Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    There's only one reason for logic like that...STUPIDITY!!!  plain and
    simple.
    
    You would think they would realize that by not letting the hunter have
    the dog is not going to stop hunting.  It will only stop what may have 
    been the possible recovery of wounded game.  Tell me where the
    "humanity" is.  Like the motto says "Be a Conservationist, Use a
    Trained Bird Dog".
    
    Your story is not unbelievable.  I know a friend who in Burlington Vt
    experienced similar treatment from the Humane Society, another
    organization that is out to stop hunting.  When asked if he had any
    other pets he replied, yes...a black lab...they asked if it was used
    for hunting...he said yes...then they went on how they don't let people
    "adopt" dogs for hunting purposes.  Since his wife really wanted the
    dog, and she was not going to hunt with it, they let the "adoption" go
    through.  These whole problem is that they equate animals with people,
    and if you do that, then their logic is proper.
    
    Kevin who_believes_animals_are_here_for_us_to_use_..._but_not_abuse.  
                                                                        

   "It seems the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of
cruelty to Animals (MSPCA) would rather see a dog put to
death than let a hunter adopt it.
   "According to a published report in the Union-News, 
Springfield, Mass., Dennis Tonguary was refused an English
Springer Spaniel by MSPCA after he said the dog would  be
used for hunting. Mr.Tonguary said he figured that even if the
dog was not a great hunting dog, he and the dog could provide
companionship for each other while hunting in the woods.
   "Mary Beth Marquardat, manager of the Springfield SPCA
shelter said, 'We don't adopt out for hunting because MSPCA
is against sport hunting.'
   "According to published reports, the MSPCA kills over
5000 abandoned dogs every year."

The Wildlife Legislative Fund of America

    Maybe he should call the ACLU and sue these people for discrimination.
    
    Pepole like that are so rightous, they make me sick.
    
    Red

    	Notice that by the time you finish paying all their fees, that
    you're well on your way to the price of a purebred, if you buy from a
    breeder. You'd think that if they cared about the animals ,that they'd
    make adoption cheaper. But they believe that you shouldn't have a pet
    unless you have plenty of money, also if you do, you're prime to be
    hit up for contributions.
    
    	George
    P.S. I'm not a breeder, but I've bought dogs from breeders both in
    Mass. and Colorado.

    
    The money aspect is wrong. I bought a dog at the humane society, cost
    $50, 20 of which I got back after having him neutered.
    
    They are jerks, one of the questions was what will the dog be used for. 
    I don't plan on hunting with him, so they gave him to us. Never
    mentioned I hunt though.
    
    The fee is to help pay for food, medical bills etc. The basis for 
    the humane society is good, its the execution that is flawed.
    
    --Bob
    

    Isn't there a question of legality here?  It's my understanding
    that most humane societies are funded at least partially by
    public money.  If that's the case, how can they refuse to allow
    an adoption when the animal is to be used in a legal manner?
    Sounds like pretty good grounds for a lawsuit to me.  Are any
    of the local hunting/shooting clubs interested in taking the
    MPSCA on?
    
    Jerry
    

>    These whole problem is that they equate animals with people,
>    and if you do that, then their logic is proper.

I read somewhere that psychologists are worried about children these 
days because they've seen so many Bambi movies and cartoons which 
attribute human thoughts and emotions to animals.  This seems to fit 
right in.

Scott

    re: .5, how much did the neutering cost? When I've adopted from the
    humane society, they'd had the animal neutered and I paid what they
    said it cost. Having owned many dogs, (we have five now) I can tell you
    that what they charge much more for their care than the actual cost.
    
    	In any case, the humane societies are often run by people who are 
    either ignorant, or plain liars. They sponsor anti-hunting campaigns
    which are nonsense, (but much of the public believes them), and out
    here they oppose rodeo as cruel, but from their propaganda, it's
    obvious that either they've never been closer to a rodeo than what they
    think they've seen on TV, or they just plain lie. I've worked rodeos
    behind the chutes, and I know they're wrong.
    
    	It seems that they've been succesful in practically eliminating
    real cruelty to animals, (and I applaud that) so now they have to
    find some new causes to justify their existence. It's a shame.
    
    	George

    
    I dunno how many of you other Colorado noters saw the Gazette
    a couple of weeks back, but they did a highlight on the Rocky
    Mtn "Humane" Society.......and their fuhrer, Robin Duxbury (think
    I got that right).
    
    Talk about militant #%^&$#s!!!! I read the article with interest,
    being a newcomer to Colorado, and wanting to know the enemy. I got
    the distinct impression that the writer considered her a zealot
    and was probably just doing their job......the article was filled
    with quotes such as Robin being the "animal kingdom's uncompromising
    defender", and things like how she thinks about little else and
    converses only on the one subject. Methinks she blew the interviewer
    away by frothing at the mouth.
    
    Some memorable quotes include how the RMHS is done fighting things
    like the Air Force Acadamy hunt on a local level.....they are going
    for a state-wide hunting ban next year! And that the Dept of Wild-
    life is totally out of touch and needs to be replaced 100%. (Good
    luck, they seem pretty efficient to me). And last but not least,
    my favorite.....someething to the effect of "deer hunters get a
    thrill out of the kill. They are out there hunting because they
    know damn well its illegal to kill a human being, so they slake
    their thirst on the poor li'l deer".  If it wasn't so sick. it would
    be funny.
    
    Anyway, with painting to do, I needed some paper to put under my
    paint bucket....dripcatcher, you know. Therefore I cant provide
    direct quotes or furnish copies for anybody......poor li'l dear
    got all kinds of shit all over her mug.
    
    DAP
    

    
    re .8
    
    It cost me $110 for the neuter, the thing I think is funny is that if
    you consider an animal almost human, one of the worst things you could
    do to him is neuter him, personally I wouldn't like it.  
    
    The humane society did not require it but they wanted you to do it.
    
    So the cost of adopting the dog was $140 ($50 adoption fee, $20 back
    and $110 for neutering ), still doesn't seem the same as purebread from
    a kennel, but its alot for a "free" dog.
    
    --Bob
    

    	My purebred Great Dane female cost me $170 from a breeder in
    Tewksbury Mass. , and she had excellent bloodlines, and won best
    of breed in several shows. Two of the Australian Shepherds that we have
    now cost under $200 each from a two different breeders, and both have
    a wall full of ribbons and trophies.
    
    	George

    re. .10 <<< $150 for a free dog >>>
    
    Would someone please explain to me what the hell a humane society
    is supposed to do?  I've got this apparently mistaken notion that they
    are supposed to promote humane treatment of animals.  From what
    I just read, sounds like they're in it for the money and to
    promote some misguided political cause.
    
    To me, if I have to spend $150 for a dog, I'm not going to start
    at the Humane Society, especially if they won't let hunters have
    dogs.  It seems to me that their prices are prohibiting a lot of
    good, potential animal owners from "adopting" one of their pets.
    So what happens to the animals that don't get adopted?  I read
    somewhere that after a certain length of time, they are destroyed.
    Why is it humane to destroy an animal but not let someone adopt
    it?  Seems that they have a system that is out of whack.
    
    One more point and I'll quit.  I understand their need to recapture
    expenses (via adoption fees), but if they have to provide for the
    animals anyway, why destroy them (this has to cost something) rather
    than just giving them to some deserving individual.
            
    Jerry

    I am totally against the policy of not adopting out to hunters,
    but the Humane Societies do not make a profit.  Our local HS
    charges $25 for a mutt and $50 for a purebred.  That is dirt cheap
    for a dog.  Usually the purchase price is only a fraction of what
    you pay for its upkeep. There is alot of overhead involved in running 
    a kennel, including the cost of euthenasia.
    
    But about that policy, something should really be done.  They are 
    putting their personal opinions before the welfare of the dog's,
    and I think that is wrong.  I have given them money in the past; 
    next time I get a request for donations, I will send it back with 
    an explanation of why I can't contribute in good conscience.
    	Linda

    
    Maybe I should clarify why the adoption of my dog cost.  As I said,
    most of the amount $110 was for neutering. They do not make you 
    agree to do this, it is up to you. They ask you to do it.  The
    dog itself was $50. Pretty cheap for a puppy that has grown on us
    and gives alot of company. My wife was really gratefull having him
    around every Nov weekend while I was off hunting. 
    
    I also disagree with there hunter policy.
    
    --Bob

    I don't agree with the idea that an orginization that relys on 
    money from the public for it's existance, should impose the social, 
    religious or political values of thier employees on that public.  
    
    Do they eat the animals that THEY kill?  Do they use the hides from
    those animals?  No!  Who gives them the right to judge?  They've
    certainly killed (wasted) more animals than I ever will.  People
    who think that hunting is barbaric, should pay a visit to the local
    pound on clear-out day.  
    
    But we do learn from the stupidity of others. (better thiers than
    ours)
    
    Glenn
      

    The Kennebec Valley Humane Society, which runs a kennel here in
    Augusta, will not let you adopt an animal until IT IS nutuered.
    
    Plain and simple..
    
    I called about the adopting to hunter part...They said "No Problem,
    we're concerned about the welfare of the dog."
    
    Jim
    
    

    re.  last
        
    	Now that makes more sense.  I imagine shelters have different
    policies depending on who runs them, maybe the political climate
    etc.
    
    Andy