Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

                                   
         Linda,
         
         If you don't plan to breed your cocker spaniel, then
         absolutely have her spayed. 
                
         For two years I hesitated to spay my American water spaniel
         and we had a pretty rough time of it. During her heats she'd
         drip blood on the carpet and stare at the door with glazed
         eyes. And worse, she suffered through two false pregnancies.
         Tosca's nipples swelled and dripped milk and she once tore up
         the seat of an upholstered chair trying to make a nest. It
         was really quite sad and pathetic and I'm sorry I didn't spay
         her as soon as it was safe to do so. 
                                          
         After my experience, I feel that it's cruel to keep a female
         dog in this condition. 
         
         I think you can spay your dog as early as six months, but I'm
         not sure. Your vet is the best source for this question.
         
         In addition to your dog's welfare, think of yourself.
         Protecting a bitch in heat is a nuisance. Her scent will draw
         male dogs who will be determined to mate. You wont be able to
         let her hunt or run free in areas where you might encounter
         another dog. You'll also have to carefully watch for the
         beginning of the heat so you'll know when to change your
         habits. And of course you'll have to deal with the blood and
         the possibilities of false pregnancy and infection. 
                                       
         I never noticed any change in the way Tosca hunted after
         being spayed. As far as personality, spaying doesn't bring
         about any negative changes. In fact, spayed dogs sometimes
         become more affectionate and attached to their owners. 
                                                                      
         You should beware of the many falsehoods like weight gain
         that surround spaying. If you get the facts from your vet
         you'll find that there's no choice but to spay.
         
         As far as I know, the only competition that excludes spayed
         dogs is the show ring. 
         
         If you don't get enough information in this conference, I
         suggest you post a note in CANINE::CANINE. 
                                                             
         Good luck with your new pup,
         
         Doug 

    I agree with everything Doug said in the previous reply.
           
    A recent issue of GUN DOG had a short piece about this in the Vet's
    column.
    
    I've noticed only good side effects from having my spaniel spayed.
    
    Bill

    I had my dog neutered at 3 years and two litters later. She works
    the same now as she did then. She got a little over weight but that's
    about it, and that's a owner problem not the dogs.
    
    I thought spayed dogs where excluded from all trails. I know they're
    out of the show ring.

    6 months would be the earliest youwould want to do it. Just before
    her first heat.
    
    It can be a real bummer when she comes in heat just as bird season
    starts. My Brit did that two years in a row and it's real hard to
    leave her at home, she likes them birds.
    
    Good luck,
    Mark
    
    ps. we only had small litters, 1 pup the first and 2 the second.
        

    	I think trials may exclude neutered dogs, since like shows
    	they are used to evaluate breeding stock.  But since the 
    	hunting tests are not competitive but scored, they may be 
    	different.  I know you can show a spayed dog in AKC obedience 
    	trials.  Does anyone know for certain?
      	  Linda

    
     I'm not sure if altered dogs can or cannot compete in Field Trials.
    The purpose of field trials or bench competitions is to improve
    the breed, so does it make sense to trial a neutered dog ? To be
    competitive in trials, you must first have a well bred dog, put
    endless hours into caring and training for the dog and lots of
    expenses for hotels,meals,travel, and entry fees. Just something
    to consider !
     I have seen several working spayed bitches. This means that these
    dogs were well exercised, and much care was given to their diet.
    I would say that 4 out of every five of these dogs had over-weight 
    problems. I am still told that spaying does not cause the problem,
    but I'm not convinced and neither were these dog's owners. I think
    that some dogs are effected and some are not and that one cannot
    just generalize and say it causes or does not cause a weight problem.
    If you do get an over-weight problem, it could get to the point
    where the dog's weight effects it's performance in the field. I
    think that weight gain after spaying is more than a whim ! 
     Now for hunters that have their dog fixed, they can benefit in
    some of the other areas mentioned such as having the neighborhood
    dogs on their door step when their bitch is in season, or missing
    3 weeks of a 4 week season on birds. There are other methods of
    dealing with these problems without neutering a dog. I think that
    each owner must look at their own situation, consider the risks,
    benefits, and the down sides and decide for themselves.
    
    pat.
    
     
    
    

  	I have a big male weimaraner (Krypto) who was neutered at
    two years old, because of canine epilepsy, for the obvious reason.
   He was a frantic animal before and a loveable wimp afterwards. BUT,
   you should see him in the woods now! A 30 in. 80 Lb. ballet dancer
    no less. 
    	I hunt thick cover for Doodles and grouse and hunting them there
    with a MACK TRUCK is a no-no. Krypto tippy-toes around,over,through
    and under, so quietly, and all within 25 yards of the business end
    of my 20 ga.
    	I have a (hope to ba dual field champion) Shorthair and she
    can't get me nearly the shots that Krypto can. Even though I am
    sure she has a BETTER nose.  With both of them in relatively light
    cover she'll be on point first 80% of the time.
    	I've been told that neutering does something akin to the hearing
    skill improvement of sightless people. I am skeptical but seem to
    have an example. So for what it's worth.....
    
    				
 				SEASON'S CLOSED BUT I'M STILL HUNTING...
    					
    						JACK
    

    i had my GSHP spayed  at six months.  she is now 2+ years old and
    can out run anything on the block.  she is as gentle as a lamb with
    the baby.  she has food(eukanuba) in her bowl at all and is not
    a pound over weight.  my personal opinion is that if you don't plan
    to breed her spay her as early as the vet will allow.  raising puppies
    is alot of work!  you will not make money from raising puppies in
    your home!  if you love your pet i think you'll be very upset when
    she goes in to heat for the first time, their hormones put them
    through hell.  i agree with .1 and can only add that dogs in heat
    are much more likely to be hit  by cars.  i would also add that
    oweners of male dogs should also consider neutering if they do not
    wish to breed.  80% of male dog behavioral problems are related
    to reproductive hormones.
    
    use them or lose them!
    
    
    regards...john

    My cocker (Murphy) is getting a Chistmas present. He gets to keep
    his for one more month!
    
    Do I understand you can use a cocker for birds? I thought that they
    were too short (read: would get stuck in the grass). I'd love to
    take Murphy in the field.
    
    Richard

    	re .8 See the note about our dogs and I will talk about Freda,
    	my Cocker.  She actually has an easier time going through heavy
    	stuff than a big dog would I think, because she can crawl under
    	it or thru small openings.
    	  Thanks everybody for the inputs on neutering.
    	   Linda

    Regarding the previous notes on Spaying /Neutering.  I have done volunteer
    work with a group in Ottawa (Canada) which took care of stray and
    abused dogs (and Cats).  The majority of the strays were puppies
    which were dumped by people who hadn't had there bitch spayed. 
    I can't speak for the States, but in Canada, almost every major city
    has a Spay/Neuter clinic which will perform the operation for a
    nominal fee (often based on the persons ability to pay).  I feel
    that is one good reason to have your animal spayed.  Other good
    reasons are often covered up by misperceptions.  An example
    would be that spaying does not cause weight gain.  We normally see
    a tummy on  bitch who has been spayed due to the muscles which are
    stretched by the operation.  My Vet told me that the chances of
    a Female getting Cervical cancer are reduced 100% after being spayed!
    
    I would also like to add that I have two German Shorthairs (both
    Bitches-2 yrs) which are perfectly healthy, highly energetic and are at
    their ideal weight.                         
    
    Duncan