Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    I hope they make an example out of these two bozos.
    
    Mark.

     Below is a copy of the letter to the editor i sent concerning the
    story in .0. 
    
    Sirs:
    
      In the Oct. 29 issue of the Sunday Telegram there was an article
    entitled "Deer Hunters enter pleas" on page B4.  Please don't insult
    the integrity of real sportsmen by labeling these individuals as
    hunters.  They are not.  Poachers who take game out of season, by
    illegal means (rifle), and on a Sunday have anothing in common with
    legitimate deer hunters. To refer to them as such is a disservice
    to the vast majority of hunters in this state who obey the game
    laws.  A more apropriate title whould have been, "Alleged Poachers
    enter pleas".
    
    Sincerly
    
    Jeff Amberson

	Greetings, fellow sportsmen,
     Poachers are a problem not only to the legitimate hunting population
    but to the game and often times themselves.  I know where I hunt
    there are those who believe that they have the right to cut fences,
    hunt out of season, spotlight etc.  The examples are too numerous
    to list here.  In short, there is little that a person can do about
    the situation when State Game Wardens will not enforce the laws
    on the books.  
    	Off To The Woods For Ten Days In November, Glenn
                                                  
    
    

    Re.3
    
      I disagree.  There is ALOT a person can do!  And if you don't
    do it your just as bad as the guy who held the light or the one
    who pulled the trigger!  You can call the F&G folks and report
    violations.  You can take down license numbers and get descriptions.
    Wardens can't be everywhere, it's up to us to police our own ranks.
    Rumor has it that one of the individuals in the article in .0 is
    on the board of directors for a local sportsmans club.  Rumor also
    has it that the poaching activities in the Fitchburg area were well
    known.  How many of you out there have heard about Joe Blow who
    Jacks a deer now and then?  It is atime we viewed the wardens as
    our friends rather then our enemys.  This means being there extra
    set of eyes and ears.  There is a lot we can do.
    
    

    I have to agree with both .4 and .5 . If we are to help our future
    we will have to help out the wardens. With more and more hunters
    every year and it seems like less and less money in the budget for
    fish & game, we will have to help. I know if I saw someone breaking
    the laws I would help out F&G. I wouldn't want someone ruining my
    future for me. I live for the fall. I live for the chance to hunt.
    Whether I can fill my tag or not, I still long for those brisk fall
    days of stalking through the woods. I know the willingness will
    last for a long time to come. I hope hunting continues for a long
    time after I am gone. But without our help the chances of hunting
    continueing go against us. Just my $.02. 
    							Bret

    
    RE:4 
    RE:5
     
      I AGREE !!!!!!!!!!!
    
    RE:3
    
    Its up to all of us to police ourselves. If you see a crime Call it in.
    
    I know in Maine and N.H. there are HOT-Lines for this sort of thing,
    but your best bet is to contact the State-Police and they in turn will
    carry out the investigation/arrest or contact the wardens. I say state
    police because they are much eaiser to contact at anytime day or night.
    
    Never try and be a hero and grab the poacher yourself, Be a hero and
    use the HOT-LINES!!!!!!!!
    
    Rick (Who is tired of looking the other way!)                          

    RE:4,5,6,&7
    
    Gentlemen,
    
    Don't get me wrong.  I have personally gone above and beyond to
    fight the poaching problem.  And so have the guys that I hunt and
    shoot with.  First, we tried phone calls to the Game Warden (He's
    very difficult to reach since he has permission to hunt on over
    half of the farms in the county. You never know where to look for
    him).  Then we tried the County Sherriff.  He told us to hold any
    one we found hunting illegally and call him, and he'll come out 
    to pick them up.  Last year we had to hunt in shifts.  While some
    of us were in the woods, enjoying the hunt, the others were out
    trying to make sure that it was safe in there and that no one was
    slipping in.
    
    During bow season they were turned in for driving through in FWD
    vehicles, baiting & then using rifles to hunt over bait.  Two days
    later, the bow hunter who turned this information in had his tree
    stand riddled with bullets.  (he wasn't in it at the time)  This
    is all happening on clearly posted, private property.  Other 
    property owners in this area fear retaliation for turning the
    poachers in.  It is the GW's job to deal with these people.  If
    he doesn't do his job, and a property owner or hunter has to stop
    a poacher, who does the poacher get back at?  It's not me that I'm
    concerned over.  It's the good friends of mine that allow me to 
    stay at thier home and hunt on thier land. 
    
    If you have GW's in your part of the country that are making an
    effort to enforce the laws, appreciate them.  And be thier extra
    eyes and ears.  I know what it's like to have one here that is no
    help at all! 
     
    Still Looking Forward To November 11,
    Glenn
    
     
      
    

    
    Glenn,
    	Where are you from?  I understand that some of the "Big Time"
    poachers will go to great lengths to preserve their poaching grounds.
    They've been know to threaten and kill people when they try to
    turn them in or even when a conviction is evident.  It's kind of
    like the Mafia (who knows, maybe there's a link?) in that it's
    big business to sell poached game to restaurants, etc...
    	Ever seen Venesion or other wild game on the menu??  I wonder
    how much of it was legally taken?  Remember the guys like Claude
    Dallas, they're nothing to mess with unless I suppose you're 
    prepared to defend yourself.  I'll call the warden and remain
    anonymous unless, of course, I had to testify.
    
    - Rob
    

    			JUST AN OLD KENTUCKY BOY
                        
    Rob,
    
    I'm working out of the Cincinnati office but I live in Northen
    Kentucky.  I hunt around the Pendleton/Bracken County line in Ky.
    (about 45 miles SE of Cincinnati)  
    
    I don't know what is being done with the game being poached from
    down there.  But you're probably right about the meat being sold
    commercially.  These guys aren't head hunters, they drag the whole
    deer out.  The property was purchased from a man who used to keep
    cattle on it.  He had problems with his stock being shot and 
    quartered and carried away.  
    
    "Big Time"?  Nah!  Parasites!  Little people with little minds,
    who don't care if there's game in those hills when thier sons are
    old enough to enjoy his first opening day.  Jerks who have no regard
    for the work that another has put into maintaining his land and
    livestock.  And basicly more cowardly than your common purse 
    snatcher.  
    
    I'm stepping down from the soap box for now.
    
    Ten Days And Counting
    
    Glenn   

    	Glenn,
    		Have you tried complaining to the game warden's
    superiors?? That might do some good.
    
    	Another minor but important point. I've overheard people joking
    about poaching a deer or elk, and the rest of the guys in the
    group kind of smile and knod their heads, as if it was OK and
    everyone does it. It's time we stop being too embarassed to
    light into people who smuggly admit to poaching, and tell them
    that they'd better not let one of us catch them at it.
    
    	If poachers started to believe that we're all serious about
    stopping them, there might be fewer of them.          
    
    	Just my opinion,
    		George

    RE: .11
    
    George,
    
    We've complained to everyone we could think of.  We get the same
    story, "can't be everywhere at once", "understaffed" etc.  We've
    taken some steps to slow things down ourselves.  Since the majority
    of problems are on a section that is bordered by an old county road,
    we've concentrated on making it difficult to gain access.  The road
    is one lane gravel and has two bridges washed out.  Passage is 
    impossible for anything with a longer wheelbase than a jeep.  
    Basically, the only ones using this road were the poachers.  The
    county would not close the road nor repair the bridges.  But some
    time last spring, a large honey locust tree mysteriously happened
    to fall across the road at each of the washed out bridge locations.
    There has not been a vehicle through that road in about eight months.
    Anyone going in there now must travel on foot.  And anyone driving
    in as far as the bridge must come out the way they went in.  Easy
    work for the GW now.  And I don't believe that the poachers will
    want to box themselves in like that.
    
    We've also organized the property owners in the area to sign a
    statement to the GW that permission to hunt on thier property is
    given in writing only.  We've copied a form and passed them out
    to the owners making it very easy for them to do this.  The GW and
    county sherriff have been given copies of the form and instructed
    that anyone who does have permission to hunt will have one.  
    
    So far this year, it seems quite a bit quieter out there.  Gun season
    opens next Saturday.  We'll see what happens then.  Three of us
    have taken our vacations for the ten days of gun season.  It'll
    be interesting to see if they show up on Monday morning thinking
    we've all gone back to work. 
    
    Surprise!
    
    Glenn
    

	I was listening to Paul Harvey at noon today and he sited an incident
	in Idaho on so called "Hunters" shooting deer at night using a spot
	light or their car headlights. So the Fish & Game Dept. set up one
	of their "stuffed" deer and waited for the offender to arrive, well
	sure enough the person arrived and started shooting at the stuffed 
	deer. Fish & Game officials arrested the perpatrator and come to 
	find out he was a STATE POLICE TROOPER !!!  Well, Well, Well 
	I wonder if he'll get off on a "technicality"....



				~Mike~

    break his a**

    This a sad note from New Brunswick.  Seems every year we go bird
    hunting there we come across part of a newly killed deer in the
    woods.  Seems everyone knows who the bad apples are.  But so many
    of the people are related it's hard to turn in Uncle Clem.
    
    Anyway, it seems one of the GW put out a stuffed deer in a field
    frequented by jackers.  He made the mistake of sitting in a sleeping
    bag in the bushes near the deer.
    
    The next morning they found two shots in the deer.  A third shot
    had killed the warden.  They never found the poacher who did it.
    It must be interesting to live with something like that on your
    conscience.
    
    Bill                            
    

    Bill,
    
    Although I'm critical of the GWs in my area, I'm always sorry to
    hear of such a tragedy.  It's incidents such as the one you shared
    with us that makes me understand the reluctance of some GWs to go
    out after poachers.  In our little corner of the world, we're doing
    what we can to at least slow the problem down.  But if the Uncle
    Clems have been doing this for thirty years without having to pay
    for it, by now they think it's thier right to do as they please.
    And if they depend on poached game for part of thier income, they
    can become quite indignant at the possibility of it being taken
    away.  
    
    Was this GW that you mentioned out there alone?  If so, why?  A
    poacher is definately an armed lawbreaker and should be treated
    as such.  Being probably under-armed and possibly out-numbered, 
    and away from help is not a desirable situation to put yourself 
    into.  Whatever the reason or circumstance, it's a horrible loss
    of life.  And may his killer be haunted by what he's done for the
    rest of his life.
    
    Glenn

    In past replies, I have sounded off about the poaching problem and
    my frustration over the lack of response by the local GW.  Well, 
    about two months ago, a guide on a fishing trip told the story of
    a trophy buck that he had killed, only to have it stolen from him.
    He finally got it back and guess who had it?  Yep, that same GW
    from Ky. that don't do his job had gone to Tenn. and performed the
    dastardly deed.
    
    Don't surprise me none!
    
    Glenn