Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    This isn't my story but the people it involved are not employees.
    
    Thre men from our club went on an antilope mule deer combo hunt
    in Montanna. They came back with 6 antilope and three mulies.
    
    Now what was amasing is that one of the antilope was hit smack in
    the chest ( lungs area ) and ran off. They tracked and tracked.
    
    The next morning they went up in an airplane and found the antilope
    grazing along with the heard. It was acting like nothing was wrong
    in the least.
    
    They took photographs and you can see the area larger than a soft
    ball from the plane where the animal was hit. 
    
    Amazing... 
    
    At anyrate it took them all day but they were able to get the wounded
    animal...
    
    One more thing. WE cooked this properly prepaired meet one night
    at the club and everyone was in agreement it was out of this world.
    Now I have heard it wasn't too good tasting.....
    
    That isn't true at all. It was the best meet I had eaten in a long
    time... So do it right...
    
    Purhaps an animals taste is depended on many varibles but these
    were taken care of properly ( buy a guide of course ) .
    
    Please include in your replies how it tasted.. Good,,,Bad,,,ahh
    so , so
    
    Good hunting, Brett
    
    

    That should have said
    
    Good Hunting brett.
    
    
    Bear,
    
    

    I don't have a story yet...but hope to in a couple of weeks. I am
    going on an antelope hunt in Wyoming. It is a bow hunt, from pit
    blinds near watering holes.
    
    We leave the 17th of September. I'll post any results here...
    
    
    Guy

    re: .3
    
    Yea, I saw in another note where you were going.  I am waiting to
    hear about your success.  In most of the things I've read, they
    say you should go for a rack that is at least twice as high as the
    ear and you've got a wall hanger.  I'll bet you can get a good view
    if they get close enough for you to plant an arrow.  There are two
    guys here that go to Wyoming every year and one guy just missed
    a B&C head by a few points.
    
    re: .2
    
    No question about the meat.  My neighbor brought over some chops
    from last year's hunt.  We grilled them with a little barbecue sauce.
    This was a major injustice to the meat.  It was fantastic and should
    not have been punished in this way.  The only problem is, you don't
    get much meat per beast.  
    
    Brett.

    I was lucky enough 2 years ago to bring one home. The meat is
    great, I'd rank it over Deer anyday, Elk though I don't think so.
    
    Remember while your out there, If you can see them, they have already
    seen you. I had this problem and chased a herd for a good 15 miles
    before I got the jump on them. I was able to pull out the herd buck
    and he's on the wall.
    
    Something else that will help you out is that Antelope don't jump
    fences. They'll go under them, but not over.
    
    re:-1
    If you get a rack twice as high as the head, you'd better get him
    in the books. He'll be a dandy.

    Good luck.. Mark

    That's twice as high as the ear.....not the head.
    
    Geez.
    
    That means if the ear is 6 inches, the rack will be 12 if it
    is twice as high.  
    
    You tracked the herd for 15 miles?
    
    I assume you got a ride back.  That's a long drag.
    
    Brett_who_won't_hold_out_for_a_rack_twice_as_big_as_an_Antelope_head

    From what we've heard from the outfitter (last night), the herd
    is in excellent shape. The dry weather has helped to concentrate
    the animals. He said the only problem we'll have is the number of
    does/fawns between the hunter and the selected buck. He expects
    we'll see up to 100 antelope a day.
    
    
    Guy
    
    

    re: .6
    
    I don't know where I got "head". I re-read your reply, you did say
    ears. I'm loosing it, I need to be in the woods. The rut is on.
    
    I chased them around in a big circle and when I caught up with
    them it was only a mile or so from the truck. Antelope are not real
    big and I just put my orange vest on him and threw him over my
    shoulders and walked out. Which isn't the smartest thing to do.
    You know how, when your carrying something heavy on your shoulders
    and you kind of bounce it up to readjust it ?  Never guess where
    my head went.  Talk about being a bloody mess.

    Mark
    

    re: .5
    
    I used to believe that story about antelope not jumping fences,
    but no more.  While hunting in  Eastern Montana I saw many of them
    jumping fences.  My guide assured me that he has heard that story
    before and has no idea where it started.  He did say that when not
    pressed, they seem to prefer crawling thru.
    
    
    Ken Corbett

    Well Guy, there goes that tip :-)
    
    Brett.

    	The Colorado wildlife magazine had an article about antelope,
    and mentioned that although most antelope will go under a fence,
    there seems to be a growing number who will jump. They've concluded
    that the characteristic seems to be regional, being more common
    in some areas and herds.
    	I've seen antelope caught on the road, and trying to get under
    the fence to escape. They got more and more frantic as my car
    approached,but still wouldn't jump. They finally just rushed at
    the fence, and went under. The moral seems to be, don't anticipate
    what the game will do,, be ready for anything.
    
    	George
    

    
    
    	Seems to be some antelope hunters out there. Just a quick request.
    Brett and I had asked on any info on bullet type for Antelope.
    If any of you folks have info on the subject add it to note
    186 TO SHOOT EM STRAIGHT.
    
    	Thanks
    	Steve

    .9 I've never seen them jump a fence yet. 
    
     While on the hunting trip in a previous note, I came across a first
    year Antelope buck. He was in a fenced corner walking back and forth.
    As we got closer to him he tried every way he could to get through
    the fence and never made it. He ended running right through us.
    He had more than enough running room to jump that fence, but didn't.
    
     Maybe they do jump, I know they have the speed to do so. If it
    where me, I'd bet they go under before over.

    My bow is tuned, camoed, and I'm shooting good groups. I'm already
    mostly packed. Looking forward to flying out to Wyoming Saturday.
    
    The first group of 12 antelope hunters went the 1st week of the
    season. They connected on 13 antelope. 10 of the 13 qualified for
    Pope and Young scoring. Each hunter saw an estimated 1000 animals
    (about 200 a day).
    
    This week is going to crawl by!!!
    
    Guy

    Wow!
    
    I wish you the best of luck.  I'll be waiting to hear how you did.
    My hunt doesn't take off till October 7th and the season opens the
    9th.  I have two guns sighted in with Sierra bullets.  I am going
    to load them up with Noslers this week and make sure they hit the
    same spot at 200 yards.
    
    Ordinarily I'd be going crazy with anticipation, but things are
    fairly interesting around here and it keeps my attention.
    
    Keep us posted.
    
    Brett.

  
    
      Hope Guy doesn't mind me jumping in here,,,,,,
    
    	Just heard he 'scored' yesterday evening....... 
    	7 of 12 in his party got their antelope on the first day.
    
    dave n

    Boy I don't know but steeling guys twang is worst than steeling
    his thunder. 
    
    Awe but he can still tell us the whole story when he returns.
    
    Great news, This means we will be having a taste of analope
    at our second annual GAME SUPPER to be announced at the begining
    of 1989 sometime after all the seasons are over.

    RE: Stealing the thunder
    
    	I thought about that before entering the earlier reply,
     But I figure the story is going to be the more exciting
     news. I was real happy to hear Guy was successful so soon.
    
    RE: The game dinner
    
    	My supervisor just returned from a successful bear hunt in
     Maine, so hopefully I'll be able to obtain some of the meat from
     his good fortune for the game dinner also !!!

    I'm back.  Glad Dave stuck a note in about the trip. It was in fact
    the trip of a liftime. I filled my A tag with a nice buck Monday
    afternoon (the second day). I also filled a B tag with a small doe
    Wednesday. There should be plenty for the game dinner. And if you've
    never had antelope sausage, it is outstanding.
    
    Here's all the details...
    
    Twelve of us left Friday night. We actually flew out of Hartford
    Saturday morning. Of the hunters going there were only 3 (including
    me) who had not previously scored on whitetail deer with their bow. 
    That didn't instill me with confidence. We arrived at 1:30 Mountain 
    time and got to the ranch about 4:00. We got settled, practiced 
    shooting for an hour or so, ate dinner and turned in.
    
    The ranch we were hunting is 16,000 acres and located east of Douglas
    Wyoming in Converse county. It is a cattle ranch but is managed for 
    antelope hunting. The antelope season is 4 weeks long. They take
    up to 12 hunters opening week, skip two weeks then take 12 more
    the last week. We hunted the last week. Then they take seven rifle
    hunters during the gun season. To correct a previous note,
    10 of the first 12 hunters took antelope, althought 2 bought additional
    B tags and took a second antelope. 4 of the bucks made Pope and Young.
    
    We got up at 4:30 in the morning and ate by 5:30. We loaded up and
    headed out. I was dropped off first. I was hunting an area called
    the Uranium pasture. My pit blind was affectionately called "the
    coffin" by the guides. They weren't sure it was big enough for me,
    but we decided to give it a try. I was hunting a water tank for
    cattle. The hole was about 3 feet deep and had sage brush around
    the rim. We were told not to move as the antelope had superior
    eyesight. I had a shooting lane about six to nine inches wide. I
    paced off several distances before I got in the hole. Looks like
    I'd be getting about a 20 - 25 yard shot. 
    
    As the day wore on I saw zip... I looked around alot. At 10 oclock 
    I saw two antelope but they wouldn't come in. I put my glasses on 
    them. They were staring right at me. Damm. I saw 4 more that 
    afternoon but they wouldn't come in either. They picked me up at 
    7:15...over thirteen hours in a hole.
    
    I got back and found out we had taken five antelope that day including
    one that will rank in the top twenty Pope and Young. Everyone had
    seen antelope and most had taken shots. I went to bed tired and
    a little worried.
    
    The next day arrived and I was in my blind by 6:00. I left my
    binoculars back at the bunk house and decided to just lay in the
    hole as quiet as possible. Finally at 11:00 two scruffy looking
    does came in and drank. Man are they skiddish!
    
    Nothing else happened til 3. Then a yearling buck came in and walked
    ten yards in front of me. I was seriously considering taking him,
    but decided to wait. He hung around for a while and then walked
    off. At 4 I took my mask off and ate my last sandwich. As I took
    my first bite, here he came, a really nice buck. Damm, my tab was 
    off my hand and my mask was by my side. I layed down and quickly 
    put my mask and tab on. I slowly reached for my bow and sat up.
    He was still there. I started my draw and he snapped his head up
    and looked right at me. I was at half draw and starting to shake.
    I eased my string back forward and watched as he simply walked away.
    I was bummed out.
    
    As I sat there, swearing at my stomach, he camback within ten minutes
    with two does. This time I was ready. As soon as he lowered his head
    I leaned back and came to a full draw. This time when he snapped
    his head up to look at me my arrow was already on the way. A perfect
    hit from 20 yards struck behind the front shoulder took him down
    within fifty yards.

    As I stood to watch him speed off, the whole place errupted with
    antelope going everywhere. There were another twenty with him. 4:30
    and he was mine. He will probably just miss Pope and Young. Minimum
    score is 64 and we guessed him in the low 60s, a nice antelope.
    
    I'll enter my second one in a seperate reply. I'll also enter some
    guide info in the appropriate note in case anyone is interested.
    
    Guy

    Wow!  Great!
    
    I guess that makes the trip worthwhile.
    
    Can you tell us a little bit about how they score and Antelope?
    
    I'm not sure how they "rack up" the points.
    
    Brett.

    re: -1
    
    They measure the height of the horns and take 4 measurements
    around the circumference of each horn. They add them up. Minimum
    qualifying score for Pope and Young is 64. I do not know what the
    minimum score is for Boone and Crocket. I believe they measure both
    horns.
    
    Guy
    

    As I said in an earlier note, I was lucky enough to draw a tag for
    rifle antelope this year. My partners and I arrived late Thursday
    and spent Friday scouting the area. At sunrise on Saturday I was
    in the field and immediately saw two 'lopes checking me out. Though
    one was a buck, he was marginal (in Colorado, the horns must be
    five inches long and in the shadows I wasn't sure enough to shoot.
    My next chance came at 11:15 when we spotted one just inside the
    boundary of our area. I started working below him and my partners
    came in above. It was a matter of time, he froze for one second
    and I got my heartbeat back out of the danger zone. After two
    shots and misjudging the range I finally got it together long
    enough to put one just above the shoulder which went on to break
    the neck and do some serious damage to the front of the throat.
    He was gone before he hit the dirt which is always a plus.
    The rack isn't a record by any means but it's mine and that means
    more than a record.
    FWIW, I used a .264 Magnum Remington 700 shooting a 100 grain softpoint
    from Hornady. It certainly did the job.
    My partners filled their tags the next morning, all three kills
    were right around 300 yard shots. One of the other animals required
    a second shot but I'll never know why. It was textbook placement
    but I guess 'lopes can't read.
    BTW, on Saturday morning I saw four animals crawl beneath a fence
    and on Saturday night, I watched one walk up to fence, look it over
    and jump it from a standing start. Beautiful. I do have witness
    for any nonbelievers.
    Now I resight for the 160 grn RN I use for elk and chew my nails
    for a month.
    
    Thanks for listening, the people in my office think I'm a monster
    for hunting animals. It's great to have a place to jabber about
    it.
    
    Bill

    Hey Bill,
      Do they also think your a monster for eating at MacDonalds?
    
    Jeff

    Jeff,
    No, but logic upsets some people. 
    
    Bill
    

    
    Or in other words,
    
    "Don't confuse this emotional issue with facts."
    
    Jeff, I thought you did a great job recently supporting
    the veiws of hunters recently in canine.
    
    Bear

    	Besides,,there ain't hardly any meat in a McDonald's burger
     :^)

    I'm starting to get stoked.  I am leaving Thursday morning to drive
    across Eastern Washington, Idaho and then most of Montana to Baker.
    The season opens on Sunday and we plan to scout on Friday and Saturday.
    
    With all the succes in this note, I hope that I can uphold the
    tradition of a successful hunt!
              
    Extra doe permits are available for $25, and we may pick one up
    just for extra meat in the freezer.  Montana sent a nice letter
    explaining that the food is real short this year due to droubt.
    This, combined with a warm winter last year will mean there will
    be a lot of starvation this winter.  They say they feel it is better
    to harvest the animals than to let them starve to an ugly deat and
    go to waste.  
    
    Lay that on the "bambi killer" kooks.
    
    The excitement builds.  
    
    Brett.
    

    Finally made it back from my hunt in Montana.  Wow, what a great
    trip.  I had a lot of fun.  Hunting Antelope was so much different
    than I expected.  Boy, if you just stick your head up over a ridge
    to look at heard a half mile away, they see you.  You get your
    binoculars up and look at them and every antelope in the heard is
    standing there looking at you.  Incredible.
    
    Anyway, my partner and I got there two days before the opening to
    scout around and get permission from all the ranchers to hunt on
    their land.  We had a chance to locate several big bucks running
    with different heards and decide which ones we wanted to go efter.
    The heards had numbers of 20-30 beasts before the season started.
    Typically, one or two bucks would be in the heard. 
    
    On opening day we headed to the spot where we put a heard to bed
    the night before.  By dawn they had moved, but we located them quickly.
    The next two hours of hunting will remain in my memory forever.
    To make the story short, I ran a total of about 6 miles and fired
    6 shots in that time before dropping my buck,  All I can say is
    that it was absolutley the most exciting two hours os hunting that
    I ever had.  I didn't even have time to stop and relieve myself!!!
    
    My buck had a rack that measured 13 inches.  Not the biggest trophy
    in the world, but no slouch either.  The base of the horns had lots
    of girth.  The buch was pretty old and the tips of his horns had
    turned ivory with age.  His head is now in Mullen, Idaho where it
    is being mounted for the den.
    
    There is a butcher where we hunt that will cut and wrap it over
    night for you.  He said that I had hit him pretty hard right in
    the tenderloin and that I lost them as well as plenty of steaks.
    The .300 Weatherby Mag is a nice flat load, but next year I will
    go with a 110 gr instead of a 150.  (The tradeoff is wind, which
    always blows and the 150 gr made the wind factor negligible)
    Therefore, I went to the local store and picked up a doe tag.  This
    year, you can buy as many as you want for $25 each because of the
    drought.  The heards will experience a lot of starvation if the
    numbers aren't trimmed.  I went right back out at 2:00 and had a huge 
    doe by 2:30.  
    
    I tookthe buck from about 200 yards.  He was running right by me at full
    tilt.  I led him by about 2 body lengths and hit him dead center,
    just below the spine.  He needed another shot to expire him.  He
    was one tough animal.                                      
    
    I took the doe at 400 yards.  I had shot at 300 yards and
    overcompensated for wind.....shot right behing her while she was
    standing still.  She crested a ridge and I shot.  For the first
    time in my life I actually heard the bullet hit the target.  It
    just went "THWACK" and she dropped.  No lost meat at all.
    
    The whole trip was great and I will probably do it next year.
    I strongly encourage anyone who wanted to go pronghorn hunting to
    do so.
    
    Brett.
    
    
    

    Nice job Brett!  Sounds like a lot of fun.  
    

	 Y
	.O    ,
	  \000
	  /\ /\


    Mark_who's_bumming_bigtime_after_having_to_cancel_Maine_trip

    Way to go Brett.
    
    Mark, That buck will look nice on the wall. :-)

    Do you do your own reloading, and if so, what bullet did you put
    into your monster masher (300 mag) for the Antelope?
    
    In the same vein, what bullet in 110 grain are you thinking of going
    to?

    Congradulation Brett..
    
    I am real happy for you.
    
    It really sounds like you had a hunt of a life time.
    
    Now maybe one of these years I can get out and see ya.
    
    Don't forget about the bird hunting... Phesants, ducks...
    
    Hows the job situation out there, I understand all of this notes
    file is looking for jobs in Seatle.
    
    Bear.

    Congratulations!!
    
    They are a tremendous animal to hunt. What part of Montana did you
    hunt? Did you have trouble getting permission to hunt? Were there
    lots of other hunters? Did you see other game? I gotta admit...I'm
    hooked on hunting out west.
    
    Guy (who will never forget his trip)

    re: .31
    
    I used two different bullets.  I was going to enter this in the
    official loading notes, now that I have some practical experience
    with the loads.  The bullets I used were 150 gr.  One box of loads
    had Sierra SPBT's.  The other box was Nosler partitions.  When I
    went to the range, I could get very accurate groups with the Sierras
    at 200 yards......2" groups.  However, the Noslers were just "in
    the black".    
    
    The loads were about 85 grains of 4350 or 4381, I have to check.
    The velocity is estimated at 3200 fps.
    
    Right up to opening day I hadn't decided on a round.  I finally
    decided on Sierra bullets.  The first shot I hit the buck with
    hit him in the back, thus destroying the tenderloins.  He then got
    up and tried to run.  I wanted to put him away from 200 yards because
    I hate to see anything suffer.  My second shot went in the hind
    leg and out....no big expansion until it exited the leg.  It then
    blew the otherleg right off at the knee!  I was pi$$ed that I missed
    a kill.  He was still trying to jump, so I gave him one in the heart.
    The bullet really expanded and wasted a lot of meat, however, the
    buck expired immediately, which is what I wanted.
    
    On the doe, I decided to try the Nosler loads.  The doe was a one
    shot kill, thank God.  It went right in the back behind the ribs.
     The bad news is that it broke the paunch and some of the contents
    came back out the bullet hole. (I don't mean to be gross, I am trying
    to compare bullet performance after impact)  The nosler stayed in
    the paunch.  I searched for it for a while because I wanted to see
    what it looked like, but I was unable to find it.
    
    From this limited data, there seems to be a tradeoff.  The Nosler
    is not so accurate, but it didn't do any damage.  Then again, the
    paunch stopped it.....damage may have been more evident in "meat".
    The Sierras were more accurate in my tests, but they blew the meat
    away.
    
    If I go with a 110 grain............hmmmmm........I guess I would
    try the Sierra SPBT if they make them.  Not sure if Nosler has a
    similar bullet in 110 gr.
                                          
    Brett.
    

    re: .33
    
    We hunted the SE region of Montana.  The permission was a bit harder
    to get this year because of the drought.  I have to say that you
    really don't get a feel for the seriousness of the drought  on the
    news.  One farmner told us that hi father and neighbor (73 years
    old) say that it was much worse thjan the dust bowl in the thirties.
    There are differences now that kept them alive for another year.
    However, many said that if it doesn't snow and rain *a lot* this
    year, we won't have to ask permission next year.
    
    Many Ranchers were affraid to let people run thier catalytic converters
    over the sage.  They all asked that we stick to the paths that were
    already there and to carry a fire extinguisher in the rig.  We got
    permission from farmers that had given my partner permission in
    past years.  Some new hunters were turned away because of the
    conditions.
    
    You know, some corn and hay fields had to be a hundred acres or
    more and you would see one small spot of corn growing in that was
    3" high and brown.  The fields looked they had been plowed last
    week.......not last April.  The water holes are almost all dried
    up.  Only a few had water and the ranchers have to pump well water
    into beens for their heards.  Most of the ranchershad to sell more
    than half thier heads and buy hay for the rest!  There are armies
    of tractor trailers bringing in hay from South Dakota and Minnesota.
    They just push the hay right off without stacking it to get going
    on another run!  They have to make lots more trips before the snow
    falls or it will not be a pretty picture.
    
    Anyway.  We saw lots of game.  I saw some Mulies that were beauties.
    One morning we saw 3 mulies at 100 yards.  Each of them had 4 points
    or better (Western points).  I saw foxes galore, had an argument
    with a Badger at about 20 yards, game birds wewre all over.  I saw
    plenty of Antelope.  On day I tried to drive a buck to my partner.
    I was moving along a ridge and does almost ran me over when they
    crested the ridge.  They had expressions like on "Tom and Jerry".....
    ....like "OOOOPPS!" when they saw me.
    
    Oh, there is this one rancher who is participating in the pheasant
    and game bird rejuvenation project.  The government pays him to
    grow wild bird food on X number of acres.  So this guy bought a
    couple domestic turkeys to hopefully draw in some wild turkeys.
    The F&W guy told him he was crazy because it doesn't work like that.
    Ha!  You gotta see it!  This guy must have 40 wild turkeys walking
    around his house.  And I mean *around* his house.  Geez, we were
    there for 20 minutes and they were under our truck and everything.
    The rancher says they come go as they please.  Some weeks they're
    there, some weeks they're not.  Darndest thing I ever saw.
    
    Brett.
    

    Well, am I to assume that nobody went after 'lopes in 1989? I wasn't
    selected so I had to be content with the deer/elk season. But last
    August, that wonderful little envelope showed up so I dusted off
    the .264 and tuned up. Finally got into the field last Saturday
    and had a great time. Even though I did harvest one, it wasn't the
    one I watched for over an hour. 
    
    This critter had phenomenal horns. He was with a large herd and
    more than once I laid the rifle across my knees and just watched.
    He hung out in the middle of the does (you don't get that big
    by being stupid!) and actually forced other smaller bucks out to
    the edge of the herd when they got too close. I saw him do this
    about five times. I only got one shot at this guy, if he's dead
    I didn't do it. I worked that herd for more than two hours, almost
    constantly on the move. Finally, he tired of toying with me and
    left, without waving and I had to settle for an okay buck that
    wasn't half as entertaining.
    
    Thanks for listening,
    
    Bill

    You didn't get the big buck, maybe, but it's still a good story that
    I'm sure many of us can relate too.  Nothing is more frustrated than a
    buck in the middle of a bunch of does.
    
    /brett

This is just to whet your appetite, and maybe get some of you New Mexico
noters stirred up.

This weekend, I had the unfortunate task of driving from Colorado Springs
to Amarillo and back.  However, our route included Hwy. 87 from Raton,
N.M. to Dumas, Tx.  We left Raton about an hour before dark.

I have made this drive several times and we always see antelope (why
aren't there any uncle-lopes?), but never like this.  We must have
seen 300 antelope between Raton and Clayton, N.M.  There were some
nice bucks, too.  Unfortunately, this is all private land (as far as
I know, that is).

Do you New Mexico guys know how to get onto this land?  If you don't,
and are interested in one, this ought to be a good place to go.

I have also seen lot of antelope west/nortwest of Roswell as you
head to Albuquerque.  Again, it's private land.

Jerry

	Friday afternoon my hunting partner, Ken and I drove out to the
	ranch we were to hunt on.  We drove around it and spotted several
	herds and one very nice buck.  We checked in with the rancher and
	dropped off his trespass fee, 2 bottles of JD.  He said that the
	animals were very tame this year but that would change after 10:00
	tomorrow.

	Saturday dark:thirty we drove back out.  My 9 year old son Matt
	went along too.  I dropped Ken off at a spot were we had seen a
	large herd the night before.  Matt and I drove around to where
	the big buck was last seen.  It was real cold so Matt stayed in
	the truck and I walked out into the pasture in the dark.  I layed
	down on top of a ridge near where we saw the buck.  I searched the
	area as the sun came up, but no buck to be found.  I walked over
	another ridge and sat down for a bit.  I could hear the road hunters
	racing up and down the road shooting from their trucks and that 
	pissed me off.  I was just about to go back for Matt when I spotted
	some movement on another ridge about 1/2 mile away.  It was an
	antelope walking towards me.  I raised my rifle and looked at it 
	through the scope, it was a buck.  Not the buck I was looking for.
	My movement caused it to start running at me.  It came to within
	about 75 yards from me.  I studied it for quite awhile and decided
	to go ahead and take.  Not a real exciting hunt, not a large horned
	buck.  After cleaning it I went back for Matt.  Took him by the
	kill and we decided to walk futher out into the pasture.   We had
	several buck/doe pairs come within 100 yards of us.  I explained
	to Matt that it was still mating season and what was going on.  It
	was fun watching the pairs play.  There was a large herd, ~50, out
	in the middle of the pasture.  They were on a large flat area that
	could not be sneaked up on.  We watched them as several more pairs
	broke out doing their running/mating ritual.  Two bucks cut two
	little does out of the herd and they ran towards us.  Several hundred
	yards out they spotted us.  What did they do?  They ran right up 
	to us.  Stopped about 50 feet away and walked about checking us out.
	Finally they took off.  We watched as other hunters tried to stalk
	the herd.  One hunter and his son had one run up to them also.
	Couldn't figure why he didn't shoot.  He waited till the antelope
	ran back away and probably 300 yards off and then couldn't hit it.
	Matt and I went back to the truck and got the animal cart, remember
	that thing.  He helped me roll the antelope back to the fence.  I
	was trying to figure out how to hang it to skin.  Matt suggested
	tieing it to one end of the cart and standing the cart on end.  That
	worked excellent.  Matt helped me skin it and we were done.  We 
	put a game bag on it and hung it under a bridge.  Found Ken later,
	He had been stalking the herd we saw but no luck.  Drove him to
	the other side of the pasture and he got shots at two different 
	bucks but missed them.  Ken will go back out Wednesday afternoon.
	The best part of the hunt was having my son with me, he really
	enjoyed it too.  We discussed future hunts and when he could hunt,
	5 more years.

    
    re .40
    
    Congrats Gordon...
    
    Hey did you ever decipher my note about that knot for fishing?  Didn't
    hear from you, was just wondering.
    
    Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Yea, the knot works great.  Now they break my line.  Just have to go
heavier.  Seems like 6# just isn't enough for these trout, they fight
like hell.

Gordon

    
    	Congrats Gordon!  It's amazing the way antelope lose 
    	their hair while you're dragging them around isn't it?
    
    	I don't know if you waterfowl or not, but your son
    	could do that right now.  He only has to wait til
    	he's 14 to hunt big game.
    
    	clay

I heard something about antelope last night that I'd never heard before.
So, I thought I'd post it here just to see if I got any feedback.

This guy was telling me that an antelope's hide has lanolin or some
similar oil in it.  And, if you get it on your hand, and then touch
that hand to the meat, the oil from your hand will ruin the meat.
Of course, the same holds true if you let the outer portion of the
hide touch the meat.  He even stated that when you dress one out,
you should only touch the hide with one hand and the meat with the
other.

I had never heard that, but I have heard conflicting reports regarding
the edibility of antelope meat.  The only antelope that I've ever
eaten was good, so I figured it had to be in the handling.

This guy did mention a couple of other things.  One was not to shoot
and animal that has been running a lot.  I've heard this about other
animals so this makes sense.  The other, which makes even more sense,
is that antelope are usually killed when the weather is still warm,
which makes it even more important to get them skinned and in the
shade as soon as possible.

Jerry

    Not being an antelope hunter (not by choice) I can't say whether they
    have lanolin or not, but sheep produce lanolin in their wool, and i've
    been told it will effect the taste of the meat if it's not properly
    handled...  Then again,  you hear all kinds of stories about what 
    ruins meat, yet people (myself included) very rarely heed these and 
    have had no problems with spoiled venison...  Not being a professional
    butcher, I find it very difficult to follow some of the precautions
    that people tell you... (i.e. no hair on the meat, feces, urine, tarsal
    gland oils touching your hands etc...) lets face it, when your in the
    woods, sterile conditions are hard to come by.  ;^)
    
    Fra
    
    ps, wounded deer that are pushed tend to be very gamey, due to the
    adreneline overload they experience.

    re .46
    
    I think your right on.
    
    I've been lucky to get a few and only one was standing.  I missed him
    the first time anyway, so I guess all the kills are "on the fly".
    
    I applied for a permit this year in Oregon.  It's in the SE portion of
    the state and it is in August, so heat will be a problem if I'm lucky
    to get the draw and the animal.
    
    Ken

       <<< Note 202.38 by CSC32::J_HENSON "What is 2 faced commit?" >>>
                                     -< New Mexico >-
    
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Hi Jerry, thanks for the tip. Being born and raised here in New Mexico,
    I've seen lots of antelope, but I have only been up towards Clayton 
    maybe once or twice, and it was when I was at the age where I could 
    care less about antelope or hunting for that matter. I have in recent
    years, driven up to Pueblo and Denver, and I always spot some 'lopes
    around Springer, N.M.. I've also hunted 'lopes down around the Roswell
    area that you mentioned, and boy, was that alot of fun. My
    father-in-law and I both bagged a couple of spikes, and I'll throw my
    vote in with the others that (c)antelope meat is some of the best meat
    I've ever tasted. I'm sure that their age probably had alot to do with 
    it though. As you said, most of these 'lopes are on private land, but 
    (and I'm really not too sure how it works between the rancher and the
    Dep. of Game and Fish) we got our licenses from the Dep. of Game and
    Fish, they told us what ranch we drew, then we went out a couple of
    weeks before the hunt and talked to the rancher, told him that we had
    drew his ranch and we'd be out there hunting in a couple of weeks, he
    was a really nice old guy, and had a ranch about as big as Rhode
    Island. Anyhow, I can hardly wait to draw another permit, maybe this
    time we'll try getting one in the Raton/Clayton region. Got me a fairly
    new .270 that would be perfect for such a hunt. 
    
    Carlos

    Well.  A friend and I just received out antelope permits for area 50 in 
    Colorado.  Will have to start scouting in mid Sept.  We have really
    seen some nice bucks in the area that we will be hunting.  
    
    It only took 2 points to get into this area.
    
    Only 2 more months.

    The mailman brought me a pleasent surprise the other day. 
    My loper ticket came in. It made my day. The way things 
    appear to be heading around here, I might just need those
    steaks and sausage come winter time. 
    
    Bob

    
    
    My tag for the Montana hunt in Oct just showed up. Anyone out there
    hunting in Region 7 area of eatern Montana? Looking for a hnuting
    partner....
    
    Keith

Date:  03-Oct-1992.
Time:  13:15.
Caliber:  270, 150 grain spbt, 55 grains 4831.
Shooting distance:  200 yds.
Distance traveled:  None.
Other:  1 shot; frontal; buck - 14" by 13"; large bases; dressed weight between
100 and 110 lbs.

I had spent the prior 2 Saturdays scouting in area 50 (Colorado) and had run
into 3 really nice (16" +) bucks.  I had picked out 1 in particular because
he was fairly inaccessible.

Went up on Friday night and did some scouting before dark but, I couldn't find
that one particular buck.  Anyway, I was at the spot where I had seen him the
week before.  About 7:15 I started making a sweep (walking) through his 
territory.  About 8:45 I spotted him about 2 miles away.  Started to stalk him
and some other fellow shot him before I could get into position.

Headed for the truck and went to another area where I had seen a really nice
buck (easily 17").  The only problem was, he and his does were in a real flat
area.  Stalking was almost impossible.  Got to within 400 yds a number of times
but I really need to close another 125 yds to take a good shot.  Ended up about
4 miles south, southwest of my truck.

Well, then I spotted another group working their way along the base of a small
hill about 3 miles away (northwest).  Decide to try for that guy.  Ended up 
closing the ground and running into the buck I shot.  I watched him for a 
while and he decided to go over a small hill.  This gave me the opportunity 
I'd been waiting for.  To make a long story short I was able to close to 
within 500 yds.  before he came back over the hill.

He then passed behind a tree.  At that point I was able to close within 375 yds.
of him.  I then laid flat on the ground.  He wasn't really sure what I was.
He then passed behind another tree and I cut another 125 yds. off of the 
distance.  He then came out from behind the tree and started to get a little
nervous.  By this time I was laying prone and had my rifle on the bipod.  The
animal ran down the hill - quartering towards me.  When he reached the bottom 
of the hill he turned to look at me - still wasn't sure what I was.

The rest is history.  Since the area I was hunting in didn't allow wheeled
vehicle access I had to pack the animal across the flats back to my truck.
I figured I could take him 1/2's or do it all at one time.  Ended up tying the
entire animal on to the pack and walking back to the truck.  Figured that the
total weight of the pack (animal, gun, binocs., etc was about 125 lbs.).  Took
me 2.5 hours to cover the 3.5 miles.  

Antelope hunting is a serious kick but, I can really feel it today.

Good hunting.

Mark
    

What's the rule of thumb for a trophy antelope?  A guy behind the counter
at a local sportings goods store told me that the NRA considers any buck
with horns over 12 inches in length a trophy.  Can anyone confirm?

Jerry

                <<< TALLUS::TALLUS$DUA0:[NOTES]HUNTING.NOTE;3 >>>
                                  -< HUNTING >-
================================================================================
Note 202.55                  Official Antelope note                     55 of 55
NECTAR::KOOSER "Free Willee,Lassie,Mickey,slick Wil" 15 lines  17-OCT-1993 22:47
                                -< Could be.  >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jerry,
    
    If you got him with a rock. :^}
    
    Not sure about the NRA stand ...
    
    But the rule of thumb that most of the people I have talked to is,
    14" + for a bow and 16" + for a rifle - in Colorado.
    
    That said, personally I believe that any antelope buck is a trophy.  
    They are a very beautiful animal.
    
    Congratulations. 
    
    Mark
    

Date:  07-Oct-1995.
Time:  8:55.
Caliber:  270, 150 grain spbt, 55 grains 4831.
Shooting distance:  300 yds.
Distance traveled:  20 yds.
Other:  Lung shot behind left front shoulder; buck - 12.5" by 13".

I had spent the prior Saturday scouting in area 50 (Colorado) and had run
across 3 bucks.  Decided to go back and hunt this one area because road hunters
would probably not spend the time to walk in.

Drove up about 4:00 am, hiked into the hunting area and waited for the sun to 
come up.  Spotted a buck and doe just after sunrise.  About 1/2 hour later the 
buck that I ended up shooting showed up and would try every so often to run in 
and steal the doe away from the other buck.  During this time the closest that 
they got to me was about 500 yds.

About 8:30 I decided to do the sneak on the satellite buck.  While he was
trying to sneak in and steal the doe I did the running crouched deal and 
cut about 200 yds. of the distance.  At this point the satellite buck was about
500 yds. away.  Ended up taking off my pack frame and laying the rifle on my 
back (bipod straddled my neck to keep rifle upright) and crawled on my hands 
and knees about 150 yds.  All the time I was watching him and I decide that 
when he saw me I'd stop and assume the prone shooting position - take advantage 
of the antelope's natural curiosity.  

The satellite buck spotted me at about 350 yds. and cut about 50 yds. of the 
distance over a period of 3 minutes.  At 300 yds. I decided to shoot even 
though I really wasn't in the best position to shoot.  First shot went 
over his back.  At first I thought I had whacked my scope but then I remembered 
an issue I had discovered while checking my zero the week before*.  Antelope 
ran about 10 yds. and I took another shot.  This shot went right through the 
rib meat on both sides of the rib cage.  Buck ran about 20 yds., kneeled 
down ...

Since the area I was hunting in doesn't allow wheeled vehicle access I had to 
pack the animal across the flats back to my truck.  Gutted and remove the
lower part of the legs, tied the entire animal on to the pack and walked back 
to the truck.  

Good hunting.

Mark

    
* re: note 270.576

Jim,

First of all, congratulations.

What type of bipod do you have?  I have a Harris and it suggests that you don't
hold on to the fore stock when shooting.  This causes the rifle to shoot high 
if you have sighted in using a bench rest with no bipod.  I guess a BOSS system
might lessen the rise.  To counter this I really hold on to the fore stock
when using my bipod.

Also, when I cleaned my gun last night I checked the float with and without the
bipod.  Holding the gun in my hand the barrel doesn't touch the fore stock.  If
I put the bipod on and set the rifle on the ground, the barrel is now resting on
the fore stock.  Ended up refloating my barrel last night so that when I shoot 
using my bipod the barrel will not touch the fore stock bed.


    

>>    <<< Note 202.56 by MULEY::KOOSER "Too many hobbies. Too little time." >>>
>>                             -< Lope result - 95. >-

Mark

    
>>* re: note 270.576

>>Jim,

>>First of all, congratulations.

Thanks, but my name's not Jim.  He's the (deceased) Muppet guy.  No sweat,
though, I get called Jim a lot.  Thinking of changing my name just to
avoid the confusion. ;-)

>>What type of bipod do you have?  I have a Harris and it suggests that you don't
>>hold on to the fore stock when shooting.  This causes the rifle to shoot high 
>>if you have sighted in using a bench rest with no bipod.  I guess a BOSS system
>>might lessen the rise.  To counter this I really hold on to the fore stock
>>when using my bipod.

It's a Harris Series 1A2, model 25c.  And right on the plastic case it states
"Positively will not change point of impact".  I have my doubts.  When I
shoot, I do not even touch the fore stock.  Maybe I should.  Also, I can't
find anywhere in the instructions where it says anything about not touching
the fore stock.  Maybe I need to read a bit more closely.

>>Also, when I cleaned my gun last night I checked the float with and without the
>>bipod.  Holding the gun in my hand the barrel doesn't touch the fore stock.  If
>>I put the bipod on and set the rifle on the ground, the barrel is now resting on
>>the fore stock.  Ended up refloating my barrel last night so that when I shoot 
>>using my bipod the barrel will not touch the fore stock bed.

That's not really an option for me.  My rifle has a fiberglass stock.

What I do know is that before I use it again in a hunting situation,
I'm going to practice with it.  This year, I had limited time to get
ready (also had to work up a load on a new muzzle loader), and only
shot from a bench.  It never occurred to me that my gun would shoot
differently using the bipod.  After my experience, and reading about
yours, I think it might.  I guess that experience really is the best
teacher.

Oh well, things worked out.  Congratulations on your buck.  Sounds like a
nice one.

Jerry

P.S.  How to you get them to just run 10 yards when you miss?

Oh yeah, I almost forget to mention a new wrinkle I tried this year.

The area we hunt is Eastern Colorado plains.  It is very open, but a lot
of the terrain has a slow roll to it.  Just enough so that one can crawl
up a ridge and peak over the other side to see if any antelope are there.
It's flat enough, though, that you have to crawl to avoid spooking
whatever's on the other side.

The real problem with this is that the country side is also dotted with
small cacti.  Too small to see from very far off, but big enough to
notice if you're on your hands and knees.  It's real easy to drag your
knees and shins across the cactus, and it does hurt.

So, to help in this situation, I wore a pair of baseball catcher's
shin guards.  They worked great.  Fortunately, I coached a Babe Ruth
team this past year, and still have the equipment.  I just 'borrowed'
the shin guards.

Believe it or not, I get this idea from an article in a hunting mag.  The
article suggested knee pads like the ones skate boarders use, and heavy
leather gloves like welders use.  I didn't try the gloves, but it seems
like a good idea.

Just thought I'd share this little tidbit with others.

Jerry

    
    
Jerry,

First off, apology for calling you Jim.

About the touching the fore stock.  When hunting big game without my bipod (only
use it on antelope because of the long shots) I hold on to the fore stock when
I shoot.  Therefore, when I sight in on the range I use the same shooting 
technique.  

I know people who only rest the fore stock on whatever.  I believe that it 
makes it much tougher to keep the animal in the scope field of view after 
the shot.  Also, as in my case, it allowed me to see where my bullet hit
when I fired my first shot. 

My Harris manual instructs the shooter to place the free hand near the butt of 
rifle (But, not to wrap fingers around the butt plate.).  It even has pictures
of shooting from prone and sitting positions using the bipod.  I have tried it 
and it doesn't work for me.  Maybe if one only shoots using the bipod it would 
work.

Guess I was just lucky the antelope only ran 10 yds.  Either that or he still
didn't know what I was since I never really gave him a standing profile.

Got any other seasons coming up?  I've got a plains (Bonny) whitetail deer 
season in December and I will not be using my bipod because of the amount of 
still hunting that I do.



re:  270.577

Guy,

Warning.  Ask the guide what the animals forage on.  Antelope taste like what 
they eat.  If there are whitetail in the area they are probably fine.  Antelope 
that live in sage, taste like sage.



Good luck all.

Mark
    

Yeah, I'm making a 1st season elk hunt this weekend.  I don't have high
expectations, other than to enjoy myself.  I've already struck out on
muzzle-loader deer, although I did find a good place to hunt.  I saw
one nice 4x4 or 5x5, couldn't tell which.  Too bad I couldn't get a
shot.

As for antelope meat, the ones I've taken are pretty good.  I had
some chicken-fried backstrap last night.  It was yummy.  Leftovers
were pretty good for lunch, too.

I'm trying something new this year.  Instead of hanging to age, which is
not a real good idea in this warm weather we're having, I skinned and
quartered the animal, and put it in a cooler.  I then put as much ice
as I could pack around it, and salted it down.  Every now and then
I drain the bloody water and add more salt and ice.  A friend of mine in
Texas does this for deer, and says it takes the wild taste completely
out of them.  I'll let you know how it turns out for me.

Jerry

Buck Antelope, 12.5" and 13" horns

Date:  07-Oct-1995.
Time:  7:15 
Caliber:  270, 130 gr boattails
Shooting distance:  200 yds
Distance traveled:  0 yds
Other:  Heart shot that took off right front leg on exit.


I guess I was leading the pack of 5 hunters in our group.  We drove out to the
ranch we had permission to hunt on, made plans and went our ways.  My hunting 
partner, Ken, rode out with one of the other guys and had left his rifle in
Tony's jeep.  After getting it back, we were good to go.   We drove along the
south property line and spotted three real nice bucks, one small one, and a doe
on the other side of the road that we had permission to hunt on.  Knowing that
antelope tend to like to cut in front of a vehicle, I slowed and stopped and
started a couple of times.  Sure enough, they trotted along the road and then
crossed and ran onto the ranch.  Using a fence post for a rest, I missed 
two running shots then connected when he stopped to look at me.  The others
ran over a hill.  Ken went after them.  They had run off towards two others
with us.  Ken set down and they came back.  He bagged one like mine with a
heart shot at 200 yards with a 30-06.  My antelope had real interesting horns,
they have big "points" all over them, like a non-typical deer.  Never seen one
like that before.  Two other hunters with us got theirs soon after and Jerry
got his a little later.  I also saw lots of antelope, a couple in the 14" range.
    

>>     <<< Note 202.61 by CSC32::G_ROBERTS "when the bullet hits the bone" >>>
>>                               -< Antelope '95 >-

>>Other:  Heart shot that took off right front leg on exit.

Gordon,

I forgot to look.  I can't believe you shot one in the body.  Every thing
else I've seen you take was with a head shot.  You must be losing your
touch. ;-)

Jerry