Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Personally i find this just as offensive as some of these ranches
    down in Texas and New Mexico that offer trophy animals for big $$$...  
    You don't even have to scout the place out, they just drive you out in
    a 4 wheeler, drop you off in a "condo" along some strip lines where there 
    are opportunities for shots of up to 400+ yds, and pick you up later in 
    the day, hell you don't even have to walk around...  Maybe some of you 
    can call this hunting, but i find it to be really distasteful.
    
    This along with some of the videos out today, make us look like a pack
    of blood thirsty killers.  Theres alot more to the hunt than just
    pulling the trigger, but by the way some of these places operate you'd
    never know it.
    
    Fra 

    Bob, your absolutely right, i wouldn't condemn another for 
    dealing with these establishments, but its not my idea of hunting at
    all.  The funny thing is, that they don't even compare with my
    impression of what a guided hunt is all about. You know, packing into
    the boonies on horseback, tents, outdoor cooking, full day of
    tracking/hiking/riding... "POSSIBLY" getting a shot... this is my
    perception of a guided hunt... 
    
    I may be way off base here, but in some of these videos down on these
    ranches, anyone could knock off a beauty, regardless of how experienced
    a person is...  
    
    I don't consider Bear hunting to be the same, as it takes a little bit 
    of backbone to hunt them, nor do i consider any kind of guided bird 
    hunting to be classified as such, as you still have to be skilled 
    enough to shoot them. 
    
    fra

    Rich, I stick up for hunters, regardless of what they hunt, or how.
    However, these money hunts seem to show a lack of respect for the
    game, something that is essential to hunting for me. What's more,
    that seeming lack of respect makes enemies for me, something I
    don't need. 
    
    We hunters need to protect our image. We're under a lot of scrutiny
    from those who want to totally *stop* hunting altogether. Anything
    that can be used against us will be. That's what bothers me.
    
    Dana

    This is what I was trying to start with the Game Farm note of long ago.
    I don't think these types of hunts are really a hunt at all, it's
    a pick and shoot. But, I do understand that some people don't want
    to spend weeks in the woods. They have the money for these types
    of hunts and that's what they go for.  To me, it just isn't what
    the sport is to be.
    
     The P.D. shoot was a total success for what it was meant for. This
    town, where they held the shoot, is in a really depressed part of
    Colorado. They needed to bring in a little money. There where more
    then enough PD's so they did the shoot.  For what it was meant for
    it worked. Every hotel and motel room in town and other near by towns
    where booked, Friday thru Sunday.  Vendors selling all kinds of stuff.
    Alot of money stayed in that town, when the smoke cleared. I did not
    have any problems with this shoot.
    
    For the local papers, 2,600 pd where shot. There where 106 shooters
    in two man teams. I don't remember see anything on how many where
    arrested. 
    Also from the local paper, as soon as the ANTI's got on National
    TV they left, that's all they where really looking for.
    
     One thing I got a kick out of, was the ANTI's used bull horns and air
    horns to try and scare the PD's into there holes. Well, it worked the
    other way, they came out the holes to see what was going on. PD's
    are not the smartest critters.
    
    I know what PD's can do to ranch land. I have setup with a farmer
    south of Colorado Springs to shoot PD's on his ranch. He has many
    an acer of land that is unusable due to the PD's. He has horses
    and cows which can not roam in all this land. Just due to the PD
    holes.  His hay fields have round patchs in them where the PD's
    have eaten everything around their holes. That means his crop will
    be short and he could end up having to but from another farmer. That's
    bad when you have all the land you would need. Do you think these
    antis will pay for this guy hay to keep a few PDs alive, no way.
    
    I will admit, I have killed many a PD out there, I at times I wonder
    if it really helps at all. I do not consider this hunting, but damage
    control.
    
    Now that the PD shoot is over, there still is alot in Colorado going
    on. The antis want the wildlife commission ELECTED to positions instead
    of appointed. To me the ONLY reason for that to get stop hunting at
    a future date in the state of Colorado.  There is nothing wrong with
    the current commission and the way it is run. The elk, deer, antelope,
    beer, sheep, goat and mountain lion populations are all increasing,
    and are at the highest levels over the last I don't know how manay 
    year.
    
    Well, is that enough said. I'm getting REAL close to losing it
    with the antis anymore. But, that is what they want and I'm NOT
    going to give them the satisfaction ! 
    
    HAPPY HUNTING !
    
     MARK
    
    PS. Colorado Limited license tags are to be in the mail MONDAY 7/23.
    pss. don't check my spell above, I didn't :-)

    Rich,
    
    I meant no malice regarding what is lawful to do, but in this day and
    age, when everything thing we do is being so highly scrutinized by
    anti's (don't be so foolish to believe that they are the minority) we
    must be extra careful to avoid bad press in the publics eye.
    
    I don't hunt rabbits/bears or turkeys, but that dosn't mean i won't 
    go to bat for those that do...  I just don't have the time.
    
    Your right we all have to stick together, or we will most certainly 
    lose this battle.
    
    As far as the videos go, this is gonna bite us in the ass, too many
    bozo's can go out and make one, and the image some of them project to 
    the public is disgraceful.  Alot of these producers are out to make a 
    buck and this is gonna ruin it for all of us.
    
    Fra

    
    just reread my reply .8  When I said "I don't have the time", i meant 
    to hunt rabbits/bear and turkey.... not that i don't have time to 
    fight for the cause.
    
    Fra 

    
    re .10
    
    If you're still having a hard time believing; think about what voting
    % wasn't at the prairie dog shoot, think about what side of the issue
    (hunting/anit-hunting) gets more press, and continue to think about how
    trapping has been greatly reduced (in some areas stopped altogether).
    
    The hunters at the shoot are the minority as far as the general
    population goes...the politicians listen to the general population, if
    the anti's campaign is successful (they don't have to stop the hunt to
    be successful) they win a few more people who are willing to call their
    legislators.
    
    Hunters are a special interest group.  There are a heck of a lot more 
    non-hunters than hunters.  Our image has to be tip top if we are to
    survive as a special interest group in the distant future.
    
    
    
    Kevin
    

    Rich, when it hits the ballot, the 'undecided' will have to
    decide. *Then* the image problem, if there is one, will bite 
    us where it hurts. I'd much rather the undecided majority
    of non-hunters perceives *us* as law-abiding *sports* -men
    and -women and the antis as uncouth, rude, untruthful, ignorant, 
    and silly. When the antis present us as beer-swilling slobs
    who revel in bloodshed, and have no respect for animals, we 
    have to make liars of them. *WE* know better, but the majority
    of non-hunters only know what they see on the tube or read in the
    paper. We are in a war for the public opinion. Let's not give the
    antis any ammo.
    
    Dana

    Dana...EXACTLY!
    
    The vast majority of voting Americans are on the fence regarding
    the sport of hunting.  I find that many people are willing to listen
    to reasoned and unemotional arguments in support of hunting. 
    
    It's the anti's who'll close their minds to such arguments.  If
    there's anything I've discovered after years of defending my desire
    to hunt, it's that most people will at least try to see your point
    of view, if your point of view is presented in a polite and
    well-thought-out manner.
    
    Mark.

    I just re-read this note...There is one thing that I haven't read
    about.  Maybe because nobody knows it. But the Anti's are always
    wanting/are sticking their OVERLY LARGE MOUTHS, and VERY SMALL MINDS
    into affairs they have no concept of;  Other than emotional feelings.
    They wanted to stop this "dog" hunt in colorado, the HEAD BIMBO of the
    friends of animals here, requested to the Govner' that they the state
    provide the National Guard too ensure the safety of the protesters; 
    Well, needless to say there were no National Guardsmen present.  But
    the state of Colorado did provide a large cache of Police officers,
    Rangers, D.O.W personnel.  Here is the tickler.....Who do you think
    is being STUCK WITH THE BILL??? Yep, the organizers of the hunt...
    
    This is VERY typical of the ANTI's;  They want IT all their way....But
    they can't seem to support their own desires with their own money..
    "Protect us from those blood thirsty killers, while we protest....Oh by
    the way let them pay for IT!!"
    
    
    Jeff
    
    

    re -1, I read that in the paper too. Damn near choked. The cost of law
    enforcement was like $30K. From the numbers I've seen only ~20
    anti's showed up anyway. Also heard that once the national news coverage
    got them walking the line and someone voiced their view, they got out
    of town. Duxbury didn't even show up.
    
    Mark, grrrrrr...

    Face it, the anti-hunters (and anti-gunners) are experts at the
    30-second sound bite. What's more, the media encourages them.
    (Sometimes I think the &&^^$ media *coaches* them.)