Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    with the additional disclaimer that it's illegal here (Britain)...
    
    I see no reason why a .22 shouldn't be OK -- provided it's legal
                                                              
    /. Ian .\
    

I too see alot of grouse while elk hunting.  I've used limbs and rocks,
large and small bore firearms, and have even caught by hand 4 grouse.
In the past its been legal to take them "most" any way in Colo.  This
year there is a special restriction an calibers for small game during
elk/deer season.  To keep people "hunting small game" legal they can not
use a centerfire rifle larger than .23 caliber while hunting small game
during the three combined elk/deer seasons west of I25, unless they also
hold a valid deer or elk license for the season they are hunting in.
I myself carry a single action .22 for grouse and snowshoes,  great camp
dinners.  

I have made many observations of the effect of rifle blasts on big game.
In all cases it has not been the rifle blasts that spook the game its
been sight or scent that sent the others running.  I've shot many a single
animal out of a herd, and watched the rest mingle about until they catch
wind or sight of me.

Gordon

    Last year I purchased a wrist rocket sling shot for just that purpose,
    I know how it can be frustrating watching those birds walk righht
    by and not wanting to squeeze off that rifle! I purchased it on
    the way up to camp so needless to say I didn't get any birds, but
    it was fun trying, kind of breaks up the monotany (sp) while on
    a deer stand. But this summer I've been practicing so come on November!
    
    Have fun, and buy it now,and start practicing.
    
    Mike
    
    

    	The .22 shotshells don't reach out very far. If you can get
    within about 5 feet, they should work, otherwise, you need something
    a little heavier.  A possibility would be a double action .38 with
    4 inch barrel loaded with .38 shotshells. Not very heavy, and probably
    more effective than the .22.
    	By the way, I resemble your remark about Yahoo cowboys! How
    many of us have you known?  :^)
    
    	George

    A Ruger Single Six?
    
    What's that look like?  Is that a revolver for .22?  Is it a semi-auto?
    I was sort of hoping for more than a single shot and the name implies
    one shot at a time. I plead ignorance on this one.  Don't remember having 
    seen one.  
    
    The only gun that came to my mind was a Ruger MK II or Mark II or whatever.
    I guess I'm not up on my .22 handguns.  
    
    With the .22 caliber, I figured I wouldn't need shotshells.  I feel
    that a .22 bullet should be reasonable on the meat even if it hits the
    body.  And camp meals are exactly what I have in mind.  
    
    Sling shot.  Good idea.  I hate to sound like a meat hunter but......
    
    Nothing wrong with a .38........it's just that I have this blank gun
    that I use to train the dogs see......and if that thing were a .22,
    it would be the perfect size.
    
    Great replies.  Anybody have other "tools" for camp meal acquisition
    that one might want to look at in addition to the Single Six and the other
    items mentioned?  
    
    /brett
    

    re: .2
    
    >caught 4 grouse by hand.
    
    Hey Gordon, want to go hunting?
    
     :-) :-) :-)

    re: -1  
    
    Yes, the ruger single six is a revolver.  Single action, six rounds,
    supplied with (in some cases) with two clyinders.  .22 & .22mag
    
    As far a accuracy goes, I'm not the greatest of shots, but do manage
    to hold 2" circle at 25yds.

    Take a look at the Smith & Wesson model 63  - small frame 
    stainless 22 LR revolver, 4 inch barrel. Or its' blue 'twin'.
    the model 34. Both have adjustable sights and are light and
    compact.

    (Don't bother with the 2" barrel, the slight saving in size
    and weight isn't worth it)
    
    Dana

       <<< Note 411.7 by DECWET::HELSEL "Legitimate sporting purpose" >>>

    >caught 4 grouse by hand.
    
	Yea, talk about saving bullets.  A friend and I were taking a
	trail back to camp and there were about a dozen of them on the
	trail.  When we came upon them, they just milled about.  We
	drove them into some of those short evergreen bushes and they
	got hung up.  I had 4 flopping around headless before my city
	friend caught one. He was so surprised at catching it that it
	got away from him.  The rest finally flew up into trees just
	out of reach.  Dumb birds, but the guys in camp ate good that
	night.

	I've used those shot shells in .22 and .38.  Have to have the
	gun to their head to take them down.  I've been using CCI longs
	in my .22 six shotter, only minimal damage.  Those shot shells
	won't even make rabbits flinch.  I like the sling shot idea too.

	Gordon

    
    How about a pellet gun the Co2 type, Its quiet, pretty accurate
    for 15yds or so and does not cost a fourtune.
    
    Rick

    I like the idea of a gun with adjustable sights.  Does the
    Ruger Single Six have adjustable sights?
    
    The CO2 gun is not a bad idea but it has a couple problems.
    One is that I don't notice where they are particularly small
    and two is that you have to screw in the gas bottle to get it
    to shoot.  If you just leave the gas screwed in, it could leak
    and when you pull the trigger you find there is not enough juice.
    Of course, that's just me and this is probably a perfect solution for 
    someone else.  Thanks for the idea!
    
    So far, the suggestions for tools for hunting grouse while big game hunting
    are:
    
    1) slingshot
    2) .22
    3) shotshells in larger caliber handguns
    4) CO2 guns
    
    Great ideas!
    
    /brett
    

    The single six does come with adjustible sights,  
    or at least the one I have does.

    Brett,
      Go with the Ruger loaded with .22lr.  Aim for the head.  You should
    be able to get close enough to hit them fairly consistantly.  Even
    if you hit them low you won't do alot of damage as long as you don't
    use high velocity hollow points.
       
    Jeff (Who prefers a 20 ga. with 7.5's)

    When deer hunting here in Colorado, I carry my Ruger MKII Target
    in case I run across any Grouse.  Seems to work just fine and can
    be had for about $170.
    
    Mark

    I'd go with the 22auto before taking the single-six.  I have both
    and I wouldn't think twice about which to use.  The auto is easier
    to load/unload, you can get the lead out much more effectively,
    and I can shoot it a lot better than the single-six.  I don't like
    the grips that Ruger uses on their single actions.  Pachmyer solved
    this problem with my .44mag but I don't know if they make adult
    grips for the .22 single-six. As stated, forget about the rat-shot.  
    You may as well use your hands ;^) ... thats a great story in itself!
    
    This past February I was taking my 4 year old out for a walk (actually
    it was more of a carry) and we came up on a couple of these "natives".
    To get them to move so my son could see them I threw a snowball.
    The snowball hammered one of the birds, feathers/birds flew, and my boy
    had himself a good laugh.  
    
    And don't discount the slingshot idea........ ask Fra what he used
    to do with one.
    
    Dave                                             

     If I was considering this for my FIRST sidearm, I'd look closely
    at the single six. The versatility if interchangable cylinders almost
    gets you two revolvers for the price. 
     Also, you may consider .22 shorts or .22CB's for those ranges...a
    lot quieter, and effective enough for grouse at close range.
    

    I have carried a sidearm during NH season for quite a few seasons.
    It is really nice to be able to let them grousies have it when they
    think you cant get 'em cause you're *deer* hunting! 
    
    My sidearm would also have to double as a "signaling device". I hunt
    big woods with no real pressure outside my hunting partners...and my
    back is about worthless. Therefore, my partners know that if they
    hear a snubbie 38 going of, its me and I need help. (dragging or
    whatever). For years now, my companion has been a Colt Agent 38. The
    D-frames have always been a favorite of mine. They are real "pointers",
    and are accurate enough to hit small game, even with the fixed sights.
    
    I have the later-model agent, alloy frame for light weight and a
    Parkerized finish for utility and low glare. Put it in an Uncle Mikes
    nylon holster and stoke it with wadcutters and it makes a small and
    lightweight companion. Best yet, I wear it on the same external belt
    that holds my fanny pack and it is never in the way while remaining
    totally accesable.....and it doesn't hang down and get in the way
    while seated. Oh, yeah, it was cheap to buy, too :-)
    
    .9 is also correct about the Kit Gun. The S+W M34 was designed as
    a trail companion. I recently got one, and even with the 2" barrel
    it is an impressive shooter. It even has sights! And with the short
    tube, it would still stay out of the way when not needed.
    
    I would think a Single-Six and/or a Mark I/II would be a bit large
    for my taste. Beating the brush in NH is tough work and over the years
    I have tried to eliminate bulk from my kit.
    
    Another good choice might be a pre-war Colt Woodsman 4" flavor. Sure
    wish the gun collector in me would step aside sometimes so I could use
    mine as a woods gun....bet it totes nicely :-)
    
    DAP
    

    I'm wondering if there is a problem with carrying a MK II or a similar
    semi-auto.
    
    Would most states allow you to carry a firearm that has 10 rounds?
    
    I know that a .22 is too small to hunt big game with by law, but are
    you allowed to carry a .22 that holds all those rounds while hunting?
    
    I have no idea.  I guess I should call the folks over at the ole F&G.
    
    That Smith what was it, M34 sounds like a strong candidate.  Must be
    expensive.
    
    /brett
    

     RE.19
    I can't speak for other states, but Maine has  clear laws about
    the number of bullet capacity. Any clips or magazines must be 
    PERMANANTLY altered so as to hold no more than 5 rounds max in the
    firearm. Note there is no clarification as to whether or not the
    firearm is primary or secondary. Revolvers are supposed to be carried
    with only 5 rounds in the cylinder, and (hopefully) the hammer over
    the empty. The exception to this is if you have a concealed pistol
    permit. This allows you to carry a sidearm with whatever capacity
    you like.
    
    Bob
    

    Smith & Wesson also makes a nice lightweight 22 semi-auto -
    the 422. 
    
    If size is a consideration, get a Model 34 or 63, if price
    is more important, look at the Rugers.
    
    (FWIW I *HATE* single action revolvers - they don't fit my 
    hand worth sh*t - but you may love 'em. Gimme a DA with
    Pachmyrs)
    
    Dana

    
    
    		What are the Mass. rule(s) regarding handguns and hunting?
    	I know about the hunting/target license, but I'm fuzzy on what
    	calibers for which game is allowed.
    
    		Thanks,
    			CP
    

    In Mass. the only laws I know concerning pistol hunting is
    that .357 magnum or more is required for bear, and may only be
    used during the September portion of the season.
    
    When I hike in winter, I carry and if asked, I'm hunting
    coyotes :-) Never been bothered.
    

    Dana

    RE.20
    According to the "Maine Hunting and Trapping Regulations Summary 
    1988 - 1989" 
    
    	Laws Pertaining to Hunting Equipment
    
    	1. Legal Methods. Wild animals and wild birds may be hunted only
    	by the use of firearms (not larger than 10-gauge), or long bow and
    	arrow, or by falconry.
    
    	2. Shotgun to be plugged. It is unlawful to hunt any migratory game
    	bird with a shotgun originally capable of holding more than 3
    	shells unless the magazine has been cut off, altered, or plugged
    	with a one-piece filler (incapable of removal without disassembling
    	the gun), so as to reduce the capacity of the gun to not more than
    	3 shells in the magazine and chamber combined.
    
    	3. Crossbow. It is unlawful to hunt with a crossbow.
    
    	4. Automatic firearm (a firearm that continues to fire as long as
    	the trigger is held back). It is unlawful to hunt with or
    	possess any automatic firearm.
    
    	5. Auto-loading firearm (a firearm which reloads itself after each
    	shot and requires a separate trigger pull for each shot). It is
    	unlawful to hunt with or possess any auto-loading firearm which 
    	has a magazine capacity of more than 5 cartriges, unless the
    	magazine has been permantly been altered to contain not more than
    	5 cartridges. (Note: This provision does not apply to .22 caliber
    	rimfire guns or to auto-loading pistols with barrel lengths of
    	less than 8 inches.)
    
    
    Mike
    

	All in all, a .22LR semi pistol with 4-6" bbl would be my primary
	choice.  Only problem being is that it'll only feed (reliably) LR
	fodder while a wheelgun could take the quiter .22 shorts/CBs.  I've
	had very good results with a Browning Nomad (cheapy version of the
	Challenger) hand-feeding it .22 shorts .... quiet and plenty for 
	any small game head w/in 15-25 yards.

	You'll not need high velocity (supersonic makes it's own crack,
	much louder) and/or hollowpoints ... garden variety solid shorts
	work quite well.

	.38 wadcutters aren't much louder than .22s and pop 'em quick.

	I would probably starve hunting with a wristrocket.

	Want to be really quiet?  Get a 3' section of 1/2" EMT (eletrical
	conduit) and debur the ends.  Wrap up a few sharpened brazing 
	rods with cones of tape and you have a pretty effective blowgun.
	They can be very accurate and whisper quiet.

	AA