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Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

Title:The Hunting Notesfile
Notice:Registry #7, For Sale #15, Success #270
Moderator:SALEM::PAPPALARDO
Created:Wed Sep 02 1987
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1561
Total number of notes:17784

910.0. "1200 ft lbs the magic number" by KNGBUD::LAFOSSE () Fri Feb 15 1991 18:56

    I would like to start a discussion about how much energy each of you
    believe to be the minimum for taking deer sized game... A lot of
    authors believe 1200 foot lbs to be the bare minimum... would like to
    get a consensus on this, and hopefully by coming up with some kind of
    average, we can discuss deer loads more knowledebly...
    
    Personally, I go along with the 1200 ft lbs figure, as these guys have
    taken alot more deer than I...  It seems to be a good "round number".
    
    any other opinions on this?
    
    Fra
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910.1SA1794::CHARBONNDwheel to the storm and flyFri Feb 15 1991 19:2350
    Ya cai'nt hunt by no numbers. A 44 Magnum puts out barely 1000
    ft-lbs. Inadequate for deer ? How about a 357 Magnum at barely
    600 ft-lbs ? (That's half your 1200 figure.)
    
    Bullet placement, construction, penetration, and expansion make
    a lot more fifference than KE numbers. I'd rather shoot a deer
    with a 38 Special +P load than a 25-grain 17 caliber Remington,
    even though the latter shows more kinetic energy. 
    
    What is more important than raw numbers is an awareness of the
    limitations of an individual load. The above-mentioned 357 Magnum 
    is not _underpowered_, it is _limited_. Limited to a certain range,
    a certain shot placement, and a high level of skill. Let's say for
    argument sake 100 yards maximum, broadside shot on standing deer,
    shooter capable of hitting a 4-inch circle, reliable bullet.
    
    A 300 Winchester Magnum is much less _limited_. For argument sake, 
    adequate killing power to 350 yards, capable of shooting through 
    some bone, or raking shots through more of the animal, shot 
    placement not _quite_ as critical.
    
    The real question is, *what can you live with?* Are you one of those
    people who loses sleep because a deer walked by out of range ?
    Or are you one of those guys who'll take 80 yard shots with a
    bow, and 400 yard potshots with a 30-30 ? 
    
    Maybe I'm lucky. I started hunting with a bow, and watched many
    deer walk by out of range. I learned, and am still working on 
    learning, how to get closer, patterning the deer movement in
    order to be right where the deer will pass. I have to be right,
    within 25-30 yards. If I'm not, I get to watch a deer in a natural,
    undisturbed environment. (And there ain't a damn thing I can do about
    it ;-) ) I've seen dedicated gun hunters agonize over having a deer 
    pass by out of range, to the point of giving up the sport. I can't help
    but feel a bit sorry for these guys. 
    
    I get a real charge out of some gun writers (Charlie Askins comes
    to mind) who think nothing of hunting deer at distances of 3-400
    yards, and brag about their never-ending series of long shots.
    My gut reaction is always, couldn't you close the gap ? I know
    it isn't always possible, that sometimes that 300 yard shot is
    all you get, but I get the feeling some people are more interested
    in shooting accurate rifles than _hunting_. 
    
    Bottom line, know your limitations, know your equipment's limitations,
    and if you can't accept those limitations, change what you have to.
    It may be your gun, it may be your skill level, it may be your 
    attitude. Or a combination of all three.
    
    Dana
910.2Only the Experience tells you the bestITAMKT::SIMINONew SW Technologies MKTG Program Mgr.Tue Feb 19 1991 14:4828
    Yes, I agree with Dana, it isn't the muzzle power that counts but
    a set of parameters who depend from the kind of animal you're hunting
    (in this case deer), but also what kind of hunting you adopt (long
    range or short range, using shotguns, revolvers or rifles with or
    without scopes).
    
    Also restricting for instance the topic to a single cartrige, like
    the 30-06 you can have less or more succes in knocking down the
    target, changing the kind of bullet. Somebody could think than a
    heavy bullet like a 210grs SP could be better than a light 150grs
    SPSP. It depends! From the dinstance, from the kind of environment.
    A 2" tree branch is able to completely destroy a 150 SPSP. Not the
    same for the 210grs. Anyway, the 210grs couldn't trasfer to the
    target all the energy because can cross it, while the 150grs more
    easy expands and stops in the body.
    
    In other words it's only the experience you more and more increase
    each day you'll hunt that will provide you the best solution  for
    your way of hunting. A 44M shot by a M29 or Super RedHawk
    could be OK at the same way of a 300Winch Mag shot by a bolt action.
    
    Personally, since in Europe the use of revolvers is forbidden for
    hunting, I use a Sauer 300WM with a Swarowsky scope. This because
    it's very difficult to approach deers so, a round with a good energy
    on a long dinstance is recommended.
    
    Riccardo