Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

Don't forget to add the ROCKY MTN HUMANE SOCIETY to your list
JC

    You also have to watch out for small 'ad hoc' groups that form 
    around local or single issues. It's usually the same people,
    they just adopt different names. For example, SMOOSA, the group
    that opposed starting a limited moose hunting season in Maine,
    and CEASE, the group that opposed the 1991 hunt in Quabbin. 
    
    A lot of these groups are really the same people over and over again.
    Rather than argue as representatives of PETA, for example, and risk
    further opposition from those who already know them, they rename 
    themselves with innocent-sounding non-descript organization names.
    *Don't be fooled.* Push hard enough and you'll get them to admit
    their belief in the same old arguments, how animals have rights, and 
    how man has no right to 'use' and 'exploit' them. 
    
    And remember, too, the vast majority of people *don't agree* with
    them, once their extremist claims are out in the open.
    
    Dana

    I have an idea.  How about a list of pro hunting organizations that
    are active in defending the hunting aspect.  Thanks for the list of
    anti hunting organizations.  I got a real kick on a commercial I heard
    on the radion this morning.  It said that "Habitat for Humanity" was
    going to have a pig roast this weekend.  Just think about it.
    
    Bob
    

    I would like to take exception to one organization being on the list..
    
    And that is the National Wildlife Federation.
    
    Most of my experience comes from the State level and attending
    N.H. Wildlife Federation meetings.
    
    The National Organization is made up of these State organizations.
    
    I know that this organization is made up of sportsmen for
    sportsmen and anyone who sincerely was an active outdoorsmen
    would know this...
    
    They support every known form of hunting,fishing,trapping
    They work to keep access to lakes rivers and ponds land and
    support all legal use including among others Snow Mobiling
    atvs. and this lists go on.
    
    For the most part they are aposed to Damns and other harmful
    industrial activities..
    
    Now there is this issue of steel Shot. I admit they were big
    supporters and this is the only issue that I don't completely
    agree with.  I don't agree because I don't beleive the findings.
    
    There is no proof.... I am not sure how they were convinced..
    I remember seeing films at there meetings 10 years ago or so.
    
    I am of the opinion that we should have never given in on this
    position but the masses of sportsmen were deceived.
    
    This is a super organization and Every one should be involved.
    
    I beleive that if every sportsmen belonged to there State
    affiliate and the NRA and if 25% of became active we would
    need to wory about all these anti-hunting organizations.
    
    As a matter of fact the National/State Wildlife Federations
    were organized as a defense against these organizations and
    and go to war on every issue inform us of legislation that
    is being passed in Concord/Washington DC. The lists of wins
    is extreemly long and impressive.
    
    It is Ironic and Pathetic that we would include this organization
    in the this list.
    
    I beleive people are sadly mis-imformed.
    
    ( please excuse all spelling mistakes )
    
    Sincerely,
    Richard Gath
    
     

 Richard-

 NWF was listed as in betweeners, not as anti-hunting supporters. All this
really means is that on one or more issues they failed to support what
was deemed by some group as being the prohunting side of an issue. Don't read
anything more into this than that.

 I noticed that my league of conservation voters checklist basically rates
legislators 100% on whether they supported the "conservation" side of a
particular bill, regardless of whether the bill was a good one or a bad
one. This is misleading, but is useful for those who are categorical in
their leanings and do not consider consequences to be important.

 The Doctah

>>         <<< Note 1130.5 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "No wind flags please!" >>>
>>                         -< no need to feel splashed >-

>>really means is that on one or more issues they failed to support what
>>was deemed by some group as being the prohunting side of an issue. Don't read
>>anything more into this than that.

Doctah,

In my opinion, listing the NWF as it was listed may be more harmful than
you think.  I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about the
NWF, but I had always perceived them as pro-hunting and an ally.  After
seeing their name on the list (even with the explanation), I had my
doubts.  I am in debt to Richard for posting his defense of the NWF
and more clearly explaining the issue.

The point I'm trying to make is that as hunters, we need to be careful
about what we say and even more careful about how we say it.  Just
including the NWF in an article which lists anti-hunting groups may
have caused more damage than you realize (I'm not faulting you personally.
Please don't take it that way).  Some, like myself, may wonder "what
else" they do or don't do.  Others may just scan the article and
make the association (incorrectly) of NWF - anti-hunting, even though
the article did accurately state their position.  It's just one of
those guilt by association things.  We may have impaired the ability
of a supportive organization to help with our cause, even though that
certainly wasn't the intention.

Just food for thought,

Jerry

P.S.  I don't wish to start a rathole or a pi$$ing contest.  I'm just
trying to point that that there often is a difference between perception
and reality, and often it is the perception, however incorrect or false,
that gets the attention.

    
    re:4
    
    Bear,
    
    I should of mentioned that the source of -0 came from the Newspaper
    called "Hawkeye", it's a paper serving sportsman in N.H. and can be
    picked up free at your local gun shop....I got mine at Rileys in
    Hooksett.
    
    Rick
    

    
     It's called the Maine Animal Coalition. The president of this "group"
    had a letter in the op-ed section of the local newspaper yesterday.
    One tactic that they're taking is pounding on the fact that hunters 
    represent a minority of the total population, so why should so much
    time, effort and money be spent to benefit "game" wildlife for hunters
    to enjoy. A totally asinine stance, but their efforts are clearly
    aimed at ostracizing hunters, making it an "us vs. them" situation.
    
     These people are really somthing else !!

    re.8 just write in and remind the folks that the money for game
    management, (along with the time and effort it buys) is _paid 
    for by the hunters_ _not_ the general public. That without game
    wardens, *paid for by the hunters*, the poachers would wipe out
    the animals. We pay not only to manage game animals, but to protect
    _all_ animals. The antis are a lot of mouth, but we put our money
    where our mouths are. They don't.

    re.8
    
    Also if you reply to the general public, a big thing about hunting
    in Maine is the $$$$$ this takes in every year by the out of state
    hunters to benefit the local economy.

    Truly outrageous, Rick! I've supported a couple of those organizations
    in the past but will reevaluate my support based on your info.
    
    Knowing the enemy is good policy. Perhaps it'll mobilize some of us 
    who 'just didn't realize.' 
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    Dennis

    I was reading my June Issue of "Georgia Outdoor news" and they have a
    page devoted to the anti hunting issues surrounding Georgia, and the
    U.S., giving updates, and who needs support.
    
    Get ready for this one.  ACE Hardware is a proud sponsor of the
    Humane society.  I do believe in note.0, the humane society was
    listed.  I never shop at ACE anyway, their prices are to high, but
    now I will never walk in the place.
    
    
    also, in the same issue of GON, they asked Bo Jackson why he got
    his hip replacement.  He said," For three reasons, and base ball isn't
    one of them.
    
    1) to stop the pain I am in
    2) so I can walk better
    3) SO I CAN GO DEER HUNTING IN ABOUT 4 MONTHS
        BO KNOWS HUNTING!
    
    bob
    

    As a hunter I am also a proud supporter of the Humane Society.  So are
    many of my hunting friends.  While I certainly don't agree with all of
    their policies and practices, I do support many of the organizations in
    the base note.
    
    
    Mark.

    
    re .12 and Bo
    
    I saw a hunting show once (I think it was Buckmasters) they were having
    a celebrity sports contest, events were, shooting (rifle and shotgun)
    archery, ATV driving, archery golf (pretty cool, a deer kill zone 
    was the "cup" and you had to work your way around the course.
    
    anyway, among the celebs that I can remember, were, Bo, Wade Boggs
    (won the knife throw), Ron Guidrey, several football players and 
    others who I knew, but can't remember.
    
    They also had a hunt for the participants, 1-shot kills were stressed.
    Bo took the biggest deer, 1 shot at 125 yards.
    
    --Bob
    

    re .3 In the July issue of Outdoor Life I believe they list many
    organizations that are pro-hunting. It may be the June issue. When I
    come in next week I'll correct myself. They list about a dozen orgs.
    that are there to help US.
    							Bret

    Isn't 'Outdoor Life' published by Times-Mirror? 

    Yes Outdoor Life is published by Time Mirror.