Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    RE:0
    
    Doc,
    
    Let's see how much power this notes file has. Here's my proposal and
    challenge to every hunter in here.
    
    Doc, sence you brought it up and read this rag how about furnishing us
    the phone number to the paper.
    
    Everyone here call and ask for equal time, then, get back to this note
    with a breif description of what they said. Even if you're not from
    N.H. just state that you're a N.H. resident and want equal time.
    
    Maybe someone can suggest some wording. Then when all is done, and
    everyone responds back here with the answer of what they said we can
    elect the DOC to write a letter to the rag. As far as I'm concerned,the
    DOC is great with a pen..but not to worry, we'll all help with content
    and suggestions right everyone.
    
    So what do you all think? Sound like some fun? I for one would love to 
    hear what they say after the pounding phone calls, and when the DOc's
    letter gets printed, he can enter it here and we can all celibrate some
    Victory.....
    
    
    Sound like fun?  The call will take less than 5 min of your time, and
    think of it. We would hopefully make the paper and make a difference.
    
    Rick
    

 Actually, Rick, I think that such a response would be both counterproductive 
and would further encourage Greenwood's aberrant behavior. I think that that
sort of response is precisely what greenwood is trying to generate. Controversy
sells papers. Increased circulation gets him more $$$. I say screw him. Let
him make a jerk out of himself. The last time someone sent a letter to the
editor stating that Greenwood was overpaid even if he volunteered, Greenwood
spent an entire column lambasting the poor guy. You see, the paper will never
give us "equal access." We are not on the payroll. He is. His buffoonery
is printed on the front of a section, the sports section no less. Our 
objections, righteous though they may be, get buried on page 23. 

 His childish taunting ought not get a response from us. We can, of course, talk
about what a tool he is among ourselves. :-)

 The Doctah

   Doctah (shame on you)

        Are we wimping out here? I think we can send a strong message to the 
paper somehow. I think cancelled subscriptions send a good one. Let's organize
an attack of some kind at least equal time. Maybe someone should take him hunt-
ing. I took a writer for the Pheonix for a week about 12 years ago, he was an
anti but just played the silent observer for the duration. When he published
his article he had been converted 100%. I'll have to get a copy and publish it 
in notes somewhere, I'll leave a forward to it.

    
    re .3
    
    This guy is firm anti, he states right off in the beginning of the
    article that he is against hunting and it should be banned.
    
    This is hard to say but this was the most fair this guy has been,
    though he was not fair.  He made a couple of statements that said that
    not all hunters are the same, some are responsible. For the first time
    he did not lump us all together as beer guzzling, blood thirsty 
    animals waiting behind a bush with a machine gun and a 6-pack. (This 
    statement is not exaggeration, that is what he said we were last year).
    
    Maybe he is turning, or maybe he just got pressure from above to calm
    down. There have been several letters published with complaints about 
    him and his attitude, these have been on alot of issues, from hunting
    and guns in general, to cheerleaders and the town board for not getting
    a class AAA ball team in Nashua.  It seems whenever he puts something 
    in he is way overboard on his point of view and is very stereotypical
    about the group he is writing about.
    
    --Bob
    

    I was watching TV Sunday night (10/21/90), can't remember which channel
    or What the name of the show was... But it was about Mountain Lions...
    I was watching with my kids, and was enjoying it until the enevitable 
    happened...  They showed a guided Cougar hunt with dogs.
    
    The camera shows a Guide driving down a tote road looking for tracks.
    when they cross some... he pulls over and lets the dogs loose... they
    have not only radio collars on but some kind of device that tells when
    the dog is looking up (presumably when the cat is treed)... its
    nothinng more than chasing down the dogs with the use of a radio
    reciever.  Then the Great White Hunter steps up (35-40 yds) and lets 
    the cat have it with a handgun (to top it of the Guide finishes off the
    cat as its still hanging in the tree), end of story and hunt... The Guide
    guarantees his clients a cat in 7 days... This hunt took two.
    
    To say that I was dissipointed and saddened would be an understatement.
    I had to explain to my 3 daughters (5, 7, and 9) that this was not
    hunting in the true sense of the word.
    
    Anyone else catch it...  I can see why Anti's are so crazy over
    this CA ban on cougar hunting.
    
    I certainly wouldn't condemn someone for hunting in this fashion, but
    it definately is not for me.
    
    Fra
    

    Fra, I agree 100%, but what's the difference between that cat hunt and
    say, bear hunting with dogs?
    
    Mark.

 re: Ouellette

 Nope, I'm not wimping out. If you ever read one of my (in)famous letters to the
editor of that paper, you'd know I'm not like that. :-) What I am doing is
recognizing that the law of diminishing returns is in effect here. After
seeing the lack of guts Greenwood has as was exemplified in his villification
of the guy who wrote to the editor, I can't see how an angry letter is going
to help us. (If he had any nads at all, he'd have let his journalism do the
talking instead of reaming the guy out when the guy had no chance to respond.)
Rule 1: Know thy enemy.

 re: World of Discovery

 I saw this show. I thought it was excellent. My wife looked up as they were
killing the mountain lion. "What are they doing?!!!" she asked. "They fancy
themselves to be hunters," I replied, derisively.

 That isn't hunting. That's killing. There's a big difference. And I have no
problem whatsoever condemning people who engage in that sort of "sport."
Why don't they just go to the zoo and shoot them in the cage? Save wear and
tear on the trucks. There is no sport at all in that sort of activity. It is
not risky, or an open question as to what the outcome is going to be or
a challenge or anything. It is just killing. Well, you can take that. I'm
not interested. I think it stinks.

 The show was definitely not anti hunting. They didn't make any moral 
pronouncements about these so called hunters. They just showed how they "hunt"
out there. It definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. 

>    Anyone else catch it...  I can see why Anti's are so crazy over
>    this CA ban on cougar hunting.

 Me too. Given the paucity of cougars, I don't have a problem with the ban, 
especially when such unsporting methods are used.

 JMO.

 The Doctah

    re .5
    
    I saw that too.  It took FOUR shots to kill the mountain lion!  It just
    jerked on the first shot.  The second shot almost made it fall of the
    limb.  The third shot was made while it was barely hanging on.  After
    quivering and shaking on the ground, the fourth shot was fired.  I
    wonder how many trips the photographer went on before he found a cat
    that would die so agonizingly slowly for this show.  
    
    The hunters were also a group we could all be proud of.  They acted and 
    talked like a bunch of yahoos who were only interested in killing a cat.
    I was afraid my wife was about to ask me not to go hunting this year!  
    The show successfully pushed the buttons in her that it was trying for.
    

    Doc,
    
    I guess you can write... villification, derisively, paucity... I had 
    to break out the dictionary a few times...  ;^)
    
    I agree 100% about the show... it was excellent, just wish they had
    left the "killing" out, it left a bad taste in my mouth also.
    
    Mark,
    
    Regarding hunting Bears with dogs... If they use the same methods then
    I would find this not to my liking either.  I think that bears
    would give much more of a fight also, I may be wrong though.
     
    IMHO,  Fra                   
    
    

We should open a new note for the Couger hunt fiasco and keep this for the
 Telgraph Anti

 Doctah: I hear you, guess I may go ahead with a cancellation threat anyway!

    Back on track in a second.  I just HAD to throw in my two cents on the
    cougar hunt.  The way the hunters were talking, they were going to turn
    the cougar in for $50.  When I hunt, I kill for the meat.  Antlers,
    etc, is an option.  They were not hunters, they were killers.  They
    killed that cougar for $50.  That is the difference.
    
    Bob
    
    
    
    
    ok, back on track now!
    

I saw the show on the cougar, too.  However, I got the distinct
impression that the cougar hunt was intentionally portrayed to make the
hunters (or whatever noun you wish to use) look as bad as possible.
All through the show, there was nice, pretty background music while
the animals were being shown.  They even went to some length to explain
how cougars actually helped a deer herd by culling the weak an
inferior animals.  I'll tell you right now that I'm no expert, but
I've heard others voice just the opposite opinion.  All in all, I just
didn't buy the show as being accurate and unbiased.  I felt like the
makers of the film were a whole lot more interested in influencing public
opinion than they were in painting an objective, accurate picture of
cougars.  I also felt like they went out of their way to slam hunters.

To elaborate further on the cougar hunt, they made it look like the
hunters just cruised the roads, walked a few feet, and murdered a
helpless animal.  Maybe they did.  I don't know because I wasn't there.
But I'll bet that there was a whole lot more to it than that.  And
from what I've read about hunting like that with dogs, I've always had
the impression that it's a pretty tough way to bag your quarry.

Now I'm not saying that I want to try this brand of hunting.  But I'm
sure as heck not gonna pass judgement on it based on that show.  When
I was a kid, I used to hunt with my grandad's dog.  He would leave the
house a little after dark and we would wait to hear him barking.  He
would have something treed, maybe a raccoon, or a skunk, or an opossum,
or whatever.  Whatever it was, my grandad considered it a pest and we
would kill it.  Let me tell you, there's plenty of excitement in that
kind of hunting.  I honestly don't know if I'd enjoy that sort of
thing now, but when I was 12 years old, my conscience didn't seem to
mind at all.  And, I should add, my grandad farmed 160 acres in West
Texas and the elimination of these pests made it just a little bit
easier for him to make a living.

That's all I have to say on the matter.  I just wanted to point out
that all is not what it seems on the wonderful world of the boob tube
and we should certainly temper our judgement with what we know for
sure to be factual from our own experience.

Jerry

    
    This months issue of GOAL's newspaper "The Message" has an article
    on anti's. The article stated that the group "Earth first" printed
    a pamphlet on how to discredit hunters. They said to shoot farmers
    cows with a bow beacuse it is quiter than a gun and if they did'nt
    have a bow to use a shotgun with buckshot so it could'nt be traced.
    When asked why they did it the group said it was a joke and not
    to be taken seriuosly. (I don't find it funny at all). Apparently
    these people also dont like cows to be raised to give milk. They
    are real fruitcakes.
    
    On a good note there was another article that showed a survey done
    by the Gallup pole and 90 percent of the people questioned nationwide
    did not agree with what the radical anti's are doing or their ways
    of doing it. There were some other questions that I dont remember
    so if you get a chance read the article.
                        
                                      Walt
    

    Walt, Mike Garzillo (local outdoor writer in Dover NH) had the results
    of that Gallup poll in his weekly column last week.  Interesting
    results.
    
    Mark.

    Anyone see the Discovery show on waterfowling last night?  Disgusting,
    to say the least.
    
    According to the program, for every goose killed, something like
    4 others are lost as cripples due to people shooting when the birds
    are out of range.  Also, for every bird shot, 12 rounds of ammo
    are unloaded into the skies.
    
    One bozo was bragging that he and his 3 partners *all* unloaded
    at the same goose and even though it was hit, it continued in flight.
    
    Mark.

    Moral: No Skybusting! Know your range, your guns patterns, your
    limits. 
    
    These three a**holes will cost us _all_ a lot of hard-eared
    respect as sportsmen and conservationists.

    I saw it on satellite last week.  I notice they commented on steel 
    shot not carrying so far.  One seemed to lament the fact that he 
    couldn't use lead shot.  
     
    But they were shooting all at once even though the ducks were out 
    of range and ended up recovering only two of all those they knew 
    were wounded.  
    
    I too, was thinking this not a good example of sportsmanship, or 
    training anyone how to go duck hunting.... 
    
    N

    I was watching The Discovery Channel last night (12-12-90) at 10:00 pm
    EST, they had on a show about antlers and horns.... not a bad show, up
    till the time when they posted on the screen some bullsh!t about:
    
    "trophy hunters illegally kill elk, moose, bighorn sheep, deer and...."
    
    next blip on the screen went something like this:
    
    "poachers illegally kill...."    GREEN ALERT
    
    anyone else catch this... I have always loved watching the discovery
    channel because of the great shows they have on, very educational. 
    They blew it last night though with this little message.
    
    Anybody else happen to catch it, What the hell is a GREEN ALERT???
    
    Fra

    Fra:
    
    The Discover Channel has an office in the building across the street
    from us here in Landover, Maryland .... I'll see if I can find out some
    information and post it here.
    
    Christine

    Thanks Christine!
    
    Fra

    ok Fra:
    
    This is what I've got so far....
    
    Phone number:  301-577-1999 - They've got this elaborate voice mail
    system.  I checked out program information then went onto another set
    of messages which was for viewer questions.  You have to leave your
    name and number and someone will get back to you in the order of your
    call.  Hopefully I'll hear something back today... When I do I'll post
    it.

    re .19 Notice how they quickly and quietly equated 'trophy hunters'
    with 'poachers'. ALERT indeed. This is the kind of intellectual
    'package-dealing' that will get us hung. 'Trophy hunting' is a
    personal quest for a large, mature, special example of a certain
    species, taken by fair chase hunting. 'Poaching' is the taking
    of game by illegal methods, often for commercial resale.
    
    DON'T LET YOUR OPPONENTS GET AWAY WITH THIS ! 'Discovery' has
    misrepresented every hunter, and especially those who set
    their hunting goals the highest.

    Over this past weekend I saw a couple of GOOD shows on cable. One was
    one of the outdoor shows on TNN. They featured Ted Nugent (sp) Bow
    hunting black bear in Sascachauan (sp, again). When I heard who it was,
    (I was in the another room when the show came on), I almost dropped. I
    didn't know these Heavy rockers went in for this kind of stuff. One of
    his comments towards the end of the show was quite impressing. He
    stated that when he sees "kids" that are looking for something "good"
    to do besides hang around the malls, he suggests taking up hunting or
    at least getting out into the out of doors and enjoy nature. I thought
    that was a great message to pass on to the younger set.
    
    Another show I saw was a Special on the Discovery channel about
    Whitetail country. Most of the show was about the deer, their habits
    and habitat. Abouit 3/4 of the  way through the show they mentioned
    hunting and how it was a Highly regulated sport and how hunting and
    hunters  contribute to the welfare of the deer population. There was No
    negative comments about hunting or hunters and I was quite pleased with
    this, cause they (the media) usually have some down side of hunting to
    show us.
    
    Well I hope every one had a Great Christmas and I hope Santa brought
    you all everything you wanted.
    
    Keep your powder dry, happy shooting and have a Happy New Year.
    
    Cowboy

    
    	Hey Cowboy,
    
    		I saw the Discovery show and agree, it was pretty well 
    done!  No bone to pick there..  I would like to know where they were
    filming though :').  However, there was an Ann Landers article I saw
    this weekend that got my blood boiling!!!  Pure, downright, bona-fide
    bull*&it.  The guy writing the letter was a one-time hunter who
    apparantly went hunting with a bunch of yahoos and now professes to
    be an expert.  Wants to go the whole nine yards, ban hunting, blah,
    blah, blah...  Yackedy, yackedy, yackedy...  He should get a life...
    
    - Rob
    

    re: 24 & 25
    
    I too saw the special on Whitetail Deer on Discovery (Sorry, as a
    beginning hunter I watch & read everything I can get my hands on about
    whitetail deer, even though the Discovery Channel never did return my
    phone call)  It was a great show!
    
    Christine

    re: .25
    I saw the A.L. article only because of the headline, normally not a 
    fan of hers ...    Her reply was for anti hunters to concentrate on 
    deer hunters !!!  
    
    N

    
    In the new issue of Outdoor Life in the letter to the editor section
    there is alot about the anti's. The readers refered to something
    called the "Tag game" it was in a past issue, maybe someone else
    saw the article but I think it had to do with tricking companies
    into endorsing anti hunting. 
    
    There was also a mention of the group Earth first, another radical
    group of anti's. I usually dont buy OL but this is the
    annual"Adventure" issue so the stories are pretty good.
    
                                  Walt
                           

    I called the Discovery Channel's main office also... got a recording
    saying to leave my number and they would return the calls in the order
    in which they came in...  havn't heard from them yet... I would
    probably cancel the channel, but they have some terrific shows and the
    kids love it....i'll just have to answer questions as they ask...
    
    I watched the Whitetail Country program... very informative, this was
    the second time i've watched it.. last year it was aired Christmas Eve.
    They had another show on about a week ago about whitetail's, forgot the
    name of the show but it was another good one... taped them both.
    
    Rob,  WC was filmed in New York...
    
    For the last couple of years I've been telling my kids that I only
    shoot the bad bucks, not the "mommy" deer... Well I took the whole clan
    up to the camp in VT to close the place, and my kids saw the scoresheet
    and my wife overheard them saying "daddy shot a doe?!?!?" She
    immedietly sat them down and tried to explain why we sometimes have to
    shoot the mommy deer... They still have a hardtime understanding the Game
    Management concept but after watching the programs on the Discovery
    channel, they understand it a little better...
    
    Fra

>    For the last couple of years I've been telling my kids that I only
>    shoot the bad bucks, not the "mommy" deer..

 Yikes. I'm not sure I'd take that approach.

    Rep: Fra.
    
    	I have to agree with .30. Yikes. I'm not sure I'd take that
    approach.
    
    	Please don't take this as ME trying to tell you how to rais your
    children, that's your business. I only offer wht I di with my children
    on the subject of my hunting.
    
    	Both my children, girl and boy were raised in the country. They saw
    deer from time to time when we were out for a drive. When I stopped the
    car to watch I would discuss my past hunts. I'd say things like, "I
    shot a deer like that one on the left a couple years ago". Ya and did
    it taste good. They would always have questions to ask and I would
    answer with streight right to the point answers. I leave out the gory
    parts of course but always told them exatly what I do. How the deer
    didn't suffer and related the deer to all the other meat foods we eat.
    I'd show them cows, turkeys, etc; and tell them of the food chain.
    That cow would make some fin hambergs.
    
    	My wife on the other hand was pure city raised and puts up with my
    hunting and killing animals, not because she dosen't mind but she knows
    it's part of me and can't change it. She has over the last few years
    started to eat and enjoy the deer meat though.
    
    	Steve  

    I agree with you guys 110% and then some... ;^)
    
    the problem came about about 4 years ago when my oldest was 5 and my
    middle one was 3 and my youngest was just born...  They have been
    raised with the sights and stories of a hunting parent so nothing is
    really out of the ordinary but, one day I was hit with the "daddy you
    don't shoot the mommy deer do you?" I quickly answered "no, daddy only
    shoots the bad deer", i'll admit it may not be the thing to say but at
    the time they were not old enough to understand the concepts... all
    else being equal, it has actually worked out ok... i tell them about 
    deer and hunting and all the things i think they can digest at the
    moment...  actually, they are more informed than the average hunter.
    
    We watch all the wildlife specials available and on saturdays we watch
    about 2-3 hours of espn, which they enjoy more than the cartoons...
    this is 3 girls mind you.  As we watch the wildlife shows it's nice to
    hear them say, "oh ya you told me that" or "oh, now i know what you
    were talking about" etc...  I think it's great that they are so 
    interested in the nature of things, it makes me proud.
    
    They can now understand the concepts of game management and the
    difference between does and fawns and when they are really mothers,
    and when they are just deer.  
    
    It may not have been the best approach but it worked and my kids are
    more concious of the way things really are and not how people believe
    them to be.  
    
    Fra
    

    
    One of these days you'll just have to get around to explaining
    to them how a young deer, 6 months old, is already capable of
    surviving without its mother. 

    re:.33
    
    already have...  they were amazed... course watching it in real life 
    really drove home the lesson... like I said they now know the
    difference between does with fawns and "regular" does... They got a
    good look at deer which had starved because of overpopulation and
    disease when they watched the show on DC about the whitetails.
    
    My inlaws raise sheep and the kids have witnessed many births and 
    deaths as well as helped deliver a few...  Basically my kids are 
    very worldly ;^)
    
    Steve,
    
    I suppose your kids know there's no Santa huh....  ;^)
    
    Fra

	Fra.



	I'm not sure if my kids think there's a Santa or not. Hold the
line I'll check..........


	Fran get off the phone I need it to call Amy.
	Ok it's yours.....

	click click click click click
	click click click click
	click click click click click click click click
	click click click click click click
	click click click click click click click click click click
	click click click click click click click
	click click

	Ring Ring ________ Ring Ring ______ Ri__hello

	Hi Amy this is the old man, NO I'm not going to send you any more MONEY!
	I just called to ask you a question.

	Ya what is it?	

	Do you believe in Santa?

	HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaaaa HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaaa HEHEHEHEHEHeeeeee

	Geeee I just thought I'd ask......

	See you this week end and don't bring home the boy friend.

	Click.....


	Hay Fra.. I don't think she believes in Santa.  8*)

	Actually there are SOOOOOoooooo many deer all over my place, the hove
prints are so thick that the kids thought Santa's reindeer lived with us. ;^)

	My son is going on 15 he still believes in Santa. After all where else
would that Dartin bow have come from?

	Steve

The following doesn't have much to do with hunting, but is does
concern a rather prominent anti-hunting organization.

There was an editorial in today's Gazette-Telegraph (the Colorado
Springs paper) about Cleveland Amory's group (I think it's Funds for
Animals) getting a court injunction to stop the U.S. National Park
Service from killing 25 buffaloes (American Bison, actually) in the
Yellowstone National Park in order to study Brucellosis.  Brucellosis is a 
Bovine disease which can spread to cattle and even humans.  In cattle, it
causes pregnant cows to abort their calves.  It can spread to humans
through consumption of infected meat and it can kill you.

According to the editorial, the fires in the park a few years back
had resulted in expanded grassland for the buffs and they are spreading.
Some of the animals have Brucellosis and the neighboring ranchers are
concerned about it spreading to their cattle herds.  Once a herd is
infected, the cure is to kill your cattle.

Anyway, the Park Service has received permission (or granted permission,
I'm not sure how the legal part of this works) to kill 25 buffaloes and
study the carcasses to help stop the spread of this.  The 25 animals
represent a very small portion of the total herd.  They had killed
3 animals when the injunction stopped the project.

There was a quote attributed to Amory which I can't remember exactly.  However,
I do remember that it was highly emotional and something to the order
of "We want to let those SOBs know that they can't get away with this."
type statement.

On the plus side of all of this, the editorial really ragged on Funds
for Animals and accused them of not really caring about or understanding the
big picture.  It pointed out how the Park Service is actually trying to help 
the remaining animals in the herd by reducing the loss to this disease.  In
other words, the writer of the editorial actually made sense and pointed
out the stupidity and downright arrogance of Amory's postion.

On a personal note, It seems to me that this is convoluted, emotional and
extremely unsound reasoning that says its OK to idly sit by and watch a 
disease decimate an animal population rather than selectively kill and 
study a small portion in an effort to save the rest.  I'm not sure whose
purpose they are serving, but it sure isn't the animals's.  Heaven help us 
all if they ever decide to save the "Human" animal population.

Jerry

I caught the following on TV last night.  Seems like PETA (People for
Ethical Treatment of Animals) have gone a bit overboard.

PETA ran a full page ad in one of the Des Moines, IA newspapers comparing
what Jeffery Dahmer has been doing to people to what the meat industry
does to animals.  They tried to run the ad in Minneapolis, but none
of the papers would accept their ad.

It seems that the major complaints against this ad have been in regard
to the effect this ad has on the victims' families.  I didn't actually
see the add, but it sounds like it was pretty class-less.  

For those of you that don't know, PETA is also very anti-hunting.  If
you ask me, ain't none of 'em got both oars in the water.

On a separate note, the September issue of _Peterson's_Hunting_ has
an editorial dealing with how to battle anti-hunting groups.  It
suggests that we subscribe to the _Bunny_Huggers_Gazette_.  Yes,
Virginia, there really is such a publication.  It is published out
of Waco, Tx (I'm ashamed that anything this stupid could come out of
my home state) and it is a strict animal's rights publication.  One
of the things it does is print addresses of various companies which
use animal testing.  It even targeted Ralston-Purina (or one of the
dog food companies).  It urges its membership to flood these companies
with letters of complaint about their use of animals in whatever it
is they are doing.  It will even write the letter for you, if you so
desire.

Anyway, before you think I've lost my mind, the author suggests that
we subscribe to their publication (it's about 12 bucks a year) and
turn the tables on them.  Instead of writing letters of complaint,
write letters to let them know that we support some of their practices.
Of course, each individual would have to determine for him/herself which
companies they wish to encourage.  I don't particularly like to see
animals used for testing such indespensible items as make-up.

If anyone is interested, I can post the address for BHG.  Also, if you
find this interesting or worthwhile, I suggest that you read this
editorial yourself.

Jerry

    
    re .37
    
    When I read the text of the ad that PETA put out it was like turning
    on a light.  I was never more disgusted by a group, of any type, before
    in my life.  They are plain idiots, and it will backfire on them like
    crazy.  The ad, for those who have not read it, describes a situation,
    ...and the limbs were dismembered, the flesh refrigerated for later
    consumption....etc...and the last line said, "if this sounds familiar,
    become a vegetarian."  Who to hell are these people to try and convert
    people in this manner?  They've completely given up on the old line of
    the health benefits of a low fat diet and they've gone to this!!!!
    
    I am going to look for a copy of that ad, it was printed as part of 
    an article in our local paper, The Burlington Free Press.  I will keep
    that copy and show it to other anti's I come across to show them what
    a wonderfully gifted group they are part of.
    
    Then I remember how Ted Nugent dealt with PETA and I laugh.  Somewhere
    in this notesfile there is a letter posted from PETA to Ted, and Ted's
    wonderful response to these out-of-touch bimbos.
    
    Kevin
                          

    
    	re.37
    
    	 PETA May just have shot itself in the foot with this one.
    
        	Also, before joining ANY group, call or send for
    information.  (50 or 60 times!  :-)  )
    
    

PETA's at it again.  I heard the following on a local radio station this
morning.  PETA is pulling some billboard ads as some are finding them
offensive.  The adds feature River Phoenix and Curt Cobain, with the
wording similar to "I wouldn't be caught dead in furs".  PETA claims
it was meant as a tribute to these two.  Yeah, right.

In case you don't live int the twentieth century, River Phoenix was a
young movie star (_Stand_by_Me_) who recently died from a drug
overdose.  Curt Cobain was a rock and roller who recently committed
suicide by shooting himself in the head.

Jerry

    I kind of like it when groups like PETA do stupid things like this.
    Hopefully the general public looks at the ads and comes to the
    conclusion that there a bunch of zipperheads.
    
    Jeff

    Me too. The more they show their true colors, the more likely that
    mainstream america will recognize them as fringe operators.

    I heard today they dropped the ads just because of what you said.
    
    Ken

The Kurt Cobain one was particularly rude - it said "I need to wear fur like
I need a hole in the head"

(he shot himself in the head while commiting suicide...)  You have to wonder 
how the relatives of these people felt...