Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    It's my father who's the builder. Yes you could change the safety lever
    on a mauser action.
    
    As far as the cost go's I'll ask.
    
    Rick
    

    
    Fra,
    
            The 8mm is the European verison of the 30/06, as is the 7mm to
    the 308. As far as the .280 goes your talking almost the same animal as
    the .270 with a lttle better stats.
    
    
                                                          Guy
    
    
    
    P.S. Good Ole Dad works wonders with Mausers !!!!!!
    

    Why not just have the chamber reamed out to the 8mm-'06 wildcat?
    Plenty of bullets and data available, same rim size, etc. This
    was a popular item after WW2. Cases are easy to form.

    
    Our father just finished rechambering that same caliber for himself.
    The action is all finished, he will soon be ordering the stock,then
    sending out for bluing.
    
    
                                                         Guy
    

    Well, not being real knowledgeable on whats involved in rechambering 
    barrels and actions, I'm not sure what my options are...  I do know
    that the throat is pretty well worn out, and that being the case, it
    seems like a new barrel is inevitable... So, if "you" were going to
    have an 8MM Mauser rebarreled what would you opt for in a caliber?
    There is a catch, $$$  i don't want to spend a whole lot, so if I can
    get something other than 8mm and not have to spend extra $$ to 
    accomodate the new cartridge, then thats the caliber i want...
    
    Does anything need to be done to the bolt face to rechamber it to say a
    280 or a 30-06 or a 25-06?
    
    what am I looking at for costs???  
    
    Is it worth it???
    
    Other work needed:  safety change to facilitate scope mounting, and
    bolt handle replacement for scope use.
    
    Looking forward to hearing some ideas and ball park figures...
    (hopefully i can hook up with Guy and Ricks dad for some ideas)
    
    Mike H. where are you???? ;^)
    
    Fra
    

    Fra:
    
      You might want to try Corky out too. He's done loads of work on my
    M1, and it was all top notch!
    
      Just to give you some of my opinions, FWIW :-) ... IF the throat is
    shot out of the barrel, then rechambering is NOT going to improve the
    throat, nor the accuracy. If you've got a doggy 8mm Mauser barrel, then
    you'll have a doggy 8mm/06 barrel. Only if the "very start" of the
    throat is burned out will rechambering "possibly" help. Also, a gun-
    smith might opt to reeealy chamber out the existing barrel, but there's
    only so far that you can go before you run out of the "thick chamber
    area" of the barrel. Keeping it in it's military appearance could be
    another issue. If it was rechambered enough to shorten the barrel, all
    the existing hardware and fitting of the barrel on the OUTSIDE of the
    gun would have to be modified also.
    
      Also, if memory serves me, the rim diameter of the 7X57, 8mm Mauser,
    308, 30/06, 270, 280, and all cases based upon these rounds are the
    same. Therefore, you don't have to worry about having to have the bolt
    face reamed out... If , as you say the $$$ are a factor, then you might 
    want to stick with a standard Mauser chambering since you may be able
    to get an original barrel in "the cosmoline". These "should" be a bit
    cheaper than an after market barrel, but you never know... Heck, the 7
    X57 (7mm Mauser) is one of the all time classic chamberings!!! I'd
    love to have a 7X57! ....
    
    FWIW...Joe

    8mm Mauser, 7mm mauser, and all the 30-'06 derivatives (including 
    the .308 Win family) use the same rim, so the bolt face shouldn't 
    need alteration.
    
    You say the throat is worn out, but that doesn't mean you need
    a new barrel, *if* you rechamber to 8mm-06, which is a longer
    cartridge. (The reamer will cut the 'worn' section away and
    give you a shiny new throat.)
    
    Any other size will require a new barrel, plus chambering and
    fitting to the gun. (Plus, you'll probably need a new stock
    unless they get the barrel contour exactly the same as the
    original. More $$)
    
    Frankly, unless the long-range capabilitiies of the .277 or
    .248 bullets are very important, you don't gain anything by 
    dropping down from an 8mm bullet. Power levels out to 250
    yards aren't that different. Do you plan to use this gun out 
    west or mostly in New England ? 
    
    Dana

    re.6 & 7 Notes collision! How far is the throat gone? How's
    the barrel other than the throat area? (And since I don't have
    chamber dimensions handy, how far does an 8mm-'06 reamer
    cut from the original Mauser chambering?) 
    
    Fra, methinks you're gonna eat peanut butter sandwiches for a while
    (and end up with a might fine gun ;-) )

    Maybe this doesn't apply anymore since it has been 7 years.
    Gun... 1937 8mm mauser with schwastika (sp?)
    new gun.. 25-06 stayed long action and same bolt face size.
    work done.. bolt handle turned down, new safety, douglas barrel,
    trigger work, all this cost $175.00 I did all the stock work myself
    since this is my hobby anyway. This rifle is a tack-driver out to 300
    yds by the way and (NOT BRAGGING) I have never shot at a deer with it
    and missed OR had to track it after the shot. They stay where hit.
    All-in-all it is my FAVORITE rifle BAR NONE.
    just my $.02
    Harvey
    

RE: <<< Note 1118.0 by KNGBUD::LAFOSSE >>>

 Fra:
    
 Well, I might as well put in my 2 cents worth :-), Besides I need the work.. 
:-)

 All the replies have pretty well covered it as far as rechambering goes.

 Provided the throat isn't gonzo rechambering to 8mm-06 would be the least 
expensive way to go. (I think I even have an 8-06 reamer,will check and let 
you know cause I think I re-chambered a Barrel for Guy and Ricks Dad to 8-06 
(or was it 8mm magnum??) a while ago).

 Anyhow,,, rechambering goes $75.00 if the bolt face and feed rails do not 
need alteration, $125.00 if they do. If you're staying with a basic 30-06 
case rim size the 75.00 figure should cover it.

 A new Douglas barrel installed and chambered would go; for the barrel, 
between $95 and $163.00 depending on contour, caliber and if Stainless of 
Chromemoly. 
Chambering and fitting to action goes an additional $125.00

 A surplus military barrel in 30-06, FN Belgian Manufacture and in NEW Unissued 
condition (contoured just like the original) goes $125.00 installed.
These are *Primo* Barrels and they shoot real well. FN is world renown for 
their fine barrels.

 Low mount safety conversions go 11.95 for the safety and 20.00 installation.

 Modified bolt handle for scope use 45.00.

 Another worthwhile modification you should consider is a decent trigger. A 
Timmney goes 32.35 for the least expensive one.

	Boy, don't you love those replies from Corky... There it all is,
	options, prices, advice... That guy is just too good to be
	true! :-)

	I have to admit being thoroughly educated by Corky's, Joe's,
	Dana's  and the other replies to this note. I had never thought 
	of the fact that the rechambering to 8mm-06 might solve the 
	problem of the eroded throat area! But since the 30-06 (or 8mm-06) 
	cases are .254" longer than the 8mm Mauser (8x57 in civilian 
	disguise) I suppose that must be the case - provided the eroded 
	area is not further into the barrel than that. Live and learn! :-)

	A couple of comments to your other options Fra:

	- if you decide to rebarrel with a Douglas barrel, say,
	be aware that unless you pay $$$ (100-150) to have the barrel
	recontoured, it probably won't match your stock. That will not matter
	functionally, but unless you plan to change the stock sometime
	in the future it may look a bit odd. If you have one of those
	military stocks with a "wooden lid" over the barrel, you might
	get away with it ?? (Doubtful)

	- The Mauser actions were built around cartridges such as
	the 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 6.5 mm Swedish Mauser etc, all
	employing a case somewhat shorter than the 30-06. If you
	do decide to rebarrel for a 30-06 length cartridge of any
	kind (30-06, 280 Rem, 8mm-06) you will have to observe 
	fairly stringent restrictions on over-all cartridge length.
	As Corky once pointed out to me, you should not expect
	to be able to load your bullets out to the normal maximum
	length. It may not have any effect on you, personally I like
	heavy bullets, and consequently need to load them far out to
	achieve the best ballistics. 

	- If you get a pre-chambered barrel try to make sure that the
	free-bore is no longer than what you can take advantage of
	given the limitations on over-all cartridge length as given
	by the magazine box and action length. This obviously is particularly
	important if you go for 30-06, due to the OAL restrictions.
	Btw, don't let anybody talk you into "opening" up the action by 
	grinding away a bit of the loading ramp to accomodate longer 
	cartridges. It may be OK and done many times for e.g. 375 H&H
	length cartridges, but as Frank de Haas points out in his book, 
	you are actually removing metal intended to support one of the 
	locking lugs when in battery.

	- If you get a gunsmith to chamber the barrel for you, you can
	obviously specify the leade you would like. It is also less
	likely to be a problem for one of the Mauser calibers.

	- If it was my gun and I was looking to keep the military stock,
	I would ask Corky whether the FN barrels could be had in one
	of the Mauser calibers? I love the 30-06, but to me the action is 
	built for another family of GREAT cartridges. My first choice
	would be a 6.5x57 (note slightly different shoulder than the
	other Mauser cartridges) that is a GREAT little cartridge, absolutely
	deadly on deer. Second choices would be a 7x57 or a .257 Roberts
	(Improved). Besides, Fra, was it not you who were building that
	.300 H&H on the Korean Mauser action? Or is my memory going with old
	age? So you don't desparately need a 30-06, no?  :-)

	- Corky, do the FN barrels come blued?

	- You'll need the bolt handle reshaped plus the safety
	job, as you know. The Timney triggers will take you to sublime
	for less than 50$ - well worth it if you can afford the cash, 
	now or later.

	Actually if you don't watch out Fra, you might end up with
	a fully customized job - imagine that nice cheap Mauser turned
	into a rebuilt dream for only, say, 1500 - 2000 $. Pure bargain! :-)

	Lots of luck


							- Mike

    Hey Mike:
    
      Did you ever get the "Grey Ghost" through the "overseas red tape" and
    into your possession?!?  
    
      (BTW. the "Grey Ghost" is/was a customized Mark X (?) Mauser
    Action'ed custom rifle built by Corky and sent over to Switzerland :-)
    I had it in my grubby paws for a few minutes... Almost waited till
    Corky turned his back so that I could "walk out with it" ;-) ...just
    kiddin!)
    
      Loved that grey stock with the stainless (?) barrel/action...
    
    
    Joe

RE: .11

 Yes the surplus FN 30-06 barrels are already contoured ala Mauser Military 
and they are blued. The only thing they need is finish chambering and sights 
added (unless of course you're mounting glass).

 Word has it that FN made bunches of them specifically for re-barreling 
captured WWII K98's etc. for re-issue to friendly countries. Norway comes to 
mind first.

	RE: .12

	Joe, rumor has it that the "Grey Ghost" - and my .300
	Win Mag M70 Super Grade - are tied up in LA airport where
	customs seem to have taken a fancy to my guns ... GRRRRRR
	I am hoping the apparent problem with the export license
	gets sorted pronto - but knowing the clowns in Washington
	DC I somehow doubt it. Why do I always get these violent
	fanatasies when I think of bureaucrats? *&^%$#@!

	At one stage I was sure I was going to have them in my sweaty
	little hands by Christmas.... :-( I have to stop now, I must
	go and find a place to cry on my own... :-) Bureaucrats,
	bureaucrats, bureaucrats, bureaucrats .... GRRRRR, Kill, Maim...
	(Ooops sorry about that, just those old Danish habits showing
	up once in a while...:-)

							- Mike

    Mike,
    
    Your right, old age has'nt set in yet, i'm building the 300 on the
    Bauska action... so I would if possible try and go with something in
    the .24 or .25 caliber range... if possible mind you.
    
    I did have the gun looked at by my neighbor, and he assured me the
    barrel/throat was fine, so all it really needs is the handle and safety
    taken care of... for now... ;^)
    
    I've already stoned the whole affair down and am getting it ready to be
    blued... all thats left is a little work to the trigger guard, and
    it'll be ready to polish.
    
    Only other foreseeable problem is scope mounts, need to find a set to
    fit that action, then tap the reciever. Any ideas on brands/model
    numbers/costs...
    
    Thanks for all the inputs so far...
    
    Fra

	re: .-1
    
>>    I did have the gun looked at by my neighbor, and he assured me the
>>    barrel/throat was fine, so all it really needs is the handle and safety
>>    taken care of... for now... ;^)

	Hey, good on you Fra! So you'll start out with 8x57 for now,
	I'm sure you'll like the caliber - the Mauser calibers are
	really great. Once you really get to love the gun, think about
	the trigger conversion - for now you will probably be fine.

>>    Your right, old age has'nt set in yet, i'm building the 300 on the
>>    Bauska action... so I would if possible try and go with something in
>>    the .24 or .25 caliber range... if possible mind you.

	I have been down this line of dreaming as well :-). I figured
	that since the Mauser action fits the Mauser length cartridges
	so perfectly, THE choice in .25 cal has got to be the .257
	Roberts - a classic cartridge for a classic action! :-) If
	you feel something like a 25.06 would offer more oomph (and
	for deer at normal ranges the .257 Roberts would do just fine)
	then consider the .257 Ackley Improved (40 degrees). That will
	buy you around 200 fps and get you within 100 fps of the 25-06,
	all with less powder, shorter barrel and less barrel erosion.
	You can still shoot the .257 Roberts factory loads in the
	improved chamber if need be - only minus: you loose something
	like 100 fps due to less pressure. The 2.57 Imp is known to
	be one of the best improved cartridges - certainly one of the
	most common ones, to the point where every reloading manual 
	(almost) has data for it. Lots of scope for dreaming :-)

>>    Only other foreseeable problem is scope mounts, need to find a set to
>>    fit that action, then tap the reciever. Any ideas on brands/model
>>    numbers/costs...

	One of the problems with the scope mount for the military Mausers
	is the hump on the loading clip attachment on the receiver bridge.
	Obviously the rear base has got to be a fairly short one. I doubt
	(Corky correct me here if I'm wrong :-) that the bases made for the
	FN or any other Mauser-derivates would do. A quick scan on Brownells
	catalog reveals the following possibles: Redfield (means you can 
	use Redfield, Burris or Leupold rings) 20-30$ for bases, 20-30$
	for rings depending on where you shop. Buehler: around 35$ for
	bases and around 45$ for rings. Leupold 1 pc base: 20-30$.
	Strangely, Weaver does not list a military Mauser base, although
	I have seen one mounted once? Obviously there is also the possibility
	of using one of the "gunsmith bases" which require gunsmith
	fitting: Dave Talley makes one for military Mausers adopted
	to Ruger style rings for about 25$ - rings available from 
	Burris, Leupold and Ruger. Lots of possibilities.

	Best of luck - let us know how you progress.


							- Mike

RE: bases

 No problem with the rear scope base. Rather than modify the receiver, I modify
the base. 

RE:                 <<< Note 1118.17 by SALEM::TOWLE_C "Corky" >>>
              -< First rule of thumb = work on the least $ part >-

>> No problem with the rear scope base. Rather than modify the receiver, I modify
>>the base. 

	Corky, do you think it would be necessary to change anything, 
	other than drilling and tapping the receiver? I was assuming not,
	when bases are specified as fitting "military Mauser 98". ??

	I know it is possible to mill off the charge clip slot hump on the
	receiver bridge, but I have always assumed this to be a fairly 
	seldomly executed modification. ?? Do the bases not just fit
	behind the clip slot hump??

							- Mike

    I have had another 8mm Mauser drilled and tapped for scope mounting,
    on another rifle I had upgraded for my uncle years ago, sent the bolt
    to flaig's for a new handle.  My neighbor ordered the parts for the
    safety and updated it.
    
    He had some difficulty with the rear base, and had to mill some of the
    base to fit the hump.  I don't remember if it was necessary because of
    the hump or because we recieved the wrong base and time was drawing
    near to use it...  I think at the time it was more of a quick fix...
    
    I would hope that with all the mod 98 mauser actions out there, that
    there would be a base to fit...  or is this asking too much?? ;^)
    
    I can foresee this thing becoming a .257 roberts in the future... ;^)
    
    thanks for the info
    
    Fra

RE: <<< Note 1118.18 by DECALP::HOHWY "Just another Programmer" >>>
    

>>	I know it is possible to mill off the charge clip slot hump on the
	receiver bridge, but I have always assumed this to be a fairly 
	seldomly executed modification.

 Yes Mike, the base is what is modified. A chamfer or bevel if you will is 
done to the underside front edge of the mounting block so it clears the 
stripper clip charging slot.

 Milling/grinding the charger slot hump off is another method only used as a 
last resort and only if the customer *has to have* the profile like a 
commercial FN made mauser. Even if thats what they "just gotta have" I always 
try to talk them out of it as the original profile is very hard to maintain 
after the milling. Sides, I don't like buying mistakes.. :-) on account of 
all it takes is one slip on the sanding/polishing belt and you've forever 
ruined the receiver.
                          
>> Do the bases not just fit
	behind the clip slot hump??

 When the base manufacturer says, "fits military M98" it means the underside 
of the block is correctly contoured to fit the rounded contour of the 
receiver. The hitch here is the block is not relieved for the charging hump 
therefore you can't get the block mounted far enough forward to clear the 
bolt handle. If all you do is try to shorten the block so it doesn't hang 
over the back of the receiver, you lose the front screw hole so you're out of 
luck there too.

With scads of "military" mausers all over the place and reletively few (in 
comparison) FN commercial Mausers, I never quite understood why the 
manufacturers do not make a block that really does fit a military mauser?!?!?

Nothing else should need to be changed as long as you remember relieve the 
block and to mount it far enough forward so that the bolt handle clears it.

 Sometimes though there is enough variance from receiver to receiver that you 
still need to trim off a rear corner of the block no matter how far forward 
you get it attached so that it does clear the bolt.

    Fra,
    Either I mis-read the note or did not understand. My 1937 mauser has
    WEAVER bases on it. So weaver made them or used to anyway. But you do
    have to bevel the front of the base. A 1/2 inch rat tail file does this
    nicely. Sounds like your rifle will be a lot like mine and I hope you
    like it as much as I do mine altho I opted for 25-06 instead fo 257.
    Harvey