Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

     Linda...
    
    I have always worn a pair of 'packs', I think they are still called.
    My packs have waterproof leather uppers, with rubber which starts
    a little above the ankle. The rubber lower part of the boots allows
    you to walk in very wet torraine, and if you go above the rubber,
    the do NOT leak. They have the standard wool inserts, which are
    removeable. I always bring an extra pair of inserts on a hunting
    trip. They last almost forever, and my feet have never been cold!
    
    The only drawback is that they are rather heavy. They really give
    the legs a good work out. Most guys in my group where them, so I
    can't comment on any other makes/styles. Packs are also reasonably
    priced.
    
     Smitty

    Linda, check out the HIKING conference (PYRITE::HIKING) for
    boots. Be sure to use keywords, the moderator is fanatic on
    the subject :-)
    
    I like heavy Sorels myself, the Mark V models with the rubber
    lug sole, *NOT* Vibram, the stuff is softer and affords better 
    traction on rocks and such. Not cheap.
    
    If your feet are warmer than mine, the Gore-Tex and Thinsulate
    boots are great, warm, light and they breathe somewhat. Many
    good brands. 
    
    Whatever, change socks and stay happy :-)
    
    Dana

    
      I wear packs myself. If your feet have the tendancy to get cold
    fast (like mine do) then get packs. With packs there is a trade
    off. You get warmth and dryness, but you do sacrifice any and all
    ankle support. I find that in rough terrain I walk on "all 3 sides
    of my Sorels", but I sure don't care one bit what kind of slop I
    walk in. I bought some Mk X Sorels this year (the one's with the
    Vibram lug sole). they are OK for flat ground, but as was mentioned
    in .2 they really cause your feet to get twisted every which-a-way
    if you do any hoofing in uneven terrain. Get soft soled packs if
    you get packs...
    
      A hunting buddy of mine bought a pair of the new Browning leather
    boots with the Gore-Tex liner. He said they were great and didn't
    leak at all, and we hunt in some "squishy" stuff! So, if you like
    the leather boots (my feet tend to get cold in them) then the boots
    with the Gore-Tex liners in them might just be the ticket...
    
      Good luck...
    
    
    Joe

    	I just got my father a pair of Rocky Snow Stalkers from the
    Bass Pro catalog. There are a couple of boots called snow stalkers.
    These are the ones with the molded rubber/plastic bottoms and the
    leather uppers. They were $86.50 including shipping and handling.
    They have 400 grams of thinsulate in the boot and an additional
    200 gram thinsulate liner. The liner is also made out of Gore-tex
    which is supposed to be 100% waterPROOF. The boots also came with
    poly-propelene inserts for extreme cold. The liner can be removed
    for warmer days however if I understand the ad correctly, the liner
    is what makes them 100% waterproof. 
    	Unfortunately I cannot tell you how my father liked them as
    I was told before Christmas that he takes a size 9 and after Christmas
    that he takes a size 10 in boots. I sent them back for exchange.
    I did get to see them and they looked pretty rugged and were relatively
    light weight.
    	I have the earlier version of the same boot called the Journeyman.
    It has 200 grams of thinsulate in the boot and I'm going to get
    a thinsulate/gore-tex liner for them which is about the thickness
    of two pairs of heavy wool socks. This should make them 100%
    waterproof. It better as the liners are $20 a pair (not cheap).
    I use these for hunting and do quite a bit of walking in them. They
    are extremely light for what they are and have proved reasonably
    comfortable.
    	Both of the above boots are 11" height (I think). The Journeyman
    boots were about $35 and also come in a 8" high model. Mine as is
    are almost as warm as felt lined packs and with the liner should
    be as warm or warmer. Bass Pro lists the Snow Stalker as their BEST
    pack boot and comes with a satisfaction guarenteed or your money
    back offer. The same boots appear in the Gander Mountain catalog
    for about $4 more.

    RAYJ

    	Linda, 
    
    	If you decide on using "packs" do yourself a BIG favor!!
    Spend some extra money and get extra felt liners!! swap liners every
    day. This allows them to dry.
    
    	I learned the hard way that the way pack boots keep your feet
    warm is the felt draws the moisture (a good conductor of heat) away
    and and allows the air trapped in the felt to do it's work as the
    insulator.
    
    	If the liners are allowed to get wet  you might as well
    go in your bedroom slippers.
    
    	Steve                                

     Another article of clothing.
    
    What do you deer hunters out there wear for pants while hunting?
    I usually just wear an older pair of dungarees, with long-johns
    under them. I have a pair of military survival pants that I always
    take with me, but unless it's very, very cold I don't wear them
    because they get too warm, and are heavy. Some guys wear loose woolen
    pants, but the few times I have looked for them, I have not been
    able to find them. The jeans are ok, but tend to be too tight with
    the long-johns etc. 
    
     Smitty

    
      Green "Johnson Wool Pants" are the only way to go. Try trudging
    through some thick brush or christmas trees that have been soaked
    by a rain the previous night while wearing dungarees. You're going
    to be miserable in no time flat! I religiously wear Johnson "woolies"
    and even in 50 to 60 degree weather I find them to be pretty comfort-
    able to wear. I just have to open up the coat and shirt a little
    to allow for some ventilation. The beauty of wool is that it'll
    repel water for a while, but that when it does get wet, it's still
    warm!
    
      Wool is the way to go for every article of Hunting outer clothing...
    
    
    Joe

    
    re .6.
    
    Jeans are the worst thing you could were. They absord water and
    hold it, thus pulling your body heat out of you. This invites 
    hypothermia.
    
    Wool is the best thing in the world to wear, even wet. 
    
    Personally I wear a pair of long johns, then a pair of sweat pants.
    Over this I wear a pair of courderoys (sp??) if cold and then my
    hunting pants which are 50% wool and 50% cotton.  100% wool would
    be better ( ie. warmer, quieter etc.) but also more expensive.
    A pair of all wool pants is fairly expensive and not the easiest
    thing to find. If I come across some when I have the money, I will
    get them. The only reason I have what I have is it was a christmas
    present from my parents.
    
    Wool is also better than anything else for quietness. Have you ever
    listened as a twig pulled across your jeans, you can hear it so
    you bet the deer can, with wool there is no noise.
    
    Go with the wool
    
    --Bob

    I wear 100% wool Bibs, now. I got a pair a wool bibs just before deer
    season started this year. Had the wife put zippers in the legs so
    they would be easy to get off with my boots on, (and I don't have
    to strip in the woods :-) )
    
    They are great in the cold Rocky Mountain mornings, but tend to
    really warm you up when your hoofing it up mountains. If your going
    to do alot of walking, as opposed to still hunting, there is no
    need to wear extra pants, just these bibs and long handles.
    
    Before this year I wore a pair of canvas pants. These are nice too,
    but are noisy in the woods. They will allow you to sit in the biggest
    snow drift you can find and stay dry.

    	I just had a thought while I was reading about wool clothing
    and the cost of it. When I was in high school (that was,,,,wow!
    30 years ago) I had some army surplus dress woolen pants of second
    world war vintage. They were great,,warm,as others have said,
    even when they were wet.  I wonder if there are any of these still
    around in surplus stores. Surplus City in Colorado Springs has a
    lot of real old stuff,,I think I'll check for woolies next time
    I go there. This could be a good source.
    
    	George
    

    	The Army/Navy store in Raymond, N.H. has some surplus British
    survival pants (I think that's what they said they were). They are
    wool and have lots of pockets. I think they're only about $20 too.
    The only problem is the color. They are light brown which is probably 
    not what you'd want to wear while deer hunting. However they are
    just the right color for late season duck hunting and color doesn't
    matter if you want to wear them ice fishing or snowmobiling.
    
    RAYJ

    re .10
    
    Surplus City and Glens Army Surplus both have a good selection of
    wool pants.  I picked some up at Surplus City this past weekend.
    Price?  $16.95, sounded like a deal to me.
    
    Mark

    RER. 10, 11, 12
     With all the talk about Surplus Wool pants I'll through my nickel
    worth in.... the $20.00 Germen Surplus pants with all the pockets
    were great all-round hunting gear through N.H., Maine, and Mass
    seasons but stacked up against 'Johnson' (1st) or Woolrich (2nd)
    lacked strength of fiber,(green wood blow dowms punctured pantlegs)
    and reduced weight of wool seemed to make for colder mornings. i
    also used long johns and jogging pants. The thing I really liked
    about the German pants were all the pockets... the need for carrying
    a back pack was gone.  I"m one of these "old Ridge Runners" after
    the same !!!! and not having that pack tended to give me at least
    two miles extra a day....
       My concussion is to have the wife rework my new Johnson pants
    with large thigh pockets.... the german's lost the battle but the
    war is another story..  I'll keep them for backups next year, and
    since the cost is half than of Jonhsons, they may be of interest
    to other. 
      

    I use Army surplus woolies over long johns in the winter.  If it
    gets below 10 degrees I throw on a pair of field pants with wool
    liners over the woolies and a parka with Micky Mouse boots.  That
    keeps me warm down to about 15 below.  If it gets colder still I 
    get my butt inside or I stop and build a fire.  
           
    I use regular gloves for temps down to about 25 or 20 degrees and
    then 3 fingered mittens for temps colder than that.
    
    I really like the Micky Mouse boots (the kind with the air valve)
    for winter wear.  I don't care if they're heavy, I'd rather be somewhat
    tired at the end of the day than have frostbite.  My feet have poor
    circulation and I need the protection.  Anyway that's what I use.
    
    Rich
        

    	Wool???? makes me itch till I go mad, if I put longies under
    them to stop the itch then I get hot as hell.
    
    	I use longies under military stile pants, the ones with the
    thigh pockets.
    
    	CREEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKK says the box!!! hmmmmm sounds like the old
    what's the best rifle for deer syndrome!!!
    
    	I treat my pants with Scotch Guard (sp??) to ward off the wet
    from the under brush. I wear loose longies under them and have no
    trouble staying dry/warm.
    
    	I find that jeans are to tight so even with longies under them
    when I take a stand (I like to sit on stand??) the jeans tighten
    on the thighes and knees. This pushes out the air in the longies
    thus destroying the insulation factor.
    
    	With the combat pants this doesn't happen as they are loose.
    
    	I hunt Mass and the norhteast in general so my cloths may not
    be right for the folks in the land of the setting sun and may be
    right for others in rising sun part of the country. They're right
    for me. Loose and layred is the best rule for hunting clothes.
    
    	Steve. 
                                                             

    	Someone mentioned gloves/mittens,,I just bought some shooting
    gloves/mittens,and they are great. They're wool,and made like gloves
    with no finger tips. They also have a sort of half mitten that folds
    back and attached to the back of the hand with velcro when you don't
    want to use the mitten part. The palms have soft leather stitched
    in for a better grip.  They're very good for shooting,but I find
    that they work just a well working around the barn,or whatever.
    You can keep your fingers warm as with mittens,but can get the use
    of your fingers quickly without freezing the rest of your hands.
    The only problem I;ve found is that when it's very cold AND windy,
    the wind does get through them.
    
    	George
    

    If I can go back to boots for a minute, this year I tried a pair
    of boots with rubber soles, leather uppers, and removeable thinsulate
    liners.  The biggest problem I'd had in the past was keeping my
    boots dry.  If it's warm my feet sweat, if I'm bird hunting I always
    go in over the tops of my boots at least once.  My old boots were
    OK if I had plenty of time for them to dry out between hunts, but
    a real pain if I was hunting every day.  The new boots have been
    great.  They are lighter than packs with the wool liners and I can
    change to a spare liner for the next day.
    
    For gloves, I use a polypropolene (sp?) thin 'liner' on my shooting
    hand for all but the coldest weather, and have been very comfortable
    with that.
    
    Mark
    

    	For duck hunting I have a pair of the 16" molded rubber boots.
    These seem to be much better than regular boots that you wind up
    taking in water from the top. At about $10 a pair, you can buy one
    pair that fits (for warm days) and one pair a size larger for putting
    liners in. 
    
    RAYJ

         The boots I use are Browning Explorers. They have leather bottoms
    and a cordura uppers. They are insulated with thinsulate and have
    a gortex sock sewn in. Although the leather gets wet the gortex
    sock keeps your feet dry. the boot are fairly light. I have used
    them for deer hunting both in NH and MA this year and found them
    to be very warm while only wearing nylon ski socks in them. These
    are the best boots I've ever had.
         I really don't like the pak boots as it seems my feet are always
    slipping to the toe when walking downhill and sliding to the heal
    when walking uphill. I just havn't found a pair of paks to be good
    for hunting. I do wear them (pak boots) when ice fishing. 
        As for as pants go I usually wear Johnson wool pants. They are
    not to expensive about 30 dollars a pair and are about 85% wool.
    Wool pants are the best for any cold weather hunting.....
    
    sjn
    

    	This is also posted in the fishing notes. Does anyone have any
    experience with using skin divers gloves for cold wet weather. I
    primarily want them for ice fishing but I figured I'd ask here as
    well. 
    
    RAYJ

    Re:.20
    
           I doubt very much that they would work, as the gloves, like
    a wet suit work on a layer of water that fills the gloves, and suit
    when you first enter the water. If you tried this, in the open air,
    I tend to think, things would tend to freeze. Just my opion

    As a diver in Vermont cold weather diving is all there is.  I use
    1/4" neoprene, 3 fingered gloves.  They are very warm under water,
    with water temp. about 34 degrees F.  The whole idea behind the
    wetsuit, as suggested in .21, is to provide a thin layer of water
    between the body and insulation (neoprene).  If that layer of water
    evaporates, or during evaporation the body feels very cool, I would
    imagine in the winter it would be dreadfully cold.  If you were
    to keep the mits generally dry they probably wouldn't be that bad.
    But then 1/4" neoprene gloves aren't very pliable, and there are
    much better products on the market for hand warmth.  Maybe a thin
    (1/8") neoprene insert into some type of shell would be more practical.
    I think Gore-Tex and combination hollofill/thinsulate makes the
    best glove....just my observations.
    
    Kevin

    	I probably should have been more specific. This is for smelt
    fishing. For any other type, the gore-tex/thinsulate gloves I have
    are fine. The difference is, in smelt fishing the bites at times
    come so fast that you'll be bringing in another fish before you can
    wipe your hands off from the last one and get your gloves on. You
    need to be able to remove the hook and re-bait without having to
    remove the gloves. Gore-tex/thinsulate gloves are to bulky for this.
  	I think I'm going to see if I can find poly-propelene glove
    liners (i.e. something very thin but warm) with rubber gloves over
    them. The rubber gloves alone are every bit as cold as bare hands
    as I already tried this. 

    RAYJ

    You can give it a try with the SCUBA gloves.  It may work.  Neoprene
    has a closed cell design and as such would have some insulation
    capability.  It works better when you habe a full suit on and are
    diving because the entire suit forms a closed (for the most part)
    shell around your body.  Once the water leaks in and is warmed up
    it then stays put and adds to the insulation.  Too, warm water from
    the leg area (where the most heat is generated) works its way to
    other areas simply from the action of swimming. 
    
    So while the diving gloves may not be the best insulator for ice
    fishing, it may be better than none.  At least you won't have to
    worry about getting your hands wet.
    
    Rich

    
    ray try a pair of latex gloves, they fit like a second skin.  your
    hands never get wet.  they are only a few mil. thick so will fit
    under any glove.  they can usually found in painting supply stores.
    
    regards...john

    I have a pair of Damart glove liners in brown which are GREAT.
    I wear them for bow season, gun, and work. Not terribly rugged,
    but warm as toast. DON'T dry them on heat, tho'.
    
    With a tab for archery, no problem shooting. Ditto trigger feel.
    
    Dana

    	Don't heat dry any DAMART products unless you have a 
    	toddler you want to hand down clothes to.

    re:25
    	I tried Playtex gloves. Although they keep your hands dry they
    are definetly not warm. In this case keeping dry is not half the
    battle.
    	I think the ticket will be the Damart liners with latex gloves
    over them. They should wind up dry yet sensitive enough to rebait
    a hook.
    
    	RAYJ

    FYI:

    Stopped off at K-Mart in Nashua, NH. yesterday. Seems that they have
    Winchester jackets, pants and overalls at a real good price. I picked
    up a orange cammo overall for $59.95

    They still have a couple left.

    Richard

    Hi all,
    
    Just in case anyone is interested, I received some info I sent away for
    from a company called "Sleeping Indian"  They make what looks to be
    some of the warmest hunting clothing around, however rather pricey.
    
    Has anyone tried this stuff and/or is anyone interested enough to want
    the address?
    
    Christine (who asked if they made a fleece lined bra and got laughed
    at)

    Christine,
    
    	Welcome, it's good to see active woman hunters. I just recieved
    	the new Gander Mountain catalog and they have a section
    	with hunting cloths ( camo's etc ) designed for women
    	only.
    
    	Red - Waiting for Oct. 24th, Ga. rifle season

    Red -
    
    I know - we just got our issue recently too.  At least its a start. 
    I'm having a real problem in the boot area though.....
    
    If anyone is interested, we received a catalog from a company we never
    heard of before (hunting gear etc...) and some of the prices were lower
    than Gander Mtn., we called Gander and they matched the price.... I
    love good customer service!!
    
    Christine

    Re 32
    
    	Hunting Gear etc. ? Is this the name of the Co. ? Do you
    	have an 800 number for their catalog ? Heck, what's one
    	catalog ? 
    
    	Thanks,
    
    	Red
    
    	P.S Problems in the boot area
    
    	Christien, try looking at boys boots if you have small
    	feet. My wife has small one's and she usually ends
    	up finding boy's that fit, and their usually cheaper.

    Red -
    
    Hey - that's a good idea... Never even crossed my mind, I'll check it
    out when I get home.
    
    The name of the catalog I think is called "The Sportsmans Guide"  I'll
    have to double check when I get home though.  We had never even heard
    of it before.  I think it comes out of Minnesota or thereabouts.  They
    had some good deals on boots (i.e. Hubby wears Proline stalker boots,
    and this catalog had them for $27.99 and Gander had the same thing
    listed for $39.99, but Gander did honor the lower price)   and some
    decent deals on Camo. 
    
    I'll post the number tomarrow.
    
    Christine

    Red,
    
    In reference to clothing, "mommy" says I get to buy new cammos this 
    year!  goodie goodie gumdrops!
    
    3 new sets of cammos: bow hunting, early firearm, late season.
    i am a good boy!
    
    bob
    

    Red,
    
    I just got back from a hunting store in Cumming, to get some bowhunting
    accessories, and they have cammo up to 4x.  And if he doesn't have it,
    he can order it.  He also has some really neat cammo patterns.
    
    The name of the place is "Outback Hunting & Fishing".  Next time
    I go, I will let you know.  I will check out prices at the Buckarama,
    and if there is not a good deal, I will order from Outback.
    
    
    bob
    

    Red (and anyone else that's interested...)
    
    I found the catalog.  It's called "The Sportsman's Guide" It's put out
    by a guy named Gary Olsen out of Eagan Minnesota.  The 24 hr. toll free
    number is 1-800-888-3006.
    
    They are having a sale on now until July 31st.  I've never heard of
    them before, but they say they have an "iron clad guarantee" and that
    this guy has field tested personally everything in the catalog.
    
    Christine

    fyi,
    
    I just called the 800 number, and a very personable lady answered the
    phone and took my info.  She is mailing me the catalog.  Red, if you
    want to look at it, I will bring it into work soon as I get it.  I will
    be able to make my order in on time.
    
    Thanks Christine.
    bob
    

    
    
    I've been getting the Sportsman guide for a couple years now...it's a
    good publication filled with interesting items. I think you'll like
    it....
    
    
    			jim s.

    Hey Red, and whomever besides myself is a BIG person, I just ordered
    through BASS PRO Shops my hunting clothes.  They were the ONLY people
    I could find that sold insulated Realtree coveralls in my size.  fyi
    my size is 3x tall in coveralls.  I am a 2x in reality, but I like to
    dress in layers underneath.  Cabelas and Gander mountain went only to
    2x.  My cost was only $84 dollars.  Also, ask about there daily phone
    specials.  I got a realtree reversible blaze orange cloth vest for only
    $26.  Here in all the stores those go from $32 to $36.  
    
    
    Thumbs up for Bass Pro.
    
    Bob
    

    Talk about customer service.  HEY DIGITAL, PAY ATTENTION AND LEARN
    SOMETHING!  
    
    I placed an order on 8-23 and it was sitting on my front steps on 8-26.
    Of course it wasn't through PCBYDEC, it was through Bass Pro.  And a 
    complete order at that.  Getting to clothing though, the cammos fit
    just perfect.  I am a happy camper.  Two thumbs up for Bass pro.
    
    bob
    

    yeah, I called BP on Monday, and my stuff got to me today!

    Have any of you western hunters seen the new "Konifer" camo?  I
    order a pair of overalls from Cabela's.  Great stuff for hunting
    in pine forests!  Should blend right in and get the jump on the
    deer this bow season.  The stuff is made from Worsterlon fabric,
    which is heavy weight and is suppose to have the properties of wool
    with the durabilities of synthetics.  Should hold up pretty well
    going through those lodge pole pine stands.
    
    JoeJ
     

    I, like many others in the previous replies, use green wool pants and 
    'longjohns' (duofolds) and when it's realy cold, sweatpants in between.
    And, on top, duofolds and a wool coat, with a few other layers in
    between depending on how cold it is.
    
    I can put on enough layers this way to keep me fairly warm even while  
    sitting in a treestand for 2-3 hours when it's really cold.
    
    However when dressed for real cold weather this way, when it comes to 
    getting TO my treestand (and possibly having to set it up) or while 
    scouting or still hunting later in the day when the sun has brought the 
    temp up 20 degrees, I tend to overheat.  This is especially bad while
    getting to the stand, because obviously if you sweat much before
    sitting in the cold, the dampness draws the heat right out of you. 
    
    There are a number of hightech long underwear fabrics available that 
    should solve this problem (polypropylene, thermax, thermastat, etc). 
    They're designed to keep you warm enough to not need as many layers,
    plus draw the moisture away from your skin to help keep you dry - and
    keeping dry helps keep you warm. 
    
    I'm sure they all wick moisture away well and work great for active
    sports, but I haven't heard much (besides advertising) about how well
    they actually work for plain insulation under condtions such as sitting
    in a treestand for many hours in the cold.
    
    Has anyone had much experience with any of these fabrics in 'stand'
    conditions? 
    
    -donmac

    In reference to perspiring go to the stand, dress light when walking
    to your stand, and then add the extra layers just prior to climbing.
    I use polypropolene.  But then in Georgia, it will get down only to the
    20's.  That word "only" was for Red, mr. big vermont frozen tundra
    hunter.
    
    
    bob
    

 I've got a polyprop shirt (patagonia) that my wife bought for me. If you
really want to stay warm, I think you have to use synthetic materials
closest to your skin (or silk). It really wicks away sweat well, and has
excellent insulating properties. Remember the relationship between insulating
ability and 'dead air space.' When you recognize that they can do just about
whatever they want with synthetic materials, it's pretty clear why things
like quallofill etc work; they can create the physical properties they
need to cause the insulating properties they want. The wicking action comes
virtually for free.

 The more I do outside, the more I appreciate the advances in synthetic 
materials. 

 I got a "worsterlon" shirt from Cabelas this year. It was around $40 and came
in a camo pattern. I love it. It dries much faster than cotton flannel or wool,
so it's real comfortable in changeable weather. It's a tough material, but it's
still a comfortable thing to wear.

 Had I known how good polypropylene (and other synthetics) were, I'd not have
bought the regular duofold thermals. I'd have gone directly to the synthetic.
What a difference in comfort (particularly for someone who tends to sweat
like me.) I'm sold on the stuff.

 The Doctah

    I've found that a good synthetic (I prefer Patagonia's Capilene)
    coupled with a wool shirt, pile jacket, and something windproof,
    are good in the cold. For the lower body, I use the Capilene,
    in a heavier weight, high wool socks, and a bib-style pant of
    fleece, Thinsulate, and Gore-Tex. If it's not so cold, light
    synthetic underwear combined with camo pants or green Johnson wool.
    I usually carry the shirt and/or fleece jacket to the stand, leaving 
    the other layer open for ventilation. I walk slowly to my stand, 
    prefering to arrive a bit later rather than sweating. If walking a 
    long way to the stand, I sometimes wear a lighter boot for walking,
    then switch to a heavy boot for standing. This keeps the heavy 
    boot from getting soaked from inside on the walk in. 
    
    The bottom line is an old one - stay dry, stay warm. 
    
    I avoid cotton in really cold weather, 

    A few weeks ago I asked about the new synthetics for insulation and 
    wicking factor while hunting.
    
    A couple of phone calls to Cabelas found me with a set of Thermastat
    long underwear and a fleece/dryplus/thinsulate camo coveralls. 
    
    I'm very pleased with this stuff.  I wear the thermastat under
    traditional wool pants and jacket, and the coveralls on top of
    the wool while in the treestand. 
    
    I spent the last 5 days in the woods, and a couple of te mornings found
    the NH temp in the teens.  Sitting in a tree for 3-4 hours in these
    condtions was challenging.  There was no way I would have lasted as
    long in the stand in just my wool.
    
    One morning (long before dawn) I couldn't locate my thermastat top and 
    used my old duofold top.  By mid-day after hiking around for awhile 
    I knew just how effective that thermastat was at keeping you dry. 
    And the coveralls have been great.
    
    good stuff
    
    -donmac