Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

                          -< .300 Winchester Magnum >-

	I just bought a Winchester .300 Mag and am going to work up a load 
 with Nosler 180 gr. Partition bullets.  Does anyone have any Info that may
 come in handy?
	I will post the results later.
					Jim

While I use a .300 H&H Magnum for hunting, I do load and shoot about
400-500 rounds a year of .300 Winchester Magnum in 1000yd rifle matches.

On paper some of the slower burning powders will show slightly better
velocities than IMR4350.  However, I have found, as have most other
long range match shooters, that IMR4350 gives the best accuracy in the
.300 Winchester when using 180 gr to 200 gr bullets.  The 180 gr Nosler
has met all of my needs in the .300 H&H and I would use the same in the 
.300 Winchester.

You may want to try 67.0 gr of IMR4350, 180 gr Nosler, Federal 210M (the
"M" is for MATCH) primer, in Winchester cases.  Set your overall length
so that the bullet has about .025" travel before engaging the lands if
your magazine can accomodate this length.  If it can not then make them
as long as you can and still be able to feed them through the magazine.
I have not found that crimping is required if the cases are clean and 
all traces of lube are gone from the inside of the necks.  I wash my
cases in a tumbler with BB's and dishwater.

If 67.0 gr of IMR4350 appears too light, I.E. vertical stringing or
smoked case body, you can work up.  Magnums tend to work best at slightly
less than maximum loads.  

Good luck and let us know how you make out.


Good Shooting!

	Thanks for the info.  I'll keep you posted on the loads and my shoulder.

Regards,    

Jim 

	I wanted to find the distance to the rifling lands, so I used a 
spent cartidge and one the bullets I plan to use.  By starting the bullet 
in the case by hand, then chambering the round, it appeared to be seating the
bullet to be just touching the lands.  My question is - by reducing the overall
length by .025, can I be sure that I'm not touching the land?  It sounds
obvious, but could it possibley be chambering the bullet partway into the
land of the barrel?  I just don't want excessive pressure as I test my new
loads - I plan to load near max.
	The bullet I am going to work with is the 165 gr. Nosler Partition.
They should be made of gold for charge for a box!!  
	One more item - I was really surprised how much I had to trim once
fired brass.  They were all well over max. length and I only neck-sized them.
	These points may sound silly, but my only reloading experience comes
from a 22-250.

Thanks in Advance,
Jim

 

    Mark the bullet with a black marker and chamber it at the
    desired cartridge OAL - you'll be able to tell if you're
    seated to the lands or not.

    RE .4: Magnums headspace on the belt as opposed to the shoulder.  For
some reason, manufacturers seem to have a harder time controlling that
demension (rim face to forward edge of belt) than they do in controlling
the "normal" headspace demension.  To compound the problem they seem to 
make the rim face to shoulder demension on the short side.  This contributes
to some of the case stretch.  However, if the belt demensions are correct,
the shorter rim to shoulder demension should have no ill effects.  What 
I'm getting to is that it is not unusual to have a significant growth in 
case length upon firing magnum brass for the first time.

When full length re-sizing brass, size it only enough to ensure that the 
cases chamber freely.  When full length sizing, make sure that each case 
is lubed uniformly.

As to forcing the bullet part way into the lands: the bullets will engage the
lands to a greater or lesser degree depending on neck tension.  When testing
for the overall length demension it is a good idea to size the neck only 
enough to hold the bullet in place against moderate finger pressure, 
whatever that means.  What I do is size the neck enough so that I can insert
and remove the bullet using only my fingers.  It needs to be tight enough
so that this is somewhat difficult to do.  If I had to place a number on it
I would estimate that it takes 8-12 pounds of force to push the bullet
into the case and to remove it.  This way the bullet is not pushed too far 
into the lands and it will come out with the case when the dummy is extracted.

As to pressure variations when seating against the lands: I find that in
rifles whith good, accurate chambers and using reasonable loads that there
is little difference in observed pressure signs when seating against, as 
opposed to having some bullet free travel prior to engaging, the lands.
However, if a particular load is close to maximum, or minimum for that 
matter, a small change in anything that effects pressure can cause erratic 
and dangerous pressure excursions.


Good Shooting!

    

	I've spent the last few weeks working on hand loads for my 'new'
300 Win. mag.   I have 4 reloading maunals I've been using for reference -
Nosler, Hornaday, Speer and Sierra.  The load I've settled on is 165 gr. Nosler
partition bullets with CCI 250 primers and 76 gr. of IMR 4831.  It is a max. 
load so be sure and work up slowly.  The velocity should be about 3200 fps.
I've also seated the bullet out closer to lands- .030 inches of clearance.  The
overall length of these loads is 3.505 inches, they are short enough to fit
in the magazine of my Vanguard, however.  My group was just under 1 MOA.  It's
not a good as my 22-250 M77V, but I didn't expect it to be.
	BTW, my shoulder is recovering nicely.

				Jim

    Have you tried comparing Noslers to Sierra boat tails?
    
    I switched and was amazed at how much more consistent the
    Sierras are.
    
    /brett
    

    re.- Have you tried comparing Noslers to Sierra boat tails?
    
    Brett,
	No I have not.  I picked the Nolser bullet for penetration.  I've 
heard both pro and con about Sierra bullets.  Have you tried using Grand Slams?
I want to stay away from thin jacketed bullets. 

	Thanks,			Jim

    I like Nosler bullets myself, however, on my model 70, the 165 gr.
    sierra's print 14 INCHES low and to the right at 100 yds. Damndest
    thing you ever saw... 150 gr sierra's print just about an inch high,
    and the 200 gr nosler's I use for deer and elk print 2.5 inches
    high at 100 yds... I have noticed that the groups tend to get 
    quite a bit larger as the day progresses.. and after fifteen
    or twenty shots, the groups are REALLY large...
    
    
    Lowell
    

    re:.10  wow!!!!
    
    all of the shooting done on the same day?  14" low? you got me!
    
    fra

    I haven't used any grand slams.
    
    I used Nosler partitions in my .300 weatherby. I'm moving 150
    grains at about 3200 fps.  Before hunting season I was dissappointed
    with my groups at 200 yards using Noslers.  I changed powders,
    loads etc.  The goups never got very tight.
    
    I sat down and loaded some sierra 150 spbt into basically the
    exact same load (I worked it up) and voila.  Instant group.
    I talked to a lot of guys around the range and they all seem
    to like sierra for long distance loads.
    
    The reason I went with Noslers in the first place was because I thought
    a "normal" bullet would "blow up" at such a high speed.  So I took
    both loads on my hunting trip to Montana.  To make a long story short,
    I shot two Antelope at 200 and 400 yards.  One beast was taken
    with a nosler and one with the sierra (The further shot was the sierra 
    bullet After inspecting the impact zones, I decided that the Nosler
     offered me no advantage.
    Since Nosler partitions cost twice as much, I have scrubbed them
    from my reloading bench.
    
    I am now a sierra fan.  The bullet performance that I observed
    last year was excellent.  I should point out that I have shot
    other animals with Sierras and have always been satisfied.
    
    fwiw.
    
    /brett
     

    
    re: .10	
    Lowell,
           You have to compare the groups of the loads, not two different
    loads for their proximity to each other when fired from a barrel
    sighted in for just one of those loads.  All (or should I say most)
    loads of different lead weights, different powder, or amount of
    powder will shoot differently.  I'm not at all surprised with what
    you found!
    	If you really want to compare, sight your rifle in using the
    165 gr. sierra's and shoot several groups.  Then do the same for
    the Nosler's.  Only then can you compare.  Also, just because they
    shot 14 inches low when compared to your noslers, doesn't mean that
    the trajectory will be sloppy!  Velocity, barrel length, rifling,
    etc... comes into play as does the ballistic coefficient of the
    lead.  You may find the Sierra's will GROUP better.. ??
    
    - Rob
    
    	

    Re: .7
    Jim,
    Have you considered using a 180 grain bullet with this gun?  I think
    that by using a 165 grain bullet you are just emmulating -sp? a
    7MM Mag.  The 180 grain bullet really brings out the best in this
    cartridge.  A good load for the 180 is 72 grains of IMR 4350 with
    CCI 250 primers and Winchester brass.  This load tested well out
    to 265 yards (need more room).  As expected, the Sierra BT outperformed
    the Noslers ON PAPER.
  
    Needless to say.... the above load is MAX .... be careful!
      
    Dave
    

    Re: .14

    Dave,
    I looked long and hard at bullistic tables and tragectories before
    deciding on the 165.  In my opinion, the 165 is heavy enough for 
    upto and including elk, and flat enough and not too heavy for antelope
    size game.	The 180 is a good bullet, maybe better, but I guess that's
    why there are so many to choose from.

    I copied down your load and will copy it into my manuals for future
    reference.  I enjoy working up new loads and will try yours in the near 
    future

    Thanks,			Jim

    re: 13
    	Rob, I am aware of the fact that groups move around between
    bullet weights, but 14 inches at 100 yds.. that seems extreme to
    me.
    	The load I use is 64 gr. of 4350 behind a 200 gr Nosler Partition.
    This gives me 2800 fps at the muzzle and 3500 ft/lbs of energy at
    the muzzle. At 300 yds (I consider this extreme range) the same
    load is clipping along at over 2300 fps and over 2400 ft/lbs of
    energy. I hunt some pretty thick stuff at times and have never
    been woried about bullet deflection or bullet performance at
    extreme range.
    
    Lowell
    

	I need some info/help with reloading data for my .300 Win mag.
	At a local gun show a couple of months ago.  I was buying some
	supplies and the guy selling them suggested a new powder, Hercules
	Reloader 22, for the .300 Win mag.  Does anyone know anything about
	this powder, like why it is suggested for the mags?  Does anyone 
	have the newest Sierra reloading book and would be willing to post 
	the loading data for 180 and 200 grain SBT's? 

	Also as related side questions, what about this powder in 7mm and .270?


	Gordon

RE:                     <<< Note 159.17 by CSC32::G_ROBERTS >>>
                               -< Reloader 22  >-

	Yo Gordon, did you find out about the Reloder 22? If you did,
	then please disregard the info below. 

	The Reloder 22 is an extruded powder which is very similar
	to Norma MRP (I believe no longer available in the States?).

	I have reloaded a couple of cans of the stuff in .300 Win
	Mag up at Corky's place. We were not reloading for maximum 
	loads, nor were we chronographing, so I can't say how much
	velocity we got out of the powder. We managed to
	cook up some incredibly accurate reloads - but whether this
	was due to the powder, the bullets, the gun or (most probable)
	the combination of all three, I really could not say.

	I found the powder pretty similar to the standard extruded
	powders, maybe it measured a bit better than IMR 4350 (which
	does not take a lot!). Here in the old country I've reloaded
	quite a bit with Norma MRP for .30-06 and have gotten good
	results both accuracy wise and for a 200 grs Nosler Partition
	load also velocity wise (just under 2700 fps).

	The Nosler Reloading Manual (#3) lists loads with RL22. Here
	are a couple of examples:

	.300 Win Mag, 180 grs bullets, 24" Wiseman test barrel

	Powder		Max Charge(grs)		Velocity(fps)
	============	=================	==============
	IMR 4350	70.0			3130
	IMR 4831	73.0			3160
	RL22		75.5			3120

	7 mm Rem Mag, 160 grs bullets, 23.5" Wiseman test barrel

	Powder		Max Charge(grs)		Velocity(fps)
	============	=================	==============
	IMR 4350	60.0			3000
	IMR 4831	63.0			3010
	RL22		63.0			3060
	H870		79.5			3110

	.270 Win, 150 grs bullets, 24" Wiseman test barrel

	Powder		Max Charge(grs)		Velocity(fps)
	============	=================	==============
	IMR 4350	52.0			2780
	IMR 4320	45.0			2820
	RL22		56.5			2900


	If you feel really adventurous, then the following .270
	load has appeared in both G&A and Shooting Times. I have 
	the feeling this load might be a bit hot in some guns.

	.270 Win, 150 grs Nosler Part, 22" barrel: 58 grs of RL22
	for a velocity of 3028 fps. (!) 

	All the ususal disclaimers about load data apply!
	
	I like RL22/Norma MRP. Why not try it out - if you have not
	already done so? If you want, I can Pony-Express you a little
	reloading folder from Hercules. Just holler.

	Good luck

					- Mike