Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    Bob
    
    Now at least you got out, too bad about not getting a shot off and
    bringing one home.
    
    I have often wondered about grunt calls, as with many or anything it
    must be in the technique utilitzed.  I feel somewhat handicapped when
    using a grunt because by tone inflection the meaning the doe or buck
    picks up on could vary.  What we should do is all get together say for
    lunch on the patio and go over our grunt calls.  Taking the lead of the
    person who has managed to bring a deer over to them self.  Then there
    is another possibility, maybe she had a headache and didn't want to be
    bothered.
    
    Leonard
     

    Like I said in my original note, it was the grunt that spooked the
    deer, and not me.  The wind was swirling.  I have come to the
    conclusion that until the rut starts, NO MORE CALLS OR RATTLING!!
    I think the best is to be the SILENT INVISIBLE hunter. Total cammo,
    no sound.
    
    that's it.
    bob
    

    
    SNAKES! did you say snakes!  I hate those things.
    
    Bob,
    
    How many deer can you take a year according to your state law?
    
    Thanks!
    
    Rick
    

    I have called in bucks and does by using a grunt tube.  I was out about
    a month ago scouting for deer, I was walking down a path by a
    cornfield.  I got about 10 yards from the end and I heard a soft grunt
    from the corn about 5 or 6 yards in.  I stopped and mouth grunted
    back(softly).  A 6 point about 140 lbs. came out and nearly turned
    inside-out after seeing me.
    
    Two years ago I was out opening day of bowseason (Oct.1).  I had been
    on stand for about 1 hour and hadn't seen anything.  I took my grunt
    tube gave 2 soft grunts and waited.  It wasn't 3 or 4 minutes when a
    big doe and a spike came walking directly to my tree, looking for
    another deer.  I was going to wait for a larger buck, but my wife was
    expecting at the time, so I shot the spike.  
    
    I have grunted at deer with no success also.  The 1 or 2 soft grunts
    are about the only type that I have had success with.  I read an
    article about grunting they said that the short soft grunt was a "Where
    is everybody" grunt.  I don't know for sure but it has worked for me in
    the past.
    
    Good luck
    Wess

    re.6  in the state of Georgia, we can bag 5 deer this year.  3 have to
    be antlerless.  Last year, it was 3 for firearm, and the other 2 were
    for bow season.  But you could use all your firearm on bow. But not
    your bow on firearm.  This year, with all the deer problems, and herd
    population explosion, they said you could use all 5 tags on firearm if
    you want to.  But regardless, 3 have to be antlersess.
    
    re.7  I will try grunting softly only twice like you do.  It is early
    in the season, so I will see what I get.  How long is each grunt?  Mine
    have been medium, not soft, and have been about 3/4 second long.
    Basically, less than one second.  To loud? To short? To abrupt?  I feel
    very confident in the property we hunt.  Plenty of sign.  A known safe
    haven for deer, etc.
    
    In reference to snakes, it was just a blue racer.  If it was a
    copperhead, cottonmouth, or moccasin, I would have put the bow down,
    and picked up the golf clubs until cold weather.  But until such time,
    the hell with the golf clubs.  I LOVE DEER HUNTING!!!
    
    bob
    

    
    After attending the NRA Super Whitetail Clinic back in August (91),
    a vaild point was brought to everyones attention. When using calls
    to influence deer the best call to use is a "Bleet", due to the fact
    mostly on bucks that "WE" as the hunters do not know what happened in
    the course of the night or even 15 minutes before to a deer. To give an
    example, a nice buck comes into view but is out of range. You use your
    grunt call to get his attention and as soon as he hears it the show is
    over and he leaves. This buck may have had a run in anytime before you
    seeing him with the Dominant buck or another more Aggressive buck in
    the general area and he doesn't want to get his ass kicked again. The
    point they were trying to make was watch the deers "Body English" as it
    approaches and if it leaves. If your hunting an area without a whole
    lot of pressure (mostly during archery) you may have a real good chance
    of that deer showing up in the near future and you will now be a little
    smarter on how to handle the situation.
    
                                                            Guy
    

 I thought the bleet call meant "something's up, let's leave!"

    
    When I see a deer I call with a .444. For some reason they fall down
    instead of leaving, hmmm?
    
    Rick
    

    no problem during firearms season.  I see them, and they fallen and
    can't get up.  Bow season: a little different.  You have to get them
    in close.  Experience is the best teacher.  I will remain silent in the
    woods, and if in a certain period of time I do not see anything, I will
    try my bleat call.  other than that, silence is deadly.
    
    bob
    

    Bob, you might try the bleat call on a doe that's staying out of
    range. The grunt might make her think there's an amorous buck,
    who she'd rather not, umm, deal with ;-)

    Bingo!! my thoughts exactly
    

    grunting at a doe this soon might be a big mistake, as Dana previously
    stated, but a bleat should do the trick nicely.
    
    A couple of years ago during the firearms season in VT, i had a deer
    coming up the hill but outa sight behind some pines, heard it coming
    but couldn't get a good look at it as it was aproaching, caught grey a
    few times, but no look at the headgear.  It was by itself, and I was in
    a treestand in an old overgrown orchard with the handgun waiting for 
    the deer to show itself .  Now i'd read about, but never actually heard 
    them bleat (almost like a lamb baa'ing), when all of a sudden the deer 
    coming up the hill bleats several times...  all hell broke loose, 4 deer 
    come crashing out of the slashings above me heading directly for the deer
    making the noise.  As soon as the deer came out (all does) the one
    bleating (small button buck) came rocketing in to join them... it was 
    wild!  they were all partying directly under my stand, (vt needs to
    offer doe permits  ;^) ) Still not sure exactly what transpired, but 
    i'd ventrue to guess the button buck was either lost or calling for mom, 
    (why it was so far away from the safety of the others is another mystery
    altogether) and the the family answered tohe call...??? who says hunting 
    is an exact science :^)
    
    I'd definately try the bleat when you can't get the does to come close,
    or they're working their way outa range, worse case is they leave, but 
    there is the slight chance they may come in closer to investigate and 
    offer a good shot. either way you can't lose... as it wasn't gonna 
    offer a shot anyways.
    
    
    Just a little food for thought...
    
    Fra 

    
    
       I had an experiance last year with the grunt call I would like to
    share..  
           I was still hunting my favorite area in the early afternoon
    going through some pines when I thought I saw a flicker of white but
    passed it of as being a bird flying by.. I walked up to this small pine
    tree which had been rubbed and decide to sit for awhile and play with
    the grunt call to see what might happen .. I knoked an arrow and put
    the bow down beside me and through out a few grunts...No sooner do I
    put my grunt tube back in my pocket, I hear steady paced walking that
    sounded like squirrels, but squirrels are erratic in there movement.. I
    quickly get on my knees with bow in hand look up and I have to does
    coming directly in on me, one which I'm practicly face to face with...
    Well I was caught trying to draw on it, which was to no surprise
    seing it was about 15 yards away, and it started the old stomp
    routine and finally decided it was out of here... 
    
       The year before, I was in a spot during muzzle loading and I knew
    that deer come buy this area at 7:30am.. Well I didnt see anything and
    when it was 8:00am I decided to through a few grunts to see if anything
    was around. Ten minutes after my grunting her comes two does just
    browsing around.. I guess I have the I'm over here grunt down:')..
    
    Gus

    
    How loud do you grunt or bleat?  I mean, say you're on stand and
    there's nothing happening and you want to try calling.
    
    How loud and how many times should you call?
    
    For reference sake in the note lets use a scale of 1-10 for loudness.
    
    1=  normal talk
    10= yelling
    
    Rick
    

    I have had luck with grunting anywhere from a 1-4 on your scale.  I
    have heard about 8 or 10 deer grunt while hunting and none of them were
    (yelling).  If you tried to make the grunt call too loud, it may scare
    them worse than if you had not used it at all.  I  use the 1-2 range if
    I have them in sight, with the 3-4 if they I have spooked them lightly
    or if none are in sight.  I friend of mine shot at a 4 point, grazing
    his back.(actually cutting him slightly)  The deer started to take off
    and he grabbed his grunt call and gave him 2 grunts.  The buck stopped
    and came back.  He killed him on the next shot.
    
    I have also had deer look at me and go the other way when grunting.  I
    guess like one of the previous reply's said, "You don't know what has
    just happened to the deer prior to that time".  I think deer react
    differently in seperate areas as well.  The farms I am hunting have 1
    or 2 other hunters per 200 acres -not that much pressure.  
    
    If I had to choose between always using one, or never using one, I
    would probably choose "never using one".  I'm glad I don't have to
    choose though, I need every advantage I can get.
    
    Wess

>>            <<< Note 1040.17 by MCIS5::PAPPALARDO "A Pure Hunter" >>>

    
>>    How loud do you grunt or bleat?  I mean, say you're on stand and
    
    Rick,

	I've never tried calling for deer, but I read an article the
	other day concerning this.  The author recommended that you
	start out calling very softly, wait for a while (whatever
	that means) and then call again, this time a little louder.
	Gradually increase the volume each time you call.

	The idea was that you had no idea how close a deer might
	be, and it was better to call too softly than too loudly.
	Makes sense to me.
    
	Jerry

    
    
        When I used the grunt call, I grunted 3 or 4 times and as far as
    how loud, about a 2 scale....  
    
         To get into this a little more, I was hunting an area, still
    hunting that is, and it was about 2:00pm. It was a windy day and I had
    just sat down to take a break... I had the bow laying down to my left
    and my back up against the tree...All of a sudden I hear crash, crash
    boom... To my right is this buck at @20 yards... The wind must have
    spooked it or something and it kept looking back in the direction it
    came from. After a few minutes, it seemed to be satisfied that there
    was nothing after it and grunted 4 or 5 times, sort of quickly as if to
    say, "aghhh theres nothing out there to be afarid of! It's only the
    damn wind..." Well it took me an eternity to get into a kneeling
    position and get the shoot off but I must have peeked when I released
    and shoot under it's chest...Broke my arrow in three places..Boy was I
    bumbed... Anyhow thats when I started to use the 3 or 4 quick grunts
    which seems to work, sometimes...Good luck hunting, I'll be Pa. bound 
    in a week..I have only seen one deer in N.H. so far, but it's only the
    beginning... 
                                    
             Gus
                

    Rick,
    
    It's takes nothing more than a quick puff of air to either work the
    bleat or the grunt.  It's not like you have to take an enormous breath
    and pucker up to blow a trumpet or anything like that... ;^)
    
    quick puff is all you need...
    
    Fra    

    ok, so now we know how quiet to blow the bleat call.  Next question,
    how long or short do you blow it?  
    
    Jerry, do you get "Buckmaster" magazine?  I read the same commentary
    in Buckmasters.  They interviewed four or five top callers and they
    talked about their styles.  All of them said that they start off
    softly, and build up the volume level in time to a certain point.  But
    I don't recall anyone saying how long to bleat.  When I shot my deer
    last year, she was laying on the ground dying, neck shot, and she had
    bleats lasting about 3-4 seconds.
    
    HOW LONG DO MY BLEATS LAST?
    
    bob
    less than 24 hours I will be back on the stand, with a cold!
    

    
    I think Fra hit on it, softly and gentle, obviously very short in
    duration,  in other words shouldn't have wax pop out of the ears when
    blowing, and brief like a short puff.  
    
    Leonard

>>        <<< Note 1040.22 by ODIXIE::RHARRIS "only one shot, please!" >>>
>>                            -< how long to bleat? >-

>>    Jerry, do you get "Buckmaster" magazine?  I read the same commentary
>>    in Buckmasters.  They interviewed four or five top callers and they
>>    talked about their styles.  All of them said that they start off
>>    softly, and build up the volume level in time to a certain point.  But
>>    I don't recall anyone saying how long to bleat.  When I shot my deer

    bob,

	I read this in _North_American_Hunter_ (please, no comments).
	It sounds like the same article, though.  There were short
	articles by several "experts".  I can't recall if any of
	them mentioned how long to make the bleat.  I'll dig up
	the magazine and post any information on duration of the
	bleat if I can find some.

    Jerry    

    Jerry,
    
    I must have also read it in NAHC.  I just joined.  Is there a problem
    being a member of NAHC.  I seem to read some negative feedback on it in
    notes.  So far, I like it.
    
    Back on calling, I will try tommorrow my bleat call, with short, quiet
    bleats, and give my results on monday in this note.
    
    bob
    

    
    
    Hey, I'm a life member of NAHC.....what'd they do? I've been very
    pleased with them so far.....fill me in...
    
    
    
    						jim s.

    
    
    Well got out to the camp site this past weekend, did some clean up
    around and in the trailer then hit the woods.  We walked for about
    three hours, found some sign, and then saw an eight point and four doe. 
    The height of the day.  
    
    How to drive a hunter crazy.  We went and revisted all the fixed stands
    making sure we knew exactly were they are.  There is particular stand
    which was well camofloged, and was difficult to find even in the day
    light.  Having found it to be a good stand I needed to find it, well
    after about a half hour resigned myself to the fact that I just
    couldn't find it.  Turns out the owner of the stand won't be hunting
    with us this year and he came and removed it, what a relief.  This has
    got me to thinking about purchasing a portable stand again.  I'm really
    not that comfortable with geting into one, but I've been passing up too
    many prime locations not having one, oh what to do.
    
    On the way home Sunday morning saw quite a few deer, most unusual,
    perhaps its the cold weather getting them to move?  Well there are only
    ten days left till opening day (rifle), and its coming faster that
    anticipated.
    
    I will comment on one thing, which Bob Harris will like.  After
    spending all day Saturday out in the woods, seeing some of the largest
    spiders and some rather large webs, no snakes this time,  we came out
    of it without a bite.  Well we got home and sat down on the couch, my
    son has four or five bites, I have eight (I feel asleep).  Think we'll
    be going back to the woods were its safe.
    
    
    Oh, BTW, at the gun show this past week end I saw a new deer scent. 
    Now I'm not sure if it has been mentioned in some previous note, but
    its name is 'Hard ON', this is no joke folks.  It states that it is the
    best thing since sliced bread.  Reading the litature on it was like
    reading any of the others, I almost bought a bottle just to have one.

    Leonard,  In reference to Hard On buck lure, did they have girls in
    skimpy outfits pushing that crap?
    
    Sounds like you had a good weekend of scouting.  I went bow hunting
    again.  I saw five does.  One within shooting distance.  To bad it was
    on the right side of my stand.  FYI, shooting on the right side of the
    stand is almost impossible with a bow, when your sitting.  Needless to
    say, I MISSED!.  Damn.  But she did not see me.  So I decided to try my
    bleat call.  Soft, quiet, and short.  They did not even pay attention
    to it.  I have come to the conclusion that I will put my calls, and
    rattlin antlers away.  Silence and cammo IS THE ANSWER FOR ME!  She
    could not even spot me with my COMPLETE cammo.  Oh well, no snakes this
    trip.  Plenty of spiders, and a few mosquitos.  I am going to skip this
    weekend.  Got to get the house ready for the new wife.  Will go the
    weekend of Oct 12.  Oct 19 getting married.  Oct. 26 honeymoon,
    (opening day of fire arm season.)  Nov. 2 doe day for firearm, I WILL
    BE THERE!
    
    Good hunting.
    bob
    

     
    Bob
    
    Oh ye of little faith and trust, no there were no Hooter's there.  Like
    I said almost bought a bottle of that stuff just to prove that I wasn't
    making this up.
    
    Bob, if you keep cleaning up that house how will the new bride ever be
    able to find her way around the house?   Hate to see you miss a weekend 
    hunt, just think, it could be the weekend you get the big one.  the one
    with 24 + POINT rack, that dresses out at 280LBS, that puts you in the
    DIGTALs DEAD EYE hall of fame, but alas you shall now ever experience
    all this, for whilst thou are home others will hunt the buck with your
    name on it.  REMORSE 
    
    Sadly 
    Leonard