Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

      If another hunter put a bullet in "your" deer 15 minutes after
    you hit it then I'd have to say that yours was not THE killing shot.
    A deer hit in the lungs will not live that long.  However, if another
    hunter got to "my" deer before me I'd examine the deer to see what
    the bullet did, i.e., expansion, etc.. and then I'd congratulate
    myself for a job-well-done.  I'd then walk away and enjoy the
    opportunity to hunt for another deer.  Don't get me wrong... I love
    venison and I'd surely get upset if the deer in question was a trophy
    class animal. But there is no room for ethics in a situation like
    this.  The law places possession of the animal on whomever tags
    it first and it isn't worth the arguement especially when the "thief"
    is armed and legally within his/her rights.           
    
    I'll bet this sort of thing happens 500 times each opening day of
    rifle season in heavy pressure states like Pennsylvania.... maybe
    a good reason to avoid places like that?
    
    Dave (currently suffering from cabin fever)

    .1 is right on the money. First come first served. But the first
    thing I do when I shoot a deer is I make a small slice in the fore
    leg of the deer, big enough to slip a dime in there, which is exactly
    what I do. I remember the date on the dime. I do this in case someone
    thinks they can take my deer away from me. I would then follow them
    to a deer tag station and ask the owner of the station to call the
    Game Warden and I would then hold those that are illegally involved,
    somehow like a flat tire or something and wait for the warden. When
    the Warden shows up I would then tell him that I can prove that
    it is my deer and explain about the dime. The perpetrators would
    then be arrested and eventually tried. This has happened before
    although not to me.
    							Bret

    
    I would probably talk with the other hunter, trying to get his attitude 
    about this.  If I thought he would be reasonable, I would attempt to 
    explain to him, even showing him the blood trail. If he showed any
    signs of anger, I would just walk away. It ain't worth the potential
    trouble.
    
    If I was on the other side, (the second hunter), and someone explained
    to me what had happened, with proof, I would give the guy the deer,
    along with an offer to help drag it out, and congratulations on the
    deer.  Legally mine or not, I don't care, he shot it first, I believe
    it's his.
    
    --Bob

    	re. The last few,,,,spoken like true sportsmen! Bravo!
    
    		George
    

     I agree 110% with all 4 replys, In my camp the law of the woods
    is the last shot to kill the deer is the one to take it home, unless
    the hunter who killed it last really insisted that my shot would've
    killed it, thats hunting and thats why we all have to be true sportsman
    to be called sportsman. good job guys!!
                                             Rick (Reg. Maine Guide)

    
    I would also tend to agree with all replies, but as a sixteen
    year old kid on his first deer hunt with his first deer and an
    older "hunter" standing there telling you that he would have taken
    your deer if he found it, you tend to form an opinion very quickly that
    there's no way HE would have taken that deer. What would I do
    today? I don't know. I know it's not worth a fistfight in the middle
    of the woods, so I also would probably let it go.     
   
    I also consider myself a SPORTSMAN. I don't trespass,litter, take
    more than my bag limit,or hunt out of season to name a few.
     
    I would like to think that no one was trying to imply that I am
    not a sportsman just because of this one incident. 8^)
    
    
                Walt_who_grew_wiser_with_age_
    

    This year while working a drive with a few of the guys I hunt with,
    the guy to my left jump a deer and shot it in the hind quarters.
    The deer was heading directly for me, so I aimed and hit it squarely
    in the chest, dropping and killing it instantly.  Well the guy who
    hit it first comes running over with his tag half filled out, thanking
    me for killing his deer!
    
    The basic rule with the group I hunt with, is that all the venison
    gets share between the hunters.  But it really pissed me off that
    this guy made such a big deal of shooting that deer.  For me it
    just easier to say "screw it" and let him bask in his false glory
    than to get into a shooting match over a deer.
    
    
    Ray
    

    I read a similar story in outdoor life, the incident happend in
    Minnesota (I think it was that state) Were a young hunter was on
    a stand and a large buck walked by. The hunter raised his rifle,
    took aim and fired. The deer stumbled, then ran down the ridge.
    The hunter knew it was a good hit and decided to waite a few minutes.
    To his horror a shot came from were he last saw the deer. When he
    reached the spot he found a hunter gutting out his deer. The first
    hunter told how shot the deer and was tracking it, but the second
    hunter said it was his and taged it. The first hunter took down
    his name and address and called the game warden. After the warden
    excamined the deer, he knew it was a trophey and all parties agreed
    to put the head in a local taxidermist. What fallowed was a long
    court battle, but in the end the state court of Minnesota ruled
    that the first hunter will claim his prize. It was ruled that if
    the wound is IMMINENT, then the person that caused that wound claimed
    the deer, NOT the person that has it in there possesion.
    
                                                          AL
    

    Imagine, if you will, a less than ethical hunter (shudder). He comes
    upon a deer that has just died, and shoots another hole into it. He
    fills out the tag as the original hunter comes over the ridge to claim
    his deer. The original hunter is SOL. The unethical hunter gets a deer.
    It's too bad that things like this happen.
    
    The Doctah

            <<< CASPRO::DISK$AMBER:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HUNTING.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< HUNTING >-
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Note 24.105                          Ethics                           105 of 134
SPMFG1::CHARBONND "Mos Eisley, it ain't"             16 lines  13-SEP-1988 06:56
                           -< the law in Wisconsin >-
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    RE .101   This is from 'Deer & Deer Hunting', Oct. 1987, an article
    titled 'The trial for the King of Green Mountain'.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    "The law in the state of Wisconsin relating to vesting of title
    to a wild animal to it's pursuer is set forth in the case of
    Liesner vs. Wanie 156 Wis. 16, a 1914 case. In part it says, "When
    a wild animal is brought under control of a person so that actual
    posession is practically inevitable, a vested property interest
    accrues which cannot be divested by another intervening and killing
    it." When I talked to a warden from Wisconsin, he told me that a
    deer belongs to the hunter whose shot "makes death and posession
    inevitable." In other words, if you make a gut shot, surely the
    deer will die but will you recover it ? On the other hand, if a
    deer is shot through the heart and lung area, death and posession
    is inevitable."

       My uncle told me a story about something that happened to him. 
    He cut a buck track in the snow and began tracking the deer, while
    tracking he came across another hunters tracks so he decided to
    circle around knoll instead.  When he got to the other side,  he
    saw the buck and shot it.  
       He tagged the deer and gut it out. Knowing that he couldn't drag
    this big deer out by himself and not knowing who the other hunter
    was, he decided to stick his knife in the chest cavity of the deer
    before he got his brothers to help him drag the deer out.
       When they parked their cars, this other hunter was out on the
    road with guess what! well my uncle praised what a nice looking
    animal it was and the guy started saying how he shot it and all
    that.  My uncle asked if he could check the animal out and the guy
    said go ahead, so my uncle reached down in the chest cavity and
    pulled out his hunting knife, looked up at the other hunter and
    said thanks for dragging my deer out. The other hunter promptly
    left the area.
    
    Mike 
    
    
    

    RE:.11  great idea with the knife...  have to remember that should
    I ever shoot a nice 200+ pounder and can't drag it myself ;^)
              
    someone said a couple back that whoever tags it owns it, have to
    agree there but it also seems to me that ultimatly its the guy who
    finishes it off who must make the call here... If he's a true
    sportsman, he'll give it up to the first guy if it was a fatal shot.
    If he isn't, walk away and think about buying a 270 ;^) so next
    time the deer will drop in his tracks.... ;^)
    
    Fighting over a dead deer isn't the way to handle the situation,
    pass it up and continue to hunt with the satisfaction that you've 
    already scored. 
     
    When hunting with a party there should never be a problem with this,
    where I hunt (10 guys) if someone shot a deer and another guy finished
    it off, it would be automatic... first guy would tag it, unless
    it was a non fatal shot, and the beauty is everyone knows this up
    front.... exception being if it was a young hunter or someones first
    deer...  theres always exceptions.... 
    
    if you think this is a problem during the rifle season, put yourself
    in bowhunters shoes.... where you must allow more time between the
    shot and starting on the track.  could cause some problems, especially
    when there is no gun shots for other hunters to hear.
    
    fra
    

    Hey Bob,  chill...
    
    It is a good idea, I would'nt recommend using a knife, but anything
    could be substituted in its place...  especially under the conditions
    the original author described... had he not done it, he would have
    lost the deer.... this isn't to say the bastard couldn't drag it
    out someplace else though.
    
    would love to see the look on the guys face when you pull out a
    spent casing from under the deers hide.
    
    Fra

    How would you guys ever check in your newly recovered deer???? 
    Obviously the fellow that took the liberty to claim your deer must
    have done something with your tag.  Now if you heat up a branding
    iron and .................   8^)
    
    Sorry guys, but I've never had any problem dragging out 62.5 pound
    skippers and the highwaymen that lay wait to rob me didn't think
    my deer were worth stealing.
    
    All kidding aside.... you could just bury the deer with brush and
    leaves and blaze a discrete return trail so you can find it again.
    Although it would be tempting to carry out the heart/liver at this
    time I wouldn't recommend it because without the tagged deer in
    your possession you could be in a world of hurt if a warden crossed
    your path.
    
    Dave

    
    	It's happened to me.
                                                      
    	Year - 1986
    
    	My friend and I were walking in the woods late one morning.
    We passed some nice trails that ran through the logging road. We
    rested and chatted when all of a sudden a nice buck was trailing
    a doe that crossed the logging road. He had his nose burried in
    the ground. I told my buddie, look, a buck standing right in the
    logging road. He didn't see the horns but I did. He glassed the
    animal and said, "Take it".  I placed the cross hairs right on the
    deers' shoulder and pulled the trigger. The deer leaped and my buddie
    fired. He missed, the shot went right in the snow. He more or less
    congratulated me and said let's go find him. We walked up to where
    the dear was but couldn't find any blood. We started hoofing it,
    we knew it would take a while to track him down. We weren't on the
    trail for more than 10 mins. when we heard the shooting and yelling.
    Well needless to say, I missed my first buck. End of dear season.
    We went and shot my rifle. It shot 6 inches to the right on 2 pwr.,
    7 pwr. was dead on. (50 yds.) Guess what power my scope was on??
    I quickly trade that piece of shit for a Leupold 2x7.. I made damn
    sure that scope was properly sighted in...    Oh well, it was an
    excuse anyways. 
    
     
    Year - 1987
    
    I was hunting with the same guy in 1986.
    
    This time we got into the woods at a decent hour. My buddie went
    his way and I went mine. See ya at the truck, etc....
    
    I was still hunting a ridge and noticed some movement down below
    me. I looked, sure enough, a doe. I almost got up to move when I
    noticed more movement. I couldn't believe it, HORNS... My heart
    started pounding. He was at least 75 yds. away passing right by
    me. I waited untill he was between some trees and let him have it.
    When I fired, the deer jumped straight up in the air and ran down
    the other side of the ridge. I hesitated a few mins. and proceeded
    towards the ridge below me. When I got there the area was covered
    with blood. I heard some noise below me, snorting..  I knew he was
    hit good. All what was running through my mind was to get to get
    to that deer. It wasn't bad tracking, good blood trail. I was on
    the trail for a 1/2 hr. to 45 mins. when I heard a shot. Boy was
    I pissed, I knew what happened. Sure enough, I walk up to this guy
    with a shotgun gutting out my deer. Before I heard the shot, I noticed
    the deer was dragging his feet in the tracks. I knew he was bleeding
    to death. BUT.... This guy was gutting out the deer, not ME.
    
    I walked up to the guy, asked him if he heard me shoot earlier.
    HE said, yes, I did. I said OK, what was the deer doing when you
    shot it. He said, It was standing still. He shot it in the neck
    a 1/2 inch above where I hit it. You could see both bullet holes
    clear as day. I tried everything I could do without starting a fight
    to claim that deer. I told him it was my first buck but that didn't
    matter. It was his 19th or 20th, he told me.  He continued to gut
    while I pleaded my case. HE wasn't going to give up that deer. So
    what do I do, I help the bastard drag it out. We get to the truck
    and he tags it, gives me a ride to my truck where my buddy is freezing
    to death. He looks at the deer and couldn't believe it. That took
    place on the next to last day of the season.. WOW, at least I got
    the heart and liver. Boy did that suck.. Ah, there's always next
    year..
    
    Year - 1988
    
    Same scenerio as 1987. I was still hunting when a doe passed by
    with a buck trailng. This was a longer shot than the year before.
    Of couse I missed on the first shot. Took 3-4 more while he was
    running away from me and than nothing, no deer.. I took off quicker
    than Ben Johnson, looked for any kind of movement, re-loaded my
    gun. I saw that sucker a 100 yds. or so just standing between two
    trees. I had a good broad side shot. I fired, nothing.. I fired
    again, wham, down he goes..  End of story.. 7 shots finally bagged
    my first buck.. Took 15 years.. Spikehorn or not, that sob wasn't
    gonna get away.  Took me 4.5 hrs. to drag that deer out. It was
    the first day of season wiht no snow...
    
    
    	I JUST LOVE DEER HUNTING, CAN'T YOU TELL....
    
    This year, who knows????     I'm hoping for a nice 5x5...
    
    	-rem      It wasn't a dream folks, it happened..
    
    	Should that deer I wounded been mine, I think so. If I put a
    second shot into someone's deer I would look over the situation
    and worse comes to worse at least split the deer 50-50.. Cripe sakes,
    you don't have to be a genius to figure something like that out..
    
    	I hope I didn't get to carried away..

      Sorry to hear about "the one's that got away".  Glad to hear you
    finally cashed in though.  I don't think you got carried away. 
    The next best thing to my memories is hearing someone elses.
     
      As far as whether or not you deserved the deer thats all over and
    done with.  I'm glad you didn't loose your cool and assault the
    guy over it.  Look at it in a different light.  Are there any lessons
    to be had.  i.e., is there anything you could do differently next
    time, did your movement spook the deer, was your shot placement
    precise, were you undergunned, should you have gone for a higher
    percentage shoulder shot versus the neck, did you shoot too soon,
    would the deer have walked up to you, did you practice enough
    throughout the year, etc..  These are the things I ask myself 
    when something goes wrong.  If I come up with blanks and I did
    everything right then theres nothing to feel bad about.  A great
    aspect with hunting is that no matter how good you get at it you
    will not win all the time.  
    
    good luck in 89
    
    Dave