though. I keep you updated I heard
     the Elk herd is doing good this year. Anyone ever hunted
     this way or area??
    
    Seeya
    Mike G
     

    got my colorado elk lic. today. after trying 3 years in WY i gave and
    on my first try in CO i got one. can't wait.
    
    also got a mule deer lic. in SD. 
    
    the weatherby will get a workout this fall. 2 shots. :-)

    I got mine from Wyoming along with 7 friends but we only
    got 2 muley Lic. out of eight. 4 of us will be hunting
    any elk starting Sept. 26  So less than 8 weeks we will
    be on horse heading up into Gods Country. This will be
    my first Elk hunt. 
    
    Good luck to All
    Safe Hunting
    
    Mike G >>>>----------------> 

    19 days away for opening Co. muzzle loader elk.  Heading up in 17 days -
    counting the seconds.  Good luck to all that have a license this fall.
    Friends say that males are already beginning to bugle.
    
    First estrus (sp?) should be in full swing when the season opens. 
    
    Hopefully I'll find the 6 by this year - already got a pair of 5 bys.
    
    Dry powder and a steady hand.

    I'm ready!!!!
    
    Two more months for the Rocky Mountain Elk season to start.
    
    Grouse/quail/partridge/dove season starts starts next weekend.  I use
    this time to scout for deer/elk.  There are a couple of herds that are
    hanging around the cabin.  One with 6 bulls.  3 nice branched bulls and
    3 spikes.  The other bunch has some bulls, but no one has an official
    (?)  count.
    
    It's hard to get your heart up for elk hunting when it still looks like
    summer here in the Willamette Valley, but it's nice to here about
    someone who is "out & about".
    
    Good Luck!!!
    
    
    Ken

      Harvested: 1 bull elk, 5*4, about 500+ lbs.
      Location:  Flattops Wilderness Area, Colorado.
      Days hunting : 2.
      Time:  6:30 pm.     
      Gun:  CVA Hawken, 50 cal.
      Bullet:  355 grain, 85 grains ffg.
      Method of hunting: Stalking/still hunting.
      Shot distance: 25 yds.
      Distance traveled after shot: 50 yds. off a flat level area into steep
		steep dark timber.  

Good luck to all going out soon/this fall.

Mark
    

    Mark,
    
    Way to go!  That is a bunch of meat.  
    
    Wess

How much fun was it getting that elk out of the timber? ;-)


steve

    re .96
    
    good show mark. i shall be "down" in that there neck of the woods later
    this fall. only i'll be toting a .300 mag for the elk and a .270 for
    the deer the following week in the dakotas.
    
    them elk are sure good eating.

    Thanks all.
    
    re: .98
    
    Ended up cutting it all up and packing back up on to the ridge.  Rented
    a horse for $50.00 to pack out the elk.  Have packed bigger bulls out
    on pack frames only.  
    
    Getting smarter with age.

    That's just great.  I always like to hear from fellow elk hunters.
    
    The last 4 I've got I've been able to get close enoug with a 4wd/winch 
    combination to save myself a lot of work, but back in my younger days
    I've made some of those packs out of the canyons.  They are for younger
    men (I'm 53).  I remember one we let hang for a week before we could
    get some horses and go back down in the canyon to get it.  Meat was
    great, but I don't go down in canyons like that anymore.
    
    
    Ken 

Oct. 25 - Cow Elk
San Juan Mountains near Durango
~350-400 lbs.
100 yard shot uphill - 30-06 - 
	180gr. Nosler Partition Federal Premium
0 yards travelled (head shot)


I'm mostly read-only in here, but always enjoy the stories.  I got my first
elk ever on Tuesday near Durango, CO.  Our party of five camped in the same 
place that the first season hunters were 'stranded'.  The area had been plowed 
and much snow had melted.   We saw hundreds of 2-day old tracks and figured 
there might still be some elk in the area (near the Purgatory ski area).

Opening day, we hunted high - 10,500 -11,200 feet (I had an altimeter and maps)
and we heard very few shots and saw no elk and no fresh sign.  Later that day,
we scouted a much lower area to the south (around 8200 feet) that looked like
deer country to me (scrub oak, sagebrush, aspen, etc.)  We decided to hunt here
even though it was 40 miles from camp, including some 4WD fun.  The next day,
one of the party saw a 5x5 bull early in the morning, couldn't get a clear
shot, and ended up chasing it over to a day-hunting college student who drove 
it past us in his pickup that afternoon  (Grrrrr. ;-)).  
Clearly, this area had elk.  We drove there the next two days, and I saw two 
cows on the 3rd day - someone was shooting at them, and I couldn't
find the one they missed.

On the fourth day, we beat the same timber, and I smelled the elk nearby (which
is really frustrating when you can't see them).  My buddy shot one that he
saw from a ridge (he could see over the cover).  I helped him flag the area, 
and wanted to hike a circle to cut off the elk.  Within a minute or two, I saw
two cows go running in front of me on the trail.  They were bolting for a 
steep ridge, which they had started up.  As they neared the top, I was lined up
for one shot and I felt the scope coming into picture perfectly.  (I'll still
count myself very lucky...).  I took the shot, and the elk dropped like a rock, 
and indeed looked like one.  I couldn't tell it was an elk until I was much 
closer.  I was pretty psyched.  The other guy and I gutted them both, cut them
in half, and dragged the halfs to the logging trail that bisected the ridge.
From there, we hiked out to get the pack frames and the 3 other guys.  We 
returned, quartered the elk, and in 2 hours with 5 people, got the elk to the
vehicles.  Moving several hundred pounds of elk is no small deal.  I skinned 
the quarters the next day, and put the quarters in the remaining snow to keep
them cool.  All week, it was 65 and sunny in the day, and 30 and clear at
night.  Great weather.

From this small ridge, we knew of 12 elk that were taken out.  The deer were
driven down to the town, and the elk were in deer country.  What I learned was
this:

- If there are no shots fired, and no sign, don't be afraid to hunt elsewhere

- The more days that pass, the fewer elk there are and hunters pushing them, 
	so get cracking early for your best chance.

- Don't hike into the woods too early and push them all out ahead of you.

- Elk are much faster and less casual than deer - be really ready to shoot with
	just seconds of notice. 

- Taking a stand (not moving) may be just as successful as hiking, as other
	hunters will push the game back to you.

- Elk don't always leave an area when the shooting starts - these were here
	for 5 days until they were virtually all shot.

- Elk are clearly not always in the 'tough-to-hunt-black-timber'

- Beware of mountain bikers crashing through the woods w/o blaze orange and
	totally unaware of hunting season.  A mountain bike can sound like an
	elk coming through.  Only in Colorado!




steve (who will be joining the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation now!)

         type: Cow Elk
         weight: ~400# field dressed
         where : Buffalo Peaks, Colorado
         when: Saturday Oct. 22, 1994 about 12 noon
         distance: 70 yards
         shot: head
         travelled: no where
         rifle: Ruger M77, 300 Win Mag loaded with 200 gr Barnes X


I was hunting with my son, Matt, in an area where my partner shot a cow last
year.  We had stalked the timber and meadows and took a break at every clearing.
We were resting under a large pine tree having a snack and I was resting my
eyes.  Not much after we got there Matt tapped me on the shoulder and pointed
out the elk.  She had ran up to the edge of the meadow we were setting on
and stopped.  She saw us and then looked ahead.  I shot her just under her ear.
Matt was really pumped and got there before me.  This was the first big game
animal he had seen shot.  He helped me clean it out.  A man and his wife who
were hunting and heard the shot came by to see if we needed any help.  The
elk had past them with a limp.  The lady had a bull tag.  I never saw the elk
take a step so I didn't know if it had a limp.  Yesterday while cutting it up
I found a 30 caliber boattail just under the skin in her hip.  Hard to say
how long it had been there, but alot of the tissue inside that leg was infected.

The next day while trying to stalk deer behind our camp, I came into a lot of
elk.  They had been on this ridge since first season and no one had found them.
Walked up on several and did not disturb them.  Walked up on a 6X6 bull who was
courting a cow.  I watched him for about 20 minutes at about 30 yards.  The
cow was a little alarmed, but he walked almost a full circle around me.  I knew
we still had a cow and bull tag in camp, and wanted the guys to have a chance
at them the next day.  Jerry told that story.  He stayed with it and got his
bull.  Congrads to Jerry Henson.

Ronnie Smith who used to work at CXO2 shot a 2X4 bull and a doe.  Ernie Velez
who works with me shot a doe.  My partner, Ken, and I tagged teamed on a spike
buck and he got a doe.  We saw LOTS of bull elk, several large ones.  Saw lots
of bear tracks and sign.  Got to spend a week in the woods with my son and
teach him a few things.  He will be hunting deer next year with me.

    
    	Nice job fellas!
    
    Clay

    
    Type:  Bull (spike)
    Place:  Blue Mts. (Or)
    Date:  11-9
    Shot:  heart about 50 yds uphill.  Dropped like a rock.
    
    After 5 days at elk camp we were all pretty tired.  The party had
    thinned out to two people and one (me) was sick as a dog.  It had been
    snowing all week and most days just walking around wore you out.  We
    had seen elk, but no horns.  2 pm on the 11th I drove Tim out to this
    place for an evening hunt.  I said I didn't want to go, but he said you
    could puke out on the ridge as easy as camp.  So, using that as logic
    we headed out.  Just at last light Tim spots a cow and bull coming
    across the face of the steepest hillside you have ever seen.  He drops
    the bull.  (I'm doing this for him as he doesn't note and this is his
    first elk.)  He starts yelling for me to come up and help him gut it
    out.  My response, as all good friends would, "It's yours, you gut it,
    I'm not walking up that hill."
    
    He got it done in the dark and walked up to a road where I was able to
    maneuver the rig.  We had to leave it out overnight on that hillside,
    but he did bring the liver out.  Next morning with the rig parked in a
    precarious position (nose down, tail up) we ran the winch cable as far
    as we could down the side of the mountain.  Then with a 250' rope tied
    to the end of the cable he rappelled (sp) his way down to the elk. 
    Using a combination of the rope and winch cable - it took 5 passes
    with the winch - we finally got the elk (and Tim) up to the rig.  
    
    Next year it's level land hunting, but we've scored a bull 4 out of the
    last 5 years from my cabin.  I should charge.
    
    
    Ken