Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    ALRIGHT JIM! CONGRATS FOR SURE! 
    
    Good story, For a moment, this New Hampshire hunter was there. Now
    where was I?, or yeah the Q1 forecast. Yuuuuukkkkkkkkk.
    
    Rick.
    
           P.S. What was the dressed weight?
    

    That bull was bound and determined to fight! That story belongs in
    Outdoor Life or Bowhunter magazine. Nice go'in Jim!
    
    Pg

    Good going Jim. You wouldn't be sending any Steaks back east for thoses
    of us who havn't started deer season yet ???
    
    	Smile,
    
    	Red

    
    
      Congratulations Jim.
    
       I think I can understand why the bow was shakin'!!  Your patience
    sure paid off.  Let us know the weight, etc. when you get back from
    camp.
    
                                                    Dave
    
    

    My hats off to Jim. This was one of the better stories or accounts
    and surely one you will remember for a life time.
    
    There is a little saying I developed for those times when I am
    hunting or fishing that I think applies here and it is
    
    " Anything worthwhile is worth waiting for."
    
    I use this particularly when I am on stand and I am thinking of moveing
    or I am fishing and I haven't been successful but I am considering
    calling it quits.
    
    In this case and many others you are are better sticking it out.
    
    If you could get some pictures out ASAP I would insure that they 
    get in the photo album as I am sure many of us would really enjoy
    getting a view.
    
    I was wondering how much effort it took to get the animal out and
    home.
    
    congradulations again.
    
    Bear

	My partner, Dave, managed to fill his elk tag last Friday Morning
on a nice plump spike.  We had it hanging in the cooler by 2 pm.  The 
estimated live weight of the spike was 350 lbs. and my 4 pt. was 600 lbs.
Neither animal required quartering and packing, but we had fairly long
pulls to where we could get our trucks.
	My mouth is watering thinking of all those steaks and sausage.

	Next weekend - we take the video camera. 
	
	Good Luck to the rest of you,

	Jim (with the big smile)

    Congratulations!
    
    What a great story to start the season off with!
    
    Mark,
    

    Well I'm back.
    
    Saturday morning I bugled one from sun up to 10:30 am, he just kept
    walking the other way taking his cows with him. I managed to get
    right in the middle of the cows, thinking that would make the bull
    want to come in, it didn't. Then one of the cows came in and got a good
    look at me and took off like a light.
    
    Sunday am we walking right into a bull standing in the trail, no chance
    for a shot. We where able to call a cow back. rained in the pm.
    
    Monday rained all day, bulgled with a few in the pm.
    
    Tuesday, snow/rain I chased a 6x6 bull all morning, took me along
    time to get close to him. He would answer everytime, but would not come
    in. I finally got him in a opening 50 yards out max. 
    Capped the muzzle loader, aim... snap, new cap, cow call, snap, another
    cap, still cow calling, snap. The bull walks away into the woods. I was
    real close to destorying a muzzleloader. Then another bull from below
    bugles. I start the stalk all over again with him. We get with 20 yards
    of each other. He's on the other side of a tree, racking. I did a quick
    step from behind the tree, aim, snap.
    
    That's pretty much how it went all week. I bet we bugled with 20 ELK
    during the week. Chased them all over the woods, they just didn't want
    come in. Really had to work for them. 
    
    I don't know about this muzzle loading stuff.  When it's wet outside
    they are not the most reliable guns in the world. I did about
    everything I could think of to keep it dry.
    
    mark

    Man, you oughtta just throw rocks at 'em in hopes of knocking one out.
    Then you'd have all day to try to shoot him.
    
    :-)  :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
    
    I'd have been upset.
    
    /brett
    

    I just got back from hunting caribou in the Ungava Bay region of
    Quebec.  Glad to say that everyone in a group of 12 tagged out with
    two bull caribou each.  The estimated weight of the two caribou I 
    bagged were 300 and 350 pounds with racks of 39 and 43 inches across.
    
    We used the services of Safari Nordik outfitters.
    
    						John C.

    I understand when we return from vacation that there is a pile of work
    however when you find some time would you mind giving us more details
    on .10
    
    I know that not every hunt is exciting as some and not every person is
    as good at writing in the details but at least I thought I would
    ask For "MORE."
    
    I'm glad it was sucessful.
    
    Sincerely 
    Bear

     John,
     Where ( specifically ) in the Ungava Bay area did your group hunt?
     We hunted out of the Finger Lake Camp a couple of years ago, with
     good success.  It sounds like the Caribou are still prospering
    in that area.  I'm looking forward to a return trip.
    
     -jro
    

    
    
    We hunter out of the Puunic Camps on the river Real.
    
    I know I will return there again some day.
    
    
    
    			John
    

    I'll fill in some of the details in a follow-up note later after
    whittling down the pile of work waiting for me here in the office, but
    my likely once-in-a-lifetime moose hunt in Maine was a success.  (I'm a
    resident of Mass. and was lucky enough to get one of the 100
    non-resident permits out of approx. 17,500 non-res. applicants.)
    
    Thursday, Sept. 27 at about 9:00 AM, took an 800 pound bull.  Nice
    rack, 12 points 42 in. spread.  75 yard shot with .308 BLR.  Open
    sights.  Downed with 1 shot through the lungs and a second to finish. 
    Experience of a lifetime for me!  Location was T14-R14 way up in
    Maine's Northwest zone.  I'll fill in more details later.  What a trip!

    I got back Monday night from Eastern Oregon Mule Deer hunt. Been
    busy, so I haven't had much time to "note".
    
    Due to a DEC meeting 1/3 of the way to the cabin I went in on Thurs
    night.  I scouted some new areas Friday, did some grouse hunting
    (limited by 7:30), finished painting the cabin and rehung the game
    pole.  My son arrived about 9:30 pm and after many cribbage games
    we hit the rack for an early morning hunt.  Saturday was clear,
    dry and hot.  You couldn't walk without making alot of noise, so
    I sat down under a tree and glassed the ridges for a couple of hours.
    I did see about 8 head of does and fawns and a bunch of elk.  That
    evening, more does and elk, but no bucks.
    
    Sunday we decided to hunt over in an area about 1500 feet higher
    than the cabin.  This is usually not a good idea early in the year.
    The deer are usually in some farmers field in the low country, but
    we wanted to go up in that area because the hunting pressure would
    be less.  We saw lots of game.  Several deer and more elk (2 spikes
    and a 6 point that would make your heart stop) were spotted, but
    no bucks.  Just when I was giving my son the benefit of my years
    of knowledge that no self respecting buck would be up this high,
    he spotted a deer bedded down in a logged out clearing.  There was
    lots of down trees and slash for them to lay in, but I could see
    it through the scope and it was a buck.  I could also see another
    deer, partially hidden, laying next to him.  I had the cross hairs
    on the first one, but held up to check the second deer.  It turned
    out to be a buck also.  So the plan was I'd take the one on my side
    (the partially hidden one) and he'd get the first one.
    
    As I was moving into a better shooting position, mine jumped up
    and took off.  I missed the first shot, but on the second shot,
    he dropped.  I swung onto the second deer and got a shot as it was
    going over some down stuff and missed.  During this time my son
    had shot twice, once at each deer.  It seems he had forgot to through
    the safety off and when the fun started, he didn't get into action
    until deer were running in both directions.  What makes matters
    worse is that the deer that was spotted first and the "no-brainer"
    shot, wasn't even shot at until he was at a dead run/jump away from
    us. My son got excited and forgot the plan, but if I hadn't missed
    the first shot we would have got them both anyway so blame is spread
    all around, as it should be.
              
    Due to the weather we headed down to the cabin to skin it and give
    it a fresh water cleaning.  We had it cleaned, covered and hung
    in the wood shed by 11am.  A nice forked horn with lots of fat and
    in terrific shape.  I'll butcher it this week end.
    
    
    Ken
    
    

    You're allowed 2 deer in Oregon?
    
    Mark.

    Ken,
    
    Ex-DECCIE Lon Willoughby just got back from his home state of Oregon
    the other day.  He had a good hunt.  He and his father each tagged
    a 4 point (8 Eastern of course).  Siad it was the first buck he's seen
    out there in two years.
    
    Sorry, can't tell you where he was hunting be cause I forgot to ask (I
    wouldn't know where it was anyway).
    
    We're planning to hunt around Marble WA (around St. Helen) this weekend
    for the season opener.  Just a two trip because we're going to MT for
    10 days at the end of the month.  I've never been to Marble but hear
    it's a blacktail area.
    
    /brett 

    Brett, are hunters allowed 2 deer in Oregon?
    
    Mark.

    re. 2 deer in Oregon
    
    In most cases you are allowed only one deer.
    
    In my particular case there were two hunters with two valid tags
    shooting at two legal deer.  When one went down the fire was switched
    to the other.  It wasn't until cleaning time that it was determined
    who shot the deer.
    
    
    Ken                                                 
    

         Governor's Table Camps
       	 Juniper, New Brunswick
       	 Canada                                          

       	 5-day guided woodcock and grouse hunt with 
         room and board: $600    
         -----------------------------------------------------------
                                                                
         I booked this trip with two friends two years ago so as to 
         reserve the prime week of the woodcock migration. Well, this
         year the first week of October will probably turn out to be
         the worst week of the season. The local birds had already
         been pushed out by two weeks of shooting and unseasonably
         warm weather kept the northern birds from moving in.

         The few birds that were left had the advantage of thick,
         green foliage. In five days of hunting, not one of us made it
         through a box of shells. I fired at only nine birds. We were
         simply stunned by how poor the hunting was.
                                                                   
         It's easy to take a birdless day at home, but when you're
         spending good money and have high expectations from New
         Brunswick's reputation and generous bag limits (8 woodcock
         and 6 grouse per day), you feel pressure to bag birds. So we
         worked ourselves pretty hard. If the game was in modest
         supply, we would have taken long lunches and relaxed a bit.
                                                                    
         Still, we managed to have a good time, especially after we 
         got our guide to loosen up and joke about the absence of
         birds. He took us to a promising covert where he said he had
         sprinkled buck woodcock scent. 'Said they were scrapping all
         over the place. That got everyone started on deer tactics for
         woodcock. The joke finally came to a merciful end with
         "rattling woodcock beaks." 
                                  
         As to the grouse shooting, we met a game warden who claimed
         that it's a low year for New Brunswick's grouse. With the
         warm weather and ample food supply, the birds weren't
         congregating in the feeding areas. But with the birds
         dispersed in the green foliage we still managed to collect a
         few.
                                                            
         Of the four parties at the camp, only one did fairly well.
         These three hunters had the advantage of four good pointing
         dogs. In the thick cover our flushing dogs, two Springers and
         an American Water Spaniel, couldn't hunt close enough. And
         some of the heavy, knee-deep underbrush quickly exhausted the
         dogs, especially my short-legged, 10-year-old American Water
         Spaniel. But the pointers provided close shots and the three
         German Shorthairs had enough leg to negotiate the thick
         stuff.                                           

         We thought we drove 450 miles to hunt where the birds were.
         Wrong. We had to drive 60 to 80 miles a day, often on rough
         dirt roads, to hunt four to six coverts. And because we had
         three dogs in crates, our party traveled in two vehicles on
         high-priced Canadian gas. (BTW, some of this outfitters bear
         stands are 90 minutes from camp.)

         We almost rented a long mini van so that we could make the
         trip in one vehicle. Lucky we didn't because the outfitter
         never told us that we had to supply our own 4WDs.
                                  
         One disgruntled hunter at camp mentioned that New Brunswick
         outfitters are still living off of New Brunswick's reputation
         for great woodcock shooting. He claimed that one of the
         sporting rags rated New Brunswick at number 10 for woodcock
         in North America. I asked my guide about this and he said it
         was true: American hunters haven't discovered that New
         Brunswick hunting isn't what it used to be--so they keep on
         coming. Of course it was the warm weather that had ruined our
         hunting, but I wonder if New Brunswick has gone downhill?
                
         Our young guide was in his second season as a guide. He was a
         good woodsman, but he sure didn't know much about birds. He
         never hunted woodcock himself and his grouse hunting is
         limited to birds on the ground or in trees--he never shot a
         bird on the wing! On my only other hunting trip our guides
         were bird hunters who owned trained dogs. They gave us a real
         education in woodcock hunting. We went home and applied what
         we had learned and had our best season ever. 
         
         In addition to his ignorance about birds, our guide had a
         certain lack finesse. When my friend was about to dispatch a
         crippled grouse, our guide grabbed this handsome bird and
         without hesitation, yanked the head off and flung it to the
         ground. Then he casually handed the bird back to its owner
         with a bare, bloody neck sticking from the carcass. Even the
         dogs were wide-eyed.
                
         But we could have done worse for a guide. One pair of hunters
         got an 82-year-old man who knew nothing about birds and never
         left the car. His only service was directing the hunters to
         the coverts using a road map. Once they were out of the car,
         the hunters were on their own. 

         When you're in unfamiliar territory, with 20-yard visibility,
         and the sun is behind the clouds, you can get lost within 100
         feet of your vehicle. So these two guys couldn't concentrate
         on hunting because they were constantly worried about getting
         lost. And they frequently trudged through unproductive areas
         like swamps and chest-high grass in search of good habitat.
         One day they encountered one woodcock, period. 

         Although these two fellows were absolutely disgusted with the
         guide service, they tipped the old man $60 for the week. And
         they refused to complain because, "It wouldn't do any good."

         Although the proprietor of Governor's Table (a fellow actually
         called "Hoot") likes to boast about all his faithful, repeat
         customers, any outfitter who cared about providing a quality
         hunt would never stick his clients with such a pitiful guide.
         For that reason, I'd never take a chance with Governor's
         Table.
            
         Back home, a sad consequence of our trip. My friend who
         introduced me to hunting purchased a finished Springer
         Spaniel. He trained daily and then sent the dog for two
         months of grad school with a trainer in Nova Scotia. The
         dog's flawless performance in New Brunswick marked his
         owner's first season with a truly polished bird dog.

         But when the dog returned from Canada he started limping. The
         vet's Xray showed a foot with three fractures. Apparently the
         same kind of fracture that afflicts race horses. Amazingly,
         the dog showed no discomfort at camp. He'll recover, but
         it'll take two months--almost the entire bird season! All
         that's left is three weeks of slow Massachusetts grouse hunting. 

         Dave and I hunted yesterday over my dog. The poor guy's eyes
         are sadder than any Spaniel's. 
                                             
         Doug                     

    A friend and I went out this past weekend for the Washington State
    modern firearms opener.  Right up front I'll say that the weather was
    horrible, the only buck I saw was 1 mile from camp (a 4 point) on the
    way in the night before the season opened, and one other 3 point
    hanging in a tree.  From a meat standpoint it was an unsuccessful hunt
    and it rained so much in two days we decided to come home yesterday
    rather than today as we had planned.   (Kenny, can you picture the
    weather?)  However, I decided to enter this note because what I saw was 
    absolutely incredible to me.  I wanted to share it with you.
    
    We hunted in the zone in Washington known as "Toudle" for the head
    waters of the Toudle River.  These head waters start at the Western
    edge of Mount St. Helens.  Now, I had seen Mt. St. Helens in National
    Geographic and I said to myself, "hmmmm".  I saw it a few times from a
    plane and was amazed enough to think to myself, "holy $h1t, look at
    that!".  But hunting right there next to it was phenominal.  I guess
    there is no way to describe it to you, but I'll try to relate what I
    saw.
    
    If you look at a map of the area, the volcano blew out to the North. 
    Everything ther was levelled, as you saw on the news.  We were hunting to
    the west from where we could look up the edge of the crater but we
    couldn't actually see into it.  We had driven up this valley to get
    here.  Now, try to picture a valley you saw almost anywhere.  At the
    bottom there is usually a deep "v" and usually some water flowing
    through it.  Well this valley we drove into was not a "v" at the bottom
    but was more of a wide flat area.  Mountain ridges line both sides.
    
    When I hiked to the top of a ridge and looked down at the valley floor,
    I was amazed.  What I saw was a valley that had been filled in with a
    lava slide.  It was incredible.  The valley rose up on a gentle angle
    to meet Mt. St Helens.  Even though 10 years have passed, you could easily
    see how that *massive* amount of lava flowed down to fill the valley.
    From where I was standing, I had a panoramic view of this valley.  I
    must have been looking at 50 miles or more of lava filled valley.  Yet
    the lava flow goes on for miles out of my site.  I could look up to the
    snow covered top of St. Helens.  I didn't know the elevation, but I was
    at 3500 ft.  The snow was still 1,000 ft. above my positon and the cap
    of St. Helens was covered.  I still couldn't believe that this entire 
    valley was filled with lava and this wasn't even the front side of the 
    volcano! 
    
    In the 10 years that have passed the valley has started to change.  To
    picture what it looked like ten years ago, picture a valley that has
    been dammed up and has filled maybe 20% of the way up with water.  Now 
    replace the image of water with gray volcanic ash, rocks and pumice.  It
    appears to be perfectly smooth.  Now try to imagine how that smooth
    valley of "mud" would look as water started to "cut" it.  For in the
    lava flow is a winding river; the Toudle.  It is just a stream at the
    top.  But it rushes hard and gray with silt.
    
    When you stand next to the Toudle it is unlike any river in Maine or
    most old established rivers.  Instead of having steadfast boulders
    that are fairly permanent and rarely move, rocks can constantly be heard
    tumbling down the river under the murkey water.  You can hear the
    "thud..thud...thud...ka-thudd" of them bouncing off of each other.
    It's as if all the rocks buried in this lava haven't even begun their
    journey down into the lower elevations of the state.  And the river is
    just starting to move some of the rocks on the surface.  Wow!  What a
    feeling to see this.
    
    Also, the lava flow is starting to regain life.  In large
    patches...maybe 100-200 square yards in area, 4-6 foot alders have
    taken root.  From the top of the ridge, you can see deer and elk moving
    through the alders and zipping from patch to patch of alder.  My friend
    says every year they get harder to see as the alders grow taller and
    wider.  He says in '84, they were astounded when they saw a blade of
    grass growing.
    
    But of all this, the most amazing thing I saw was this.  Just prior to
    St. Helens leting herself go, the valley had been logged.  Along the
    edges of the lava flow, tree stums protrude above the lava flow....the
    new valley floor.  On almost all of these thousands of stumps, rocks
    are piled up.  Rocks that range in size from little pebbles to big
    boulders sit in pyramids atop the stumps....like heavy snow makes
    pyramids on a stump.  At first I didn't notice.  But in looking for a
    stump to sit on to take a stand, I realized that rocks had been placed
    there.  And it dawned on me that no human took the time to carefully
    stack these rocks there.  But 10 years ago, rocks rained from the sky
    and piled on the stumps.  And 10 years later, they're still there!  Can
    you imagine that?
    
    No words of mine, or even a picture in National Geographic, can describe
    what this looks like.  It is something I never would have believed had
    I not seen it.  As we left yesterday, I made a promise to myself to
    come back one summer and hike to the edge of the crater and look out at
    the wilderness that really got pounded by this....this....this....amazing 
    show of force.   
    
    There is so much more to hunting than shooting deer.
    
    /brett  

    Brett, thank for entering this.  I've always wanted to travel up to St.
    Helens to see this, but I haven't taken the time to do so.  I've taken
    several business trips to Portland, OR, and I'm kicking myself for not
    setting a weekend aside to visit the volcano.
    
    Maybe next time.  If the weather's right and I can give enough notice,
    do you think you' be interested in showing a flatlander a little bit of
    God's work?
    
    Mark.

    
    	Interesting story Brett, thanks for putting it in!
    
    - Rob
    

 That was great! Thanks. I agree that hunting is alot more than shooting at 
game. It's the total outdoor experience. That was really worth entering. Thanks.
Appreciate it.

 The Doctah

    Thanks.
    
    As with anybody from DEC, if you're in the area, look me up.  If I
    can't get out to do something with you, I'll always try and help you 
    with any information I can help out with.
    
    /brett

I just got back from five days of chasing Bambi all over the Western
slope of Colorado and thought that I would share it with you.

We hunted in the Gunnison National Forest about 50 miles northwest
of Gunnison during the first combined elk-deer rifle season.  Bucks
had to be 3 points (Western count) or better and the bulls had to have
at least 4 points on one side to be legal.  No antlerless permits
were available for this season.

My 15 year old son, Steven, and I met my dad and three others in
Gunnison at about 10 a.m. Friday morning (the 12th).  The three
others were long time friends.  They included a man with whom my
dad has worked for about a zillion years, his son (who is 2 years
older than me, and a long-time friend), and my friend's 16 year old
son.  Thus, we had three generations of two families hunting together.
That alone made it special.

In short, we had a great hunt.  My dad, who is 64 and has never hunted
elk before, took a 5x4 bull Sunday morning.  I don't think that his
feet have touched the ground yet.  My friend (the one about my age)
took a nice 4 point mulie buck late Tuesday afternoon.  It had about
a 20 inch spread but was a heavy bodied deer.  It's field dressed 
weight was probably close to 200 lbs.

While that accounted for all of the game we took, we all saw a lot of
game and had our chances.  Late on opening day, I missed two long
range bucks (distances are deceiving out here).  I really don't know
how far off they were, but I'm guessing about 400 yds.  Unfortunately,
I estimated them to be about 300 yards, and my 140 gr. .270 loads
drop a ton between 300 and 400 yards.  Oh well, at least I got some
shots.

My son saw two black bears, and I saw bear tracks.  I also heard a
mountain lion scream on our first night there (we were tent camping).
If anyone every comes up with a good recipe for deer (or elk) sign
stew, let me know.  I know just the place to get the ingredients.  I
don't think that I have ever hunted in such game rich country.  I
saw 5 or 6 bucks (I couldn't tell for sure on one) and one legal
bull elk.  Unfortunately , it was running through the trees and I
only got a glimpse of it.

As you can guess, I really like this place.  The weather was warm
and there's more cover than you can imagine, so this made the hunting
kind of hard.  Also, it was our first time in the area, and we had a
lot to learn.  You can bet that I've already figured out where I will
be next year on opening morning.

Jerry

Re: <<< Note 737.27 by CSC32::J_HENSON "It's just the same, only different" >>>

>>If anyone every comes up with a good recipe for deer (or elk) sign
>>stew, let me know.

Are you talking about the big yellow ones that are along the roadways?

                                      Roak

   <<< Note 737.28 by PEAKS::OAKEY "Save the Bill of Rights-Defend the II" >>>

Re: <<< Note 737.27 by CSC32::J_HENSON "It's just the same, only different" >>>

>>If anyone every comes up with a good recipe for deer (or elk) sign
>>stew, let me know.

>Are you talking about the big yellow ones that are along the roadways?

                                      Roak

Roak,

Since I don't see a smiley face by your question, I'll assume that you
are serious.  The answer to your question is no, I'm not talking about
the big yellow ones along the roadway.  What I'm referring to is tracks
and droppings which were plentiful in the area which I hunted.  It was
meant to be a joke.  Guess I'm the one who should have put the smiley face 
on my note.

Jerry

Sory Jerry, I guess the sarcasam didn't make it though; yes, there should be
a :-) there...

                              Roak

The dangers of noting in a new file where people don't know you, or your sense
of humor!  That was my fault...

    Brett:
    
      I remember in May of 1980, three days after the eruption of Mt St.
    Helens I came out to go to work in a car that had a fine dust scattered
    on it. (I had washed it the day before)... That night I heard on the
    weather that the dust that you "may have noticed" on your car was
    indeed caused by the eruption of Mt. St. Helens...
    
     Funny thing is, this was 3000 miles away in New Hampshire...
    
     May old Harry Truman (proprietor of Spirit Lake Lodge) rest in
    peace...
    
    
    Joe

    
    
    
        GAME: WHITETAIL
        RACK: 4 points (one side broken off)
        Weight: 145
        Weapon: golden eagle camhunter set at 65 lbs
        Ammo: easton game getter 2216 32" savora S.S. 126gr
        Distance: 12 yrds broadside
        Distance traveled: 36 yrds
        Date: 10-15-90
        Place: Kissinger Mills Pennsylvania
    
    
                                                   Lee 
       still looking for the perfect 8 point to have mounted (archery shot)
    

	Three of us in our party had elk cow tags which we all filled.
	Area #681 in Colorado.  20" of snow opening day to give us all the
	tracking help we could use (and did).

	All taken with 30-06 Federal Premiums 180 BTs (two) and hand
	loaded Sierra Gameking 200 BTs.

	A great trip!

	AA

    Here is a sucess story, for the deer.
    
    reprint w/o premission from the Gazette Telegraph, Wed OCT 31,1990
    
     Deer tramples man to death in Texas: A 160-pound deer with eight-point
    antlers gored and trampled to death a man walking along a rual road in
    Caldwell, Texas, authories said.
     Wildlife officals said deer can become aggressive during mating season
    from mid-October to mid-November. Charlie Jackson Coleman, 61, of
    Caldwell, was searching for antique bottles along the side of the road
    when he was attacked Monday by the buck, which was still standing over
    the body hours later when sheriff's deputies arrived. The duputies said
    they shot the buck when it charged them.
     An autopsy determined Coleman's skull had been crushed and that he
    suffered more than 100 hoof and puncture wounds over his back, stomach
    and face, deputies said.
    
    ---
    Be careful out there !!!

    
    Report from the hunting trip I just returned from....like
    AA in reply .33, our party of 4 hunters had 3 cow tags and
    4 doe tags. We filled all the cow tags and all but one doe
    tag! A very successful hunt all the way around; the snow for
    opening day was a mixed blessing. Made tracking easy but
    trudging was difficult.....the high winds propelling the
    storm also made every draft in the tent painfully obvious :-).
    
    I gotta admit that after hunting MA/NH for years on end, the
    opportunity to hunt in CO was a lifetime dream.....they actually
    have animals to shoot at! :-) I was excited on Tuesday when I
    filled my doe tag with a good-size mulie doe that tried to
    skulk by me. I was positivly ecstatic on Thursday morning when
    I saw (and took) my first elk moving through the timber. I
    admired it for a second and then shot it dead...whadda rush!
    
    DAP
     
    
    
    

Our trip report from the edge of the Flat Tops is as follows:

Drove into the area to find about 6" of snow on the ground and more comming
down.  Got camps setup and did some scouting Friday afternoon.  Several elk
were spotted within a few hundred yards of camp.  Plan was to hunt them, but
other hunters had spooked them in the dark Saturday AM.  Saturday was still
snowing and 100 yards visibility.  Several elk were spotted Saturday and
Sunday but no shots.  Monday my partner, Ken, and I were hunting an open area
and a cow and calf tried to cross it.  We bagged them.  Ernie Velez, who
works here at CX03 bagged a very nice 7x8 point mulie.  His first deer and
a very proud hunter he was.  Ernie and his partner, Ronnie Smith from CX01,
were on their way in to carry out the deer and Ronnie bagged a 4 point bull.  
All four of these animals were in the same valley and had to be quartered and 
packed 2 miles back to camp.  We had more hunters in our camp, but they
didn't fill.  This was the first time we hunted this area and as things
have it we were in the wrong spot opening day.  Had we been in that valley
from the start more people would have filled, there were close to 100
elk in the 2 square mile valley the first couple of days of season.  Next year.

Gordon

    Well,  this one goes out to the boys who hunt opening day.  My buddy
    Earl and myself took off Friday Oct. 19th at noon to get to camp the
    day before the opener.  Camp was set up, stands dropped off that
    afternoon, nothing to do but drink beer by the fire and wait for a few
    more hours.  88 days of counting had finally come down to a few hours.
    Needless to say, sleep, what's that?  Got out of bed and got ready to
    hit the stand before daylight.  Earl was going to hunt a stand we call
    the triangle stand, built between three trees, and I was going to hunt
    some thick stuff between the hardwoods and pines.  Well, there I am,
    in my stand, nice and cool, and the sun starts hitting the top of the
    trees.  Beautiful morning.  Had deer walk within 15 yds of my stand,
    all does though.  Watched the wildlife.
    BOOM!!!!  It's 11:07 a.m., and that sound came from Earl and his
    triangle stand.  Heard a few stray shots in the area.  
    Well, by the time I got off my stand at 1:oo that afternoon and got to
    camp, they were putting the last of the quartered meat in the ice
    chest.  Earl was sportin the rack of a 4 pointer(270.124).  Well I be
    an ole dog in a room full a kitten.  Good size.  The only buck that
    weekend.
    
    Well, the following weekend was doe day weekend.  Earl brought his son
    to go huntin with us.  Earl and Earl III went to the triangle stand
    again, and I went in some hardwoods about 300 yds away from him.  It
    was my turn, shot a doe @6:15 pm.(270.123)  What an experience guttin a
    deer in the dark.  Oh by the way, Earl missed a shot at a doe that day.
    Hey Earl, you still get to meet a relative of mine.  UNCLE HENRY!!!!
    November 14-18 is our annual huntin trip.  Should be in full-rut by
    then.  That is all for now.
    
    Bob
    

    
    			1990 Montana Hunt
    
    
    I guess I'm ready to talk about this.  I'm not upset anymore.
    
    My party of five went to Yaak, Montana to hunt this year for 10 days.  
    We had combo tags which entitled us each to 1 elk, 1 deer and 1 bear
    plus all the grouse and rabbit you can shoot (daily limit of 12
    grouse).  For the dates we picked, cows were open for the 1st two days
    and then bulls only opened up for the remainder of our stay.  Both
    bucks and does were open the entire time we were there.
    
    Elk hunting was fair.  There was a week old snow on the ground of
    about 4 inches.  The tracks and sign we saw indicated one elk here, two
    elk there....one elk here, etc.  I didn't see the big herd
    concentration that I've seen along the MT/Idaho border to the South.
    As a result, our camp basically broke up into two groups: 3 guys
    hell-bent on getting and elk and ex-deccie Dave Cutler and I who
    decided a huge buck was more important than running around after
    invisible elk.
    
    We scouted around much of the first 3 days.  I have to say that the
    deer herd here is absolutely incredible!  In the week we were there, I
    personally counted 102 does.  I am not kidding you.  And I'm not
    talking about the same 6 does over and over.  
    
    So we're finding does like crazy.  I mean they're everywhere.  But we
    can't find a buck to save our lives.  We tried new spots and went back
    to old spots.  The rut starts in mid-November.  We were there from
    10/26-11/5.  
    
    Interestingly enough, there are both mulies and whitetails in the area
    and on several occasions, we saw whitetails actually running with
    Mulies.  We wondered if they had actually interbred.  I must say, when
    you compare mulies to whitetails, mulies are brain dead.  They will
    just stand around waiting to be shot while whitetails can eat a berry
    without going into a skittish panic.   
    
    On day 6, we were scouting way to the North.  We were so far from Yaak
    that we decided to go to Eureka, which is near the Canadian border, for
    gas.  It was noon and we decided we wanted to hunt a spot we had seen
    near Yaak, about an hour's drive, and headed back down South.  We were
    buzzing along this mountain pass, Dave andf I rambling on, when he
    shouts, "There's a deer! It's a buck!  There's 2 deer!  They're both
    bucks!  Stop the Truck!  Stop the truck!  STOP THE TRUCK!"
    
    Of course the road is scarcely two lanes wide with a sheer cliff, and
    no guardrail, on the outside and sheer face on the inside.  As we
    rounded a curve, I pulled over as much as I could.  His door flung open
    and he nervously started jamminf 7mm shells into his bolt action rifle. 
    I grabbed my .300 Weatherby and popped 3 rounds in.  We were both
    breathing heavy and fumbling while nervously whispered to each other.
    He was saying that the two bucks had huge racks and were head butting
    each other.  He claimed we were gonna "take em both".
    
    We started walking along the road back to where he had seen them.  This
    road, btw, gets a vehicle about once every 3 hours.  We sneaked along. 
    I found myself starting to hyperventilate and I had to stop to calm
    down.  We stpped every so slowly forward.  Dave stopped and pointed to
    where he thought they would be.  We both looked and looked.  Finally I
    saw movement.  On the ridge, about 50 yards above the road and 50 yards
    away, I saw bodies.  One was on the left of a huge broken tree.  I
    could only see him through the brush.  The other deer walked right out
    into my view.  I put the scope on him.  The first thing I noticed was
    the sun on his huge brown rack.  I didn't look at points.  I knew it
    was big by the length of that beam.  Instead, I immediately focused on
    the crosshairs which were right on the middle of his rib cage.  He was
    standing broadside.  It was the first wall-mount rack I ever had in
    my sights.
    
    I whispered to Dave, "I've got one in my sights".  From where Dave was
    standing, he couldn't see my target.  He must have been lookingat the
    other deer.  He replied, a bit too loudly, "Wait for the other one to
    step out in the open."  I wasn't shaking in the least.  Like a steel
    girder (surprising to me as nervous as I was, I held those crosshairs
    still on the rib cage.  One squeeze and that sucker is in the truck.
    
    As Dave spoke, the deer turned it's head and looked right at us.  He
    said to himself, "Oh, hunters".  And took two quick steps up the hill.
    I could see where he was at this point, but I didn't have a shot.  I
    watched as he quickly, but not in a run or trot, stode up the hill.  I
    could see his whitetail and his feet moving through the trees.  He was
    sort of broadside, but moving up the hill.  He walked between the
    trees.  I followed his form with the crosshairs waiting to get a shot.  
    I didn't want to shoot and chance missing an open shot.  I patiently
    followed him right up and over the hill.  He disappeared.  The other
    one was gone as well.  I put the safety on and lowered my rifle.  I
    looked at Dave, who said, "You shouldda shot him."
    
    Huh.  I can't tell you what that was like.  I was still replaying it in
    my brain last week as I sat at my desk.  The good news is that Dave
    shot a fork the day before we left.  I was thinking of shooting a doe
    on the last afternoon just so I'd have some venison, but I only saw one
    small mule an hour before shooting light ended on the last day.  Of the
    5 of us, only Dave shot a deer.  The other guys had seen as many does
    as us and one buck.  A shot from a 44 S&W missed him.  No Elk were seen
    or taken.  
    
    The moral:  Shoot.
    
    I liked the area for deer.  If I had it to do again, I would go back
    after Novemebr 15th.  The rut is in full swing and the locals say that
    4 and 5 point (western) deer can be seen running across clear cuts
    chasing does.  With the amount of deer that are there, you can bet
    there are some trophies on the hoof.
    
    I would go back next week, but with my wife due in 6 weeks........
    
    *sigh*
    
    /brett

    Well Brett, I'm glad to hear that going off with Dave is STILL
    an adventure!
    
    Mark,

 The Story of My Life,,,,, If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at 
all.....

 I'll start with yesterday the 12th of November and work back from there.

 As I was walking out at about noonish to get some chow one of the guys that 
works in the pit I hunt in was working the loader off of the side of the 
dirt road loading a truck. I waved to him as I walked past and he waved back 
and was making some hand gestures which I took to mean "where's the deer?? still
out back???", and I nodded "yup" waved again and kept walking. Hadn't seen a 
thing all morning. Wind chill was around -10 degrees and I was froze.

 Well, he stopped by the house later that afternoon and told me that if I'd
have turned around and looked in the direction he was gesturing to that I 
could have dropped the "biggest doe I've ever seen".

 Ernie said it came out of the brush about a "hundred feet behind you on 
your left as you was walking away and stood BROADSIDE right in the middle of 
the road between me an' you till you went out of sight around the corner, then 
walked off towards the swamp".

 He said he was off to the right and out of the way gunning the loader and 
yelling at me at the top of his lungs but that I didn't turn around. He said 
it was a "meat on the table" shot if he'd ever seen one.

 Ho hum,,, Ernie did say that he'd fix the horn on the loader... :-) If he'd 
have had a horn blowing I'd have probably turned around.

 Had to skip Sunday on account of chores around the house... Grrrrr.

 Saturday the 10th I sat up in a tree on the Loggy Bayou portable tree stand 
(the greatest thing since sliced bread!) I'd picked up the night before,, 
hadn't been up there for more than 20 minutes and then watched 2 deer, (does) 
for over an hour that refused to come closer than about 150-200 yards and 
nonchalantly quartered away and further out of range.
 Range was too far for a reliable hit with a 12 ga. slug... Wish the area 
allowed rifles... Got soaked to the skin when it started to rain so went 
home...Wet, cold and discouraged but still hopeful now that I got a new toy 
to play with... (The tree stand).

 Friday the 9th I didn't actually "see" the deer, because it was too thick 
but I could see the tops of the whips moving as they moved through them. High 
point of Friday was scaring the bejeebers out of a guy who I'd been watching 
for about an hour and 300 yards that didn't see me sitting there who walked up 
to within 20 feet before I cleared my throat to announce my presence. 
I loved it... He was a tourist, errr, out of state hunter from Mass. :-)

I hate sitting on the ground. So,,,,, I bought a tree stand.


 Opening day Wednesday the 7th of Nov. at approx 5:15PM I saw the biggest 
buck I've ever seen in the woods wave bye-bye to me as I jumped him coming 
out of the swamp. I spooked him no more than 50 yards from where I was on 
stand and the track said he was heading right for me. (read that as I should 
have sit still for a few more minutes). It was getting dark enough that he 
blended in perfectly with the whips and brush color so that I didn't risk a 
shot not being able to clearly see his body outline and also not being able to 
pick a good spot through the brush for a shot. The flag stood out like a sore 
thumb but risking a shot wouldn't have been smart or ethical.
I suppose I coulda shot being as the "fever" was not a problem and positive 
recognition had been made, but the "white mittens" thing jumped right up at me 
so I lowered the gun. I figure I followed the flag for at least 15 to 20 
seconds with the sights before I called it off.. It would have been about a 
40 yard quartering away right to left shot had I taken it.

 If I'd have had a tree stand, he'd have been dead meat.

 *Sigh* I guess there's always this coming weekend... :-)



   Corky

    Well,
    
    4 days in the woods looking for mr. buck, lights were on, but no one
    was home.  Saw plenty of rubs, a few scrapes, but no deer.  I hunted
    one particular scrape for four days.  He had not come by to check it
    out, but a doe did come by to leave him a smell that he is looking for.
    Where was he?
    
    Camp was great though.  Plenty of beer, good food, and a good fire. 
    Plus a little bit of the George Dickel(whisky).  I will be back the
    weekend after thanksgiving for that buck, unless someone else gets him
    first.  My buddy Earl, he was hunting another scrape up the ridge about
    1/4 mile or so away, nothing for him either.  But I will let him speak
    for himself.    Hey Earl,  speak!
    
    Good time though.  Maybe next time.
    
    bob  :>    :>         :>         :>              :>              :>
            :>      :>         :>         :>               :>            :>
    

    
    Spent the first eight days of blackpowder season in NH looking for
    ole mossy horns. I saw a little skipper (about 50-60 lbs)  opening
    day but just couldn't stand to see a deers weight double when that
    385 grain lead bullet hit it. And a good thing I didn't. My hunting
    partner nailed a real nice spike the next day and I wouldn't have
    ever heard the end of it. Too many big deer got hung from the camps
    meat pole this year. One of the other hunters in the next cabin
    over from us nailed two, thats right, two coyotes with his 50 cal
    muzzle loader within 15 minutes of each other. Must of been a mated
    pair. Those dogs would have been bigger than the skipper. I think
    I would rather have shot the dogs anyway.
         The only bummer of the trip was I found a big (800-900 lb class)
    moose someone had killed and took just the antlers off. There was
    talk of a big moose that someone had arrowed durning the moose season
    that wasn't recovered. This was probably it. At least if that was
    the case it wasn't killed just for the antlers. Its just to bad
    all the same. Kind of took my want to hunt out of me for the rest
    of the day.
       Tomorrow starts MA season so I'll get at least a couple of days
    to get me a nice buck.........
    
    sjn

    Man has it been busy around here since getting back from hunting!! I`ve
    finally got a chance to report my second deer in as many years. Also
    the second of my career. I`ve only went deer hunting 3 times, so it`s 
    still new, but I think I`m catching on. Been a small game hunter for
    years, but this deer huntin` stuff is addictive!!!
    
     Went back to Wyoming again this year, and am happy to report in with 
    a 4 pt buck. Not the biggest one out there, but not bad. Our camp took 
    9 bucks out of nine hunters. Two 8 pts, one 5 pt, three 4 pts, & three 
    spikes. We were hunting in the northeastern corner of Wyoming, about 
    50 miles north of Sundance, in the Black Hills. We drive out from
    Michigan, so this is a big trip for all of us, but definatly worth it. 
    I shot my deer on the third day of the trip. One shot at about 85 yards
    with a Winchester 30-06. Most shots out there are around 200 yards, but 
    I happened to sneek up on one. 
    
     Can`t wait for next season!!!!! 
    
    
    				jeff b.  
    

	  Well, another season has come and gone. This one turned out
	to be a fairly successful one for our hunting party. The party
	I hunt with consists of 3 people: my father, my brother-in-law
	(bil), and me. We are occasionally joined by a couple of tag-
	alongs, but we don't consider them part of our party. The 3 of
	us hunt together all the time, and we work very well together.
	We all saw plenty of deer this year, but we certainly put in our
	time in the woods. We hunted Saturday and Sunday of the first 2
	week, then Wednesday-Saturday of the last week. In the woods by
	first light, and out after sundown.

	  The first weekend saw rain on Saturday, then a heavy snowfall
	Saturday night. Sunday morning we were greeted by 15-18" of new,
	wet, heavy snow. I saw 2 deer Saturday (both doe), dad saw 11 (all
	doe), and bil saw 6 (all doe). Sunday we were planning on driving
	our favorite ridge (on private land, approx 600+ acres, hunting by
	permission only, only a certain few are allowed to hunt there) in
	the morning, which has become part of our ritual, and is usually
	a sure way to see deer, especially after a fresh snow. One guy posts
	on the west end of the ridge (dad) while the other 2 of us push 
	across it. 2/3 of the way across I spot a running deer, and clearly
	see it is a legal buck (spike horn). Got off a running shot, but 
	apparently I never touched it. It disappeared down a gully and I ran
	to a position where I could get a glimpse of it as it went over the
	ridge. I didn't see it come out, but spotted a deer standing in a 
	thicket, approx 60yds away. Couldn't see the head, so I didn't know 
	if it was the same deer, so I didn't shoot. Then I spotted my bil,
	who had jumped the deer, come over the ridge. He saw the deer, and
	was able to get a shot. As the deer started running again, I raised
	my rifle to get a shot, when all of the sudden there was another
	deer there... another buck, approx 6-pointer, running towards my bil.
	It ran right between us, and I was unable to get a shot (since it was
	right between us)... frustrating!!!! I hollared to my bil that there
	was one coming his way, but he was so intent on the first buck that
	he never even saw the other one. It disappeared down over the ridge,
	as I helplessly watched it go. Anyway, the first one stopped again,
	and bil dropped it. It was a spikehorn, field dressed at 103lbs. I
	continued down the ridge to pick-up dad, and jumped another deer. It
	ran within 30yds of dad, and yes, it too was a buck. Unfortunately
	the wind was blowing and it was snowing, along with the fact that 
	dad had been there for about 2 hours by now.... anyways, his scope
	was packed with snow, and he watched as the buck bounded down the 
	ridge, out of sight. In all, we pushed 4 deer off that ridge that 
	morning, and 3 were bucks. Good day!!!

	  The next weekend was fairly uneventful. Weather wasn't the greatest
	(more rain), but did see a few deer. Also saw some bear tracks and
	droppings. Very little snow left.

	  Took Wednesday of the last week (day before thanksgiving) off, and
	planned to hunt hard the rest of the week. Saw a few deer on Wednesday,
	but nothing too exciting. Thanksgiving morning the plan was to hunt til
	about 11:00am. We had a few tag alongs that day. I ended up seeing 8
	deer (5 doe, 3 unidentified), dad saw 11 deer and a bear (50ft away,
	but bear season had already ended), and all of the others saw deer as
	well. Friday morning it was just dad and I. We decided to try a diff-
	erent spot. Hunted in that spot til about 11:00am, but saw nothing and
	decided to go back to our hot-spot. Got back into the woods around 
	12:00 or so. Decided to slowly work our way to the top of our fav-
	orite ridge. Dad was to post in his usual spot, and I was to eventually
	make it across the ridge, and we would meet at 3:00pm where dad was 
	posting. Jumped a small doe on the ridge about 1/2 across. Just before
	pushing thru a stand of hemlocks (where we usually push the deer from)
	I heard a deer go.... It sounded like it was headed down the side of
	the ridge so I ran to edge to get a look. Apparently it took a left
	turn and headed for my dad. As soon as a realized the deer had headed 
	for dad's direction, I stopped and waited for a shot, hoping one would
	be a buck. Turned out to be 3 deer. First one down was a small doe. 
	The next two came down together, and one was a buck. Two shots later
	(deer was really motivating at that point) the deer lay dead. It was a
	spike-horn, field dressed at 108lbs. Not bad, 2 spike-horns off the 
	same ridge. We started dragging at 3:30pm, and were back at the truck
	at 4:45. Jumped 3 more deer while dragging it out.

	  Saturday morning the plan was to drive the next ridge over. Since dad
	and bil already had their deer, they were only along for driving pur-
	poses. Both carried weapons, but neither would shoot another deer. 
	Plenty of coy-dogs around though. On this day, my brother (not a real
	motivated hunter, you could say) decided to join us. We got a late
	start (brother hates to wake up early) and I was not too happy about
	it. Finally got to the top of the ridge around 7:30am, brother and I
	at the west end, dad and bil driving from the east. Foggy as hell and 
	mixture of snow and rain. No deer during the drive, as dad a bil met us
	at 8:30am. I wanted to push thru one last section of hemlocks that were
	off the very west end of the ridge since I had seen 6 beds in there the
	previous weekend. Sent dad a brother to the power line that runs north-
	south in the valley at the end of the ridge, thinking that anything 
	driven off would cross there. Gave them till 9:00 to get down there and
	situated and then bil and I started moving. Spotted bil up above me as
	I was entering the thick stuff, and he signaled that he would go a 
	little higher. About 1 minute later I heard a whistle at about the same
	time I heard a crash off to my right. Deer was headed straight at me,
	running a full speed. Bil had jumped it, but didn't see the head and
	whistled to let me know it was coming. It was immediately obvious that
	it was a legal buck, but getting a shot in that thick stuff was going
	to be a problem. Unfortunately it was headed away from the spot my
	brother was supposed to be posted. Just as it was about to bound over
	a clump of sh*t, I was able to get a shot. Deer was quartering away by 
	this time, and about 25yds away. Aimed high on the shoulder and let
	one fly from my Model 94 30-30. I was quite confident that I had hit it.
	I went to the spot that I had seen it disappear and looked for blood.
	Hair and blood all over the ground. Looked slightly to my right, and
	there it was in a pile... stone dead. Yeah!! As it turns out, I hit it
	in the neck and it dropped on the spot. 1-1/2 hours later my bil and I
	were back at the truck (dad and brother continued to hunt). Weighed in
	at 96lbs. I was a little embarrassed by the size (or lack of...), but
	it was one of those no-time-to-think type of shots. I doubt I would
	have passed it up anyways, a legal buck is a legal buck. If only I 
	could have stetched it to 100lbs..... ;-)

	  Of the 3 bucks taken, all 3 were spike-horns. Mine was the smallest
	(but has the longest spikes, 7-8 inches) at 96lbs, bil was next at
	103lbs, and dads was "largest" at 108lbs. All in all, I would consider
	this a very successful season!!! This was the 3rd time in the last 6
	years that all 3 of us have scored in the same season (last time it was
	an 8-point 126lb'er, a 7-point 154lb'er (mine), and a 8-point 205lb'er).
	And this one was my first deer in 3 years. Finally, the drought is 
	over.....

	-Ron-
    

    HI,
    
    By the sounds of it, you guys must be hunting in sme sort of wild life
    preserve. There are plenty of deer where we hunt here in Canada, but
    the only places I know of where you can see deer in the kind of
    consentration you are talking about is in the farm fields of southern
    Ontari..
    
    Les

    Les,
    
      If you were referring to my note (.44), no, we were not on a 
    wildlife preserve. We were hunting on a 600 acre, privately owned
    farm in Northern Vermont. We generally hunt on this farm and on
    the ridges surrounding it. All total this year I saw 20+ deer during
    rifle season. I have talked to plenty of people this year who hunted
    all year and saw far fewer deer than I did. I have hunted this area
    (not just this farm, but other surrounding areas as well) for the
    15 years that I have been hunting, plus my dad has hunted the area
    for over 25 years. We know the area well, and we certainly put in our
    time to find these deer. We know their "hang-outs", their habits, where
    they are most likely to be during certain weather, ect...  I've talked
    to others hunting this area who see far fewer deer than we do inthe
    course of the season, but they certainly don't put in the time and
    effort that we do. It is not unusual for this 600 acre area to produce
    6-7 bucks per year. In fact, we know of at least 6 taken (including our
    3) this year.
    
      All 3 of the deer we took this year were from high on the ridges
    where there is plently of feed and cover (read acorns and hemlocks).
    This farm also has a large swampy area (beaver ponds, ect..), hayed/cut
    fields, apple trees, and other things that deer thrive on. In other
    words, it is a prime area for deer. This, coupled with the fact that
    the farmer only allows our group and a very few other to hunt his land
    (read: little hunting pressure) makes this a great spot for deer.
    
    -Ron-

    
    	Ron,
    		Sometimes it's not how many deer you see or get shots at,
    it's the position you're in when you do see a deer that counts.  If
    you can see a lot of deer and see them before they see you, then that's
    great.  When I bowhunt, I normally don't hunt to see loads of deer. I
    hunt to see a decent deer (if it's the only one I see, then fine), and
    to get a damned good shot.  This year I saw a total of 8 deer between
    Bowhunting in Vermont, hunting in Maine, and rifle hunting in VT.
    One of the deer I saw bowhunting was the same deer twice, so I actually
    only saw 7 deer.  I was in position to shoot two of them and should
    have had a third in Maine if I'd been paying a little closer attention.
    I ended up with two, the first time I've ever done that;  A spike with
    the bow and a spike with the rifle, both in VT.  
    	I don't know about the rest of the noters in here, but I hate 
    seeing a big ass go over the bank not knowing what it was.  That did
    happen to me this year on one occasion when I tracked several deer down
    a mountain and ended up bumping into ONE of them.  This was a very big
    deer, but the leaves were frozen and crunchy, not a good day to bump
    into a deer.  I never got a look at the deer's head.  I would have
    been more than happy to have seen none of the others and just gotton 
    a good look (and probable shot) at that one deer.
    
    - Rob
    

      That was more or less what I was getting at Rob. We hunt an area
    that we know holds deer. We know where the feed is and we know where
    the cover is. We saw a lot of Buck sign on these 2 particular ridges,
    lots of rubs and a few scrapes, so these were the areas we concentrated
    on. It just happen to be a ridge where there was an abundent amount of
    acorns and cover. We knew from the rubs and scrpaes that there were
    "decent" deer in the area. The fact that we saw lots of deer in these
    areas was a bonus. I would have settled for the bucks only, but as it
    turned out, we saw plenty of doe as well. In fact, we also saw a bear
    on the same ridge, hanging around the same source of food that we saw
    most of the deer in, and in fact the same part of the ridge we took two
    of the bucks from.
    
      We work to put ourselves in a good position to get a shot at the deer
    we see. For instance, during rifle season the 3 of us work together as
    much as possible. We know which areas to push thru, and we know the
    most likely escape route a deer will take. It took us a few years (for
    example) to figure that on this one particular ridge, if we pushed deer
    off, the doe were likely to take one escape route while the bucks would
    take another. Now, whenever we drive that ridge, we have one person
    posted in that certain spot where they are going to see the buck we
    push off the ridge. We do our homework, and try to (as you said) put
    ourselves in the right position so that when we do see the deer, we
    have a shot. We try to cover all the angles. I have taken deer while
    still-hunting on my own as well as while working together with my 
    hunting partners.
    
      If there were no buck signs inthe area, we would be much less likely
    to hunt there.
    
    -Ron-

    Ron,
    
    Sounds like you have yourself a fine area to hunt, more important you
    know the value of carefull scounting. It always amazes me on the amount
    of guys who get up on open day and begin stumbling around over some
    terrain that they have never even seen before. 
    
    We get one or two of these a year in our camp, even though we try to
    dicourage this sort of thing, just that there always seems to be one of
    us who does not have the guts to tell some buddy of his that unless he
    is serious about hunting and putting in the time that it requires not
    to bother. They usually just end up spoling the hunt for the rest of
    the guys with their stumbling around, as they usually do not have the
    patience to stay put where uyou told them to sit. Sounds like a pet
    peeve of mine, it is.
    
    The rate of consisten success in getting your deer, as you obviously
    know is directly proportional to the amount of time you put in in
    scouting out your hunting area, otherwise it's all luck.
    
    LEs

    Boy does this conversation hit home!  We have an individual who hunts
    with us who cannot sit still.  He is always wandering around the area.
    This year his fiance decided she wanted to hunt also.  No problem, so 
    far.  Ive hunted this area for 5 yrs now and know it pretty well.  Well
    my "buddy" decided that he and his girlfried should have the best stand
    in the area.  I wasn't going to hunt because I had filled my tag during 
    bow the day before, so I ttold him he could have my stand, even though
    there were others in the party.  To make a long story short they
    abandoned the stand at 7:15 becase his girlfriend was bored!.  Soon
    after that 12 deer ran through the area, |I know because I pushed them.  
    What pissed me off was that I could of had someone who really 
    wanted to hunt on the stand, instead, I listened to this guy complain
    and finally gave in.  Live and learn.
    
    Jeff

         The Worcester (Ma.) Gazette reports that the largest whitetail
    shot in Massachusetts on opening day was taken by a Maynard hunter,
    just a few miles from the Mill, in the suburbia of Stow, Ma.
    
         The buck tipped the scales at a dressed weight of 215 lbs.
    
         Just goes to show that the big deer aren't all located out in
    Berkshire County!

    It's not always how much scouting you do that counts...  Luck still
    plays better than a 80% role in seeing a decent buck or for that matter
    any buck.
    
    Myself and a friend of mine have got this area where we hunt pretty
    much pegged (or so we thought)... Rubs/scrapes/beds/swamp/thick/lee
    side of the hill/laurels etc... perfect deer habitat... Bowhunted there
    out of a Loggy stand... and was fortunate to see and get a shot at 2
    bucks.  Problem with this area is that come shotgun season all bets are
    off... I had 2 guys come right by my stand at 5:45 AM stumbling through
    the thick brush with no flashlight...  no topo map and no compass...
    Hadn't been in the area before either... Yahoo's ruin it...
    9:30 AM same 2 guys cruise by on their way out... they knew I was there
    but not exactly where cause it was dark when I first saw them.
    
    It's a damn shame, you don't see a soul during the bow season,
    come shotgun the place looks like a pumpkin patch...
    
    Fra
    
    

    
    	RE:  Ron, I didn't mean to sound like I was jumping your case,
    	cause I wasn't.  I wanted to point out that sometimes all it takes
    is that one deer and you'll have him.  Too many of us listen to stories
    like yours where somebody will see loads of deer and we might not see
    as many and it get's discouraging.  Bottom line is hunt well and the
    time will come.  I do believe you guys are good hunters and do your 
    homework.  I used to hunt with someone who thought you weren't a man
    unless you saw 5 deer a day.... Now in VT, that's tough!  maybe in
    the 60's you could regularly.
    
    	FRa, I know what you mean about Yahoos.  I have gone through a
    very long dry spell with a rifle.  I think I spend lots of time in
    the woods and hunt hard, but, you know, sometimes with a rifle you
    can do everything wrong and still get a deer.  Consistant hunters
    do it right all the time.  You'll have your day.  Yahoos still get
    deer, even though it doesn't seem at times like they deserve one.
    Sometimes these guys we call yahoos are beginners too, just trying
    to figure out what it's all about.
    
    happy hunting, Rob (who is suffering from PHS, "post-
    			hunting syndrome")   

    What happened to the injured doe?

    Ah, good.  It seemed odd that you left her wandering around with a
    fatal injury.
    
    Glad you got your deer in spite of the odd circumstances.  It sounds
    like my kind of luck.
    
    ;-)
    
    /brett

    Here in Britain the Red Deer Commision (a quasi-government body) has
    decreed that 50,000 red deer hinds should be culled by the end of the
    year to avoid massive deaths from starvation and the associated damage
    to the herds when no deer can find adequate winter food.
    
    So to help out my neighbour/friend/landlord I went with him and a few
    friends on Friday: we flew by private plane up to Northern Scotland
    where we were met by a Land Rover to take the four of us to the estate
    whence after a brief lunch we went out with the Supacat (a 6x6
    semi-amphibious vehicle) to do a recce and then came back and sighted
    in our rifles.
    
    Saturday we were out before dawn and stayed out for 8 hours, returning
    in the dark, ditto Sunday, whence we flew home arriving in the early
    hours of this morning - just in time to head off to the course I'm on
    this week.
    
    This was a cull rather than a hunt: the estate's head stalker was along
    with our party (ie three of us) and his deputy took out the other
    party. The stalker nominated the target and we were looking for the
    weaker animals - not the stronger trophy animals.
    
    Anyway I got three deer on Saturday and two on Sunday with a total of 9
    shots (one clean miss - put it down to nerves, three double taps and
    two single shots.)
    
    With so many deer being culled I'm told venison is a glut on the market
    with wholesale prices dropping rapidly - most buyers will stop
    accepting deliveries if this goes on, but they have to be culled for
    their own long term good.
    
    /. Ian .\

    
    
      Well, Murphy's Law is prevailling on my hunting front, at least
    so far.  The way I see it, Winchester owes me one 4 pt. buck!
    
      I hiked into a remote area where I found multiple scrapes,rubs
    and sign all around this spot. Took me 45 min. to hoof in, but the
    sign and vantage point looked worth it. The area was a natural funnel
    in that the deer had only one easy way to pass through.
       
      Ther are steep ridges on both sides of a wide and long catail
    swamp, then the swamp narrowed to a brook and on one side the ridges
    drop to a saddle providing a pass to cross the big swamp.  I situated
    myself on this saddle, elevated and well hidden from anything
    approaching either side.  At about 1:00 PM. I spot a deer working
    along the base of the swamp, heading in my direction, off about
    150+ yds. Useing my binoculars I verify that it a 4 pointer still
    heading closer to me all the time.  My heart starts pounding and
    my hands get stiff, can't even take the safety off, too-syched!!
      Luckily he was moving slow and I had time to calm down and plan
    out a strategie, which was: Safety off sighting right at him, if
    he turns towards the opposite ridge and doesn't cross the stream
    then I'll have a 50 yd. shot which I prefer not to take with a slug
    thrower, however, if he crosses the stream then he'll come right
    below where I'm posted, offering a nice close shot.
    
      Well, he did cross the stream, I picked a spot I knew he would
    step into and steadily pointed the gun, waiting for a deer's shoulder
    to appear.  Suddenly there it is, I carefully concentrate ( I'm
    not going to blow this shot! ) , he steps into the opening, my sight
    lines up just behind the shoulder, I carefully squeeze the trigger
    only to hear CLICK !!!!!!!!! DUD SHELL !!!! DAM*%$ 
    
      Now Mr. Buck, only 50 ft. away hears this CLICK and says EXIT
    STAGE RIGHT >>> MACH III >>>>>>>
    
      I have a pump, so I quickly ejected the dud and cranked in the
    next shell but this deer is boogieing now. I threw 2 lousy shots
    at him on the fly, but he used the ridge to his advantage and ran
    around in the direction he came from but hugged the inside of the
    base of the ridge, not giving me good shots.
    
      I was so POed I wanted to throw my gun no the ground and stomp
    on it! I've been waiting ten years for an oppurtunity like this,
    each year comeing closer, seeing more deer every year etc. but
    this time I got robbed!
    
      Like I said, Wincheter Ammo/div. owes me one buck!
    
      Oh well, got 2 more days of shotgun season left, then 3 days of
    muzzle loader.  I just hope my luck changes, God, it can't get much
    worse, can it?
    
                          << Jeff >>

    
    re .59
    
    That's really too bad...I feel sorry for you.  Do you still have the
    shell?  How about mailing it back to Winchester with a letter
    describing the event...it would be interesting to see what they have to say.
    
    He's still out there is he not?  From the sounds of your area maybe
    there's even a bigger buck out there....
    
    good luck.
    
    Kevin

    re .59
    
    I can simpathize with your plight.  I too had a misfire this year.  The 
    first weekend of rifle season I jumped a dear about 30 yards away while
    still hunting.  I raised the gun and CLICK.  My first thought was, "Did I
    load it?"  I had so I chambered another round but the dear was gone.  I
    decided to do a fast walk to where the deer was and see if it was watching
    me.  Another deer then took off which I promptly missed as it bounded over
    the hill.  I most likely would have missed the first deer but who knows.

    I was using a brand new box of winchester 308 PP 150 grain.  I wonder if
    they had a bad batch?  Any other winchester shooters out there might ask
    themselves if this could happen to them,  If you are interested, I can get
    the lot number off of the box.

	RE Misfires,,,,,,


	When I get ready to hunt I make double sure every thing is in order and
works. Did you folks ever think of testing each shell to make sure it works
before you go out???

		^	  ^
	       ~~~~~   ~~~~~
		(+)	(+)
		  `  |	      <---- he made me say it, honest!!!!! ;^) 
		   () ()
		\	 /
		 \------/

	What a bummmmmmmeeeerrrrrrrrrrrr "click".

	Steve

    
    
      In reply to .62, - NO, I hadn't given the testing of each cartridge
    before using much thought, But I think I'd be interested if I could
    just find a helper to stand still enough so the apple didn't fall
    off his head whilst I shoot at it! :-)  :-)
    
       Why Steve,,,,,,, Are You offfering,,,, maybe,,, TO HELP !!!!!
    
                           THANKS !!!!  What a PAl !!!!  :-) :-)
    
    
                        << Jeff >>
    

    I have been invited to a game rufgees (sp) in alabama for a two day
    hunting trip. what i need is some information on how to find the best
    spot to hunt we can't go in to scout the place out. this part of the of
    the country has no snow on the ground. i leave on 01/23/91 for the
    hunt. we can only shoot bucks. the rut season will be in progrees at
    the time. they claim to have anything from 180 lbs to 200lbs bucks
    running around. all the advice would be helpful.

    Since you're going in 'pot luck' the best you can do is look for 
    some good rut sign, like a line of fresh scrapes, and post yourself
    downwind 75 to 100 yards. Then wait. And wait. And...
    
    Or you might try a few short drives, if you can find an area that 
    deer might funnel through when pushed.
    
    Good luck, at least you're going to a real promising area, which
    sometimes works better than scouting the heck out of a dry spot ;-)

>    the rut season will be in progrees at the time. they claim to 
>    have anything from 180 lbs to 200lbs bucks running around. all 
>    the advice would be helpful.

I certainly don't want to dispute anything that the local people might 
have said, but I wonder about bucks being in the rut.  How far south 
are you going to be in Alabama?  I'd imagine you'd just about have to 
be hunting the Gulf of Mexico to get a rut this late in the season.   

I hunt middle Georgia which has about the same climate as Alabama.  
The heaviest rutting period is usually about the 2nd week in November, 
depending on a lot of factors including the weather, local deer 
populations, etc.  That put this year's peak rut about Nov. 9.  If a 
doe didn't breed the first time, she'll come into season about 28 days 
later, so that puts the next one at Dec. 7.  If she still didn't 
breed, another 28 days brings what's probably the last cycle for the 
year.  That means the "last chance" rut would be around Jan 4.  You'll 
be there Jan. 23 which seems to be much later than the last rut even 
taking into account local population variations, temperature, etc.

Alabama's season/rules are a "buck-a-day" if I remember right, meaning 
you can take 1 buck per day.  This liberal system generally equates to 
a high population, and high populations generally mean lower sizes and 
weights.  This means I also wonder about the 180-200+ range...

Again, I'm not in the position to dispute anything that someone told 
you because I don't know the local conditions.  It's entirely possible 
that this game refuge actively manages for trophy deer and that the 
rut is actually in full swing.  I just hope you got the info from 
someone you know and trust...

Scott

    the info that i received was from the fish & game dept. that runs the
    hunt. the place is closed to all hunters except during special times of
    the year. they opened it for two days for bow season and that was the
    weekend of january 04, 1992 and then they opened it for two days on the
    weekend of january 11, 1992 for muzzel loaders. they closed it last
    weekend and this weekend its for rifle. i wish we would have had it
    last weekend because they got 5 inches of snow. the area that i'm
    hunting is between birmingham and montgomery alabama. the reason they
    claim to have big bucks in the area is they only allow hunting in those
    time frames and you are allow only to take one buck for the two days. i
    don't doubt you on the rut season because i'm new in this area and i
    really don't know when the rut season starts in the south. i will be
    leaving on thursday to check out the area and see if i can find any
    signs so i will be ready for friday morning. we heared that the temps
    will be around the high 50's during the day and 30's at night so we are
    camping in the campgrounds so we can get a early start. some of the
    guys i'm going with thinks this is crazy becuase its to cold for them
    but since  i'm from new hampshire it doesn't bother me. the fish & game
    dept even sent us a topo map of the area and all the rules. they have
    some rules that i don't agree with but thats okay for example you can
    not clean your deer in the woods you have to bring it to the weight
    station first then you can clean it.
    
    	24 more hours to go. i'm still looking for more advice for this
    area .