Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    I think these are all good comments/opinions but one fact does remain,
    none of us can comment on what we would do until this happens to us. 
    Also, until you've had a deer run after making a good shot, then you
    cant judge anothers shot placement.  I've shot a deer with my old 30.06
    and knocked him down.  He got up an ran 175 yards. There was NO blood
    trail to track.  I did find the deer after making half circles in the
    direction he ran. When field dressing I found that the bullet took out
    his heart and a lung.  We have to realize that these are wild animals
    and their will to survive is much greater than we can imagine.
    
    
    rat hole rat hole rat hole.
    
    I've said enough.  Lets get back to the topic. Unsuccessful Notes.
    
    
    
    Earl

it's water over the dam... so i'm not gonna beat a dead horse here...  Suffice it
to say that I won't leave the woods in the future until i've exhausted all
possibilities.  Yes I did think at the time that the 8 pointer the kid shot may
have been the one I shot, but I did also tell him I would be back to look later
and explained why I had to leave.  Again, I'll agree this was a big mistake.  I'm
human and make my share of mistakes, it's not something i'm above doing.  After 
offering to help the kid dress it out and drag it to the road with him, I would 
have thought he would have been more of a sportsman himself.  I guess I am naive.

Do I believe all hunters on public land are dopes...  not hardly, I know quite a 
few guys that I have the utmost respect for.  Besides, i'm out there hunting 
with everyone else, and I like to think i'm not some yahoo.

Also, i'm not the type to unload on running deer, shoot thru brush etc... Nor 
did I shoot at the deers ass... I consider a broadside CLEAR shot at 80 yards 
using a scoped shotgun to be a very makeable shot.  If you do not than that's
your choice.

Good luck to everyone during the remainder of the season.  Fra

    Fra, your text is going past the margin.  Are you using DecWindows?
    
    Mark.

    Everyone needs to lighten up a bit, or this notesfile will probably 
    dissappear one day.  Oh well, either sex season is 11 days away, and I
    will be in a stand with my new camcorder, and 7mm mag, looking for the
    doe meat.  
    
    Talked to my taxidermist last night, and my 14 point non typical will
    be ready this next week.  Merry Christmas.  My 9 pointer is the biggest
    rack he has had this year.
    
    Hey Fra, I sent you and Wess pictures of the 9 pointer in your
    Christmas cards.  Happy holidays everyone.
    
    Just remember, the fight is not with ourselves, it is with the
    government.  We have found the enemy, and it is us!
    
    Bob
    

    
    Seems like a good place to put this (if there is a better note, feel
    free to move it)
    
    Recently in the success note, there was a note about someone being mad
    at another hunter for pissing in a scrape. I did this this year and
    it worked. Let me explain, I recalled seeing a hunting show that talked
    about scents (I believe it was one of the infamous Fred Trost shows
    that got him sued), anyway, what he basically said, from what I could
    recall, was that the active ingrediant in piss is basically ammonia and
    this is the smell that stays around for awhile.  Well on the first day
    of this season, i went up an OLD (40-50 years) logging road, it is 
    nothing more than a hard to follow trail now. Over about 1/2 mile,
    there were 10 scrapes on it. I set up to watch over an area of this 
    for most of that afternoon and the next day. No scrape activity. On
    the 3rd day I hunted (4th day of season), on the way out, the scrapes
    still showed no sign of activity, I had to go, so I pissed in one
    of the scrapes. Well I went back a week later, and the scrape line
    was active again, the scrape that I pissed in had been beat to hell, he
    had dug it out clear, beat the crap out of the sapling etc. this boy 
    was sure mad that someone else was around.
    
    The theory the show put out was that the only smell that remains after
    any time is the ammonia, the rest evaporates quickly.
    
    Another reason I pissed in the scrape was that we were dragging out
    a buck at the time, who was shot about 200 yards from the scrape line
    and we figured it was his scrapes, so what the heck, I had to go.
    
    So, basically I am saying that it may not be all bad to piss in them. 
    I would say if you think they are visiting every day, the probably not
    a good idea, but in NH there isn't the deer count that there are other
    places and they don't visit the scrape lines daily.
    
    --Bob
    

    
    Bob that was Fed Trost, and he poured a quart of his own urine
    on the ground and had not one but two nice bucks smelling where
    he put it. Like you said it's the ammonia smell that brings em in.
    If I remember correctly he even used a bottle of plain
    ammonia(nonscented) and brought deer in with that. Bottom line is 
    that I don't go out of my way if I got to go but I also dont go
    in my stand either.
    
    Walt

	The point is you can't take a leak in a scape and except
something to come check it that day. Has anyone tried the following,
a guide from PA. told me this. Wearing your gloves take a stick, and
make a scrape with the stick. He said to make the scrape about 2" deep.
He says that the earth scent of a fresh scape will attract deer.

Ron

    Guys,
    
    Instead of you taking a leak in the scrape have you ever tried
    something like a Tinks Drip-u-lator filled with something that you
    can actually hunt over that day?  About 4 years ago I know of several
    nice bucks killed off of the same scrape using a drip-u-lator.  If my
    memory serves me correctly Bob-the-Knob Harris took his 14point using
    one of these.  I myself will never take a leak on a scrape I am hunting
    or even in the immediate area I am hunting in, of course everyone has
    their opini.
    
    Just my .02c worth
    Wess

    Wess,
    
    I harvested the 14 pointer, and the 9 pointer using the Tinks Dispenser
    over a scrape.  I heartily believe in this product, and endorse it to
    my friends and fellow hunters.
    
    Bob
    

     Fra and I have had some off-line discussions regarding some of
    our contributions in the unsuccessful note. In a mail message to me,
    Fra has filled in those informational holes which led me to believe
    that 1324.21 portrayed some lack of good judgement. As I am now
    privvy to the complete story, and am willing to take him at his
    word as a man of honor, I offer this apology for calling him on
    something it turns out he did not do.
     And since our conversations were informational in other ways, I'm
    certain that fra will understand why I called him on it.
    
    Bob 

    This is a perfect place for me to put this note.  It has been brought
    to my attention, that some of you might find some of my notes "critical
    of others".
    
    Debate and disagreement sparks conversation and learning new things. 
    So, if I create a note, or reply to one, it is my own opinion, it is
    my constitutional right of Freedom of Speech, (unless Bill Clinton
    takes this one away from me), for me to speak my mind.  IF you agree
    that's fine, if you don't, to damn bad.  
    
    If everyone thought the same thing, and agree to everything, this would
    be one boring ass world.  Therefore, you know who you are, kiss my
    brass!
    
    Bob Harris
    Successful buck hunter
    member NRA
    member WLFA
    

    Mr. Harris (successfull buck hunter, member NRA, member WLFA)
    
     What does WLFA stand for?
    
    Just curious...
    
    Bob

    Wildlife Legislative Fund of America.  They support hunting, fishing,
    and trapping.
    
    Bob
    

    Bob,
    
    I thought WLFA stood for 
    
    "Weird Looking Fat Asshole".
    
    Just kidding bud, I got the pictures of your deer.  My wife had to
    finally take them away from me because it was all I was talking about
    all weekend.  Nice tine length on the 9 pointer!  You should be really
    proud of both deer, I know you are, and you should be.
    
    Wess

    Bob M.
    
    I'm just glad Harris has a good sense of humor!  He's three times my
    size.  At least as far as height goes!
    
    Go ahead Harris put something in about my wife...I can take it.
    
    Wess

    I know you are just dying for my response.  I'm done with your wife! 
    She has served her purpose, so I will not say anything about her,
    except that she's a thief.  Yeh, she takes my breath away.  I didn't
    know your wife was so religious.  She kept moaning,"Oh God, Oh God,
    Oh God  YES!  YES!  YES!"
    
    BAck to the black hole.  Hmmm!  Is there a connect?  Wesley, the price
    of my bow just went up for you friend.  So Wess, let's hear a little
    bit more detail about your hunting earlier this year.  You know, the
    day you pulled your bow back TWICE!  Hmm.  
    
    Enough trashing Wess.  I have seen his picture.  God does have a sense
    of humor.  Were you in the movie "Deliverance"?  Or was that just your
    papa and  mama?  Oh, your cousin.  Wait, I thought that was your wife.
    Oh, their one in the same.
    
    You Kentucky back country, big forehead, redneck, somabitch!
    
    Laughing hysterically,
    
    Bob
    

    Harris,
    
    I think I love you.
    
    
    Wess

    re. redneck
    
    If Santa is in the living room and you are on the roof trying to fill
    your tag, there's a good chance you're a redneck.
    
    Ken

    Guess what Earl is going to be doing Christmas Eve?  Strategically 
    placing his tree stand to view his roof.  He will be in it with a six
    pack of beer, and his rifle. Better shoot that buck now, while you have
    your chance!
    
    Bob
    

 Happy Holidays back at ya!!

BTW, are the pictures of those 2 boney racked deer (fooo hooo) for my
personal collection???  I'm not too sure if they rate to be put in 
next to my VT monsters ;^)

If they are, I look forward to adding them to my album.... if not,
i'll understand... ;^(

Fra

    Fra, keep them for yourself.  It's dasher and dancer.  I pick up my
    14 pointer from mr. taxidermy on Friday morning.
    
    
    Merry Christmas.
    
    Bob
    

    Everyone needs to look at Firearms note 5727.85.  I was going to move
    it to the black hole for everyone to read, and I don't know how to do
    it.  
    
    IF YOU HAVEN'T CONTACTED YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN YET, NOW IS THE
    TIME TO DO IT.  That's right, I was shouting.  Your second ammendment
    rights are slipping away from you, and if you just talk about it, and 
    take no action, WE WILL LOSE!
    
    Do this now.  They convene on January 25th, AND YOU BETTER SPEAK UP!
    This is more than a "hunting note".  This has to do with your right
    to arm bears, and I mean bear arms!
    
    Let's have a success note of a different type.
    
    Merry Christmas again.
    
    Bob "Who is massively stocking up on ammunition and firearms!" Harris
    

    
    
                  MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
    
    Call your CONGRESS CRITTERS...AND YOUR LOCAL SHITATERS( elected
    liars) or Senators...
    
                       HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!
    
    
    May powder stay, and your Freezers full...
    
    
    Jeff

    A personal answer for me only:
    
    1991's opening day culmanated a 15 year long effort with a bow to kill
    a deer.  I had taken some with firearms, but it was very different. 
    Tht long distance kill was like shooting a paper target and the dead
    animal, when you got up to it, was lessened.  A sense of
    accomplishment....sure but nothing special.  I gave hunting for a very
    long time (12 years) probably because of the lack of ....fulfillment?
    
    The bow shot followed three months of scouting in the woods and getting
    back in touch with the woodscraft I had learned as a kid.  It also
    followed 20 min of getting very close to my quarry.  Less than forty
    feet at the end.  The draw and shoot was done with the quarry
    completely unaware until a moment before the release, when some sixth
    sense made the doe look right at me.  The arrow hit exactly right and
    the deer ran only 50yds and died within two minutes.
    
    When I first walked up the deer, I was filled with remorse at the
    thought of an arrow going through her vitals and what that must have
    felt like.  I didn't duck the the feeling.  I took it as part of the
    obligation if you choose to hunt.  In sort of pentence, I dressed and
    carried that doe to my car instead of driving the car to the deer.  The
    remorse feeling gradually gave way the realization that I had finally
    acheived the skill level to do what comes natural to my species.  The
    remorse gave way to this and a sense of pride at one arrow-one deer.
    
    1992 made it two arrows-two deer.  I duplicated exactly the first year.
    and learned something more.  I need to move on to more difficult
    hunting than taking young does.  In 1993, that's all I say and passed
    on perhaps a half dozen of the same opportunities.  I am scoreless in
    1993 or maybe the opposite is true, one arrow-one deer still holds.  
    
    If you really want the game for food, if you really want it to
    challenge you and your skills, if you want to really know what the
    wilderness is all about and how to fit in, hunting is the most
    rewarding, personal, one on one, thing you can do.
    
    There is no such scale for things like that.  My 5 could be your 30.
    
    Regards,
    

    Mr. Savage,
    	Just like the others, I feel I can't rate my feelings with numbers.
    It's hard to put my feelings into words right after a successful hunt.
    Of course I feel remorse and saddness, but at the same time proud. I
    think the Whitetailed Deer is the most beautiful animal God has put on
    this Earth. To see a deer suffering from starvation, collision with a
    car, disease or anything like that makes me even sadder and sicker. All
    these ways of suffering are linked to high concentrations and
    overpopulation. Hunting is best way to control the deer population, in
    my opinion. Plus, it gives me the time I love so much to be in the
    outdoors and help my family with a winters supply of meat. Like I said, 
    I always feel sad, but these reasons help a lot. I will always feel
    sad because of taking the life of an animal I never run out of respect
    for, and I always will. If ever the time comes that I don't feel real
    sad, I will quit huinting. But that time will never come. Thanks for
    listening to our side. Hope I helped.
    
    						Butch

    Ok.  Did everyone have a nice holiday?  Did everyone get the
    opportunity to get into the woods?
    
    I did.  The only deer I saw were the two doe my friend shot.  I helped
    him drag them out.  I went hunting about three times last week.  Saw
    nothing from the stand.  It sure was nice and quiet on the stand.  I
    love sitting in the stand on a cool morning, with the birds of the
    woods just going at it.  I was covered up with a flock of red headed
    wood peckers.  
    
    Went trout fishing on Thursday.  Caught six trout in 1.5 hours.  Let
    them all go.  Played a little golf.  Now, instead of gazing at the
    woodland surroundings, and listening for deer, I am staring at this
    box with a screen, and listening to my phone ring. 
    
    Welcome back to reality.
    
    Bob
    

    	Had a great holiday, thanks. Took my wife paatridge hunting and
    shot my first double, with a witness even. I think they were the 
    slowest paatridge in the world.  Ice fishing time. Do much of that down
    there, Bob?
    
    				Butch

          <<< Note 1328.31 by JUPITR::BUTCH "No Shortcut Too Short" >>>
                            -< birds, not deer... >-

>    	Had a great holiday, thanks. Took my wife paatridge hunting and
>    shot my first double, with a witness even. I think they were the 
>    slowest paatridge in the world.  Ice fishing time. Do much of that down
>    there, Bob?
    
    				Butch


	The only ice fishing Bob does down here is with his cousin Jack
	Daniels ;-)

	Red

    Ice fishing.  Well, my worm had ice on it the other day.  Mainly
    though, I ice fish with the Crown Royal, not the Jack.  Now it is time
    to build that trophy wall in the basement for my deerheads, and all the 
    articles and pictures I got this year.  New concept for the hunting
    wall:  Below each deer head will be a 11" X14" framed print of me
    posing with the above head in the field.  I need a 6-8 lb brown trout
    to put on the wall to.  That is what I am working on now.
    
    Bob
    

    Guys,
    
    I went out Dec 31 for a little bow hunting/video action.  We had 2
    inches of fresh snow on the ground so I slipped my xxl white sweatsuit
    over my camo, my buddy did the same.  I took a stand where I scored on
    opening day for about 1 hour and never saw anything.  There weren't any
    tracks, not even a squirrel.  My friend who was running the camera
    motioned my to get down.  His feet were freezing.  I moved over the
    hill to another strip of woods where we started still hunting.  As I
    rounded a strip of cedar trees I noticed a brown blob about 25 yards
    away, with a rack!  Since we were only allowed to shoot does, we kept
    slipping closer.  It appeared the buck was asleep with his head lying
    on his side.  After wispering back and forth he heard us and took off,
    only to stop about 40 yards, confused he started back toward us.  He
    finally took off, leaving us smiling until next year.
    
    We went over the hill and I pulled out a turkey diaphram.  My friend 
    had his .308 and wanted to nock a coyote off.  I sat down, putting him
    on a gas line(could see for 200 yards).  I started squealing the
    diaphram when I saw my friend jump to the ground and try to get a rest.
    I kept waiting for the shot, but it never came.  After about 5 minutes
    he walked over to me and said that 6 coyotes ran across the gasline
    with last one stopping for a few seconds.  I told him to go back and
    wait, while I moved up the hill about 75 yards and started calling
    again.  About a minute later he dives to the ground again and starts
    fumbling with his safety.  I wait for the shot, nothing.  He said that
    one of the coyotes went back across the gasline but he couldn't find
    the safety.  Did I ever ride him hard!
    
    Was supposed to go duck hunting Jan 1, but my son and my wife got the
    flu and were very sick.  About  11:30am on the 1st my friend called and
    told me what I missed.  He said he had the boat hooked up and was
    headed down one of the big hills to the Ohio river when he lost
    control(ice) and rolled his truck/boat 2 times slamming his truck into
    a tree and hanging upside down over a creek.  He said every window in
    his truck was broken out with extensive damage to the passenger side.
    His boat and truck are totolled.  He said if he hadn't hooked the
    safety chain on his boat to the truck he would probably be dead(went in
    the creek upside down under water).  I dropped down on my knees and
    said a thankyou to the big guy for me not being there and him not being
    hurt too badly.
    
    Be careful and good luck
    Wess
    

    Aren't you glad you had the flu?  Happy new year, eh Wess?  I am going
    down to south Georgia this weekend to pick up my deer meat, video tape
    deer, and maybe pop a doe if I have the chance.  Maybe I will take the
    bow instead of the rifle, who knows.  Maybe I'll bring both.
    
    Bob
    

    Heard on the radio yesterday, that a guy in Louisiana shot a 29 point
    non typical.  It scored 272 3/8.  13" around the bases, 11" eye guards
    and I think the inside spread was about27".  I put the stats on Red's
    board, so Red, if any of these numbers are wrong, please correct me.
    
    Bob
    

 Now's our chance!

 Make the phione ring off the hook!!! Please pass this along and lets get
the word out!

*******************************************************************************

Article 92057 of talk.politics.guns:
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!leafusa!nick
From: nick@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Nick Page)
Subject: White House Gun Control Survey
Message-ID: <CJ9JFK.G59@HQ.Ileaf.COM>
Sender: usenet@HQ.Ileaf.COM
Nntp-Posting-Host: fran
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 14:11:43 GMT
Lines: 51

The White House has a call-in line with a very brief survey on our
current economic conditions and on the issue of GUN CONTROL.  The
number to call is (202) 456-1111, then press (1) and (1) again.
The first two questions are:

        1) How would you describe the economic conditions in the
           country today? 

        Press the number which best describes your answer:

        1 - very good
        2 - good
        3 - poor
        4 - very poor
        9 - to repeat question

        2) During the next 12 months, do you think economic
           conditions in this country will get get better,
           become worse, or stay the same?

        Press the number which best describes your answer:

	1 - better
        2 - worse 
        3 - same 
        9 - to repeat question

Now for the questions which really count :-)

        3) Think about crime and guns for a moment.
           Would you favor or oppose a ban on the sale of all
           semi-automatic weapons except those that are issued
           to law enforcement officers?

        Press the number which best describes your answer:

        1 - favor 	
        2 - oppose 
        3 - unsure 
        9 - to repeat question

	4) In general do you think gun control laws do or do
           not reduce violent crime?

        Press the number which best describes your answer:

        1 - do 
        2 - do not 
        9 - to repeat question

Let's all inform Clinton and his gun control advocates how we feel!

    I just did.  Everyone else better do it to.
    
    Looks like hunting season is over with.  I was going to go this weekend
    for the final hunt, and have to get the house ready for sale.
    
    So it has been an excellent season, and am looking forward to next
    season.  I don't think I will be able to fish, or play golf for awhile.
    Have to sell our house, buy a new one, and then get it all straightened
    out.  Now let's see, which wall will have my deer heads on it?
    
    Bob
    

    
    Carefull Bob, with the timing of the new hunting partner you mentioned
    in another note. If you don't plan it right the little guy will arrive
    just in time for deer season, then you will to tired to stay awake
    on stand!!
    
    --Bob
    

    We plan on getting the job done around August, if even this year.  That
    would leave a due date of April-May.  I am to slick.  However, since we
    are now looking for a new house, this baby thing is put off on the back
    burner for awhile.
    
    Bob
    

RE: <<< Note 1334.0 by TLE::SAVAGE >>>
    
   . On a scale ranging from +5 (exhilarating fun), to zero (complete
   . indifference), to -5 (profound remorse), how do hunters regard the
   . moment when they hit the target and the animal goes down?
   
 Strictly from my perspective I can't actually measure this feeling with a 
number scale.

 Again, strictly from my perspective, I get no exhilarating fun type feeling 
neither do I profound remorse. What I do get is a pang of some type of 
feeling that is extremely hard to express at ending the life of another living 
thing and at the same time a feeling of greatfulness to the Almighty for 
providing me with the bounty He has placed here for us to partake of.

   . Do hunters manage to distance themselves emotionally from the death?
   . How?

 I do. Yes. By saying a short prayer; 

 "Lord I thank you for this bounty. Please bless this creature and bless it 
to our use as my family and I partake of it in your name. Please take the soul 
of this, your magnificent creation, to wherever the souls of Deer may go so it 
may rest in etrnal peace."

 And additionally by knowing the harvest will be put to good use thereafter.

   . In what way do hunters identify with the game they kill?

 As a worthy and admirable quarry that is due great respect. 

    . Can hunters afford feelings of sadness and loss when they succeed?

 Yes. If they don't they have no concience and should not be hunting.
    
    . Do recreational hunters have a sense of duty?  To whom/what?

 I'd say most do. All that I have ever known do. I wouldn't hunt with anyone 
that didn't!

 The duty all hunters have is to know and have have respect for the law, the 
land owners rights, but most of all to have respect for and the knowledge of 
the game being hunted and the skill to harvest that game cleanly and quickly 
with as little suffering as possible to the game being harvested.

            
   . I imagine there are as many answers to these questions as there are
   . hunters. It is NOT my place to judge any replies as right or wrong. 
   . And of course you are not obliged to reply at all.


 I appreciate the opportunity to reply and I appreciate your attitude 
concerning being non-judgemental.

 This is the kind of attitude that fosters understanding and cooperation 
instead of misunderstanding and confrontation. I congratulate you and you've 
earned at least my respect as being someone who can ask a very hard to answer 
series of questions with what appears to be no ulterior motive.

 We need more of it. *Lots* more of it. 

    Thanks Corky,
    
    Your reply here not only came from your hart but you said what I feel
    in mine as well.....God bless Ya and God bless all the creatures on
    this earth that man has ( mostly ) lived with and lived from.
    
    
    Sorry if this sound blubbey but Corky's words struck me deeply
    
    Gerry  (P.S Corky, didn't forget ya, I'll be comming up soon for the Op
             rod)

    Anybody got any hunting season coming up?  This file has gone
    dead, as usual.  Any good hunting stories, tips, jokes, etc.  
    
    Geez, what the hell am I going to do until bow season now.  My golf
    game sucks, the fish aren't biting, and the wife is nagging.
    My bow is still for sale.  I will buy a long bow soon, and start
    shooting it.  
    
    Bob
    

    
    	Well if it weren't for this terrible cold weather and snowfall
    we'd still be bird hunting at a shooting preserve someplace. The
    season doesn't end til March 31st on the preserves so as long as the
    funds hold out, we continue to hunt.
    
    	The season is never over when you own a gun dog. Even though we
    can't "hunt" right now, we're starting to work on Forced Train 
    Retrieve. All the basics can be reinforced during the Winter months.
    The field trials and Hunt Tests will be starting up in February in
    the Deleware / NJ areas. Its a bit of a drive from Mass but if the
    itch is real strong, we might head out. In March, the field events 
    kick off in Southern New England, so its not that much of a wait.
    
    	And as an aside, my 13 year old daughter is doing an EXCELLENT
    job in the Show Ring with my GUNDOG !!!! Earned two points towards 
    his AKC conformance championship title earlier in January. Its so
    satisfying to see the work you put into an animal come to blossom.
    And its nice to have the family involved with the dog so he is not
    just Dad's hunting dog.
    
    dave

    So basically, it's gone to the dogs.  sounds great.  Soon as I get
    the new bow, I'm going to start playing with it.  I am focusing my
    spare time and funds on the NRA right now.  Bought a new western style
    revolver.  Just waiting on the arrival of it.  A remington 1875 outlaw
    in .45 lc.  7.5 inch barrel.  I believe that I will be able to hunt
    with it.  Also, am starting to watch some videos here and there.
    The move this spring should eat up some time.  My house is for sale.
    Once we get into the new house, and settled in, it will be time for
    hunting shows, and shooting the bow again.  And then, here we go again.
    My nine pointer should be ready by the end of February.  It is still
    a great pleasure to look at my 15 pointer everynight.
    
    take care.
    bob
    

    Bob,
    
    I went Goose hunting for the first time last Friday morning.  Talk
    about a good time!  I hunted out of a pit with a fellow Dec remote
    engineer in Ballard County Ky, right next to the refuge.  The geese
    were flying about 100-150yards high at first but after the morning
    progressed several decided to work our decoys.  Chris was mouth calling
    them and waving/flapping a black board to look like one flapping their
    wings.  There were 4 of us in the pit and we all limited out by noon.
    I think the closest shot was about 40 yards with one of the guys flat
    ass rolling one at about 75-80 yards!  They were shooting the 3 1/2 f's
    and t's.  I was shooting 3" bb's, I felt under gunned after he made
    that long shot.  
    
    We all opened up on one goose that was probably 60 yards high, killing
    him deader than last wednesday.  After he hit the ground we noticed a
    large bird coming in circling..it was a young bald eagle.  He had a
    wingspan of prob 4-5ft.
    
    All in all it was a good time, I will do it again next year if I get
    the chance.
    
    Wess

    Sounds like fun, Wess.  I'll be heading down to Florida next week for
    a little business and golf, so could you please take care of Diana for
    me while I am out of town?
    
    Bob
    

    Bob,
    
    I will do my best.  Since note 1341 is out, that is all I can say. 
    Although I am dialing in from your house as we speak!
    
    Wess

    My nine pointer made the February edition of Georgia outdoor news.
    Wess, I'll send you a copy to go along with the December edition of
    my 15 point non typical.
    
    Both bucks will get officially dry scored in August, at the Buckarama.
    Nine pointer should be back from mr. taxidermy by the end of the month.
    
    Bob
    

    Hairless,
    
    I heard they put that 9 pointer in as an example of what to be happy
    with if all you have ever shot were does. 
    
    I liked that little Georgia mazazine, as a matter of fact I dug it out
    of my "outdoor drawer" last night and read it again.  There was an
    article towards the front that a reader had sent in that went something
    like this:
    
    John Doe recently picked up a copy of GON at his local grocery store
    and when arriving home noticed a flyer that had been put in by an
    animal rights activist.  It said something like, every animal needs a
    few basic necessities to survive.  Food, shelter and a safe haven. 
    Hunters take the last from them, don't do it.
    
    It then said that John read the flyer, smiled and hit the woods!
    
    Wess

    Another cool day for me today. I get to pick up my 9 pointer from the
    taxidermist.  Unfortunately, my 15 pointer gets moved from the living
    room to the back bedroom (aka hunting room), so the big 9 gets
    dominance of the living room.
    
    I'll be moving to a new house in about 5 weeks, and the 9 pointer will
    go in the living room.  The other heads will go downstairs into the
    finished basement, in the poolroom.
    
    
    Longbow Bob
    

    Longbow Bob, 
    Just keep rubbing it in. They sound like some nice size bucks. 
    I'm just jealous. 
    .
    William 

    Funny thing is, this mount gave the deer a "sneak" look, vs the
    traditional upright turn to the right look.  My wife said that it
    scared her.  She is now used to it.  I look at him every night before
    going to bed, and get pumped for the 94 season.
    
    Bob
    

    Killer harvest!  How long until deer season, Lee?  Thank god I am
    moving in two weeks.  The move is keeping my mind free and clear of
    yearning to go into the woods.  After I settle into the new house, I
    will start doing some scouting, and videotaping.  Look out for them
    snakes.  I killed a baby copperhead at the golf course driving range
    the other day.  That putter was the perfect tool for the job.
    
    Bob
    

    RE -1
    Yo Bob, and how does the putter work for putting with a bent shaft?
    ;-) ;-)
    
    Carl
    
    

    Bob,
    
    The thought of you going off with a golf club made me laugh.  
    
    About 10 years ago I wanted to go frog giggin' and didn't have a gig.
    Guess what I ended up using?  A 3 wood.  My dad hadn't used his clubs
    for years and it really knocked the stuffings out of them.  Of course
    I was covered with muddy pond water, but when you are young who cares.
    
    
    Wess

    WESS,
    
    that should be fore, not four.
    
    Bob
    

    	 	Boy, I'm glad you killed that snake!  Why, he might
    have grown up and produced more snakes!  Next thing you know, we
    would have had a snake emergency!!  What did it do, interfere with
    your drives???
    		Think when I get home tonight, I'm gonna go out in my
    horse barn and look for some mice.  I just feel like killing some-
    thing.........and the worst snake I've seen around hear is the garter
    variety.  What the heck, I'll kill them too.......
    
                   I hate hearing stuff like that.....

    You hate hearing what, that I killed a copperhead?  Sorry.  But I am
    on the other side of the fence.  The only good snake is a dead one. 
    But then we had this discussion last year.  I know I'll probably get
    reamed for this one.  Next time I'll pet the damn thing and bring it
    home to my wife, and say "Honey, here is our new pet, let's feed it".
    
    bob
    

    I kind of agree with .35 on this.  Attitudes such as "The only good
    snake is a dead one." don't do a helluva alot improve our image with
    non-hunters.  This is just the way the antis would like to portray us.
    
    Jeff

    Bingo.
    
    Mark.

    Well, I can see I stand alone on this.  FWIW, hunting had nothing to do
    with killing a snake on a golf course.  Therefore, killing snakes has
    no impact on what non hunters think of hunters.  Everyone is entitle to
    their opinions, and I acknowledge yours.  Still, if I run into another
    venomous snake, it's dead.  Call it what you want to.
    
    snake killer

    
    Bob,
    
    I feel the problem with killing a snake because it exists, is a wildlife 
    conservation issue.  Ugly, poisonous or not, some snakes are becoming an 
    endangered species.  
    
    Gary

    I am neither for or against killing snakes. I mean I have killed
    some and I have not killed others. There is nothing wrong with 
    killing snakes in my opinion. I would probably not have killed the
    snake on the golf course. I supose anytime we kill something
    we should try to evaluate why? I have some ethics that I like
    to impose upon myself and it is good for me to review these ethics
    and see if they need updated.
    
    It is however usually very touchy when I try to impose my ethics
    on my neigbor. My neighbor gets mad and our relationship goes
    down because I came across as holyer than thou....
    
    I value our differances. If bob is evaluating his position on this
    i suppose this good but I respect his position.
    
    I suggest we all look at ourselves a little more closely and we would
    see some place where we all need to make improvments.
    
    Like perhaps taking more game than our family cares to eat.
    
    Or perhaps not utilizing the complete bird because we are in a hurry
    and only removing the breast. ( Its quick and easy) 
    
    These are just examples. 
    
    Let me get out of here before I come across as to Holy because I
    am not.
    
    Bear

    ok, quick question.  You are hunting your deer stand, and you spot a
    coyote.  Now you know that coyotes have been attacking the young deer,
    and killing them.  Do you shoot the coyote, or do you let it be?  You
    know what I would do, question is, what would you do?  
    
    bob "venomous snake and coyote killer" Harris
    

    I would kill the coyote. But then I would also bring him to a
    taxidermist. I don't like coyotes. I have taken a few in my younger
    days. They run in packs up at my camp and do huge damage to the deer
    herd there. I have come across some deer carcasses that coyotes have
    killed. It is not a pretty sight. That's the only reason I need to kill
    every coyote that I see. I have also had the pleasure of disposing of a
    Timber Rattler once, it was either that or bury my dog. I buried the
    snake.
    
    Bret "vermin and varmint killer" MacGregor

    Kill the coyote.  My first reaction was let'em be cause the shot would
    spook any deer in the area, but on second thought the coyote's scent 
    will scare any deer off your stand anyway.  Blast'em.
    
    Clark

    Bob,
    
     If you run out of snakes come see me here in coastal South Carolina we
    have plenty. Take your pick, Diamondback,Timber,Canebrake Rattlers for
    your woods, Copperhead and Cottonmouth for your irons, and last and
    least Pigmy Rattlers and Coral Snakes for your putters.
     Most hunters here wear snake boots and carry a pistol loaded with
    snake shot when our deer season opens on Aug. 12th.
     
     Less than 120 Days till opening day!!!!!!
    
                                                   Darrell

    Darrell, you pig!  Less then 120 days.  I know what you mean.  During
    bow season, which starts the third week of September, I wear snake
    chaps, and carry a side arm.  I could not believe it when January of
    1993 we killed a 5 ft rattler.  January!  I tend to notice that
    southerners will kill snakes before northerners do.  Maybe it's
    enviromental, or because of geography.  We all know reading the
    firearms conference that you northerners have to deal with all those
    stupid gun laws, maybe you also got all those stupid gun control snake
    loving idiots up there to.  I even know people who are not hunters that
    kill snakes.  So basically, snake killing ain't got nuthin to do with
    huntin no how.  I sure as heck would hate to see my neighbor's kid
    playing in the back yard and get bit by a copperhead that I let live. 
    That will never happen though.  I sprinkle sulphur on the ground around
    the garden, cuz snakes will not cross a sulphur line, and you ought to
    see the garden come June.  Got to wear snake chaps to get into it.
    
    Oh well, how many days until bow season?  154.  Thank god I'm moving,
    keep my mind busy on something else.
    
    Later,
    Bob
    

    
    
     Just for anyones safety that comes in contact  with a venomous snake
    please be VERY CAREFULL if you do move it after its dispatched, a
    snakes venom NEVER loose's it potency! I would have to say that the
    best means of disposal is incineration, submersion in water, or burried 
    6 foot under.
       I would hate to see someone or their pet accidently step on an old 
    set of fangs and be exposed to the venom, also you can also have a
    reaction to the venom without being struck, if it rubbs off the snake
    and you have a cut on your finger/or hands.
    
       In my younger day's we used to hunt timber rattlers in PA. for the 
    game commission for the fair display's. it was nerve wrecking but fun
    but also very dangerous. we used old folding wringer type mops and
    cloth taped the sponges for grabbing the snakes. when we were done with 
    them they were soaked with alcohol and hung up away from any kid
    contact.
    
       Snakes are good for the eco system, but unfortunatly there are times 
    when they are just not wanted around a certain area. I dont see any
    problem with them out in the wilds, but around your home where there
    are pets/kids they should be delt with acordingly, wether its moved
    far away/ or dispatched. I wouldnt just kill one I ran across out in
    the woods.
    
        I have seen snake bites and they are the most painfull bite for
    size going and the worste to treat/heal. I know 2 people that have had
    to have fingers amputated because of copperhead bites. The funny part
    of reading theese notes on snakes brings back the memories of a summer 
    day when I was 7 years old,;
    
      I had been up behind the house and turned over a log looking for
    grubs to go fishing with, well this snake took off and there was about
    a half dozen little snakes so ohhhh maaan PETS!!! I gather them all up 
    in a 1 gallon milk jug with the top cut off of it. so its back to the 
    house where I had a dry aquarium set up in my room, well mom caught me
    before I made it to my room, she always had a knack for that
    (especially after my pet chipmunks got loose in the house once) well I
    wanna tell you she about freaked when she looked in the jug, she was
    out the door with it so fast I hadnt even realised it was outa my hands
    I ran outside pleading that I wanted to keep them for just a little
    while, at the same time she was chopping them into little pieces with
    the spade shovel, I started crying and I wanted to know why she was 
    hacking up my little buddies, She looked at me and said those were 
    copperheads! and where ever you got them stay away cause they will make
    you very sick and you will have to go get operated on again!
      Since I had been operated on 3 times by age 6 I knew that meant
    severe pain! I think I was about 13 before I went back to that log.
    
                                                          Lee
    
      P.S. Bob, contact a lab facility  around you they may buy the snake
         for antivenom. 
    

    Bob,
    
    My mother-in-law is an old snake sometimes, I'll lend you a 3 wood, if
    you know what I mean. 
    
    5 days until GOBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBLER CITY1
    
    WESS

    Snakes serve a valuable purpose in the ecosystem.  Hunters and
    non-hunters alike should be concerned with wanton killing of any
    species.  
    
    BTW, I would have let the coyote go.  
    
    Mark.

    I would have shot the coyote...twice!
    
    
    Wess

    If I shot every coyote and snake I came accross out here in the Mojave
    Desert I would have to by reminton to pay for the bullets, and thats if
    I reload all of them...
    
    Our problem is mountain Lions, they eat everything, dogs, cats, sheep,
    deer, coyotes,bobcats,and kids!  The liberal pinko anti hunters here
    have made them cute little critters and now they are not hunted.
    
    As of late we have had more than 100 attacks or harrasments of people
    in just the last year.
    
    I watch my step, and leave the trash cans in until the truck comes. 
    One good thing, we have few stray cats (aka) coyote orderves.
    Joe

    Last night, as I was cutting the back yard for the last time (thank
    god!), I ran up on a brown snake.  It was about a foot long.  I
    identified it as a non poisonous snake, and let it go.  I still hate
    snakes.  I even have nightmares about them, Earl can tell you that!  I 
    let it go.  I figure that was good for me.    Oh well, I would shoot
    the yelp out of the coyote.  I guess it all depends on territory.  Joe
    was talking about mountain lions being a nuisance out west.  Down
    south, farmers, hunters etc shoot coyotes.  They are a real problem
    down here.  If they had liberal season, I would save my ammo for that.
    
    Bob :)
    

    I was watching a special on PBS last night, "The Joy of Snakes", with 
    Dick Flood, a.k.a. Okeefenokee Joe.
    
    I learned alot about snakes last night.  I even taped it.  I learned
    which ones are poisonous, which ones are not, and alot about snake
    behavior.  I don't think I will be so scared about snakes, as I will be
    more cautious of them.  I think that this boils down to lower snake
    kill on my part.  The non poisonous ones will slither away.  The
    poisonous ones, well I haven't figured that out yet.  I identified the
    snake I saw Saturday fishing on the show....Cottonmouth!  That thing
    got within 8 ft of my little boat.  So I got to get the brownstreaks
    out of my boxers now.
    
    Bob
    

    
    As I was rolling out my sleeping bag the other night while camping out, 
    I noticed something near one of the lawn chairs.  There was a colorful 
    patterned snake about 2 feet long, laying there stretched out cooling it's
    self on the concrete pad.
    
    I only had my pen light to shine on it and went to the truck for my big
    lantern.  The snake was shaking it's tail like a rattler would, but
    there wasn't any rattles anyhow.  Anyway, instead of killing it, I decided
    to relocate it with a broom. Sucker had an attitude and it took a while 
    to get it tossed outta there.  You could here it snapping at the broom. I 
    didn't have my pistol with me for back up.
    
    I looked in my Audobahn(sp?) field guide of reptiles next morning and can't
    find a photo that looks exactly like what I saw.  The milk snake and the 
    corn snake patterns are similar, but neither is close enough. Orange pattern
    on top alternating black pattern underneath, black spots on white under 
    chin, head and jaw structure were distinct but not much larger than body. 
    I didn't bother to count number anal plates.  :^)

    I wish I thought to toss the snake in the garbage can for the night so it 
    would have been possible to photograph it in daylight.

    After securing the site to myself, I went to sleep.  ...Eventually.

    Gary

    Living out here in california we dont have the cotton mouth. Thank god,
    but once while out hunting deer, I woke up with a snake in my sleeping
    bag. I didnt dare move so my buds placed some hot stones from the fire
    at the end of the bag and the snake moved down there and I got out of
    the bag in a quick hurry.  It was just a king snake but that didnt make
    me feel any better.  My shorts were clean as any movment might have
    agrivated the snake.
    Sign me
    asleep in the RV.
    Joe I like the comfort or a bed and no snakes Melendez

    Gary,
    	Where are you? Maybe a copperhead? 
    
    				Butch

    
    Butch,
    
    I thought it was a copperhead at first, but the head and body weren't
    as "thick" as I would have expected.  Maybe it was a youngster? (last
    season newborn)
    
    I'm in Southern NH, just over the Massachusetts boarder.  According to 
    the guide book I use, we are living on the Northern edge of their range.
    
    Gary
    

 Sounds like a milk snake. Different subspecies have slightly different
markings; none of the milk snakes we ever caught looked exactly like the 
pictures, either.

    A few back it was mentioned about the snake shaking its tail, and not
    having a rattle.  Some snakes, regardless of being rattlers or not,
    will shake their tail as a defensive manuever, while being coiled up. 
    I think it is more nerves.
    
    With all this snake stuff going on, TV, talking about it etc, last
    night I had a nightmare that a coral snake was in my bedroom.  i woke
    up sweating bullets and gasping for air.  I always have nightmares
    about snakes.  
    
    So  broke out the bleach last night   :)
    
    bob
    

    Guys,
    
    Well it seems some of the anti-hunters around Trenton Ohio are trying
    to get a law passed to make it illegal to hang deer from your tree on
    your own property.  They are supposed to vote on it soon.  
    
    Actually the "new law" will state "any dead animal", some trappers in
    the area offended someone I guess.
    
    What do you think?
    
    Wess
    
    P.S.  Trenton is out in the country a ways!