Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Well Rick, I'm from the new school, so let's see if we can find
    some middle ground...
    
    You've got to remember that hunters are NOT in the majority, and
    that hunting is NOT a right (and were having enough trouble maintaining
    our rights these days...)
    
    If enough people get pissed off/horrified/disgusted/etc. over seeing
    game displayed, we'll loose our right to hunt.  The "smart" thing
    to do would be to pass a law to outlaw displaying.  Note that smart
    is in quotes -- the last thing we need is more laws.  The public
    typically overreacts, so it'll be the hunting that goes, not just
    the displaying.
    
    What's the net effect of no more hunting on the people who, at the
    snowfall, think Killington, Stowe (eg. Ski) vs. Starving deer dying
    in the woods?  That's easy -- no more "gruesome kills" adorning the
    hoods of cars.  The thought of even more gruesome death by starvation
    in the woods won't even enter their minds -- when's the last time
    you saw a starving deer on the slopes?
    
    I agree that 99.9% of hunters feel more for the animals than the
    hunters, but it's the NON hunters that'll take our hunting privilege
    away...
    
    You've got to realize that Bambi will never die.  Even after we're
    long gone, our children's children will have that same irrational
    picture of life in the woods that Bambi has fostered.  THATS the
    image that non hunters have of life in the woods.  No disease, quick,
    clean death, no suffering.  And no carcass.
    
    If the non hunting public can remove the sight of dead game from
    their vision, the old "Out of sight, out of mind" adage will hold.
    They will accomplish that by outlawing hunting.
    
    We're in the minority, and preaching to the choir in this note.
    We've got to realize that we're in the minority, and must tread
    softly least we loose our privilege.  The old "I'll do anything
    I d*mn well please" will cause you to win the battle but loose the
    war.  Ask any smoker about the new anti-smoking laws -- they were
    passed for the same reasons -- smokers who didn't give a d*mn about
    non-smokers...
    
    Don't force the sight of your game on those who don't like to see
    it -- by all means show it to your friends, etc. who would like
    to see it.  Displaying it on your drive home will revolt many more
    people than you'll impress, and they ARE, after all, voters!
    
    If legal, cover your game.
    
                             Roak
    
    Before we go off on a tangent, I'm a skier too, just using skiing
    for illustrative purposes.

    I don't think it should be, but I also didn't know that other states
    require it. That's another one of those laws that I don't understand.
    I don't mind it being displayed, becuase I can see what is being
    taken.  But the folks that come to the house, talk about seeing
    bloody deer/elk going down the road.
    
    As I believe .0 stated in the earlier note, Colorado doesn't want
    you to display your game. Colorado sets up road blocks to check
    for game. All vechicles must stop at the game check station, hunting
    or not. So they don't need to see it. I think they even talk about
    this in the hunter Ethics section of the big game information forms.

    I see no point in it. (unless you hunt in a volkswagon :-) )
    
    Mark

    There's really not much to debate, if the law states that game should
    be displayed, then so be it. If it should be covered then cover
    it, it's that simple.
    
    Personally, I don't believe that it should be displayed at all,
    but will go along with at least a portion being displayed. I guess
    its all a matter of common sense and showing some class when it
    comes to loading the deer/elk onto the vehicle. Lets face it, an
    open deer carcass thats all bloddy and ragged is not the best scene
    in the world and something should be done to keep the gore out of
    the public eye.  By placing the deer strategically onto a tailgate
    with the open end facing the truck bed for instance, or just putting
    the tongue into the mouth when the thing expires keeps the gore
    down to minimum. 
    
    If the laws don't change and hunters have to display their game
    openly, then at the very least, the public should be made aware
    that this is a law, and not some slob hunter just showing off.
                                                      
    Fra
    

    Fra... I agree... In MA there is no debate.... you MUST disply your
    game... 
    
    My guess for the law is so that illeagl doe/bear .... whatever are
    not taken and stuffed into the trunk.... or put under canvas in
    truck.. or whatever.... Not that people still don't do this, but
    if warden/police see an animal which is not properly displayed,
    you are AUTOMATICALLY in trouble... the warden doesn't even have
    to look for the horns.... If eveyone had covered game, I think it
    would be easier to smuggle the game home.... etc.
    
    I don't know, just my thoughts....
    
     Smitty

    What poacher in his/her right mind would display game?  Seems to
    me this law is a paradox of sorts.  
    
    Mark.

    Where there is a law one way or the other, yes, follow the law.
    I talking about the states (such as Colorado) where you have a choice
    -- my suggestion is that you keep it out of the public's view.
    
    Re: .5
    
    Yes, it is a paradox (read stupid) -- kinda like concealed carry
    laws for handguns.
    
                            Roak

    .5 ... I gues I didn't make my point clear enough. What I was saying
    (and it's just my thoughts on the law) is that if EVEYONE covered
    the game, then the warden would have to stop each/every car to check
    for game. Another words, if he/she should see a hoof, hair near
    trunk, etc. he can AUTOMATICALLY take action.. even if you have
    a license. It's like carrying a concelaed weapon.... if you do it
    and don't have a permit your in trouble PERIOD.
     
    'what pocher would display game' - Think about it... If your NOT
    going to get stopped ... because there are MANY cars/trucks displaying
    game... perhaps the pocher WOULD display it... JUST MY THOUGHTS...
    Being from NE, I was not aware that this law was NOT in effect
    everywhere.. 
    
    I always get a chuckle from the anti-hunter cartoon... showing a
    deer driving a truck... with a hunter tied to the top :*)
    
     Smitty

    RE:1
    
    Roak,i know what your saying and in reality i know your right,but
    you know i'm getting tired, real tired,no matter what we do, no matter
    how much we care, we the hunter are always wrong,wrong wrong,.I'll
    never give up,and will always defend the sport,but sometimes i'm
    just tired of people putting us down on a subject they do not
    understand.I mean you know we have the facts and figures in black
    and white and also the pitman-robinson act but that is still not
    good enough,i guess thats why i go wild in this file when i hear
    of fellow hunters bowing to the non hunters wishes.I guess if this
    is what we must do then we should do it(if its the law)after all
    the benifit of the many out weigh the benifit of the one.I hope
    you guy's girl's understand where i was coming from.My trouble is
    i was born 200 years to late.The 80's is not the time of the PURE
    HUNTER,and I think hunting 12 months a year,it's all i do,no sports
    not any other activity,Just Hunting,its all i live for.So until
    next deer season,hears to all of you who has ever thrilled to the
    sight of the morning sun breaking over the ridge,and to the
    exhilarating sight of that massive buck coming your way.
    
    Take care,
    Rick....
    

    re .4
    Display in MA. only means a piece of the deer (ear,tail,hoof). I
    don't know what started the flack this year, but, during the last
    few weeks I have read newspaperarticles from F&G asking hunters
    to not display the whole carcass.
    
    re.8
    Smitty, I also am tired of having to bow down to the wishes of every
    political action group that comes along. I am also tired of judges
    letting punks and hard core criminals out free and fry the poor
    slob that wastes one protecting himself and/or someone else,BUT,
    and this is the point I am trying to make is, we only have ourselves
    to blame. If we (every hunter/gun owner) took positive actions during
    the year by joining and ACTIVELY participating in the various groups
    that are there to protect what we consider our rights we might not
    be having these types of discussions now. Someone mentioned 85000
    hunters in mass, I bet not all are members of the NRA or GOAL. Please
    don't take it to imply that I am out there every day fighting for
    our beliefs but, i am certainly going to make an attempt this coming
    year, this notes file has really opened my eyes to our situation.
    
    Jack

    Everyone,             
    
    Jack in .9 makes some good points, however he left out one very
    important organization .
    
    The National Wildlife and it's State affiliates.
    
    In my opinion second to The NRA the N.H. wildlife federation
    is the second most important organization we can support here
    in New Hampshire...
    
    Here in NH it is the only political watch dog that keeps tabs
    of all the state political issues. 
    
    If you are interested in joining or want to find out more about
    the NH wildlife Federation pls send me mail and I will try
    to get out the information.
    
    If you do not live in NH I am sure you could contact the National
    Wildlife Federation to acquire your states affiliate's address.
    
    Sincerely, Bear
    
    P.S. Attend a few meetings as a visitor and I am sure you will
    be glad to join. Most of us are unawhere of the work they are 
    doing in our for us...
                       

    	I jsut read in the EQUITATION note about a buck that fell off
    of someone's car at 55 M.P.H. and nearly caused the writer to go
    off the road. I think that if legal,game should be out of sight,but
    if not,at least TIE THE THING DOWN FIRMLY! The note I refer too,also
    condemns most hunters for being slobs;cutting fences,littering,
    abandoning game,running around at night with spotlights,and shooting
    across roads and peoples' yards. I don't know where this guy lives,
    I suspect it's on the Easy coast,but all of the other noters (except
    me)agree with him. We obviously have a serious image problem in
    some areas. Maybe we should help by picking up after the slobs,and
    helping the authorities catch the the others.
    
    	George
    

    	Without reading the note/s it's hard to say whether all the
    problems indicated are real or not. I suspect some are and others
    are not. At some point you have to call some of these "hunter in
    general" condemning notes for what they really are (i.e. stereotyping,
    ignorance, and prejudice) and just leave it at that. I'm sure that the 
    guy who had the deer fall from his care was about as thrilled about it 
    as the person writting the note.

    RAYJ

         How about we all do each other a favor and take a non hunter
    with you sometime and show him the true adventure and spirit of
    the sport, perhaps the end result will not present itself as
    an atrocity or gore. I personally have done this with a staunch
    opponent who was a writer for the Pheonix, and believe it or not
    he converted his opinion completely, and expressed his views in
    the Pheonix in a lengthy article.  
    
    

    
    I did it with my wife, she never understood why someone would want
    to shoot a bird that's just sitting there. She also never understood
    why I rarely bring home game. She does now. The first partridge we 
    put up was about 5 feet from her and scared her brains out when it
    flushed, she couldn't believe how fast they are and get out of sight.
    She still doesn't hunt, but understands it better.
    
    --Bob
    

    Better yet, put someone in a tree stand with a camera, 
    on a morning before bow season, and tell them to 'shoot'
    a deer, or whatever else comes by.
    
    (This is also a good way to scout your area :-) Just be
    sure they don't spook the game and foul the stand.)